Stern announces NBA dress code

tim duncan is no gang-banger, he dresses nicer than most of the people who work with me at a software development company. even the ceo here dresses below stern's code.

it's old people who think dress affects behavior. it might for old people, but not everybody else. my mother told me once they had to stop having casual dress friday at her work because people acted too casual. i told her they should have casual dress everyday, stop treating it special, then make people do their jobs or fire them.
 
KingKong said:
Sorry but it's sociatal BS. People have been so brainwashed by society since the beginning of civilization that it's second nature. We are born into this world naked, not with suits on. In what we call "prehistory" (I'm not sure why we call it that, since it is also part of our history), before civilization, humans weren't wearing suits back then either, maybe some animal skin. Why should what you wear have any effect how you are as a person or how "professional" you may seem? Why should anybody be told how to dress even if it is a desk job. As long as you are professional in your work and get the job done, that is what matters. NBA players do get a lot of money, but so do the Rolling Stones. People should be allowed to dress the way they feel, the way they want to express themselves, not because of some ridiculous code. Sorry but I feel very strongly about this subject.

I'm with ya KK and that all I'm gonna say otherwise I'll get myself all worked up
 
One thing that this new rule will uncover is the amount of players who cannot dress themselves... :shakes head:

There really are just a handful of guys in the NBA who know how to put a suit and tie on and make it look good...the rest have no clue...

We're gonna be seeing a lot of half-***'d attempts... :shakes head once again:
 
Dave McNulla said:
tim duncan is no gang-banger, he dresses nicer than most of the people who work with me at a software development company. even the ceo here dresses below stern's code.

it's old people who think dress affects behavior. it might for old people, but not everybody else. my mother told me once they had to stop having casual dress friday at her work because people acted too casual. i told her they should have casual dress everyday, stop treating it special, then make people do their jobs or fire them.


Well since Im appearently "old" at 30, Anybody seen my Walker?
 
Dave McNulla said:
tim duncan is no gang-banger, he dresses nicer than most of the people who work with me at a software development company. even the ceo here dresses below stern's code.

it's old people who think dress affects behavior. it might for old people, but not everybody else. my mother told me once they had to stop having casual dress friday at her work because people acted too casual. i told her they should have casual dress everyday, stop treating it special, then make people do their jobs or fire them.

I just started to notice last season the prevalence of street attire at games (complete with the blingy stuff). I think Stern wants to put the kaibosh on that before 90% of the league is doing it. If you go back to the early 90s, the suave suit was the norm, even with youngsters. They wanted to look like they had money to burn. Now, the styles have changed to where street clothes, gold chains dripping with diamonds, and 10 inch watch faces are what designate both wealth and "street cred". As a result, the new flock of players look younger and more brash than ever before. That tends to turn off many mid-aged white ticket buyers.
 
VF21 said:
Whoa. Iverson simply doesn't get it IMHO. Having people dress in suits sends a bad message to kids?

Oh, that is so rich, especially conisdering the types of messages AI has sent to kids over the years.

His last comment, however, is the clincher. Yeah, I'm sure seeing lots of Japanese dressed as NBA thug wannabes is a real turn-on.

Good lord.

I agree that Iverson is one to talk about sending out bad messages to kids, his actions offcourt tell a different story, but his statement is quite right in that we as humans tend to judge people on their appearences rather than actual fact, it's stereotyping. Now most people in the world will never know what AI is really all about and therefore opinions will always be formed, but people shouldn't be judged on how they dress or if the talk a certain way. They can be judged on their actions or what thay may have said, but do we really want our kids to think that all people who wear baggy pants or bling bling are bad people because that is the meassage that is getting sent out. And by the way this coming from a person who loves to dress up and wear suits, but not to keep up an image but because I look that good.
 
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KingKong - I will endeavor to explain MY position one last time, but then I'm not going to argue because you and I are coming from totally different ends of the spectrum.

This is a dress code mandated by AN EMPLOYER and agreed to by the UNION. It is as legitimate as saying burger cooks have to wear shirts that match, etc. It is the choice of the EMPLOYER as a condition of employment. If the players don't want to follow it, they don't have to - but they will have to pay a fine for refusing to go along with part of their contract.

I think you're making WAY too much out of it. It's not like they have to wear a suit and tie from the moment they get up in the morning to the second they go to bed at night. They don't have to adhere to the dress code when they're out in public as private individuals. What Stern is demanding is that when they are representing the teams and the NBA, that players will have to be a little more consistent in their appearance. It says coats and no jeans. That's not exactly white pajamas with black stripes.

The message being sent out is that if you work for an employer, you might have to curtail your own personal tastes. That's just life.

Do we really want our kids to think that all people who wear baggy pants or bling bling are bad? Well of course not.

But that message isn't being sent out. It's being touted but the only message being sent is that people who makes millions of dollars working for someone else just might have to bend their sartorial preferences while they're on the job.

If the poor pampered little athletes can't accept that, then they shouldn't be accepting all the perks, etc.

You can't have it both ways. If you're gonna enjoy the ride, you have to be willing to pay for the seat.
 
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Your right that we are coming from two different spectrums, I suppose I'm getting into the philosophy of it all and questioning the actual motives of the employer. If Stern wants people to dress more uniformly, certainly that is his prerogative and the players will have to follow suit or they are out of a job. if his motives in doing so is to clean up the "bad image" of the NBA, then I think he going about it the wrong way, but that's not for me to choose.
 
thesanityannex said:
And this is a bad thing?

For Stern it is. I think this is the genesis of his decision to tidy things up. When he sees the players, he sees Rucker Park and MTV. Then he realizes that the primary clientel who actually spend dollars (majority of the tickets, merchandising for their children, and expensive TV game packages) probably feel the same way he does.
 
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The temptation to mix discussion of societal norms with good business sense is overwhelming, especially in a situation as charged as the NBA.

But, bottom line? The NBA is a business. They want to make a profit. They MUST make a profit to keep in business. For various reasons, the NBA has taken some pretty bad hits lately. (The brawl, Kobe, various criminal reports, etc.)

The perception among at least some casual spectators is that the NBA is composed of nothing but thugs. If this can be mitigated, even in part, by having the players dress a tad more mainstream, then I think it's pretty much a no-brainer.

Granted, there are a lot of other issues at work, but the casual fan doesn't know about them and most likely doesn't care.

If someone is thinking about shelling out $200-$300 for an evening's entertainment for their family, they're not going to do it if they're concerned about a possible negative image or poor role-models for their children (and yes, parents do still think about things like that).

I think the eventual solution will lie somewhere in between baggy pants, bling and ridiculous posturing and the other extreme of coats and ties.
 
More than three full weeks remain until the start of the regular season yet we've already got a fresh wound of controversy set to get infected.

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Allen Iverson on dress code: 'I do want people to know that I do have a problem with it.' (Getty Images) NBA commissioner David Stern, who got nearly everything he wanted in terms of concessions from the players union in the recently signed collective bargaining agreement, plans to institute a dress code.

At a National Braille Press gala in Boston last week, Stern told the Boston Globe players will now be required to not only make more public appearances than they had in years past, but also abide by a new set of rules designed to make the league appear more professional.

Required: Sport coat, collared shirt, slacks. Out the window: Jeans, be they the baggiest Fubus or the tightest Wranglers.

"We're working on a job description," Stern was quoted as saying. "... The job is not only to go to practice and win games. The job is representing the NBA to all constituencies. Community relations. Public relations. Sponsor relations. ... Maybe we got spoiled by a generation of players who did these things as a matter of course, and as we got younger, we moved away from them. ...

"Sometimes I worry that our players' intensity can be misconstrued and their effort can be misconstrued. They are the most intense, the most dedicated. I think the younger base of our fans understand that, but perhaps, the mid-to-older aren't quite as attuned to it. We'd like to use our convening power to have people focus on this game and our great players, who they are and how they play, rather than their variance from some norm. ... Being neatly attired in a certain way, that's going to be our norm."

Translation: The older, company-owning, money-spending, endorsement-bestowing generation thinks the league is filled with punks. The NBA is going to have to adhere to a more professional atmosphere, as phony as it might appear.

It's quick to flip the race card in this matter.

The NBA really wants to crack down on bandanas and loud chains, no? Stephen Jackson's gold teeth are in jeopardy. Discussing this issue with boxer Shannon Briggs on a South Florida radio show the other day, he was quick to point out why Allen Iverson was so quick to tell the Philadelphia Daily News, "I really do have a problem with it. It's just not right. It's something I'll fight for."

Briggs' point was Iverson is essentially the embodiment of the hip-hop culture, which certainly doesn't wear sport coats. Children who look up to him are not going to buy someone they clearly know has been a certain way for his entire life participating in a farce. In it's simplest form, it's selling out.

Don't confuse this as a black-and-white issue, though. After all, Jason Williams and Mike Miller roll with the hip-hop lifestyle. Reigning MVP Steve Nash would no doubt prefer coming out in a rock T-shirt and jeans, while Brad Miller and Greg Ostertag, cowboys, are clearly not comfortable with dolling up for presentation's sake.

"I don't mind if they clean it up a little bit," Ostertag told the Deseret News. "But ... they can go without them (expletive) sport coats."

No, this isn't about race, but rather usurping one's free will.
 
....continued

Apparently, the league is OK with stepping back and allowing Eddy Curry to gamble with his life as long as he passes a few physical tests, simply because it's his prerogative to do so and New York's to employ him. But he had better hit the Big & Tall shop and get some new threads if he's planning on hanging around.

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Although the dress code has not been finalized or instituted, Iverson already has decided he'll go the insubordinate route in response, choosing fines over conforming. But what happens if repeated offenses merit suspension?

All of a sudden, taking a stand starts interfering with the on-court product, the driving force of the league in the first place. It puts Iverson in the pickle of weighing his responsibility to his teammates vs. standing by his beliefs.

"When I think I'm right, I stick with it," Iverson said. "I really want people to know that I do have a problem with it. It's not fair. Just because you put a guy in a tuxedo doesn't mean he's a good guy."

Undoubtedly, there will be others who cling to the belief, Stern one of them, that unless you're signing your own paychecks, you do as you're told. Period. It's rare that anyone can go into their employer's office and say, "I'm not doing what you're asking" without being shown the door.

"(The dress code) is a small thing that contributes to a sense of professionalism. ... We've always moved to the fashion of our players," Stern said. "Years ago, the fashion was a jacket and tie. Now, it's a much more casual approach. But our referees are always attired a certain way based upon their job description when they come into the building. Our coaches are attired a certain way when they come on the court. We decided that it was time (for the players)."

Stern has done wonders for basketball. He has globalized it, helped institute salary clauses that have made the league relatively balanced, and has ultimately made it one of the country's most-watched sports.

But in trying to tighten the reins on the direction of the game over the past few months, there have certainly been policies that have raised eyebrows. The age limit, on the week Michelle Wie turns pro before 16 and Sidney Crosby logs his first action at 18, immediately comes to mind.

Now come rumblings of a dress code. What's next? Mandatory curfews? Organized marriages?

"If you don't like this business, you can always go work somewhere else," Utah Jazz coach Jerry Sloan told the Deseret News. "We've got to try to sell this league any way we can, if it's a positive."

Not everyone thinks it's a positive, though. Frankly, it's an issue that has no bearing on what the sport is fundamentally about -- the basketball.

Instead, you've got guys debating what's acceptable as dressy-casual attire and what's not.

"It's totally unfair for some of these young guys who come in here on a partial deal to have to go out and spend money on (specific) clothes," Memphis' Eddie Jones told the Memphis Commercial Appeal. "A lot of guys need custom clothes, and that takes more than a couple of dollars. What's wrong with a kid wearing a pair of nice jeans -- no holes and not baggy -- a pair of nice shoes and a button-up shirt? What's wrong with that?"

Meanwhile, players union president Antonio Davis was telling USA Today, "you can't say no jeans. I've seen businessmen in jeans, a sports coat and nice shirt, and you say that's classy."

Do you care what Davis thinks is classy? Whether Damon Jones sports sunglasses at a press conference because he's a likeable clown? Does it honestly make you squeamish to see Iverson and Jermaine O'Neal popularize the do-rag? Ostertag a giant belt buckle?

How about we just let them play ball, rather than making the lot of them resort to the spirit of the '60s and '70s. Looks like million-dollar athletes actually can be repressed. Who knew? Iverson, Ostertag -- organize a sit-in. Fight the power.


it had some player quotes which i dont believe the original article had.
 
This "controversy" is unlikely to last even until the end of training camp, let alone longer. Much huffing and puffing and as usual posing, but its all talk. Might be able to get it loosened a bit to include jeans or lose the sportscoat, but that opens things up a lot. Probably too much for what they are trying to accomplish. "Casual Friday" professional standards I suspect. And please, no more complaining about the onerous burden of some of the richest men in the country having to own maybe 2 or 3 pairs of slacks and coats and maybe one pair of nice shoes. With the exception of the 10-day contract guys, there's not a one of these guys set to earn less than six figures from this gig, and the majority of them earn seven figures.


Another interesting subtext that becomes more obvious: The NBA is trying to use Allen Iverson to sell the NBA, while on the other hand Allen Iverson is trying to use the NBA to sell Allen Iverson. Since the money stream goes NBA ---> Allen Iverson, and without the NBA he has no stage, I suspect I know the outcome of that one.
 
ONEZERO said:
....continued

"Years ago, the fashion was a jacket and tie. Now, it's a much more casual approach. But our referees are always attired a certain way based upon their job description when they come into the building. Our coaches are attired a certain way when they come on the court. We decided that it was time (for the players)."
So are the players now going to be wearing a suit and tie when they take the court to play? Basketball players in jerseys must look too gangsta, a change must be made.
 
thesanityannex said:
So are the players now going to be wearing a suit and tie when they take the court to play? Basketball players in jerseys must look too gangsta, a change must be made.

I know this is deeply threatening to you, but nonetheless what is happenign is that the NBA's employees are now going to be asked to be "in uniform" whenever they are representing the NBA. Shocking as that may seem. Not at home. Not going to the store (if any of them actually go themselves). But when they come to work to represent the NBA, when they are earning millions of the NBA's dollars, they will be in "uniform", even if that uniform is just a fairly relaxed "dress nice" standard.

If you want to "fight the power" let the millionaires fare for themselves and go on a crusade for those poor fast food kids forced to wear a paper hat all day long.
 
You know what they say about assuming. It makes a donkey out of you and me. The reason I pointed this out:

"But our referees are always attired a certain way based upon their job description when they come into the building. Our coaches are attired a certain way when they come on the court."

was because it sounds as if Stern is referring to what coaches and refs wear as their "uniforms". To me, using this as a basis for his argument just didn't make a good point.

Like I said in a previous post, I think the dress code is utterly stupid and the players making millions will just have to deal with it. Simple as that. One of those times where you just have to swallow your pride and follow the rules, no matter how lame they may seem.
 
Ok, this is starting to pee me off. When you think of a proffesion such as salesperson, car salesperson, attorney, judge, congressmen, hotel and restaurant managers, etc....., u picture them in suits, or at least I do. When others, including myself picture nba players, we picture them as we've always seen them, whether that being a suit, or jersey, or whatever it may be. I just don't think its right. And no, I don't think the nba is bigger than its players. If the nba lost its players, the players could always find somewhere to play and make money. But where would the stupid commisioner go if the nba were to fold? Burger king?
 
If it's starting to pee you off, perhaps it's time to just step away.

For the record? The NBA is BIGGER than the individual players. Look at the number of players who don't make it every year. Just where do you think the players would play, especially for the kind of money they're making now?

Sometimes you have to know when to walk away from a fight. This is something the league feels very strongly about and it's not negotiable by a couple of hot-head players who think THEY are bigger than the game. If you notice, the VAST majority of players are not going to come out and defie their bosses. It's not a very smart thing to do...

The NBA won't fold if it fines AI for not wearing the required apparel. But AI could find himself out in the cold if he continues to try and make this about him.
 
I can understand completely where A.I. is coming from. All of his younger years struggling to make it out of the projects while being oppressed by "the man" only to finally make it and again be oppressed by "the man". Problem though is this time "the man" is cutting his checks. A.I. has made his point, he doesn't like it. Big deal, neither do I. If he wants his pay, its a suit for him today.
 
ONEZERO said:
Ok, this is starting to pee me off. When you think of a proffesion such as salesperson, car salesperson, attorney, judge, congressmen, hotel and restaurant managers, etc....., u picture them in suits, or at least I do. When others, including myself picture nba players, we picture them as we've always seen them, whether that being a suit, or jersey, or whatever it may be. I just don't think its right. And no, I don't think the nba is bigger than its players. If the nba lost its players, the players could always find somewhere to play and make money. But where would the stupid commisioner go if the nba were to fold? Burger king?

The "stupid commissioner" would do just fine, and likely parachute into one of the top law firms in New York as a partner earning nearly as much as he does now while his players were scattered around the world trying to scrape out a living in the Mogadishu leagues. Stern's the one who actually HAS qualifications to be successful in life, not the guy who had 6 periods of basket weaving to get through senior year of H.S. and then jumped straight into professional ball bouncing. You take away the NBA, and half of these guys are one serious injury from working at the car wash for minimum wage.

But in any case you're missing the point again -- the players are not just "players". That doesn't fly when you are being paid more than the President to bounce a ball. The players are ALSO salespeople. PR reps. If they were just players, NOTHING they did off the court would be of remote interest to the league. So long as they bounced that ball well. But as it is, they are far more. And with that privileged position comes responsibilities to show up to team functions, represent the league etc. And now to dress to represent the league, rather than dress to represent yourself. And yes, to represent the league well to people not in their private posses who can actually afford to buy the immensely expensive tickets that their ridiculous salaries demand. This isn't a charity where a bunch of dip**** athletes are OWED millions of dollars from the owners to go bounce a ball. Its a business. If the customers don't buy enough, then the employees are going to feel it.

P.S. A.I.'s not being noble. A.I.'s being a selfish little punk concerned that HIS image is going to be damaged. How can I play the rebel and sell A.I. if I have to wear nice clothes? Waaaahh! Cry me a river on your $20 mil of bling A.I..
 
Good comments, tsa...

I'd be able to feel a little more some of AI's pain if I didn't know what he's making a year.

AI made it out of the projects. That part of his life is over and done. He's made it to the big leagues. He's got his piece of the pie. His posing is ridiculous. He can either stick to his guns and pay a fine OR don the suit and make a charitable contribution of what the fine would have been to help the less fortunate left in the projects.
 
I think the players will find a way to pee of Stern anyways. They will wear some awful looking suits, I can see it now. Suits fashioned to have bandana print, camo suits, pink suits, suits with team logos all over them. A.I. should be able to find a way to make a dress suit ghetto, it only takes a little imagination.
 
This is a silly argument. Who ever heard about someone getting pissed off about having to wear $10,000 designer suits. Buy me one and I'll wear it everywhere. It's not like they have to wear a Mcdonalds uniform. Talk about egos... "No one can tell me what to do! I'm frickin Tony Montagna!" ... Whatever. AI is sure is lucky he can play basketball for a living, too bad he doesn't appreciate it enough to be a professional like the greats before him. Self-sacrifice isn't in this guys vocabulary, all Alan Iverson cares about is Allen Iverson, he'll never win a championship.
 
KP said:
Self-sacrifice isn't in this guys vocabulary, all Alan Iverson cares about is Allen Iverson, he'll never win a championship.
Self-sacrifice isn't in his vocabulary??? I've seen him throw his body around with no regard. His ego is what can't be sacrificed.
 
thesanityannex said:
Self-sacrifice isn't in his vocabulary??? I've seen him throw his body around with no regard. His ego is what can't be sacrificed.
The guy is smaller than me and faster than a speeding bullet playing in a game of giants what do you expect to happen. What I mean by self sacrificing is giving up some of your needs for the needs of your teamates. He doesn't ever help any of his teamates shine, he can't be self-sacrificing in the way of not making himself the center of attention. He would do anything HE wants whether it was detremental to his organization, or his teamates. "We talkin bout practice?" He won't sacrifice self, for the good of others. He isn't a leader, he's a joke.
 
KP said:
This is a silly argument. Who ever heard about someone getting pissed off about having to wear $10,000 designer suits.

Exactly.

If the Kings didn't walk out en masse over the purple and black checkerboard unis, no one should complain. (Not to mention the Mavs trash-bag ensembles.)

;)
 
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