Start Corliss at the 4?
- Thread starter SDKing
- Start date
Fools gold to try to start him -- cannot rebound, and cannot contend with top starting PFs. Better to let him come off the bench and give us punch there where he has an advantage as an awkward matchup then see Corliss vs. Duncan, Bosh, Dirk etc. on a nightly basis.
But at this point I no longer have any objection with him getting as mnay if not more minutes than the other two. At least he's semi-reliable. Semi. Remember just this last roadtrip he took a three game siesta. At least the effort is always there though.
But at this point I no longer have any objection with him getting as mnay if not more minutes than the other two. At least he's semi-reliable. Semi. Remember just this last roadtrip he took a three game siesta. At least the effort is always there though.
There are weaker problems than the 4 on this team right now. The 4 is the most mismanaged position on the team with no direction or stability. I'd attribute half the lack of effort and all the frustration at the 4 to this. You can see it on the faces. They just don't care, they are being jerked around more than any other position on the team ... and used the least.
Personally, the rotation needs to trim down. Corliss is a solid player, but he's not really good. He's a spark player. He's a TRUE bench player. Comes in with gusto.
The biggest problem at the 4 is Muss. We've got a good scorer who isn't used and is frustrated. A good rebounder/defender who is just frustrated and angry. We've got Corliss who is just as happy as can be to play one on one and not pass.
I'm more frustrated at the lack of system than I am the 4s or feel that they should be altered ONCE AGAIN.
Personally, the rotation needs to trim down. Corliss is a solid player, but he's not really good. He's a spark player. He's a TRUE bench player. Comes in with gusto.
The biggest problem at the 4 is Muss. We've got a good scorer who isn't used and is frustrated. A good rebounder/defender who is just frustrated and angry. We've got Corliss who is just as happy as can be to play one on one and not pass.
I'm more frustrated at the lack of system than I am the 4s or feel that they should be altered ONCE AGAIN.
Sorry, Roman, but your "good scorer" who isn't used and is frustrated is frustrating the hell out of me. His spin moves more often than not result in either a blocked shot or a turnover. He seems extremely reticient to pass the ball and he can't grab a rebound if it bounces off his head.
Corliss doesn't pass because he's playing more of a safety value role. If the perimeter shooters don't have a shot, they kick in to Corliss, who bangs inside and either gets the hook to fall or draws a foul. His production has been pretty impressive.
I like Shareef. I think he's a good guy and from what I've heard he's one of the real peacemakers when things get heated. BUT that doesn't make him right for the PF position. And he's not going to miraculously become better.
If you see frustration on their faces, oh well. Neither Kenny nor Shareef has done much consistently to garner any kind of confidence. The lack of effort is all on them. If they want the job so badly, then let them show the hustle and pride that Corliss shows.
And, having said that, I do not think Corliss should be starting at the 4. We need him to come off the bench and anchor the second squad.
Corliss doesn't pass because he's playing more of a safety value role. If the perimeter shooters don't have a shot, they kick in to Corliss, who bangs inside and either gets the hook to fall or draws a foul. His production has been pretty impressive.
I like Shareef. I think he's a good guy and from what I've heard he's one of the real peacemakers when things get heated. BUT that doesn't make him right for the PF position. And he's not going to miraculously become better.
If you see frustration on their faces, oh well. Neither Kenny nor Shareef has done much consistently to garner any kind of confidence. The lack of effort is all on them. If they want the job so badly, then let them show the hustle and pride that Corliss shows.
And, having said that, I do not think Corliss should be starting at the 4. We need him to come off the bench and anchor the second squad.
Oh. Yes, it's more often blocked than not, which is why he's shooting around 50% this year ... because it's blocked.
I'd be reticient to pass the ball too, considering the offense we run. Who knows if he'd see it again for the entire game.
It's obvious he isn't trying ... or if he is, he's subconsciously not in the game. A blind man can see it and only a half-way stupid person would question why. He's not even a part of the team. They don't pass to him often, the offense is me first and he's not even a factor on a crap-squad. I'd be out of the game too. (granted, it doesn't excuse the behavior)
The perimeter players ALWAYS have a shot in their eyes. In fact, I think that's half the reason we suck worse than any other team pound for pound with the talent we have.
Here's the real question: Why would they want the job?
The offense is geared to allow anyone under 6'7" to do whatever they want. No repercussions.
I certainly wouldn't want to waste my efforts for that. I'm not going to bang away and establish position to watch Kevin Martin dribble by and flop. I wouldn't ... and I wouldn't expect these guys to either.
If you can't see that the real heart of our problems begins with our leaders (Bibby/Artest) and spreads like cancer through the team ... then you're not looking. Our problems start on the perimeter and sink inward. We've got a bunch of jumpshooters that aren't really that great at getting good shots ... and they are selfish. To make matters worse, they play the worst defense on the squad (including being worse than Brad Miller). Worse, Artest rarely even plays defense for an entire game and we normally take cues from him.
If you took away the sheer volume of BS foul shots we get every game ... we'd be losing games by 30 rather than 10. We flop so much (as a team), I'm willing to bet that it's one of the only things Coach Muss (if I can call him coach) actually works on.
That's our problem. Not KT, SAR or Corliss. It's the fact that we've got no usage in the post. Whether you like it or not, SAR can score. He's unused. He's not a part of the offense or the team. His production is symptomatic of that. Are any of them worth building around? HECK NO! I'm just sick of the blame and problems centering around the PF slot ... when the PF slot is so out of the team it's a non-factor.
I'd be reticient to pass the ball too, considering the offense we run. Who knows if he'd see it again for the entire game.
It's obvious he isn't trying ... or if he is, he's subconsciously not in the game. A blind man can see it and only a half-way stupid person would question why. He's not even a part of the team. They don't pass to him often, the offense is me first and he's not even a factor on a crap-squad. I'd be out of the game too. (granted, it doesn't excuse the behavior)
The perimeter players ALWAYS have a shot in their eyes. In fact, I think that's half the reason we suck worse than any other team pound for pound with the talent we have.
Here's the real question: Why would they want the job?
The offense is geared to allow anyone under 6'7" to do whatever they want. No repercussions.
I certainly wouldn't want to waste my efforts for that. I'm not going to bang away and establish position to watch Kevin Martin dribble by and flop. I wouldn't ... and I wouldn't expect these guys to either.
If you can't see that the real heart of our problems begins with our leaders (Bibby/Artest) and spreads like cancer through the team ... then you're not looking. Our problems start on the perimeter and sink inward. We've got a bunch of jumpshooters that aren't really that great at getting good shots ... and they are selfish. To make matters worse, they play the worst defense on the squad (including being worse than Brad Miller). Worse, Artest rarely even plays defense for an entire game and we normally take cues from him.
If you took away the sheer volume of BS foul shots we get every game ... we'd be losing games by 30 rather than 10. We flop so much (as a team), I'm willing to bet that it's one of the only things Coach Muss (if I can call him coach) actually works on.
That's our problem. Not KT, SAR or Corliss. It's the fact that we've got no usage in the post. Whether you like it or not, SAR can score. He's unused. He's not a part of the offense or the team. His production is symptomatic of that. Are any of them worth building around? HECK NO! I'm just sick of the blame and problems centering around the PF slot ... when the PF slot is so out of the team it's a non-factor.
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Hehehehehe. It's never SAR's failing, is it?
It's always Martin flopping or Bibby hogging the ball or SAR COULD be great but he chooses not to, for some reason you seem to be able to tap into better than anyone else.
What about pride in his job? What about putting for effort for the millions of $$$ he's making?
I think you're doing - again - SAR a disservice because you're intimating that you know how he thinks and feels about what's going on right now.
We will never agree about this because even when people do give some credit to SAR, it's never enough in your eyes.
As far as his 50% shooting is concerned, that's twisting my comments. I said his SPIN MOVE is much less effective. Is that the only move he has from the post? I don't think so...
If he's obviously not trying, then shame on him.
It's always Martin flopping or Bibby hogging the ball or SAR COULD be great but he chooses not to, for some reason you seem to be able to tap into better than anyone else.
What about pride in his job? What about putting for effort for the millions of $$$ he's making?
I think you're doing - again - SAR a disservice because you're intimating that you know how he thinks and feels about what's going on right now.
We will never agree about this because even when people do give some credit to SAR, it's never enough in your eyes.
As far as his 50% shooting is concerned, that's twisting my comments. I said his SPIN MOVE is much less effective. Is that the only move he has from the post? I don't think so...
If he's obviously not trying, then shame on him.
When you touch the ball 4 times a night (maybe) in your comfort zone ... no, not really.
If you truly feel that he's a part of the offense, then shame on you.
No, SAR isn't great - I said he isn't the next best thing or build around him. He's a piece now. He's a guy that can get you 20PPG, but he's not a cornerstone or "the" piece.
But, if you think he's the issue and not a symptom ... then, yes, we'll disagree.
I used to make a very indecent salary in corporate America. Obscene really, but when I finally decided to leave was after months of self-hatred and underperformance (in my eyes). I went through the motions, nothing more, nothing less.
The amount of money I made never factored into my "job satisfaction" other than the initial bits. I was not happy with other things related to my job and decisions being made. I was unhappy. Despite the fact that I consider myself to have a strong work ethic, I found myself unable to really focus or put forth the same effort I once did.
I wouldn't expect it to be any different for an athlete.
Possibly. I'm guessing, right along with everyone else.
I don't see the effort. I don't see the spark or desire. He seems beaten. He seems like he's happy to sit on the bench rather than go out there with these guys.
And ... honestly ... if that's the case ... I wouldn't blame him. (why was I speaking like Captain Kirk?)
I agree. Shame on him.
But, also shame on this coach. Shame on this organization. Shame on a lot of things. I think SAR and his effort is an effect, not a cause.
If you truly feel that he's a part of the offense, then shame on you.
No, SAR isn't great - I said he isn't the next best thing or build around him. He's a piece now. He's a guy that can get you 20PPG, but he's not a cornerstone or "the" piece.
But, if you think he's the issue and not a symptom ... then, yes, we'll disagree.
I used to make a very indecent salary in corporate America. Obscene really, but when I finally decided to leave was after months of self-hatred and underperformance (in my eyes). I went through the motions, nothing more, nothing less.
The amount of money I made never factored into my "job satisfaction" other than the initial bits. I was not happy with other things related to my job and decisions being made. I was unhappy. Despite the fact that I consider myself to have a strong work ethic, I found myself unable to really focus or put forth the same effort I once did.
I wouldn't expect it to be any different for an athlete.
Possibly. I'm guessing, right along with everyone else.
I don't see the effort. I don't see the spark or desire. He seems beaten. He seems like he's happy to sit on the bench rather than go out there with these guys.
And ... honestly ... if that's the case ... I wouldn't blame him. (why was I speaking like Captain Kirk?)
I agree. Shame on him.
But, also shame on this coach. Shame on this organization. Shame on a lot of things. I think SAR and his effort is an effect, not a cause.
Ego and not all that offensively gifted.
Possibly. But, I wonder if Williamson had gotten the same amount of crap about being a loser whenever he's mentioned ... and not experiencing anything really positive in 11 years of basketball ... do you think he'd be the same?
But, I REALLY, REALLY don't want this to devolve into a SAR talk. I tend to do that, and I don't want to do that here.
"If you had a tenth of the heart of Ruettiger, you'd have made All-American by now! As it is, you just went from third team to the scout team!"
I couldn't resist.
This seems like the making of a chicken/egg argument. If SAR wanted to put the team on his back, I'm sure he'd get more looks & become a more focal part of the offense...which probably starts in practice.
I couldn't resist.
This seems like the making of a chicken/egg argument. If SAR wanted to put the team on his back, I'm sure he'd get more looks & become a more focal part of the offense...which probably starts in practice.
SAR and all of these older guys could be playing better. It is on all of them. Kings are where they are, and it is because of lack of passion and lousy coaching. It is kind of funny, any of these vets have a chance to step up and make a difference, and yet noone can consistantly step up.
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I actually think that Corliss would be the ideal guy to help a bunch of youngsters develop. He's got a good attitude, good leadership skills (from what I hear), and a ring. If we manage to go young, he would be the perfect guy to hang onto, in my opinion, even if he doesn't get many minutes.
Now if we could just unload a couple of veterans for raw kids who are all upside...
Now if we could just unload a couple of veterans for raw kids who are all upside...
I am in total and complete agreement. And a part of it has to be that he has retained the pride and the passion for the game. You can see it and you can feel it, even through the TV screen. He has a ring, he has a sixth-man award, he has the temperment to mentor the young guns - and help them learn that you can be a class act and still be a success in the NBA. And I'm awfully glad the Kings have him back.
Not a bad idea actually...
But Corliss ironically would be one of the few I would keep for similar reasons to the ones stated above. Good mentor type, locker room presence, professional with Sacto roots (from his previous stay). Has won big. Right type of vet to have with a group of kids. Can help them figure things out, stay out of the way, not pout once they surpass him, and not good enough himself to add many Ws to mess up your draft position. Might even willingly accept such a post just to wrap things up in his career and be part of the organization when he's done.
But Corliss ironically would be one of the few I would keep for similar reasons to the ones stated above. Good mentor type, locker room presence, professional with Sacto roots (from his previous stay). Has won big. Right type of vet to have with a group of kids. Can help them figure things out, stay out of the way, not pout once they surpass him, and not good enough himself to add many Ws to mess up your draft position. Might even willingly accept such a post just to wrap things up in his career and be part of the organization when he's done.