Spencer Hawes
- Thread starter Mike0476
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Vlade4GM
All-Star
Vlade is definitely a good comparison. Has got all the post moves, good fundamentals, a mid range j, and very good passing ability. Pretty good shot blocking ability despite not being that athletic. Needs to improve his rebounding and add some strength. I wouldn't be upset one bit if the kings ended up with him, I really hope teams overrate Hibbert and leave us with Hawes.
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Mike0476
Starter
I tried to access that web site but it was not connecting for me. Thanks for the link too.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Vlade is the better comparison.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
...which is why I say no matter who's the head coach next year, we should sign Vlade on as an assistant in charge of training big men.
Fear the Putin
Starter
that is how big men develop
with proper training
duncan became the player he is today because of david robinsons mentoring
bynum will be a stud is tremendously better than he was last year because of kareems training
Divac has incredible communication skills and if the kid has the urge to soak in all the thoughts, experience, suggestions, and training that vlade would give him then we would have a gift in our hands if hawes was drafted
but, the damn lakers have him unfortunately as some scout
with proper training
duncan became the player he is today because of david robinsons mentoring
bynum will be a stud is tremendously better than he was last year because of kareems training
Divac has incredible communication skills and if the kid has the urge to soak in all the thoughts, experience, suggestions, and training that vlade would give him then we would have a gift in our hands if hawes was drafted
but, the damn lakers have him unfortunately as some scout
No, he finished working for them last year, and has been working for a Spanish basketball team.
Hawes is probably a top 5 pick, but I don't see how you can say Hibbert isn't that good. He's taking his team to the sweet 16. He's great in the post, a great passer, a great shotblocker, and a great man to man defender. I like Hibbert a lot.
I take Brandan Wright or Al Horford over all of them.
BTW if CWebb wins a championship and retires does anyone else like the idea of asking HIM to be our assistant big man coach?
I don't see Chris Webber wanting to become an assistant coach for the Sacramento Kings. In fact, I'd be willing to bet big money he never goes into coaching.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I didn't say he wasn't good. I just don't think he has as much upside as Hawes.
rhythmless
Starter
i agree. chris webbers personality does not fit coaching very well. i dont see the patience and mentor savvy that it takes to be a coach. even looking back at our golden years, vlade was the player coach. he might not be as much as in impact player as webber was, but vlade had a way with the kids. webber has always been a lead by example type player.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Hawes is one of a couple of guys who scare me a bit in this draft. Not that I htink he will be a bust -- actually suspect he will be what people project him as, a multiskilled Vlade type player. But that he doesn't have that true upside potential to be a star. A starter, but maybe more like a Bogut in terms of impact. If you get that out of your #13 pick you have to be pretty happy. Out of #8, not bad although you should be looking around to see if there are any Amares or Dirks instead (one taken #9, the other #8). Taken at #5, in this draft, might almost be a disappointment. Vlade was a nice guy, but his talent wasn't going to swing a franchise. Scares me because Geoff has become fascinated with unathletic bigs with "basketball skills". Guys like Green and McRoberrts fall into the same rubric at lower levels.
Of course I've only seen him play for about 40 minutes total, so I could be way off.
Of course I've only seen him play for about 40 minutes total, so I could be way off.
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Vlade4GM
All-Star
Hawes is one of a couple of guys who scare me a bit in this draft. Not that I htink he will be a bust -- actually suspect he will be what people project him as, a multiskilled Vlade type player. But that he doesn't have that true upside potential to be a star. A starter, but maybe more like a Bogut in terms of impact. If you get that out of your #13 pick you have to be pretty happy. Out of #8, not bad although you should be looking around to see if there are any Amares or Dirks instead (one taken #9, the other #8). Taken at #5, in this draft, might almost be a disappointment. Vlade was a nice guy, but his talent wasn't going to swing a franchise. Scares me because Geoff has become fascinated with unathletic bigs with "basketball skills". Guys like Green and McRoberrts fall into the same rubric at lower levels.
Of course I've only seen him play for about 40 minutes total, so I could be way off.
So what are you saying? you'd rather have Yi Jianlian or Julian Wright?
While I think Hawes is properly compared to Divac, I don't think that's his ceiling.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Jianlian maybe. He's scary in a different way (i.e. bust potential) but the ceiling there is up there as a Tom Chambers type player just too fast/athletic for other 7-footers to stay with.
Julain Wright..no. Although I have to say he reminds me a lot of Gerald Wallace.
The key here is not to get stodgy with the pick. Not to play it safe and take the good player who will never be more. Because merely adding one good player isn't going to turn things for our team at this point, and its not too often you get a chance to draft a great one. But I haven't seen enough of Hawes to be sure he's not. The next step up on the Vlade scale is a guy like Brad Daugherty, and if he can be that, than you would have to be pretty happy even if that's still sub superstar level. But drafting a guy intentionally hoping for the sure 12pts 8rebs is not the way to spend a #5 pick (if that's where you are). Certainly not a #3 or whatever. You get that high you just have to take a shot at landing a great one. And maybe that's Hawes, and if we get him I will have hope. He's one of the guys everybosy is watching. But I'm far from sure, and I really wish that he would grad a rebound here and there.
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Vlade4GM
All-Star
Well other than Jianlian, I'm not seeing who you're looking for in the mid to late lottery. Other than Wright and Jianlian I don't think there's anyone who has got better upside than Hawes after the top 4. I wouldn't get carried away with the vlade comparisons, I don't think many scouts think that's what he's limited to, I've heard nbadraft.net compare him offensively to kevin mchale once so comparisons are very loose. I mean, Amare was being compared to Ben Wallace and he basically went in the opposite direction of that. I'm all for wanting a franchise changing player this draft, but if he's not there then he's not there. We might as well be getting a good complimentary player and then just try again in '08. Also, we don't know who's going to be declaring and who's not, like darrel arthur could declare and i think he would fit the bill you're looking for. I guess we could also try trading up with the bucks or bobcats for al horford. We can just make it easier on ourselves and win a top 3 pick on lottery day
Vlade4GM
All-Star
as regards to jianlian and wright. wright is like wallace athletically and defensively, but wright can handle and pass which wallace cannot do so i think his upside is much better than gerald wallace. as far as jianlian goes, I definitely see the comparisons skills wise to gasol and KG, but i've been watching him in the CBA finals and the guy just does not assert himself to the hype of him being the best player in China, he's picking up a lot of his points on fast breaks and free throws. He's getting pushed around by wang zhizhi and guys who would never even sniff the nba. His lack of strength is a real big problem for him. he is the epitome of high risk high reward.
That's kind of how I've been thinking, too. Skills can often be developed, as can strength, but I'm convinced that people who are freakishly athletic have some lucky genetic combinations going for them, and that, for the rest of us, no amount of determination or work ethic will ever completely compensate.
Add that to the fact that "athletic" is one of the last words that would come to mind when describing most of our vets, and I find myself very drawn to the idea of a super-athletic pick. Petrie has always leaned towards finesse over power, but I am hoping that he will see the void which needs to be filled. We lost most of the team's power in May 2003, and, despite the addition of a few athletic youngsters, have been losing ground ever since. So I don't dare expect it, but I will hope for it.
My slogan for this June: "No more Doubys."
rhythmless
Starter
with the size of jianlians frame, he really cant pack on too much muscle. playing as a pf, that will be an issue. both gasol and garnett are way tougher on the block. if he can gain 10-15 lbs of muslce, thats all you can really ask for. itll put him at around 7', 240, which is still lanky, but coupled with his speed, its not a bad person to leave at the 4.
ceilings for people that are athletically gifted are much higher than those that are fundamentally sound and not as talented physically just because there is so much to add to a base of pure athleticism. i agree that this draft, we gotta go for the gold. theres plenty of players that are gonna be starters in this league. we need a star to mate with kmart, and start fresh
ceilings for people that are athletically gifted are much higher than those that are fundamentally sound and not as talented physically just because there is so much to add to a base of pure athleticism. i agree that this draft, we gotta go for the gold. theres plenty of players that are gonna be starters in this league. we need a star to mate with kmart, and start fresh
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Heck, I'd like to somehow get both Jianlan and Hawes, just to hedge our bets
rhythmless
Starter
if garcia could somehow pull 2 solid plays together, hes a great sf with point guard skills. imagine a lineup of martin, garcia, and yi. implement a good running system, and watch em fly!
edit: sorry i jacked this thread with yi talk...
bmiller comparisons make me scared. seems to be a miller before he got soft, as they praise his toughness, but note his lack of athleticism.
edit: sorry i jacked this thread with yi talk...
bmiller comparisons make me scared. seems to be a miller before he got soft, as they praise his toughness, but note his lack of athleticism.
nbrans
All-Star
The thing that people always forget when they compare people to Divac is that he was a legit 7'1" and BIG, with really long arms. Those extra inches make a world of difference. Even when he couldn't jump over a piece of paper he still could make a difference with that size and he didn't need to jump. The difference between Divac's 7'1" and Brad Miller's 6'11" is becoming rapidly apparent. They probably have about the same athletic ability at this point, but Divac could still be reasonably strong in the post whereas Miller is pretty much useless at this point.
All of this is to say that Divac's success as a relatively-unathletic-but-skilled big man, like Ric Smits, Arvydas Sabonis, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, etc., is predicated on size. You knock those guys down to 6'11" and suddenly they're not so special.
I mean, what is the track record for unathletic 6'11" guys who are skilled in the post?? Look at Nazr Muhammad, Bogut, Kaman, etc., not to mention guys like Michael Doleac. When has the not-particularly-athletic 6'11" thing ever worked since the Kevin McHale days? Brad Miller is about the peak of potential there, which, admittedly, is a pretty good cieling but not something you build a franchise around.
So I really don't care too much about Hawes' skills. There just isn't an upside for guys like him. Unathletic jack of all trades end up one place - the bench.
All of this is to say that Divac's success as a relatively-unathletic-but-skilled big man, like Ric Smits, Arvydas Sabonis, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, etc., is predicated on size. You knock those guys down to 6'11" and suddenly they're not so special.
I mean, what is the track record for unathletic 6'11" guys who are skilled in the post?? Look at Nazr Muhammad, Bogut, Kaman, etc., not to mention guys like Michael Doleac. When has the not-particularly-athletic 6'11" thing ever worked since the Kevin McHale days? Brad Miller is about the peak of potential there, which, admittedly, is a pretty good cieling but not something you build a franchise around.
So I really don't care too much about Hawes' skills. There just isn't an upside for guys like him. Unathletic jack of all trades end up one place - the bench.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Why don't you wait until the predraft measurements come out before you label him the next nazr muhammad. I guess Yi Jianlian is the guy we're going to build our franchise around. Now, I'm not against YJL or anything, but people conveniently forget the dude is light as a feather and gets pushed around by chinese players.
nbrans
All-Star
I'm not saying he's going to be the next Nazr Muhammad.
And Jianlian can jump and is athletic. I'm not saying he's necessarily the guy we can build our franchise around either, but I'd much rather tie my fortunes to an athletic big with potential over an unathletic big with lots of "skills."
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I think that's a fair stance and I might even agree with picking him over hawes, but I don't think the disparity between YJL and Hawes is so huge that we take the much bigger risk. If we're the fifth pick or lower we're not likely in line for a franchise changer regardless, so we're just going to have to pick BPA. I highly doubt Jianlian becomes a star, but i guess you never know.
I really like Julian Wright. Great athlete, good passer, good handle, tenacious defense, and a pretty good shot. I think he projects as a very nice SF with a Scottie Pippen type of ceiling, hopefully without the attitude. A similar player who will carry a lower grade is Jeff Green. I'm a fan of his as well.
Jianlin would be a good pick in the late lottery. I see him as an oversized SF who will probably struggle guarding good ball handlers man-to-man but could be effective on help side if we can hide him against the other team's weakest ballhandler/shooter. Jianlin and Martin at the 2-3 would put up some points, but obviously won't stop anybody either.
I have not seen too much of Hawes, but judging from scouting reports I agree with Brick. He sounds like a guy who would have value sometime after the #8 pick. I'd much rather end up with Hawes than an obvious bust like McRoberts. Heck, I'd rather have Hansbrough than a lot of these so-called lottery locks.
Horford has the ceiling of a poor-man's Elton Brand. Good low-post scorer and rebounder, but mediocre defense, moderate athleticism and no leadership. A grade him out like Hawes. A solid pick after the middle of the lottery, but not someone I want to spend a top 5 pick on.
Jianlin would be a good pick in the late lottery. I see him as an oversized SF who will probably struggle guarding good ball handlers man-to-man but could be effective on help side if we can hide him against the other team's weakest ballhandler/shooter. Jianlin and Martin at the 2-3 would put up some points, but obviously won't stop anybody either.
I have not seen too much of Hawes, but judging from scouting reports I agree with Brick. He sounds like a guy who would have value sometime after the #8 pick. I'd much rather end up with Hawes than an obvious bust like McRoberts. Heck, I'd rather have Hansbrough than a lot of these so-called lottery locks.
Horford has the ceiling of a poor-man's Elton Brand. Good low-post scorer and rebounder, but mediocre defense, moderate athleticism and no leadership. A grade him out like Hawes. A solid pick after the middle of the lottery, but not someone I want to spend a top 5 pick on.
rhythmless
Starter
i think the disparity between hawes and jianlian is that we are all pretty much agreeing that hawes isnt going to be the next game changing center. hes a decent pick where hes being projected, but hes looking like a starter/all star depending on waht season it is and what the other centers are giving. this is mostly what brad miller was. few years ago miller is even arguably a top 5 center, but its not what im looking for.
nbrans
All-Star
Whoa there. Mediocre defense and moderate athleticism? Did you watch the game tonight?
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