Skal Labissiere revisited

bajaden said:
Yeah, your spot on. Chriss has had some good moments, but in general, he's looked like a fish out of water way too often for me to tout him as the being a success. Skal, in his limited minutes has looked far better than Chriss in general. There are times when Chriss appears totally lost on defense and on offense. Of course there are times when the entire Sun's team looks lost. I wasn't that high on Chriss prior to the draft, and if anything, he's been a disappointment. The one area where Skal stands out over Chriss is BBIQ. Skal has a much better feel for the game.

With all that, I'm not saying I dislike Chriss. Just, that at the moment, based on what I've seen so far, I'd choose Skal over Chriss. It's a very small body of work to go on with Skal, but he has shown signs of being star material. I just don't see that in Chriss. Now in fairness to Chriss, Skal hasn't had to guard Cousins. OK. Chriss couldn't guard Cousins, but then not many can.
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One of Chriss' big issues that carried over from college is his high foul rate. Often it ends up limiting his minutes. It should be something he can easily fix but he wasn't able to at UW and he he hasn't shown any signs so far as a pro of addressing it.

I generally give rookies a bit of a break on defense and defensive lapses but Chriss has to clean up his fouls.

His low rebounding rate also continues to be a concern. Chriss has the potential to be the poster child for the prototype PF in today's NBA but he still has a long way to go and some clear red flags.

He may end up being a better player than Skal but he may not. Skal (barring injury) looks like a lock to at least be a contributing player for 10 years or more. I think Labissiere actually has a higher floor.

And I say that as someone who predraft was on board with taking the two Huskies (Chriss and Murray) at #8 and #22 and who considered Skal one of my least favorite prospects. He's dramatically changed my opinion of him with his play of late.
 
206Fan said:
ok...no offense, but are you serious? Hield has been terrible for NO this year. Hield has been average at best with the Kings. Murray has sucked...I like Juan as much as the next guy, but to call him a better rookie than Chriss is insulting. I don't think Jaylen Brown has been better than Chriss.

Yeah, I'd like to see where any of those guys have done what Chriss has. Really not sure what you have against him to call him "horrible". And Chriss only started receiving big minutes as of late.
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all you've got are Dawkins highlights?

Chriss is an inefficient scorer for being so low-volume. He has a 52 TS% on only 19 USG%
He's an atrocious rebounder. He has a total rebounding rate of 10%. That's 30th among rookies.
He's a fouling machine averaging 6 fouls per 36 minutes
He's terrible on defense, as his team's defensive rating is 4.5 points better with him off the court.

Only positive in his column is that he's an average three point shooter for a big (32.7%). Growth potential there.

He's got great physical tools and has been better recently, but lets not pretend he's been anything other than god-awful this year.
 
bajaden said:
Yeah, your spot on. Chriss has had some good moments, but in general, he's looked like a fish out of water way too often for me to tout him as the being a success. Skal, in his limited minutes has looked far better than Chriss in general. There are times when Chriss appears totally lost on defense and on offense. Of course there are times when the entire Sun's team looks lost. I wasn't that high on Chriss prior to the draft, and if anything, he's been a disappointment. The one area where Skal stands out over Chriss is BBIQ. Skal has a much better feel for the game.

With all that, I'm not saying I dislike Chriss. Just, that at the moment, based on what I've seen so far, I'd choose Skal over Chriss. It's a very small body of work to go on with Skal, but he has shown signs of being star material. I just don't see that in Chriss. Now in fairness to Chriss, Skal hasn't had to guard Cousins. OK. Chriss couldn't guard Cousins, but then not many can.
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Interesting that you say that. The one area where Chriss looks at home is on defense. He plays passing lanes really well and has fast hands when guarding the post. Also if Skal has a higher bballiq it is not by much. Skal still constantly dribbles into double teams and makes soft passes to the wrong man. Obviously he has had less time to work out the kinks than Chriss has had, but still too early to determine his bball iq based on a few fadeaways and rebounds.
 
206Fan said:
Chriss is better than Skal. I've watched some of Phoenix this season, and Chriss is the best rookie of this class. I guess there's Brogdon too, but he's 5 years older than Chriss...

Skal has flashed a lot, but Chriss is more athletic, skilled, and talented. On offense, Skal is limited to his mid-ranges and putbacks. Chriss can post up, hit mid ranges, face up and attack, shoot the 3 ball, and play above the rim. On defense, Chriss is also a better shotblocker.

The only thing Skal does better than Chriss is rebound. I think we'll regret passing up on Chriss. He as all-star talents with superstar athleticism. Probably the smoothest and best athlete in the NBA.
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Dude you lost all credibility when you said Skal is limited to his mid range game. One of Skal's absolute strengths is his post game. He has very advanced post game and post foot works. At the moment it might lack efficiency because he lacks strength and can be pushed off the block easily, hence the counter move of a turn around jumper. He has a hook shot, both left and right hand.

The only thing Skal can't do offensively at the moment is shoot the NBA 3 consistently. Even that! I am not concerned about his ability to extend his range to 3pt line.
 
Čarolija said:
Dude you lost all credibility when you said Skal is limited to his mid range game. One of Skal's absolute strengths is his post game. He has very advanced post game and post foot works. At the moment it might lack efficiency because he lacks strength and can be pushed off the block easily, hence the counter move of a turn around jumper. He has a hook shot, both left and right hand.

The only thing Skal can't do offensively at the moment is shoot the NBA 3 consistently. Even that! I am not concerned about his ability to extend his range to 3pt line.
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I know we're all Kings fans, but the blind homerism for Skal is on another level.

Skal's post game is his midrange. I'd like to see him post up bigger players and see how he fairs. The dude has played less than 200mins this season. but ok, let's crown him the next best thing.

HighFlyingMonkey said:
all you've got are Dawkins highlights?

Chriss is an inefficient scorer for being so low-volume. He has a 52 TS% on only 19 USG%
He's an atrocious rebounder. He has a total rebounding rate of 10%. That's 30th among rookies.
He's a fouling machine averaging 6 fouls per 36 minutes
He's terrible on defense, as his team's defensive rating is 4.5 points better with him off the court.

Only positive in his column is that he's an average three point shooter for a big (32.7%). Growth potential there.

He's got great physical tools and has been better recently, but lets not pretend he's been anything other than god-awful this year.
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LOL OK.

I'm not going to argue against anymore points. Chriss has performed in the NBA. Look at his freaking stats.
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3907487/marquese-chriss

Whatever. I'm done. I'm not looking to change people's POV, because I personally know that I've watched over 30 Phoenix games this year, while other people just like to do box-score watching. I'll trust my eyes.

Yeah, Chriss is freaking god-awful for putting up 27pts and 6rebs. Or putting up 18pts 6rebs last night. Yeah, god-awful. LOL
 
Kingsfan23 said:
A lot of people seem to like to attack the things this franchise has going for it (Skal/Buddy most of all)). Do these folks want to believe we have no players on this roster?
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Yeah, the only thing that keeps me somewhat excited and intrigued about this team (make no mistake, I still loathe ownership and the front office for that dumb Cousins trade ) is the fact that they have FOUR players from this past draft, Willie Cauley-Stein from the 2015 draft and Bogdanovich (hopefully) coming over next season. That's 6 young players PLUS whatever they may get in the upcoming draft to develop and build upon. There is reason for some optimism.

On the topic of having 4 players from the 2016 draft (6, 13, 22, 28), it's very reminiscent of the 1990 draft then the Kings drafted 4 players in the 1st round (7, 14, 18, 23). Let's hope these four turn out much better than those did. ;)


Kingz19 said:
Kings traded Chriss for Papa, Bogdan, and Skal.
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While technically true, some need to remember that they likely picked Chriss because that's who the SUNS asked them to select. In short, they were making the pick for Phoenix and not themselves. Had they kept the pick, we have no idea who they may have selected. For all we know, #21 would have still reached for Papa at #8 had he not been able to trade down and acquire more assets.

The_Jamal said:
It's easy to bag on Chriss's lack of defense, but we also haven't seen Skal have to guard the same caliber of players that he has.
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Which is likely the reason we didn't see much of Skal over the 1st half of the season and why they continue to pick their spots with him.
 
Any chance Skal can develop into a Small Forward with his skills?

It would open up our choices in the draft too, if he can handle some small forward minutes.

Like our version of the Greek Freak, the Hatian Sensation! :)
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
...While technically true, some need to remember that they likely picked Chriss because that's who the SUNS asked them to select. In short, they were making the pick for Phoenix and not themselves. Had they kept the pick, we have no idea who they may have selected. For all we know, #21 would have still reached for Papa at #8 had he not been able to trade down and acquire more assets.
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Thank you. I think people have forgotten (or chosen to ignore) that part of the story.
 
206Fan said:
I know we're all Kings fans, but the blind homerism for Skal is on another level.

Skal's post game is his midrange. I'd like to see him post up bigger players and see how he fairs. The dude has played less than 200mins this season. but ok, let's crown him the next best thing.


LOL OK.

I'm not going to argue against anymore points. Chriss has performed in the NBA. Look at his freaking stats.
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3907487/marquese-chriss

Whatever. I'm done. I'm not looking to change people's POV, because I personally know that I've watched over 30 Phoenix games this year, while other people just like to do box-score watching. I'll trust my eyes.

Yeah, Chriss is freaking god-awful for putting up 27pts and 6rebs. Or putting up 18pts 6rebs last night. Yeah, god-awful. LOL
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Come on now! Homerism?!

Where have I crowned Skal as the next big thing? If anything I am the one saying temper the expectations because this fan base is notorious for overrating anyone with a glimpse of talent.

I posed a genuine question if there is a massive difference between Skal and Chriss. The only thing I pulled you up on is you implying that Skal has no post game. He does have the post game but he is not strong enough to utilize it at this level. He attempts to post up, gets pushed off the block easily because of his lack of strength and his counter move to that is the turnaround jumper.

Skal clearly has a post game for anyone paying any attention to him. Good post moves, good counter moves if his first option gets taken away and his footwork in the post is pretty darn good.

Does this mean he will be a franchise player? Hell No! Is he going to be better than Chriss? I don't know!

What I do know is that the kid has some real talent. The reason I do like him is mostly because of his post game. He needs to get stronger. A LOT stronger where he can come in and utilize that post game more effectively. It would also be nice if he did stretch that jumper to beyond 3PT line! Would make him a difficult cover! He has potential to be a good piece for this team going forward but not the main guy.

Buddy on the other hand, I am not so sure about.
 
I love the kid. In terms of his body, he's a cross between Jamaal Wilkes, Tayshaun Prince and George Gervin except with more height. He's got excellent shooting touch, good feel for the game, excellent nose for the basketball, and very quick jumping ability and high jumping ability combined with those long arms make it virtually impossible for anybody to block his shot and really helps him make the spectacular weak-side block on defense. Moreover, he's got excellent balance, a trait that is often underestimated in basketball; that's why despite his current thin frame he can make shots in traffic against much heftier players. There's a lot to work with there. Just like with Isaiah Thomas when many were vastly underestimating his potential because of his size, I think it's a big mistake to underestimate this young man because of his weight.
 
Kingster said:
I love the kid. In terms of his body, he's a cross between Jamaal Wilkes, Tayshaun Prince and George Gervin except with more height. He's got excellent shooting touch, good feel for the game, excellent nose for the basketball, and very quick jumping ability and high jumping ability combined with those long arms make it virtually impossible for anybody to block his shot and really helps him make the spectacular weak-side block on defense. Moreover, he's got excellent balance, a trait that is often underestimated in basketball; that's why despite his current thin frame he can make shots in traffic against much heftier players. There's a lot to work with there. Just like with Isaiah Thomas when many were vastly underestimating his potential because of his size, I think it's a big mistake to underestimate this young man because of his weight.
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Ding ding ding! you are a winner. You don't want him to add too much weight because that will be more fat than muscle for starters, you can only gain so much muscle in a year anyway. Also, you want him to stay quick on his feet.
 
Skal reminds me of Kevin McHale with his craftiness to get and make shots. McHale had no problem playing in the post and he was no bigger than Skal. Lets just wait and see what develops:)

The Chriss ship sailed with the trade. Best of luck to him.
 
kingsboi said:
Ding ding ding! you are a winner. You don't want him to add too much weight because that will be more fat than muscle for starters, you can only gain so much muscle in a year anyway. Also, you want him to stay quick on his feet.
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I agree. He's going to naturally gain weight, but through hard work he really should get quite a bit stronger.
 
HighFlyingMonkey said:
all you've got are Dawkins highlights?

Chriss is an inefficient scorer for being so low-volume. He has a 52 TS% on only 19 USG%
He's an atrocious rebounder. He has a total rebounding rate of 10%. That's 30th among rookies.
He's a fouling machine averaging 6 fouls per 36 minutes
He's terrible on defense, as his team's defensive rating is 4.5 points better with him off the court.

Only positive in his column is that he's an average three point shooter for a big (32.7%). Growth potential there.

He's got great physical tools and has been better recently, but lets not pretend he's been anything other than god-awful this year.
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And this is why stats are overrated. If you actually watch the Suns play, you would see that Chriss is amazing on the defensive end. On the Suns forum, we think he will hit his peak as a prime Serge Ibaka type player who can stretch the floor and hit 3s but make his money off being an elite rim protector. You can't teach the type of athleticism that Chriss has.

Skal looks good too, not trying to discredit him there. But you don't need to create bs and bash Chriss in order to hype up Skal.
 
PHXSUNSFAN said:
And this is why stats are overrated. If you actually watch the Suns play, you would see that Chriss is amazing on the defensive end. On the Suns forum, we think he will hit his peak as a prime Serge Ibaka type player who can stretch the floor and hit 3s but make his money off being an elite rim protector. You can't teach the type of athleticism that Chriss has.

Skal looks good too, not trying to discredit him there. But you don't need to create bs and bash Chriss in order to hype up Skal.
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Stop....Chriss got completely outplayed by Skal and he couldn't defend WCS when guarding him. Chriss was terrible tonight.
 
PHXSUNSFAN said:
And this is why stats are overrated. If you actually watch the Suns play, you would see that Chriss is amazing on the defensive end. On the Suns forum, we think he will hit his peak as a prime Serge Ibaka type player who can stretch the floor and hit 3s but make his money off being an elite rim protector. You can't teach the type of athleticism that Chriss has.
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This is typical fan overrating of blocked shots as indicators of defense.

Chriss is an atrocious defender. I've watched him play several times and he blows rotations left and right, is too weak to hold his ground in the post, and fouls like a maniac. He's really bad. The Suns as a whole are awful on defense but even still they get better when Chriss is off the floor.

Chriss may well develop into a good player. I don't know. But right now? He's a liability on the floor.
 
ockingsfan said:
Any chance Skal can develop into a Small Forward with his skills?

It would open up our choices in the draft too, if he can handle some small forward minutes.

Like our version of the Greek Freak, the Hatian Sensation! :)
Click to expand...

I think the three could be a great spot for him if he can learn to defend it. He has a massive length advantage over most 3's, plus good post ability. If his 3 pt shot continues to develop, and I don't see why it wouldn't, he shows great shooting touch everywhere else on the court, he could be a very unique weapon.
 
lwc said:
The Kings should be better defensively next season by simply not playing Afflalo or Tolliver next season unless absolutely necessary. In addition to the young guys developing.
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Nah, you still need Tolliver on this team and getting action. He and Temple are exactly the sort of veterans you want your young guys to be learning from. The last time we tried a full-on from-zero rebuild, our team vets were Kenny Thomas and Cisco.

You keep Tolliver and Temple as long as you can. You keep Kosta until Papa can be an adequate replacement (as much as we like ragging on him, Kosta is still a really really good roleplaying big). Reke I'm super on the fence about simply because, although there's a very good chance we take one in the draft, we currently only have one SF on the roster and Reke can give us serviceable time there (the team is going to be WAYYYYYY under the cap next year as well so we need somebody). Do agree we don't need Spellcheck anymore though.
 
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