Should the Kings get Phil Jackson? -- Yes

[Catalyst]

As a previous example, Rick Carlisle was coaching the Detroit Pistons and doing quite well with them. All of a sudden Larry Brown became available and a VERY good coach (Carlisle) was dropped for one of the best coaches in the league.

The Pistons were doing pretty well as a basketball team, but when the chance came to bring in a Larry Brown -- they went for it. I think we should do the same.

Some of my reasoning:

PEJA: Phil Jackson could help Peja reach his potential better than Adelman. Phil has helped MANY potential stars become actual stars. As good as Kobe was supposed to be, he never refined his game to the level it was at until Phil got there. Not only that, but Shaq improved many areas of his game when PJ showed him how -- mainly passing and defense. Phil can work with struggling stars to make them into legit stars -- he's proven it in the past.

DEFENSE: A defensive-minded coach, Phil Jackson has preached it to all of the teams he's coached previously. Adelman can get a team with the right personnel to play defense -- Phil Jackson can pull it off without those same people. Look at the lack of playing time for Brian Skinner and Greg Ostertag. If you don't play offense, you don't get minutes in Adelman's system -- unless there's an injury.

I think Adelman is a heck of a coach. There's no reason for him to lose his job here unless we are guaranteed to get Phil Jackson, and Phil is willing to work with us and who we have.

This wouldn't be a panic-move. We're not nuking the team and getting rid of Adelman because "he sucks" or ANY such nonsense as that. We're making a bold play at a coach that has proven he's a great coach many times over again.

The Kings aren't that far removed from being a contending team, and I feel the Kings are much better options than the Knicks or Lakers at this point if Phil wants to win a ring -- and you can bet he does.

I really hope that if it's reasonable to do so -- we bring in Phil Jackson to coach this team. It's a new direction and it will have its hurdles, but in the end I think it will bring us closer to being a championship team.

 

[loopymitch]

I agree but we don't have that kind of money, do we? He will not be cheap.

 

[Crvena Zvezda]

Get him just to pee the Lakers off.
Lol. Just kidding.

Really, I'm not to sure about this one. I'll have to think about it a little longer

 

[nebs]

I just can't see Phil coming to Sacramento. He would be bored out of his mind here, in cow-town.

 

[Gargamel]

I agree but we don't have that kind of money, do we? He will not be cheap.

That and the small market issue are the rubs. He's a metropolite and he wants 7 figures. I'd like to see what he could do up there though. I think he would have big problems with Petrie as he has with any previous GM who was well-established. Phil expects to have his type of players to suit the triple post offense; that means a major say in personnel decisions.

 

[Gargamel]

I just can't see Phil coming to Sacramento. He would be bored out of his mind here, in cow-town.

He could always take a trip out to Stockton or Manteca. That's what I do for excitement whenever I'm up there, although dodging insane Sacto drivers on the 5/80/99 is heart-pounding enough.

 

[Bricklayer]

a) Peja looks a lot like Glen Rice, who Phil had absolutely no use for;

b) Phil hasn't turned bad defensive players into good ones anymore than Rick has. Michael, Scottie, Rodman, Grant were great defenders with or without Phil. As, I warrant, would Kobe have turned out to be. Phil got Shaq to get in shape for a year or two, but that has a lot more to do with Shaq and his unprofessional conditioning than it does with Phil.

c) the triangle. Its Phil's offense. His crutch, even though contrary to popular belief he neither designed it nor is its guru. To win a championship with it requires major league stars which we do not have.

d) There is not room for Phil's ego and a GM. He clashed badly with Krause over the years, and was more or less fired over it. He then chased Jerrry West out of L.A. Don't even want to mess with that happening to Geoff.

e) basic structure -- think about it. Phil Jackson won 9 championships. And EVERY one of the 9 looked virtually identical as far as players and roles:

1) Batman and Robin -- two great HOF talents. At least one of whom has to be a strong post player (actually both must be able to play in there if needed), both of whom defend.
2) Defensive roleplaying PFs
3) PGs who's duties were bring the ball up, hand it off, then go stand at the three point line and spot up. On the other end, defend.
4) A 5th low minute starter who's job is to be a 3rd gun if needed, which isn't too often, provide a little defense, and stay out of the way. Most flexible positon Years 1-3 = Cartwright. Years 4-6= Longley. Year 7=Rice. Years 8-9=Fox.
5) Everybody else = roleplayers who shoot only when open, play defense, hustle.
6) The Kukoc years showed that there was room for a 6th man in the system, even one who does not play defense. But Phil was never terribly comfortable with it, and it may well have been an aberration as there was no equivalent before or after.

In short, we might be the last team ont he planet with the necessary pieces to run Phil's stuff. His Cs post up (nope) his PGs spot up and defend (nope) his PFs defend (nope) and its all keyed around two incomparable talents drawing double teams and creating space, without which the system would likely collapse. You have to squint really hard to see our pieces fit that system. And so you say, maybe for the first time in his 15 years of coaching Phil does something new. Tries a new structure. But that's not what you're paying $10mil for. You have no idea whether Phil can win it all with a different structure, even if he was willing to try it.

 

[M10Bibby]

Question, my neighbor who is a huge lakers fan was talking to me the other day sayin that if phil jackson was to come, a move he might make would be trading mike bibby and i didnt believe him and his argument was the point guard isnt vital in the triangle offense. What your take on this? is his pt valid?

 

[Gargamel]

b) Phil hasn't turned bad defensive players into good ones anymore than Rick has.

See: Derek Fisher.

Good post. You're pretty lucid for 6:46 am.

 

[Bricklayer]

See: Derek Fisher.

Good post. You're pretty lucid for 6:46 am.

9:46 my time.

 

[Gargamel]

Question, my neighbor who is a huge lakers fan was talking to me the other day sayin that if phil jackson was to come, a move he might make would be trading mike bibby and i didnt believe him and his argument was the point guard isnt vital in the triangle offense. What your take on this? is his pt valid?

He needs a facilitator more than a point. Jordan, Pippen, Harper, and Kobe have been his facilitators for 15 years. Note that Paxson, Armstrong, and Fisher were spot up shooters, 1s playing as snipers while big guards dominated the offense. He's so set in his ways that he used Payton in the sniper role when he was most effective as a back-you-down 1. That's where your friend is coming from. Bibby's fate would depend on what the Kings could get in return. Petrie wouldn't just trade him for mediocre triangle cats. Could I fathom Phil trying to move him? Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Bricklayer]

Question, my neighbor who is a huge lakers fan was talking to me the other day sayin that if phil jackson was to come, a move he might make would be trading mike bibby and i didnt believe him and his argument was the point guard isnt vital in the triangle offense. What your take on this? is his pt valid?

Entirely possible. Its possible Bibby could stay. But its likely he would be entirely wasted if he did -- let's say 10-12pts as a spot up shooter -- and his lack of defense might well spell his end. There is no place for a PG acting like a PG in Phil's system, as Gary Payton found out last year.

 

[Gargamel]

9:46 my time.

Good point about Rice. I always forget that guy was even on the team. Phil detested him and his inaptitude for the tri. So much animosity built up between them that Glen's wife Christina was talkin S about him to the media. Rice was shipped out for Horace Grant who was ancient and only good for 1 year. In 2 years, they went from Eddie Jones to Grant, but, in the end, damned if Phil didn't know his tri players. Grant was invaluable in the 2001 playoffs.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I just can't see Phil coming to Sacramento. He would be bored out of his mind here, in cow-town.

How is a guy from Montana, that went to school in North Dakota going to get bored in the capitol city of California, where Arnold and the Maloofs are??*L*

 

[VF21]

Phil Jackson may have gone to school in North Dakota but he's seen the bright lights of the big city. He ain't gonna settle for Sacramento. You can take that to the bank.

...

Old memory: How you gonna keep em down on the farm after they've seen Par-ee? (And it was a song popular BEFORE I was born.)

 

[Team Dime]

I just can't see Phil coming to Sacramento. He would be bored out of his mind here, in cow-town.

They said the same about Webber, but he grew to love area. Winning cures all.

Last I heard, CWebb still had a house in Granite Bay. Does anyone know if he still has it or is looking to sell it? (Not that I can afford to buy it, just curious if he still wants to live in the area).

 

[Fillmoe]

He prolly still has the house... if Jerome James makes enough to keep a house out here than CWebb is good for years!

 

[bozzwell]

Maloofs can get Phil if Buss doesn't offer ownership and they do. With Phillip still undecided whether he will coach next year, it is the question of how badly you want him. Everybody and everything in NBA has its price and if Maloofs want their man they can have him. Phillip got squeezed out of Chicago and LA in power strugles. If he is the "power" he will just need to defend his turf as opposed to trying to invade on the turf of his GM (Krause) or his players/GM/owner (LA).

If I am Maloof, I'd start looking for the next Phillip instead of mortgaging the farm to get the "classic" edition Mark III. Put Rick on 1 year transition program and start looking for successor. That is if you lost your faith in Rick and you want him gone or in different position ASAP.

 

[VF21]

They said the same about Webber, but he grew to love area. Winning cures all.

Last I heard, CWebb still had a house in Granite Bay. Does anyone know if he still has it or is looking to sell it? (Not that I can afford to buy it, just curious if he still wants to live in the area).

Actually, Webber has two homes in Granite Bay.

As far as comparing Jackson to Webber goes, you're talking apples and turnips. Webber didn't choose to come here. He was traded here and had to either adapt or quit playing. BIG difference.

 

[VF21]

Maloofs can get Phil if Buss doesn't offer ownership and they do. With Phillip still undecided whether he will coach next year, it is the question of how badly you want him. Everybody and everything in NBA has its price and if Maloofs want their man they can have him. Phillip got squeezed out of Chicago and LA in power strugles. If he is the "power" he will just need to defend his turf as opposed to trying to invade on the turf of his GM (Krause) or his players/GM/owner (LA).

If I am Maloof, I'd start looking for the next Phillip instead of mortgaging the farm to get the "classic" edition Mark III. Put Rick on 1 year transition program and start looking for successor. That is if you lost your faith in Rick and you want him gone or in different position ASAP.

You're making a couple of really big leaps off assumption cliff there. First, how do you know Phil Jackson wants to be an owner? I don't think there's been anything said or done that would indicate such a conclusion. In addition, people just aren't getting it - Phil Jackson doesn't want to come to Sacramento because he doesn't have to. It has NOTHING to offer him. It ISN'T one or two tweaks away from a championship. The city ISN'T a cultural mecca. The night life sucks, even though it's drastically improved over 10 years ago... He can go back to LA as a returning hero, and pretty much write his own ticket.

Just why would he come to Sacramento? The fact that SOME people around here (like Ailene Voisin) seem to think he's seriously considering it is just not substantiated by any kinds of facts.

...Of course, having taken the time to type all of that, he'll probably announce he's coming here just to prove me wrong...

But I don't think so.

 

[Padrino]

You're making a couple of really big leaps off assumption cliff there. First, how do you know Phil Jackson wants to be an owner? I don't think there's been anything said or done that would indicate such a conclusion. In addition, people just aren't getting it - Phil Jackson doesn't want to come to Sacramento because he doesn't have to. It has NOTHING to offer him. It ISN'T one or two tweaks away from a championship. The city ISN'T a cultural mecca. The night life sucks, even though it's drastically improved over 10 years ago... He can go back to LA as a returning hero, and pretty much write his own ticket.

Just why would he come to Sacramento? The fact that SOME people around here (like Ailene Voisin) seem to think he's seriously considering it is just not substantiated by any kinds of facts.

...Of course, having taken the time to type all of that, he'll probably announce he's coming here just to prove me wrong...

But I don't think so.

either way, i'm sure phil jackson just loves this situation. my prediction, for whatever its worth, is that he doesnt coach at all next season. the only team i could see him actually turning around that is in need of a head coach is minnesota, and i say that cuz minnesota can only go up from this past season. phil's just waiting it out, buying his time, and increasing his market value. the fact that so many teams are in "competition" for jackson will only mean that whoever finally lands him will be paying him a ****load of money. it dont matter if the kings are actually among those teams competing for jackson. the fact that the kings have been mentioned in the media as a possible location for phil jackson's return as head coach will only inflate his price amongst the other teams. i dont think the maloofs, as loyal owners, would dump adelman just to pay phil jackson a whole lot more to do the same things. the kings may (or may not) need a change at head coach, but if, in the near future, they decide to make that change, it wont be phil jackson, and primarily for the reasons you have already stated.

 

[VF21]

Rumors are really starting to float around LA that a deal is just a few dotted i's and crossed t's away from getting PJ back to the Lakers...

 

[Padrino]

Rumors are really starting to float around LA that a deal is just a few dotted i's and crossed t's away from getting PJ back to the Lakers...

maybe i'm wrong then. maybe phil really was just on a small LA hiatus, leaving them on ice, and forcing them to give him a better deal. its sorta poetic, in a "city of angels" kinda way.

 

[VF21]

If he does go back, he will never have another problem with Kobe Bryant. And that just might be why he left in the first place - you know, telling Kobe to be careful what he wishes for and then just stepping back and waiting for the bottom to fall out.

A true Zen Master stroke if ever I saw one.

PJ, by leaving, did absolutely nothing and yet was the indirect cause of pretty much everything.

 

[Padrino]

If he does go back, he will never have another problem with Kobe Bryant. And that just might be why he left in the first place - you know, telling Kobe to be careful what he wishes for and then just stepping back and waiting for the bottom to fall out.

A true Zen Master stroke if ever I saw one.

PJ, by leaving, did absolutely nothing and yet was the indirect cause of pretty much everything.

kinda aggravating, isn't it? he plays these mind games, and ya dont believe it actually has any impact...but then ya do see the impact, and wonder just how much he had to do with it. its frustrating, cuz i've always said "zen master my ***," but he continues to play the role of "much wiser than thou," and he always seems to come out on top. those 9 rings speak volumes, regardless of how much influence he had in obtaining them.

 

[Abe Frohman]

I wouldn't want Phil because I want a coach who is hungry. I don't think he is anymore and hasn't been in quite a while. Of course the problem with getting a coach who is hungry usually means that coach is a loser or unproven, but hey at least he is passionate. It was getting to the point where Phil never even stood up anymore during a game. I know, he's proven I guess but for me, I just like to see a little passion. Like Gene Hackman.

 

[hoopsfan]

"the fact that the kings have been mentioned in the media as a possible location for phil jackson's return as head coach will only inflate his price amongst the other teams."

I read a lot about the NBA and the ONLY place I've seen it mentioned about PJ coming to Sac. was from Miss Voison....3 times last week.

 

[Padrino]

"the fact that the kings have been mentioned in the media as a possible location for phil jackson's return as head coach will only inflate his price amongst the other teams."

I read a lot about the NBA and the ONLY place I've seen it mentioned about PJ coming to Sac. was from Miss Voison....3 times last week.

thats all that needs to appear in the media. ya think the rest of the nba knows voison is a hack journalist? it dont matter...the more teams mentioned in "jackson talks," the more competitive the rest of the teams will become.

 

[hoopsfan]

... if no one reads Voison,.. how does it make it more competitive?

 

[KP]

Phil Jackson coach of the Kings=Blasphemy.