Should Martin have been benched?

J

JayBird

Bench
#1
#1
This is going off of nbrans' comments in the grades thread, just wondering what others thought... Should Kevin have been benched after his worst performance of the year?

While I don't think his game would have picked up any, from a confidence standpoint that was a potentially bad move by Musselman.

Teams are starting to pay more and more attention to him, and these nights are going to happen. If he's going to be taken out every time a few shots don't fall, it will definitely hurt his growth. But he was still helping the team in that the clippers always had one guy rotating over to help defend Martin, leaving shots open for Bibby, Miller and others.

You guys think Musselman did the right thing?
 
Z

ZanesvilleFan

G-League
#3
#3
I dont agree with benching him. Its not like he was taking bad shots (besides the fade-a-way in the 2nd quarter). But then you look at it as they DID get the "W". So maybe Muss was right.
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#4
#4
we won the game and there is really no reason to make a big deal out of it. He wasn't even the worst player on the court.
 
nbrans

nbrans

All-Star
#5
#5
To expand on what I said in the grade thread, I think down the stretch it made sense to go with the lineup that was working. Salmons was playing great D, was getting his hands on boards and was making the offense happen. So down the stretch, maybe you decide that's your best lineup, and it worked.

The problem I have was with the quick hook in the second and third quarters. The game wasn't out of reach, he was valuable in the sense that he was being double-teamed, and his defense was fine. It would be one thing if his head wasn't in the game -- it was, at that point. He just wasn't hitting his shots, which happens to everyone. But you could see the confidence drain out of him as the game went on, he misses a shot badly, and boom, he's back on the bench for the rest of the game.

To me, the only reason you bench a guy is if his head isn't in the game and/or he's seriously hurting the team with his play. Benching a guy early in a game just because he's missing shots is amateur coaching, in my opinion. It's a great way to sap a player's confidence to little positive effect. Unless there's something going on health-wise, I just think it's amateurish.
 
6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#7
#7
#1 Kevin has plenty of confidence. I don't think being benched tonight will destroy that confidence.
#2 Muss has a quick hook sometimes...sometimes too quick.
#3 The Kings won, and that is the most important thing.
#4 Would I have done the same thing? NO, but then I don't make the big bucks.
 
KevinMartinsGirl23

KevinMartinsGirl23

Bench
#8
#8
I think this whole situation really begs a different issue.. I think teams are starting to watch tapes and prepare for Kevin. This is going to be the next step in his game.. being able to rise above this and find other ways to contribute- which he normally does. Also, his shot was a little off tonight, but that'll happen. The Clips defense was really focusing on him tonight, so I think that did have a lot to do with it. I am not going to be too critical of Muss' decision because we got the W. I don't know if I woulda benched him, but we have to remember that other people such as Salmons and Artest were having good nights too and that is a factor.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#9
#9
No, my belated grade for Muss mentions this -- don't think you have that quick a hook for your leading scorer, and don't think it helps him grow.

Now on the other hand I don't actually think he was helping much at all -- not as if he was beating the doubles and pressure and setting people up out of it for assists, nor was it as if the rest of the guys were going off offesnively due to the attention paid to Kevin. It was a struggle, for him and us. But still think that that was probably too quick -- obviously you want to beat the Clips, but they are the Clips, and there are larger issues here than this one game. Given the Clips' success, teams will be studying these tapes, and Kevin will see something like this again at some point I'm sure. Would have been nice for him to have had a chance to finally hit a shot or two against it -- maybe even for the coaching staff to you know, have drawn something up in the dirt over there.
 
Jechtsphere

Jechtsphere

Starter
#10
#10
He had a bad night so if he's not helping and you need help get someone else in there...besides he should be rested for the next game playing like 22 minutes tonight.

I'm not worried, his confidence will be fine...I don't think he's that fragile.
 
OptimusRhyme

OptimusRhyme

Jive Turkey
#11
#11
Its part of his transition to being a great player, teams are focusing on his scoring so much that it throws his game off, I think taking him out of the game every time he missed a cuple GOOD shot attempts was a stupid move, he is going to have games like this, people know what he can do now things arent going to get easier for Martin, this was suppose to be a learning game...How is he suppose to learn when hes on the bench..He has too play throught that stuff,
I give him props for getting the W for us but he and our team got lucky tonight.
 
creAtivetfh

creAtivetfh

Starter
#12
#12
it was a great move by Muss tonight. All of you are still to used to how Adelman used to coach. Where he would only leave in the veterans even if they werent playing well at all.

The substitutions were what won this game IMO. Taking out Garcia for Salmons completely shut down Mobley and taking out Martin was just as good. We were getting more production out of the other line up. At one point Martin was so frustrated that when he missed a layup, instead of getting back on defense, he moaped around and it led to a fast break. Its good to see that there isnt much of a Veteran or Starter bias by coach muss. He seems to go with what is working the best. Which is what a coach is paid to do.
 
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HndsmCelt

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#13
#13
Good coaches let good players work out their kinks. When top shooters like Kobe, T Mac or Ray Allen are having a bad night no one asks why they were not benched. Now Admitedly Kevin is not quite in that leage (yet) but so far this season he has played like he is, and the BEST way for a coach to build/maintain confidence in one of his players is to treat them with trust and confidence. Muss treated a pro like a pro and even if the Kings had lost this game it would still have been the right decision.
 
A

Andriod_KiNg

Starter
#14
#14
Well, i think he made the right choice, it wasnt working with Martin, and i liked how Muss doesnt care who the player is, if they are not doing well he will try to bring in something that can....
 
C

Cal-Kings

Bench
#15
#15
As a Kevin Martin fan, I would have liked for him to stay in the game and work through it. However, I suspect even Kevin would say the team is more important. We were struggling to say 1-2 points in range of the Clippers at the point where Muss took him out. Kevin looked frustrated which isn't a good sign for a quick recovery. At that point in the game, we needed more focus.

And I believe Salmons came in the game in place of Garcia who'd just left Mobley open for wide-open threes. Once Salmons took Mobley, we basically stopped all Clippers scoring and went on to win by the 13 points. In that instance, I give Muss credit for seeing the huge weakness on D and fixing it.
 
C

cfechter

Bench
#16
#16
JayBird said:
This is going off of nbrans' comments in the grades thread, just wondering what others thought... Should Kevin have been benched after his worst performance of the year?

While I don't think his game would have picked up any, from a confidence standpoint that was a potentially bad move by Musselman.

Teams are starting to pay more and more attention to him, and these nights are going to happen. If he's going to be taken out every time a few shots don't fall, it will definitely hurt his growth. But he was still helping the team in that the clippers always had one guy rotating over to help defend Martin, leaving shots open for Bibby, Miller and others.

You guys think Musselman did the right thing?
Click to expand...
He should have absolutely not been benched. In fact, I'm disappointed he didn't play more. Your star players need the time to work these things out.
 
BawLa

BawLa

Starter
#17
#17
I say yes. As much as I love Kmoney, he needed to be benched for the same reason anyone gets benched in that situation. Muss wants players on the floor that are productive. When you aren't being productive then he's going to get someone on the floor that will. Just because Kevin is our Knight in Shining Armor doesn't mean he gets a free pass from the bench when he stinks it up. The idea of benching your starter is to shake him up and get him to find that desire to play and do anything positive for the team's goal of winning. Even that didn't work. Don't get mad at Muss for trying to win a game.
 
CalBears1

CalBears1

G-League
#18
#18
I agree with Muss benching him, especially in the 2nd half. I was at the game and his confidence was not there. In the 2nd half, there were many times when his head was down, staring at the ground. Numerous times Ron was out there yelling at him to keep his head up, but to no evail. He was forcing shots up in the 2nd half to try and get going, and he started commiting stupid fouls out of frustration.

Salmons was the better player last night, and that is why Muss when with him.
 
tyrant

tyrant

Starter
#20
#20
doesnt really matter to me. play the players who are producing. the key is leave a player in the game if he's creating opportunities for others.
 
Kingzrool

Kingzrool

Starter
#21
#21
I can agree with both sides. I really think that Muss's hook is to quick. We've seen it with Cisco and now Kev. I agree that Kev should be given time to work out kinks.

On the other hand, it is a team game and I really used to hate the way the RA would leave in his "A" team when it clearly was not working out. I am not going to criticize Muss because I think that he needs to find a balance in his approach of adjusting his strategy to the game in hand. I think that with the team we have, perfecting these in game adjustments will be crucial.

On a different note - Kev is going to have to adjust his game a little now that he is the man. I did not see enough movement when he was not in possesion. And he will learn how to take more advantage of double teams. All this will come and we are lucky to have him on our team.
 
R

rumpled

G-League
#22
#22
Well anyway, I think the best response and the professional thing to do is to take it out on the next guy who tries to guard him, so we'll see how that goes.
 
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