Should Kings org. be appealing to the NBA to protect DMC more?

[IfAt1st]

With the way Demarcus is being defended (i.e. is smacked around more than anyone I know of in the NBA), it is just a matter of time before he is injured so bad he's out for an extended period of time.

I guess this is as good of place as any to ask the question ;
Does anyone else think the Kings organization should be doing more (either publicly or behind the scenes) to appeal to the NBA to protect Demarcus more?
Demarcus represents one of the last of the big men (with a bully style), and there may be a significant appeal around the NBA to his continued rise.

The NBA works by promoting stars, and there's no way Demarcus is going to have any longevity absorbing the punishment he is currently...

 

[Kings_on_the_RiSE]

With the way Demarcus is being defended (i.e. is smacked around more than anyone I know of in the NBA), it is just a matter of time before he is injured so bad he's out for an extended period of time.

I guess this is as good of place as any to ask the question ;
Does anyone else think the Kings organization should be doing more (either publicly or behind the scenes) to appeal to the NBA to protect Demarcus more?
Demarcus represents one of the last of the big men (with a bully style), and there may be a significant appeal around the NBA to his continued rise.

The NBA works by promoting stars, and there's no way Demarcus is going to have any longevity absorbing the punishment he is currently...

This is something I was thinking about as well. The Kings, as an organization, should compile all questionable non-calls, controversial physicality etc., and send it to the league for further evaluation. I really feel for Boogie. He doesn't deserve getting mugged with absolutely no sympathy from these refs.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Now the ankle wasn't a consequence from the Grizzlies defense on DMC. Just a couple of very unlucky incidents.
But I agree, that DMC gets pushed, slapped and pulled everytime he gets close to the basket. And the ref's are letting it go more often than not.
No other big man gets treated like this, let alone a wing of guard. For me as a biased Kings fan it certainly looks like the NBA doesn't want someone like DMC around.

 

[Blob]

I really feel for Boogie. He doesn't deserve getting mugged with absolutely no sympathy from these refs.

He leads the NBA in free throw attempts.

 

[King Baller]

He leads the NBA in free throw attempts.

And he is shooting about half as many as he should be.

 

[Kings_of_California]

He leads the NBA in free throw attempts.

Yea...the guy is averaging over 10 FT per game. Took 14 of them last night, and 73 total over the last 5 games. I wouldn't say he receives no sympathy.

 

[Blob]

And he is shooting about half as many as he should be.

A defender is allowed his space on the floor. A lot of time Boogie's is dislodging a player or initiating contact and looking for a whistle. Refs do not reward this. When Boogie is looking for a call and not getting it, it is often he is imposing upon a guys rights to space on the floor. That's not a foul. That's play on.

As long as a defender is vertical and not jumping into his driving lane the ref is not going to bail out the offense player. You could make the argument Boogie could get a few more calls but I don't really see it. Twice as many? No way.

 

[KingsFanGER]

A defender is allowed his space on the floor. A lot of time Boogie's is dislodging a player or initiating contact and looking for a whistle. Refs do not reward this. When Boogie is looking for a call and not getting it, it is often he is imposing upon a guys rights to space on the floor. That's not a foul. That's play on.

As long as a defender is vertical and not jumping into his driving lane the ref is not going to bail out the offense player. You could make the argument Boogie could get a few more calls but I don't really see it. Twice as many? No way.

Well we may be watching a different league than, because players like Harden (making contact with his arms while driving almost 90% call), Wade (pump fake+jump into the defender), Lebron, Durant initiate a ton of contact and get the calls for it.
And that's only accounting for the drives. But the way I see it DMC doesn't miss so many shots close to the basket, when there is no contact. More often than not you see a replay of those "blocked shots" or "point blank misses" and see a guy grabbing his shoulders or making contact with his arms.
There is no way the ref's would allow defenders to handle Curry that way.
No I know DMC is a big guy, but rules are rules. There is not some ruleset, where a foul is not a foul, when you are over 250lbs.
And what's even worse - DMC gets punished for being the strongest guy on the court (see the Kaminsky flop f.e.).
When the ref's want DMC to play through contact - so be it. But than allow contact on both sides of the court and get those whiny PG's and weak stretch guys out of his paint.

Yes I do have purple glasses, but I won't feel ashamed for it.

 

[Kings_on_the_RiSE]

He leads the NBA in free throw attempts.

Okay, maybe I'm over exaggerating in the heat of the moment lol. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt as much as he should though.

 

[Blob]

And what's even worse - DMC gets punished for being the strongest guy on the court (see the Kaminsky flop f.e.).

Yes I do have purple glasses, but I won't feel ashamed for it.

Regarding play with Kaminsky the ref could have made no call, but at same time Boogie infringed upon a players right to be on the floor. If that call was B.S. I would have been making a stink of it as much as anyone, but Boogie obviously invaded his space. He had the ball and instead of going towards the basket he tried to clear space with a shoulder block to his right. That's not a basketball play!

Did Kaminsky overreact to draw the foul? I don't know maybe. If a player is off balance he can go to the ground like that. Though it looks like acting he is not. That play is a good example of the overarching issue which is the physicality with which Boogie plays. I think more often than not when he establishes an advantage on the defender and exploits it he gets the whistle. Otherwise, you are not getting the call!

The important context to keep in mind is that for Boogie or any other player the refs do not want to blow the whistle unless a foul is blatant because it slows the game down and no one wants to see a parade to the free throw line. So when a player is baiting the ref for a foul call instead of getting fouled in context of making a basketball play, he is not going to get rewarded. Boogie should know this by now.

 

[King Baller]

A defender is allowed his space on the floor. A lot of time Boogie's is dislodging a player or initiating contact and looking for a whistle. Refs do not reward this. When Boogie is looking for a call and not getting it, it is often he is imposing upon a guys rights to space on the floor. That's not a foul. That's play on.

As long as a defender is vertical and not jumping into his driving lane the ref is not going to bail out the offense player. You could make the argument Boogie could get a few more calls but I don't really see it. Twice as many? No way.

Blob I don't know what to tell you, except Kings Fans have a long history of being dissatisfied with the Referees calls.

Lets explore where you are on this subject. For example what is your take on the Clippers players and coach interaction with the referees?

 

[dude12]

BS on calling a foul on Cuz on the Kaminsky play. He turned to the basket. He did NOT bury or throw a shoulder at Kaminsky. He turned to the basket and FK flopped. Should have been a no call.

And as far as leading the league in FTA's.....doesn't mean he's not getting fouled on other plays. If I'm the other teams, I foul Boogie on damn near every play and dare the refs to call the foul. It's similar to playing defensive back in football or being a offensive lineman, if you do it, commit an uncalled foul, most plays, it becomes the norm.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Regarding play with Kaminsky the ref could have made no call, but at same time Boogie infringed upon a players right to be on the floor. If that call was B.S. I would have been making a stink of it as much as anyone, but Boogie obviously invaded his space. He had the ball and instead of going towards the basket he tried to clear space with a shoulder block to his right. That's not a basketball play!

Did Kaminsky overreact to draw the foul? I don't know maybe. If a player is off balance he can go to the ground like that. Though it looks like acting he is not. That play is a good example of the overarching issue which is the physicality with which Boogie plays. I think more often than not when he establishes an advantage on the defender and exploits it he gets the whistle. Otherwise, you are not getting the call!

The important context to keep in mind is that for Boogie or any other player the refs do not want to blow the whistle unless a foul is blatant because it slows the game down and no one wants to see a parade to the free throw line. So when a player is baiting the ref for a foul call instead of getting fouled in context of making a basketball play, he is not going to get rewarded. Boogie should know this by now.

Sorry. That's not what I'm watching.
Don't want to slow the game down? Not calling, when a player baits them to do so?
Humm - Jamal Crawford, Steph Curry fall on their back everytime a defender gets close to their jumpshot. Last season a 4 point play was so common, it would make Larry Johnson cringe.
Or take a look at moving screen calls. More often than not the guard will simply run into a typical screen and flop to get the call.

That's what I call baiting calls.

When a center goes up underneath the basket and someone slaps onto his arms and shoulders it's a foul or you allow the same type of contact on every player on the floor. Good luck Steph Curry for trying to be one of the best finishers inside the paint....

 

[Blob]

BS on calling a foul on Cuz on the Kaminsky play. He turned to the basket. He did NOT bury or throw a shoulder at Kaminsky. He turned to the basket and FK flopped. Should have been a no call.

This is factually incorrect. Anyone who watches the replay can see that did not happen. Saying that is what happened makes other points you make that may be valid automatically suspect.

And as far as leading the league in FTA's.....doesn't mean he's not getting fouled on other plays. If I'm the other teams, I foul Boogie on damn near every play and dare the refs to call the foul. It's similar to playing defensive back in football or being a offensive lineman, if you do it, commit an uncalled foul, most plays, it becomes the norm.

The playbook on Boogie is out and not the one you advocate. The strategy is to play him physically, get under his skin, frustrate him. And it works! At least it works when opponents have personnel to match him in strength and length.

Marc Gasol held his position against him and stayed vertical and Boogie was 3-17 FGs.
Mason Plumlee (Leonard) held his position against him and stayed vertical and Boogie was 4-21 FGs.

Both these guys did not go into the game and foul the heck out of him and dare the refs to call the foul! They held their ground in the interior and it worked when Boogie did not have his perimeter shot falling. Boogie is a power player a la LeBron and his power game is less effective when he runs into "brick walls".

Instead of faulting the refs for not bailing him out, the fault is his lack of post game as a counter when his jumper is not falling. Fans miss this because of false narrative that Boogie is classic big man when he is not.

Marc Gasol has post move a la Dirk Nowitski in which he makes contact with the post defender then creates space by stepping back and shooting a little shot off one foot. I think he scored on this move three times last night. Boogie does not have a post move like this or another in his arsenal. He would be well-served to develop one this off-season.

This lack of reliable post move is why he struggles in game like last night, not because refs are out to get him, or because opponents can foul him and get away with it.

 

[Blob]

Blob I don't know what to tell you, except Kings Fans have a long history of being dissatisfied with the Referees calls.

Lets explore where you are on this subject. For example what is your take on the Clippers players and coach interaction with the referees?

I think they complain a lot.

 

[Chubbs]

This is something I was thinking about as well. The Kings, as an organization, should compile all questionable non-calls, controversial physicality etc., and send it to the league for further evaluation. I really feel for Boogie. He doesn't deserve getting mugged with absolutely no sympathy from these refs.

Or the fans, or the announcing crew, who are quick to jump on every foul cousins commits and ignore everything on the other end.

If Cuz gets knocked down, and this specific thing happened last night, Grant's only comment is "Cousins late getting back on D."

Well he got knocked on his ass Grant. Not that you'd notice.

 

[Chubbs]

This is factually incorrect. Anyone who watches the replay can see that did not happen. Saying that is what happened makes other points you make that may be valid automatically suspect.



The playbook on Boogie is out and not the one you advocate. The strategy is to play him physically, get under his skin, frustrate him. And it works! At least it works when opponents have personnel to match him in strength and length.

Marc Gasol held his position against him and stayed vertical and Boogie was 3-17 FGs.
Mason Plumlee (Leonard) held his position against him and stayed vertical and Boogie was 4-21 FGs.

Both these guys did not go into the game and foul the heck out of him and dare the refs to call the foul! They held their ground in the interior and it worked when Boogie did not have his perimeter shot falling. Boogie is a power player a la LeBron and his power game is less effective when he runs into "brick walls".

Instead of faulting the refs for not bailing him out, the fault is his lack of post game as a counter when his jumper is not falling. Fans miss this because of false narrative that Boogie is classic big man when he is not.

Marc Gasol has post move a la Dirk Nowitski in which he makes contact with the post defender then creates space by stepping back and shooting a little shot off one foot. I think he scored on this move three times last night. Boogie does not have a post move like this or another in his arsenal. He would be well-served to develop one this off-season.

This lack of reliable post move is why he struggles in game like last night, not because refs are out to get him, or because opponents can foul him and get away with it.

You want to talk factually incorrect?

How about the claim Cousins has no post moves?

Here's a bunch. Let's stop acting like he's a clueless beast.

http://www.nba.com/kings/blog/how-dominate-post-demarcus

 

[Kings_on_the_RiSE]

Or the fans, or the announcing crew, who are quick to jump on every foul cousins commits and ignore everything on the other end.

If Cuz gets knocked down, and this specific thing happened last night, Grant's only comment is "Cousins late getting back on D."

Well he got knocked on his ass Grant. Not that you'd notice.

I've listened to Grant long enough to know that he isn't too fond of Cousins. I don't know why. Grant is quick to blame Cousins for any slump this team faces, but fails to realize that Cuz is the only consistent bright spot we've had for the past 5 years. It's good to be objective, but at times, it seems Grant is over the top with his criticism. I'm sure the fans and the organization would hate to lose such an amazing talent. It's time we take a stand concerning the physicality against our star player.

 

[Blob]

You want to talk factually incorrect?

How about the claim Cousins has no post moves?

Here's a bunch. Let's stop acting like he's a clueless beast.

http://www.nba.com/kings/blog/how-dominate-post-demarcus

I am aware of his post game without need to watch highlight clips. I have seen every game he has played as a pro. And if you have seen many or fair percentage you likely know Boogie is a power player not a classic low post player with a go-to move.

If he had a half-hook or banker off the glass or turnaround jumper or that Gasol (Dirk) shot as opposed too trying barrel defenders entitled to their space he would have a better counter move against guys like Plumlee and Gasol and Bogut. The power game is great against lightweights but better defenders don't cave to force as readily.

Boogie can still play well against anyone when he is making his face up shot or getting shots in transition but when good defenders take away these opportunities it would be nice if he had more of a post game. He doesn't have one.

 

[Chubbs]

I am aware of his post game without need to watch highlight clips. I have seen every game he has played as a pro. And if you have seen many or fair percentage you likely know Boogie is a power player not a classic low post player with a go-to move.

If he had a half-hook or banker off the glass or turnaround jumper or that Gasol (Dirk) shot as opposed too trying barrel defenders entitled to their space he would have a better counter move against guys like Plumlee and Gasol and Bogut. The power game is great against lightweights but better defenders don't cave to force as readily.

Boogie can still play well against anyone when he is making his face up shot or getting shots in transition but when good defenders take away these opportunities it would be nice if he had more of a post game. He doesn't have one.

He does have a half hook. Stop being condescending. You may have seen every game, but you're seeing what you want I guess. You're not aware of his game. Keep watching I guess. Maybe some day.

I could show you dozens of cousins moves and you'd still say he has no moves. Impervious to facts is hard to argue with.

Not sure what else to day. I guess Boogie got in shape so now it's on to this bizarre fact free argument.

 

[Padrino]

I am aware of his post game without need to watch highlight clips. I have seen every game he has played as a pro. And if you have seen many or fair percentage you likely know Boogie is a power player not a classic low post player with a go-to move.

If he had a half-hook or banker off the glass or turnaround jumper or that Gasol (Dirk) shot as opposed too trying barrel defenders entitled to their space he would have a better counter move against guys like Plumlee and Gasol and Bogut. The power game is great against lightweights but better defenders don't cave to force as readily.

Boogie can still play well against anyone when he is making his face up shot or getting shots in transition but when good defenders take away these opportunities it would be nice if he had more of a post game. He doesn't have one.

he does, and he made use of it repeatedly during his stretch of dominance through january...

 

[Chubbs]

he does, and he made use of it repeatedly during his stretch of dominance through january...

Posted the exact same to him in another thread.

It's a waste of time.

Edit: The same thread. Simultaneously.

 

[dude12]

This is factually incorrect. Anyone who watches the replay can see that did not happen. Saying that is what happened makes other points you make that may be valid automatically suspect.



The playbook on Boogie is out and not the one you advocate. The strategy is to play him physically, get under his skin, frustrate him. And it works! At least it works when opponents have personnel to match him in strength and length.

Marc Gasol held his position against him and stayed vertical and Boogie was 3-17 FGs.
Mason Plumlee (Leonard) held his position against him and stayed vertical and Boogie was 4-21 FGs.

Both these guys did not go into the game and foul the heck out of him and dare the refs to call the foul! They held their ground in the interior and it worked when Boogie did not have his perimeter shot falling. Boogie is a power player a la LeBron and his power game is less effective when he runs into "brick walls".

Instead of faulting the refs for not bailing him out, the fault is his lack of post game as a counter when his jumper is not falling. Fans miss this because of false narrative that Boogie is classic big man when he is not.

Marc Gasol has post move a la Dirk Nowitski in which he makes contact with the post defender then creates space by stepping back and shooting a little shot off one foot. I think he scored on this move three times last night. Boogie does not have a post move like this or another in his arsenal. He would be well-served to develop one this off-season.

This lack of reliable post move is why he struggles in game like last night, not because refs are out to get him, or because opponents can foul him and get away with it.

Haha...the only good thing about your post is your avatar. My points are spot on because I've watched it for years now..... But the reality is that if the refs were to call the game with the same criteria on both sides of the floor, I'd buy your POV but they don't call it with the same criteria on both sides of the floor. Now before you handpick a few plays in which Cuz commits obvious fouls, which he does, show me a stretch of games where Cuz gets the benefit of the call on both sides...cause that ain't happening.

 

[Blob]

He does have a half hook. Stop being condescending. You may have seen every game, but you're seeing what you want I guess. You're not aware of his game. Keep watching I guess. Maybe some day.

I could show you dozens of cousins moves and you'd still say he has no moves. Impervious to facts is hard to argue with.

Not sure what else to day. I guess Boogie got in shape so now it's on to this bizarre fact free argument.

Boogie has a half hook. But he doesn't use it often. And when he does it rarely goes in. I am not being condescending. I love Boogie. But I am not a homer to point I don't see his weakness as a player along with every other Kings player.

A post player will feel for the defender, draw contact (to take away his hops) then create space between himself and defender to get his shot off. He's not looking for a foul he's looking for space in close to get high percentage look See Drummond, McHale, Hakeem and Ewing. Boogie rarely looks to do this. Boogie is looking take space away, get angle or lane and use his forceto finish for a lay-up dunk or and-1. This is not a post game. This is a power game a la Shaq and LeBron.

Rudy has a better post game than Boogie.

 

[bajaden]

he does, and he made use of it repeatedly during his stretch of dominance through january...

Cuz does have a decent post game, but trys to power his way to the basket far too often. A good post game requires patience, and court awareness, along with the proper skill set. I think Cuz has the latter two, but too often doesn't have the first. When he does, he's a far better player. To be a good post player, you have to take what the defense gives you. If you commit early, which many times Cuz does, you automatically neutralize some of your options. To be fair, it's not always Cousins fault. Too often his teammates become spectators instead of cutting to the basket, or moving to the open spot.

I would love to see Cuz get easier shots. I don't think his body will continue to hold up if he keeps trying to bully his way to the basket. I'd love to see Cousins become more Duncan or Gasol like. Neither takes the abuse that Cousins takes, but they still get their points. Cousins has the unique ability to overpower most centers in the league. Every team in the league knows that, and he can use that to his advantage. I think in time, he'll figure it out. I liken him to a boxer with great knock out power, who gets by with that power as he moves up in the ranks. That same boxer becomes a great boxer, and perhaps a champion, when he learns how to box. He starts to pick his spots to use his power. He becomes efficient, and takes fewer hits. But his opponents still fear him because they know he still has the ability to knock them out with one punch.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I just can't understand where the notion is coming from that Cousins lacks post game. His footwork in the post is amazing.
If all that defines a post game is a go to move, than I seem to have a completely different definition of basketball.
Yes Cousins has limits, cause he has trouble finishing over some guys. But I think it's mostly a patience issue and the fact that he once again rolled his ankle.

 

[King Baller]

This is factually incorrect. Anyone who watches the replay can see that did not happen. Saying that is what happened makes other points you make that may be valid automatically suspect.



The playbook on Boogie is out and not the one you advocate. The strategy is to play him physically, get under his skin, frustrate him. And it works! At least it works when opponents have personnel to match him in strength and length.

Marc Gasol held his position against him and stayed vertical and Boogie was 3-17 FGs.
Mason Plumlee (Leonard) held his position against him and stayed vertical and Boogie was 4-21 FGs.

Both these guys did not go into the game and foul the heck out of him and dare the refs to call the foul! They held their ground in the interior and it worked when Boogie did not have his perimeter shot falling. Boogie is a power player a la LeBron and his power game is less effective when he runs into "brick walls".

Instead of faulting the refs for not bailing him out, the fault is his lack of post game as a counter when his jumper is not falling. Fans miss this because of false narrative that Boogie is classic big man when he is not.

Marc Gasol has post move a la Dirk Nowitski in which he makes contact with the post defender then creates space by stepping back and shooting a little shot off one foot. I think he scored on this move three times last night. Boogie does not have a post move like this or another in his arsenal. He would be well-served to develop one this off-season.

This lack of reliable post move is why he struggles in game like last night, not because refs are out to get him, or because opponents can foul him and get away with it.

Well here is the video, you decide. Also you wrote "This lack of reliable post move is why he struggles in game like last night,".


You call scoring 56 points a struggle???

 

[dude12]

Video don't lie......absolutely a flop and terrible call. I just can't fathom how the refs can foul out Cuz on that call. I'll stick with my post from earlier....when the refs use the same criteria for Cuz on both sides of the ball, well, it would be a first.

 

[miltonap]

Video don't lie......absolutely a flop and terrible call. I just can't fathom how the refs can foul out Cuz on that call. I'll stick with my post from earlier....when the refs use the same criteria for Cuz on both sides of the ball, well, it would be a first.

Well maybe they would if he would stop *****in after every play

 

[kingsboi]

Anybody have video? I stopped watching at halftime.

you made it to halftime? I applaud you. I turned it off in the second quarter.