Shams Bomb! Keon Ellis and Dennis Schroder traded to Cleveland in 3 team deal. Kings acquire De’Andre Hunter

[ShastaKingsFan]

Entertaining to read the last 4-5 pages.
I think the biggest thing about the deal is that when we are supposedly in a 5 year window of building, most were not expecting to acquire a vet who is 28. Whether Hunter still has juice left, his shooting is definitely down this year, is secondary to what teams would usually do in a rebuilding window, which is getting younger assets/picks.

The balancing of roster, length , getting rid of Schroder, etc is fine, but this surely doesn’t seem to fit a rebuild.

Yeah, after all the talk about who would potentially fit the "timeline", they traded for a guy who likely doesn't in a proper rebuild,....except if they try to shortcut this. which is what I'm betting on

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Agreed on all this.

I’m not giving him credit on balance. But if he’s cheaply balancing out the roster a bit, even for the short term, I am not going to hammer him for it. At least he’s cleaning up his own mess.

Perhaps Dennis was the price to finally convince Vivek to go through a rebuild?

I guess Lavine wasn't enough

 

[ESP47]

Hunter and his negative VORP will fit in nicely here.

We keep thinking that Perry is going to do something impressive at some point but I'm not so sure that's the case. So far acquiring Cardwell, a hopeful backup C, has been his only positive move. Everything else has been bad, pointless or head scratching up until this point.

Maybe he'll luck into a top 5 pick this year and redeem himself.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Most of the players on this team were acquired and given a contract under Monte. This unbalanced cluster is mostly laid at his feet.

Whether Scott knew Dennis was a disaster and did a Vivek rope-a-dope or not remains to be seen. We shall see what his other moves bring about but so far I like his moves in terms of draft picks and moving up for Clifford.

What we do know is this team is finally off their play-in hopeless treadmill track and for that I am grateful.

I won’t detail what has already been said a million times, but how Monte constructed this team with the idea that Fox and Sabonis could lead to deep playoff runs put this franchise back multiple years. He was the architect of this trainwreck, and now people believe a proper rebuild is to go the way of the Nets?

What Perry must do is hit on the draft, especially this draft. He’s already accomplished more in this last draft than Monte did in any draft outside of getting Keegan at 5. He needs to somehow trade LaVine, DDR, and Sabonis and clean up the mess Monte left behind. Next season, run the offense through our lottery pick like Mavs do with Flagg and go through what will be another rocky season. Also make Keegan a secondary option and command him to take 15-20+ shots a game. Ultimately position us for another lottery pick.

 

[sactowndog]

On this point we do not disagree. However, it doesn't take a genius to lose a sh*tload of games. Scott Perry needs to illustrate that he possesses the competence necessary to get his priorities in place for a rebuild. He had a good draft day last year, but his work in free agency and on the trade block suggests a GM out of his depth thus far. In no world should the Sacramento Kings of 2025-2026 have become older, slower, with less upside, and less room for development. Monte McNair left the Kings in a crummy state, particularly after trading De'Aaron Fox for Zach LaVine. Scott Perry largely made it worse, and you're not convincing me that there's some sort of high-level "rope a dope" happening behind the scenes. The man's trying to figure out how to clean up his off-season mess, and I hope he's prepared to start taking some actual steps forward.

I think the trade for Clifford’s draft rights were good. The Shroeder signing was poor but a plausible explanation does exist.

 

[Padrino]

Hunter and his negative VORP will fit in nicely here.

We keep thinking that Perry is going to do something impressive at some point but I'm not so sure that's the case. So far acquiring Cardwell, a hopeful backup C, has been his only positive move. Everything else has been bad, pointless or head scratching up until this point.

Maybe he'll luck into a top 5 pick this year and redeem himself.

Sometimes that's all it takes. Even poorly run organizations get lucky sometimes. They usually find a way to screw it up in the long run, of course, but a top-5 selection that results in a genuine difference maker can turn the tide even if your GM isn't up for the task of rebuilding properly. I'd just like to see the Kings do better than one playoff appearance in the next 20 years, and draft luck will ultimately play the largest role in whether or not that happens. It's why I'm insistent about acquiring as many future picks as possible.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... Everything about this Keon scenario is bizarre dating right back to why didn't we just extend him when we had the chance? Coach Christie talking about him like he was a favorite child whenever he was brought up by the local media and then letting him rot on the bench will never make sense to me. Russ is a Hall of Famer and has always had his own unique aura as a player so I kindof get why Doug is so deferential to him. But why is Nique Clifford playing more minutes in his rookie season than a player who is both a proven shooter and a proven defender unless some consensus had been reached early in the season that Ellis was on the way out?

Christie's words WRT Ellis and Christie's coaching decisions WRT Ellis suggest one of two things, either:

1. Christie was lying through his teeth, or
2. Christie had higher orders to not play the guy.

 

[Caccia]

Sometimes that's all it takes. Even poorly run organizations get lucky sometimes.

The way the schedule panned out this year, with an insane November and December, followed by a January that was the most difficult in the league, tells me that the NBA front office planned to force Sacramento to rebuild, come hell or high water. There was no earthly reason to schedule all the games with Oklahoma City, Denver, and Minnesota before New Year's. It looks to me like that was deliberate.

 

[Kingster]

I am confused. I won’t fully judge till deadline arrives though. I don’t hate Hunter as a player I’m just confused as to why we didn’t try to move Keon on his own

How do you know they didn't?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Hunter and his negative VORP will fit in nicely here.

We keep thinking that Perry is going to do something impressive at some point but I'm not so sure that's the case. So far acquiring Cardwell, a hopeful backup C, has been his only positive move. Everything else has been bad, pointless or head scratching up until this point.

Maybe he'll luck into a top 5 pick this year and redeem himself.

Remember the report over the summer, was that they were not willing to add Keon to the deal to get Kuminga.

Could have had a full season of development and know exactly where you are with a younger wing in Kuminga

 

[Kingster]

In a box, Dennis+Keon+2nd for Hunter is a decent win for us.

But why are we trying to get better right now? What happened to the rebuild? If we like him, are we really about to send him a 4-80 type deal? Why?? Why are we giving up any draft capital for a "win now" player?

What this screams to me is we think we can be competitive next year. And some of yall really complained about Monte, lol

You can't even begin to assess this move in terms of a rebuild until after the trade deadline. We don't know if other deals are coming and how they affect the overall makeup of the team.

 

[MizzouKing]

Thoughts from the New York Times...

Sacramento, which by all rights should be rebuilding, put themselves on course to be over the luxury tax next season by adding a 28-year old with sore knees while giving up a 26-year-old whose next contract will likely be for half as much

I do hope this turns into Kuminga.

Kings’ trade with Cavaliers shows a lack of foresight and direction

If the Kings are indeed rebuilding, it's hard to see a clear through-line with their recent sequence of moves.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Kingster]

Hunter being a "better player" than Keon is a questionable assertion, at best. He's certainly not a better defender.



This is ice cold comfort, if that's the case. Why should De'Andre Hunter have been a target for this Kings team? What does this move do for... anything? For the possibility of a rebuild? Or even for the possibility of competing? Hunter gets you nowhere, so as I said, unless there are follow-up moves that offer clarity, right now this is just a bunch of rearranging deck chairs. We'll see what Perry has next.

It may give a big FU to GSW, and my petty self would be happy with that.

 

[Kingster]

If Hunter is as you say, why do you think the Kings would stay in last place? It sounds like he just improved the team?

And if Sabonis and DDR are traded for picks and youngins, then what do you think of the Hunter trade? I've been more impatient than most, but I don't understand how a wrecked team can be turned around with one deal. There have to be many deals, and some deals may be just half-way steps leading to another deal.

 

[TaxMan]

RE: the bolded part: Then why don't we just wait a few days until the trade deadline to see if something like that takes place before skewering everyone and everything over what seems to be a preliminary/minor roster-balancing move?

I get it. You want clarity. And as I think you are one of the most intelligent, thoughtful, and respected posters here, I agree with your overall opinion in general.

But I also think you really aren't going to get what you are looking for on this particular move. Nobody is going to come out and say, you know, "getting Dennis was really stupid on my part" (or, as some think is more likely, "getting Dennis was the price we had to pay to finally convince Vivek to actually rebuild"). Nobody will say "Hunter is our backup plan for the rest of this year and then we're using him as an expiring." You as much as anyone should understand that those kinds of statements just aren't happening.

Obtaining a "distressed asset" big at the cost we paid (assuming Keon was already gone for whatever reason, which seems logical) appears to be pretty much a break even or slightly beneficial move on our part to free up PT for some guards and give a little boost to our frontcourt depth. It appears by all accounts he's not going to mess up our drive for the worst record in the league, which is what everyone here is clamoring for. We may have just found Golden State to be impossible to deal with so we pivoted for some shorter-term help in roster balancing.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I think this move is great (heck, or even "good"?). I think it is likely neutral to slightly beneficial, just from a roster balance standpoint if nothing else.

But you're the one who keeps harping that trades are so difficult to make now, with the focus on not giving up FRP and keeping within budget caps, etc., etc. So, a minor trade to get longer and relieve a logjam in the backcourt may be just that (instead of some final keystroke to solving all our ills).

I agree in general with all of this. The problem is that it feels like every thing this team does is predicated on something else happening or some unknown factor we will speculate about but never know (see the Vivek factor). It then feels like a fool me once shame on you, fool me twice…type of situation when scratching my head trying to rationalize every move they make. Kings history in Sac gives me negative evidence in general (KANGZ), and so far I have no confidence in Perry being up to the task. Other than his reputation as a great exec/agent schmoozer, nothing in his history makes me feel like he’s a great basketball mind and the first hand knowledge so far suggests he sucks. His best bit on his resume is association with the Dumars front office that won the Pistons a championship over 20 years ago. I admit he was handed a crap roster, but it does feel like if we get out of this hole with some semblance of optimism on the short end of his 3-5 year rebuild timeline it will be more dumb luck than strategic vision.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Thoughts from the New York Times...

Sacramento, which by all rights should be rebuilding, put themselves on course to be over the luxury tax next season by adding a 28-year old with sore knees while giving up a 26-year-old whose next contract will likely be for half as much

I do hope this turns into Kuminga.

Kings’ trade with Cavaliers shows a lack of foresight and direction

If the Kings are indeed rebuilding, it's hard to see a clear through-line with their recent sequence of moves.

www.nytimes.com

In regards to the tax, we will be under the luxury as long as we cut Deebo (assuming he isn’t traded).

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

And if Sabonis and DDR are traded for picks and youngins, then what do you think of the Hunter trade? I've been more impatient than most, but I don't understand how a wrecked team can be turned around with one deal. There have to be many deals, and some deals may be just half-way steps leading to another deal.

I don't really think anything about the Hunter trade, either way. I was trying to reconcile the notion that the Kings won this trade with the belief that they will still finish in the bottom 5. I don't think that some people here appreciate just how little improvement it would require to go from the worst record in the NBA to the sixth-worst. Like, not really much at all, and if the Kings won this trade, that might about do it.

 

[Kingster]

I agree in general with all of this. The problem is that it feels like every thing this team does is predicated on something else happening or some unknown factor we will speculate about but never know (see the Vivek factor). It then feels like a fool me once shame on you, fool me twice…type of situation when scratching my head trying to rationalize every move they make. Kings history in Sac gives me negative evidence in general (KANGZ), and so far I have no confidence in Perry being up to the task. Other than his reputation as a great exec/agent schmoozer, nothing in his history makes me feel like he’s a great basketball mind and the first hand knowledge so far suggests he sucks. His best bit on his resume is association with the Dumars front office that won the Pistons a championship over 20 years ago. I admit he was handed a crap roster, but it does feel like if we get out of this hole with some semblance of optimism on the short end of his 3-5 year rebuild timeline it will be more dumb luck than strategic vision.

That's because this is actually the case and will continue to be the case in a rebuilding project. The foundation is necessary before the walls go up. The walls have to be up before the electrical conduit is installed. The roof needs to be repaired before the flooring goes in. Etc., etc. And it is very likely that mistakes will be made and there is going to be stuff ripped out again before the rebuilding continues. If Perry is truly in rebuilding mode this is the way it's going to be - very messy.

 

[Kingster]

I don't really think anything about the Hunter trade, either way. I was trying to reconcile the notion that the Kings won this trade with the belief that they will still finish in the bottom 5. I don't think that some people here appreciate just how little improvement it would require to go from the worst record in the NBA to the sixth-worst. Like, not really much at all, and if the Kings won this trade, that might about do it.

I agree with your premise - it wouldn't take much. That said, I can't get concerned/frustrated/angry about this trade in isolation. If other deals aren't made by the trade deadline then I will be all of the above.

 

[ockingsfan]

I don't care about giving or receiving 2nd round picks. I do care we have yet to add any firsts.

Unfortunately, I don't think Keon was ever going to net us a 1st rounder, especially since he will be a free agent this summer and will be getting a bigger contract.

Outside of Keegan, the only Kings player I can see netting us any first rounders in a trade is Sabonis. Everyone else would be player swaps and maybe some 2nd rounders coming back, if we are lucky.

 

[KingsRUs]

In regards to the tax, we will be under the luxury as long as we cut Deebo (assuming he isn’t traded).

And that is very plausible

Deebo and Domas need to not be here post deadline for the tank

Deebo is putting in too much work, and if no one will give us value for him…

 

[iowamcnabb]

And that is very plausible

Deebo and Domas need to not be here post deadline for the tank

Deebo is putting in too much work, and if no one will give us value for him…

To clarify, I meant cut him ( buy him out for the 10 mil) this offseason.

 

[BuddyBuckets]

The real test here is going to be what Keon signs for. If he resigns in Cleveland for anywhere around 3/30, he instantly becomes a great asset that the Kings could have done that over the off-season, and surely gotten more value than we did here. If he signs 3/45, and doesn't progress as a player, then it will be interesting. But I absolutely love his fit next to Donovan and with legit paint defenders, hes going to get a chance to gamble on defense and cause chaos with the luxury of backend protection sac could never provide him.

 

[iowamcnabb]

The real test here is going to be what Keon signs for. If he resigns in Cleveland for anywhere around 3/30, he instantly becomes a great asset that the Kings could have done that over the off-season, and surely gotten more value than we did here. If he signs 3/45, and doesn't progress as a player, then it will be interesting. But I absolutely love his fit next to Donovan and with legit paint defenders, hes going to get a chance to gamble on defense and cause chaos with the luxury of backend protection sac could never provide him.

I’m starting to think he is going to be a rental. Unless the Cavs can salary dump a guy or two they are going to be a second apron team for a second time this year which puts them in danger of triggering the repeater tax (happens if you are a second apron team for 3 out of 4 years). If they sign Keon they are screwed financially.

 

[TaxMan]

That's because this is actually the case and will continue to be the case in a rebuilding project. The foundation is necessary before the walls go up. The walls have to be up before the electrical conduit is installed. The roof needs to be repaired before the flooring goes in. Etc., etc. And it is very likely that mistakes will be made and there is going to be stuff ripped out again before the rebuilding continues. If Perry is truly in rebuilding mode this is the way it's going to be - very messy.

I guess….there are rebuilding moves that are obviously good for the sake of the rebuild, and then there are moves like this (and the Dennis signing in the offseason) that open questions. I’ve yet to see evidence that Perry is thinking two steps ahead and so will at this point judge it in isolation. In isolation this move balances the roster and gets off the partially guaranteed third year of Dennis’ contract (he handed out previously). That really seems to be it. If all we cared about was a rebuild then we would have moved Ellis for draft capital.

With that said, I will give Perry credit if he pulls off another couple moves and the overall plan comes into focus, but right now he doesn’t give off vibes that he’s got a Sam Presti vision.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Dennis was a Scott Perry signing, last summer. If that was a trash contract whose fault is it? The same person who just made this trade.



I did not defend trading away Hali. That was a bitter pill for all of us at the time and I was deeply skeptical of Domas because of his size and perceived defensive shortcomings. It worked out better for us than expected, but it turns out it was another short-term move that peaked quickly and had negative long-term effects.

Monte was not the best GM ever but he had one thing that none of these other Kings GM's have had since Geoff Petrie -- he consistently identified NBA talent in the draft. As a small market team we simply cannot survive without that skill which is why I continue to defend him. And I will also go to bat for any coach or player who is a plus defender and/or cares about defense. It's why I'm still willing to give Doug Christie the benefit of the doubt too.

And I certainly did not defend Monte for making that LaVine trade which is where most of the roster damage was done. All Scott Perry had to do this past off-season was re-sign Keon Ellis and not trade Jonas Valanciunas. If Doug had played those two players starter's minutes instead of Westbrook and LaVine we wouldn't be a dumpster fire of a team right now. And there's a decent

I’m starting to think he is going to be a rental. Unless the Cavs can salary dump a guy or two they are going to be a second apron team for a second time this year which puts them in danger of triggering the repeater tax (happens if you are a second apron team for 3 out of 4 years). If they sign Keon they are screwed financially.

I also think he will.be a rental. But either way its no longer our concern. Ellis is a specialist.
If he came in just 10lbs bigger it woild make all the difference. Instead I think he lost weight in off-season lol.

I swear I believe Carter can be better than him if just given a chance.

Please kings.

Also I lile Sabonis, I domt want him traded. I love his game and hard work.

Deebo must be traded or cut. Westbrook too.

Other than that im good. Hunter adds size and is a amazing 3pt shooter. Man averaging 16 on a good cavs team on his worst season of his career. Otherwise you dont get him for Ellis.

I reall6 wanted Kaminga too, but im sick of begging the warriors for there bench player

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

The real test here is going to be what Keon signs for. If he resigns in Cleveland for anywhere around 3/30, he instantly becomes a great asset that the Kings could have done that over the off-season, and surely gotten more value than we did here. If he signs 3/45, and doesn't progress as a player, then it will be interesting...

This seems like the sort of qualifier that is designed to put the most positive, pro-Kings spin on the trade possible... What if he signs for 3/45 and does progress as a player? I mean, on a scale of 1-10, how confident are you that this organization maximized Ellis' potential?

 

[origkds]

Personally, I'm willing to try anything if it makes the games even 1% more watchable.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Unfortunately, I don't think Keon was ever going to net us a 1st rounder, especially since he will be a free agent this summer and will be getting a bigger contract.

Outside of Keegan, the only Kings player I can see netting us any first rounders in a trade is Sabonis. Everyone else would be player swaps and maybe some 2nd rounders coming back, if we are lucky.

Maybe not a 1st, but what about a younger wing with higher upside for a rebuild. Sounds like they could have had Kuminga before the season started, but they were not willing to add Keon to the deal

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The real test here is going to be what Keon signs for. If he resigns in Cleveland for anywhere around 3/30, he instantly becomes a great asset that the Kings could have done that over the off-season, and surely gotten more value than we did here. If he signs 3/45, and doesn't progress as a player, then it will be interesting. But I absolutely love his fit next to Donovan and with legit paint defenders, hes going to get a chance to gamble on defense and cause chaos with the luxury of backend protection sac could never provide him.

Yup. He's likely going to make the Kings look like the fools that they always are....and excuses will be made to try to justify it