Scott Perry is the new GM of Sacramento Kings

[SacTownKid]

Stauskus!!!!!!

I get the point but sorry, that was longer than 7-8 years ago. To Viveks credit it seemed like he took a step away from the ledge after that era. Good lord. It was that long ago? lol.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

It could have been total luck but no. Vlade didn't trade Cuz for total win now. He drafted Fox, and yes, F'd it up with FA signings and coaching hires but the Kings were pretty close to rebuild level. Vlade even kind of made sense with the Barnes move. He saved cap space and traded his own mistakes for a much better player. All we can do now is hope that Vivek learned something? If not, yeah, we as fans are SCREWED, lol.

I was more referencing the 2018 draft, which we're coming up on 7 years ago. Getting the #2 pick in that draft, was like the ultimate gift.....and they blew it. Some of us knew they had made a catastrophic mistake as soon as the pick was announced. Add that on top of everything else that happened.

 

[SacTownKid]

I was more referencing the 2018 draft, which we're coming up on 7 years ago. Getting the #2 pick in that draft, was like the ultimate gift.....and they blew it. Some of us knew they had made a catastrophic mistake as soon as the pick was announced. Add that on top of everything else that happened.

The Kings f'd that up with development though, which is total sign of a mid franchise for sure. IIRC everyone on this board was pretty consensus but Bagley was a top 3 notable. Vlade saw the wrong talent in his potential though and then didn't commit to Bagley being productive and instead made him a bench big. For no reason in the end.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The Kings f'd that up with development though, which is total sign of a mid franchise for sure. IIRC everyone on this board was pretty consensus but Bagley was a top 3 notable. Vlade saw the wrong talent in his potential though and then didn't commit to Bagley being productive and instead made him a bench big. For no reason in the end.

Bagley has been a limited after thought for every team that has acquired him

 

[SacTownKid]

Bagley has been a limited after thought for every team that has acquired him

And for anyone that has watched BBall for long that is far from a shocker. Bagley is a limited player. The goal with any top pick is to shine them up and even if they suck, dump them on someone else for value. The Kings didn't do that with player like him nor TRob. The reality is they both produced. Not in terms of wins but in terms of productivity. Therein lies the game of trading a paper clip for an eraser.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

And for anyone that has watched BBall for long that is far from a shocker. Bagley is a limited player. The goal with any top pick is to shine them up and even if they suck, dump them on someone else for value. The Kings didn't do that with player like him nor TRob. The reality is they both produced. Not in terms of wins but in terms of productivity. Therein lies the game of trading a paper clip for an eraser.

This circles back to the ultimate problem for any chance at a semi patient attempt at developing a playoff competitive team.

 

[iowamcnabb]

And for anyone that has watched BBall for long that is far from a shocker. Bagley is a limited player. The goal with any top pick is to shine them up and even if they suck, dump them on someone else for value. The Kings didn't do that with player like him nor TRob. The reality is they both produced. Not in terms of wins but in terms of productivity. Therein lies the game of trading a paper clip for an eraser.

I’m by no means a draft expert but I remember going back and watching tape of Bagley after it was becoming clear we were going to draft him and I just couldn’t see it in him. He looked like a high end garbage man in college and I didn’t see how it would translate. Of course I did the purple colored glasses thing and try to convince myself that my eyes were deceiving me, especially after that summer league game. I personally thought it was fine we had him coming off the bench, his dad was the problem there. In the end I don’t think any of it mattered because he is who is is.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I’m by no means a draft expert but I remember going back and watching tape of Bagley after it was becoming clear we were going to draft him and I just couldn’t see it in him. He looked like a high end garbage man in college and I didn’t see how it would translate. Of course I did the purple colored glasses thing and try to convince myself that my eyes were deceiving me, especially after that summer league game. I personally thought it was fine we had him coming off the bench, his dad was the problem there. In the end I don’t think any of it mattered because he is who is is.

Rule of thumb is never choose a player that high in an NBA draft, whose best attribute is jumping. Take the player with an NBA skill set

 

[hrdboild]

Rule of thumb is never choose a player that high in an NBA draft, whose best attribute is jumping. Take the player with an NBA skill set

...and stop assuming that athleticism and length will translate into above-average defense in the NBA when we have ample evidence by now showing that it isn't true. Many of the league's best defenders have subpar length and athleticism but they make up for that with preparation, anticipation, functional strength, and the desire and determination to outwork everyone else. These are all qualities that can be scouted.

 

[NewArena]

Really looking forward to the press conference tomorrow. A hopefully fresh perspective and appreciation for the talent we do have, is what I’m hoping for.

 

[Warhawk]

I think we're confusing 2 points here.

1. I think Doug is a pretty reasonable HC candidate. He looked overmatched at times last year, but looked great at other things too. Think he did keep that locker room together in a tumultuous time.

2. What I (and I assume pretty much everyone else here) is worried about is who is making the decision to keep Christie. We already know that this Perry move has been in motion for weeks; because he was hired 12 hours after Monte was fired. Already heard reports that Vivek is the one who wanted Christie installed, wanted DDR and obivously wanted LaVine. And when you bring in a new regime, you want the guy in charge to have the full freedom to bring on whatever staff/coach he wants. I don't want to have to question a move if we attribute it to Perry making the call or Vivek. If Vivek is truly back to fully meddling into day-to-day operations, we're toast. Simple as that.

This isn't directed at you - you just sparked the thought.

We have no idea how long Perry has been in discussion with Vivek - we assume weeks but what if it has been much longer? What if Perry didn't want Brown but was OK with trying out Doug in the short term? I'm sure stranger things have happened...

I know, I know, highly unlikely. But the point is, we have no idea who has discussed what or what will happen in the offseason. Doug could be relieved of duty next week. He could be kept on. Until we actually know anything and hear what the new GM has to say, why don't we quit getting our undies in a bunch and let things play out?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

This isn't directed at you - you just sparked the thought.

We have no idea how long Perry has been in discussion with Vivek - we assume weeks but what if it has been much longer? What if Perry didn't want Brown but was OK with trying out Doug in the short term? I'm sure stranger things have happened...

If that were the case, it would basically mean that the owner willingly turned McNair into a lame duck GM, while in the process of trading away their franchise player. Not a good scenario

 

[Jdbraver137]

If that were the case, it would basically mean that the owner willingly turned McNair into a lame duck GM, while in the process of trading away their franchise player. Not a good scenario

It could be if he is indeed focused on tanking and rebuilding. The other problem is that he doesn’t hire competent FO folks.will he finally commit to a full rebuild or is he happy with status quo of competeing for the play-in.

 

[sactowndog]

...and stop assuming that athleticism and length will translate into above-average defense in the NBA when we have ample evidence by now showing that it isn't true. Many of the league's best defenders have subpar length and athleticism but they make up for that with preparation, anticipation, functional strength, and the desire and determination to outwork everyone else. These are all qualities that can be scouted.

you really think athleticism and length don’t matter in terms of defense?


All-Defensive First Team

Evan Mobley, Cleveland Cavaliers
Evan Mobley's standing reach is 9'0" (9 feet). This means that when he's standing tall, his fingertips can reach a height of 9 feet. He also has a wingspan of 7'4"

Draymond Green, Golden State Warriors
Draymond Green's standing reach is 8 feet 9 inches. He also has a wingspan of 7 feet 1.25 inches.

Rudy Gobert, Minnesota Timberwolves
Rudy Gobert's standing reach has been measured at 9 feet 7 inches, which is considered a record-breaking standing reach for the NBA Draft Combine.

Amen Thompson, Houston Rockets
Amen Thompson has a standing reach of 8' 7.50". This measurement was taken at the 2023 NBA Draft Combine. He also has a height of 6' 5.75" and a wingspan of 7' 0".

Lu Dort, Oklahoma City Thunder
Dort at a +1 is the only one without significant +4 length. Luguentz Dort's standing reach is 8 feet 3.5 inches.

 

[sactowndog]

I think it has been acknowledged by media that Vivek preferred to continue to go with Christie and Monte wanted to find another coach and that lead to their decision to part ways (among I'm sure other disagreements).

That alone does not mean Vivek is wrong, if the players want Christie. Just because a new boss comes in doesn't mean you fire the next guy down immediately. Some of the worst managers I have ever had have done exactly that, demanding to put their people in place right away. They never last. Maybe Perry and Vivek at least seeing eye to eye on a few things will lead to Perry having more sway if things go sideways.

We may not like that Fox returned Zach but we also know San Antonio didn't really seem to put forth anything of substance and prioritized getting rid of bad contracts to take him in. You can blame Vivek for that or you can blame Fox. I choose the latter. As for how we got there, that blame gets passed around, Fox, Brown, Monte, Wes, Vivek, nobody is blameless.

But I can't help but feel like by demanding a coach change as proof of who is in control, a lot of folks are actually rooting for chaos while claiming Vivek is the chaos agent.

We don’t know what alternatives to Zach were out there. We know Vivek wanted Zach and Monte didn’t. I think it further reinforces my point the Zach trade was like some guy putting together a fantasy team because it was some guy (Vivek) putting together a fantasy team.

it was a terrible trade.

 

[Warhawk]

We don’t know what alternatives to Zach were out there. We know Vivek wanted Zach and Monte didn’t. I think it further reinforces my point the Zach trade was like some guy putting together a fantasy team because it was some guy (Vivek) putting together a fantasy team.

it was a terrible trade.

It may have been the best of all options. Keeping Fox really wasn't an option at that point. He said he wouldn't re-sign with Brown gone. He'd tanked the market with the SA talk. No other team would give up anything of worth for a short-term rental with Fox building a home in Texas already.

I'm not saying that there wasn't a better option, but it would not surprise me in the least if this was indeed the best of them, despite the team's long-standing desire to have Levine. Doesn't mean you have to like it.

 

[ockingsfan]

I was more referencing the 2018 draft, which we're coming up on 7 years ago. Getting the #2 pick in that draft, was like the ultimate gift.....and they blew it. Some of us knew they had made a catastrophic mistake as soon as the pick was announced. Add that on top of everything else that happened.

The irony of that Luka draft was that all signs pointed to Vivek wanting Luka. He probably heard all the grumblings that he was a meddling owner and stepped back to allow the FO to make the call.

In the end, he allowed Vlade and Brandon Williams (with Williams seemingly the one making the call) to make the pick that year. And the rest is KANGZ history.

Had Vivek kept meddling, and not relinquished control to the FO that year, we could have been sitting pretty with Luka as the face of the franchise.

 

[iowamcnabb]

One hour until we hear from new GM Scovek Ranaperry.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

We don’t know what alternatives to Zach were out there. We know Vivek wanted Zach and Monte didn’t. I think it further reinforces my point the Zach trade was like some guy putting together a fantasy team because it was some guy (Vivek) putting together a fantasy team.

it was a terrible trade.

It may have been the best of all options. Keeping Fox really wasn't an option at that point. He said he wouldn't re-sign with Brown gone. He'd tanked the market with the SA talk. No other team would give up anything of worth for a short-term rental with Fox building a home in Texas already.

I'm not saying that there wasn't a better option, but it would not surprise me in the least if this was indeed the best of them, despite the team's long-standing desire to have Levine. Doesn't mean you have to like it.

I think it's safe to say that Vivek wanted to at least get a player to keep competing and Monte probably said we built this team around Fox - something that has been true since before Monte arrived and we picked Marvin - and so trading Fox meant it was time to do a full reset.

Both are not wrong. Vivek feels that he owes it to STH and to a lesser extent the players right now to try to be competitive. Monte was thinking long term and stacking lottery odds knowing the current product and probably the next few years products will suck to get there. But it's also a cheat code for GMs to say they are going to measure their next few years of success based on their ability to lose and trade their best players for lottery balls.

Most of us can see the long term strategy but I still think most fans don't want to pay good money to see a losing product. This is something the NBA needs to figure out a solution to.

 

[sactowndog]

I think it's safe to say that Vivek wanted to at least get a player to keep competing and Monte probably said we built this team around Fox - something that has been true since before Monte arrived and we picked Marvin - and so trading Fox meant it was time to do a full reset.

Both are not wrong. Vivek feels that he owes it to STH and to a lesser extent the players right now to try to be competitive. Monte was thinking long term and stacking lottery odds knowing the current product and probably the next few years products will suck to get there. But it's also a cheat code for GMs to say they are going to measure their next few years of success based on their ability to lose and trade their best players for lottery balls.

Most of us can see the long term strategy but I still think most fans don't want to pay good money to see a losing product. This is something the NBA needs to figure out a solution to.

I think Monte was thinking we already have Keon and we are small and thin on the front line. Supposedly Monte had a trade that would have brought Cam Johnson.

Vivek wanted the flashier name that didn’t fit and tied up cap space.

 

[ockingsfan]

I think Monte was thinking we already have Keon and we are small and thin on the front line. Supposedly Monte had a trade that would have brought Cam Johnson.

Vivek wanted the flashier name that didn’t fit and tied up cap space.

I don't recall hearing any rumors that we were close to getting Cam Johnson? The Nets wanted at least 2 first round picks for him and I don't know that would had been a good trade, considering we were still a borderline play-in team even with Fox.

 

[ockingsfan]

Both are not wrong. Vivek feels that he owes it to STH and to a lesser extent the players right now to try to be competitive. Monte was thinking long term and stacking lottery odds knowing the current product and probably the next few years products will suck to get there. But it's also a cheat code for GMs to say they are going to measure their next few years of success based on their ability to lose and trade their best players for lottery balls.

Most of us can see the long term strategy but I still think most fans don't want to pay good money to see a losing product. This is something the NBA needs to figure out a solution to.

True. GMs must love when their owners tell them to tank to get those lottery balls. Takes virtually all the pressure off of them for many years. An owner that wants to stay competitive and take the next step (however how unrealistic) will be much harder to please.

I think in the end, Vivek probably let Monte do his own thing for a few years and we got the Beam Team year. After that, Monte kinda sat on his hands for too long and Vivek probably got inpatient and forced some changes (i.e. firing Brown, hiring DC and getting LaVine when Fox forced his way out). Clearly, Monte and Vivek no longer saw eye to eye and when that happens, the owner always wins.

 

[hrdboild]

you really think athleticism and length don’t matter in terms of defense?


All-Defensive First Team

Evan Mobley, Cleveland Cavaliers
Evan Mobley's standing reach is 9'0" (9 feet). This means that when he's standing tall, his fingertips can reach a height of 9 feet. He also has a wingspan of 7'4"

Draymond Green, Golden State Warriors
Draymond Green's standing reach is 8 feet 9 inches. He also has a wingspan of 7 feet 1.25 inches.

Rudy Gobert, Minnesota Timberwolves
Rudy Gobert's standing reach has been measured at 9 feet 7 inches, which is considered a record-breaking standing reach for the NBA Draft Combine.

Amen Thompson, Houston Rockets
Amen Thompson has a standing reach of 8' 7.50". This measurement was taken at the 2023 NBA Draft Combine. He also has a height of 6' 5.75" and a wingspan of 7' 0".

Lu Dort, Oklahoma City Thunder
Dort at a +1 is the only one without significant +4 length. Luguentz Dort's standing reach is 8 feet 3.5 inches.

I didn't say that they don't matter. What I said is that having exceptional length and/or athleticism will not automatically make a player into a good defender, as has often been the assumption in pre-draft talk. For every one of the 5 guys you mentioned there are 100+ current or former players with the exact same size and comparable athletic ability who are/were poor NBA defenders. In the context of this discussion, Marvin Bagley III had the athletic tools and the length but he did not make the most of them and you could see even in college that he had a poor approach to defense.

We've already had this discussion before -- probably multiple times -- so I don't want to get too far into it. To summarize, I used to care a lot about wingspan and standing reach when looking at prospects like you do. Over the years I've slowly become convinced that the measurements are only a small part of the picture. Now I look more closely at how they play defense (are they aggressive or reactionary, do they sit back or crowd ball-handlers, are they effective flying in from the weak side, do they close out under control, etc.) Then I look at what the numbers say about their impact on team defense. And the biggest thing is that I pay a lot of attention to interviews -- how they describe their process and what they choose to focus on. In every one of those areas I gave Marvin Bagley III a failing grade pre-draft.

 

[Jdbraver137]

I didn't say that they don't matter. What I said is that having exceptional length and/or athleticism will not automatically make a player into a good defender, as has often been the assumption in pre-draft talk. For every one of the 5 guys you mentioned there are 100+ current or former players with the exact same size and comparable athletic ability who are/were poor NBA defenders. In the context of this discussion, Marvin Bagley III had the athletic tools and the length but he did not make the most of them and you could see even in college that he had a poor approach to defense.

We've already had this discussion before -- probably multiple times -- so I don't want to get too far into it. To summarize, I used to care a lot about wingspan and standing reach when looking at prospects like you do. Over the years I've slowly become convinced that the measurements are only a small part of the picture. Now I look more closely at how they play defense (are they aggressive or reactionary, do they sit back or crowd ball-handlers, are they effective flying in from the weak side, do they close out under control, etc.) Then I look at what the numbers say about their impact on team defense. And the biggest thing is that I pay a lot of attention to interviews -- how they describe their process and what they choose to focus on. In every one of those areas I gave Marvin Bagley III a failing grade pre-draft.

Hopefully Perry finds us a Ben Wallace lol

 

[Warhawk]

Hopefully Perry finds us a Ben Wallace lol

Hopefully one that can hit his FT, though.

 

[Jdbraver137]

Hopefully one that can hit his FT, though.

There are no perfect players, and the closer they are the more they go to large markets.

 

[SacTownKid]

I didn't say that they don't matter. What I said is that having exceptional length and/or athleticism will not automatically make a player into a good defender, as has often been the assumption in pre-draft talk. For every one of the 5 guys you mentioned there are 100+ current or former players with the exact same size and comparable athletic ability who are/were poor NBA defenders. In the context of this discussion, Marvin Bagley III had the athletic tools and the length but he did not make the most of them and you could see even in college that he had a poor approach to defense.

We've already had this discussion before -- probably multiple times -- so I don't want to get too far into it. To summarize, I used to care a lot about wingspan and standing reach when looking at prospects like you do. Over the years I've slowly become convinced that the measurements are only a small part of the picture. Now I look more closely at how they play defense (are they aggressive or reactionary, do they sit back or crowd ball-handlers, are they effective flying in from the weak side, do they close out under control, etc.) Then I look at what the numbers say about their impact on team defense. And the biggest thing is that I pay a lot of attention to interviews -- how they describe their process and what they choose to focus on. In every one of those areas I gave Marvin Bagley III a failing grade pre-draft.

Amen to all of that. The rules on length have kind of been around forever. If you are a guard, wingspan is valuable. For a shotblocker, standing reach. It's common sense. One player plays on the ball in horizontal space, the other plays in vertical space at the rim. In the end it never stopped great defenders because if you can't move your feet, you're going to have limitations. Rebounding has always been the same way. It's not a coincidence there has been plenty of great rebounders that were "undersized" for their position. They were quicker and had a lower center of gravity that allowed them to push players under the rim. Rodman, Barkley, Fortson, our own Brockness monster, you name it.

 

[Warhawk]

This isn't directed at you - you just sparked the thought.

We have no idea how long Perry has been in discussion with Vivek - we assume weeks but what if it has been much longer? What if Perry didn't want Brown but was OK with trying out Doug in the short term? I'm sure stranger things have happened...

I know, I know, highly unlikely. But the point is, we have no idea who has discussed what or what will happen in the offseason. Doug could be relieved of duty next week. He could be kept on. Until we actually know anything and hear what the new GM has to say, why don't we quit getting our undies in a bunch and let things play out?

I think on 1140 they were just saying that Perry has been talking with Vivek for the last 3 months?

Did I hear that right? I was working with the radio on in the background and may have misinterpreted. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I think Monte was thinking we already have Keon and we are small and thin on the front line. Supposedly Monte had a trade that would have brought Cam Johnson.

Vivek wanted the flashier name that didn’t fit and tied up cap space.

So we could’ve went into the season with Cam, Keegan, and Barnes starting on the wing smh

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I don't recall hearing any rumors that we were close to getting Cam Johnson? The Nets wanted at least 2 first round picks for him and I don't know that would had been a good trade, considering we were still a borderline play-in team even with Fox.

Pretty sure it was at draft time for our first only and management told them to take players that Cam was coming