SAR Fails Physical

[nbrans]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I "like" Elton Brand, but if you told me that I got to choose between trading for Brand and signing Abdur-Rahim as a free agent, it's a no-brainer to me; they're both undersized PF's, but at least Brand will play defense. At least Brand will give you hustle. At least he doesn't play soft.

Your McGrady and Garnett comparisons are flawed, but especially the Garnett one. They would only be valid if those players had never led a team into the playoffs. One year of poor performance, following several years of consistently leading his team to the playoffs is an aberration, not a trend. LeBron James could potentially be a valid comparison, but I'm willing to give James a couple more years to see whether or not he can lead a team to the playoffs. Abdur-Rahim has been in the league for nine years, and he's never been on a team that got particularly close.

You may be correct in the sense that Abdur-Rahim may be a "good player never in the right situation," as opposed to a "good stat guy on a bad team," but good players that are looking for the right fit always seem to have at least one distinguishing characteristic or specific set of talents that makes GM's want to take a chance on him (Webber, Hughes) or, as happens more often, a talented player has to sit behind another talented player (O'Neal, Wallace, McGrady, Redd, Nash, Randolph). Abdur-Rahim has not shown to have said skill set. Perhaps he simply hasn't had a chance to show how great he can be, but seeing as how he's had the chance to be "the man" on two different teams, and couldn't make it happen, I somehow doubt it.

I'm clearly not as enamored of Abdur-Rahim's passing as you are; he hasn't shown that he's particularly good at passing out of a double team or finding cutters. I also don't agree that he would be able to fit into the Kings system easily; his stats seem to indicate that he's a lesser version of Elton Brand rather than a lesser version of Chris Webber. Webber was valuable to the Kings system, not only because he could pass, but because he could generate offense for his teammates out of the high post. Abdur-Rahim has never demonstrated that he has such a skill, and while Miller might be, he's also not good enough in the low post for him to play that role in our system.

Instead of what seems to me to be some kind of desperate need to find players to fit into our "system," I believe that the system has run its course, and that we need to retool our offense. I think that we should look for players that address our weaknesses, and not concern ourselves so much with trying to prop up our old method.

And, as far as the part of your quote that I didn't address, I still wouldn't try to sign Abdur-Rahim, unless he can be signed for a portion of the MLE, or perhaps a sign-and-trade for Songaila. I think that he's going to cost too much money for what role he would best serve on this team, specifically, coming off the bench.

I think you make valid points, and I think we're a lot closer to "agree to disagree territory." Regardless of how specifically applicable my examples were, the broader point remains that you can't judge a player by how his teams have done in the past. Abdur-Rahim has never played with a good team. You're right, even players who are good but are in a bad situation show potential and a skill set, and while the jury is probably out on which type of player SAR is (we'll see this coming year), I would argue that the fact that he's a multi-talented player and a good citizen means that he could probably fit in with a good team. But we'll have to see on that.

As for his passing, I think my assessment is based more on watching him play -- it's clear from his stats that he's not a high-assist guy, but then, he's always been Option #1 on offense and that wouldn't be the case in Sacramento -- he'd be expected to pass more. So yeah, I guess the jury's still out on that one too. I do think he'd be perfectly suited for the high post since he can hit the jumper or take it to the hoop.

I think it's a tad drastic to say that we need a change of system, the "system" almost took the Kings to the chamiponship. If the core changes then absolutely, it's time to change the system and adapt to the players on hand. And I'm not adverse to changing the core at all, in fact I'd be the first one to shake Bibby's hand out the door, I'm tired of him not playing any defense.

But even if the core changes or the style changes, players like SAR are always valuable becuase he can do so many different things. He can play the three or the four, he can play outside and inside and he can rebound. He'll find a way to help the team. As we both agree, it remains to be seen if he can fit in with a good team. But as it stands right now he's a killer bargain, and I'm all for being the team that gives him a chance.

P.S. The benefit of signing SAR is that you can sign him AND trade for someone like Brand, and you're twice as well off. I don't understand why people say that they'd rather trade for a PF than sign SAR as if they're mutually exclusive. You can do both!!

 

[kingsofnba]

i wouldn't write off the possiblity of getting SAR just yet... the nets still have not made an official announcement that they completed the trade for SAR... they have until midnight tuesday to use their trade exception, and it is now monday at 7pm in New Jersey and no official announcement... there is a possibility that SAR and the Nets couldn't reconcile their differences and the Nets are trying to find a three way trade partner to save their trade exemption and get something in return....

i wouldn't count out petrie making a move on SAR until their is an official announcement from the Nets management themselves, not just their local newspaper...

 

[whozit]

And, as far as the part of your quote that I didn't address, I still wouldn't try to sign Abdur-Rahim, unless he can be signed for a portion of the MLE, or perhaps a sign-and-trade for Songaila. I think that he's going to cost too much money for what role he would best serve on this team, specifically, coming off the bench.

I agree with the line of thinking captain bill articulated. I also advocated getting SAR when we were making predictions of the starting day lineup. However, when advocating that, it was on the assumption that it would be a S&T with Portland. If the Kings use the MLE on SAR, they are probably limiting themselves to back-up centers in the catagory of Santiago and Diop. That makes me nervous.

If the team gets SAR, I would hope it will be some sort of three way trade with NJ leaving the mid-level for defensive minded backups.

 

[AleksandarN]

I read it.

Here's the thing. I AGREE that the Kings should get better on defense. The Kings need to acquire defensively oriented players. The Kings need to do everything in their power to get better defensively.

But here's the other thing. That player that you want, that power forward that is going to knock people to the ground and play super awesome defense and block a million shots and get 20 rebounds and help the Kings win the championship is not coming to the Kings via free agency. I hate it, you hate it, it sucks, but that's the reality. But there's such a thing as "cutting your losses." And sometimes you have to suck it up and try and add a FORMER ALL-STAR for cheap, even if his name is not Kevin Garnett.

So everything you and Brick are saying is fantabulous in theory. But I'm living in reality, and that reality includes a realization that Shareef Abdur-Rahim is about as good as the Kings can do right now with the MLE.

None of this even precludes trading for Tyson Chandler or Kevin Garnett or the ghost of Bill Russell!! It's never, ever, never a bad thing to add talent, especially when it's affordable.

So, in conclusion, you're right. I agree with you. Defense = awesome. Now let's get back to reality and realize that Shareef Abdur-Rahim is about as good as we can do now, so while you all are busy shouting and crying about how he's not Kevin Garnett I'm crossing my fingers and hoping the Kings can still get him.

Reread what I posted earlier that you dissmissed. I gave you the answer about why it is not right way to go it you want to get better defensively.

 

[Jerryaki]

man, you guys made my work day go by MUCH faster. thanks!

 

[kingsofnba]

i wouldn't write off the possiblity of getting SAR just yet... the nets still have not made an official announcement that they completed the trade for SAR... they have until midnight tuesday to use their trade exception, and it is now monday at 7pm in New Jersey and no official announcement... there is a possibility that SAR and the Nets couldn't reconcile their differences and the Nets are trying to find a three way trade partner to save their trade exemption and get something in return....

i wouldn't count out petrie making a move on SAR until their is an official announcement from the Nets management themselves, not just their local newspaper...

the SAR deal with the Nets is still on hold and they are running out of time... midnight is the deadline... don't be surprised if GP jumps in with a last minute 3 way deal to land SAR.... the decision will be made my midnight (EST) tonight....

 

[Ryle]

Has SAR already signed the contract with Portland???

I know this is a sign and trade and if NJ backs out then would Portland be stuck with him???

Should be an interesting afternoon

 

[whozit]

Has SAR already signed the contract with Portland???

I know this is a sign and trade and if NJ backs out then would Portland be stuck with him???

Should be an interesting afternoon

I think this has already been discussed. If NJ backs out, then SAR is a unrestricted FA again.

As a side note, NJ took its time making the original signing official and this delay may just be along that lines.

 

[nbrans]

The crickets are still chirping out there on the Shareef Abdur-Rahim thing. Does this mean that New Jersey is trying to swing a deal or are they just stalling? So weird...

 

[funkykingston]

Has SAR already signed the contract with Portland???

I know this is a sign and trade and if NJ backs out then would Portland be stuck with him???

Should be an interesting afternoon

Sign-and-trades are essentially ONE transaction, and can't be separated.

 

[VF21]

Or maybe it's just not considered breaking news.

It's not weird at all, actually. Although those of us on message boards tend to live and die, eat and sleep, and even breathe basketball, some people actually have other things to do ...

Add the fact that SAR is not exactly Shaq, and I don't think it's unusual not have hourly bulletins about his status.

 

[Jerryaki]

Or maybe it's just not considered breaking news.

and I don't think it's unusual not have hourly bulletins about his status.

ah, true true, but espn is so desperate for things to run right now that they're waiting for this just like we are. and then of course they'll turn one story into 10 articles like they always do.

 

[thesanityannex]

SAR trade not going to happen. Nets revoke.

 

[Rowdyone]

Grant's reporting on his show the SAR's agent and GP have already talked and both have expressed mutual desire for him to be a King. Since he's a FA now and would probably balk at our MLE GP may have to find a team to trade with in a three way. Wonder how this will play out?

 

[VF21]

I'm going to close this thread as we now have a more recent, very active thread about SAR...

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6999&page=5