Salmons Has Got To Go!

[Kingster]

Not for the same reason Beno and Brad have to go. But he's GOT TO GO! He's too old to be in the youth movement. And he's been playing waaaay to good not to have a high trade value. This isn't the time to get sentimental and keep him because he's our best player on the floor. This is the time for cold, hard Spach-like logic. This is the time to say thanks for playing great, thanks for being the only consistent scorer we have, thanks for being the best defender on the floor. Thanks, and you are being traded for young talent and/or picks so that we can have a core of younger talented players that in a couple of years can do great things. Salmons has GOT TO GO!

 

[CWebb85]

Not for the same reason Beno and Brad have to go. But he's GOT TO GO! He's too old to be in the youth movement. And he's been playing waaaay to good not to have a high trade value. This isn't the time to get sentimental and keep him because he's our best player on the floor. This is the time for cold, hard Spach-like logic. This is the time to say thanks for playing great, thanks for being the only consistent scorer we have, thanks for being the best defender on the floor. Thanks, and you are being traded for young talent and/or picks so that we can have a core of younger talented players that in a couple of years can do great things. Salmons has GOT TO GO!

Even though I really enjoy Salmons, you are completely right. We should be able to use him as trade bait to rebuild and get more time for Donte to shine or someone else.

 

[wonjaeyou]

Its really sad thing to say, but you are right.

 

[Jechtsphere]

I agree, we should be able to get some good stuff back for him too, he's been pretty damn good all season and the last few games has been nailing shots.

Depends what Petrie wants to actually do.

 

[theclash4u5]

What?! No! Could you imagine how many games we would have won so far if it wasn't for Salmons? MAYBE 2-3? The guy is playing AMAZING, and other than Cisco, has been our main option on offense! Salmons' value to the Kings >>> Salmons' value to rest of the league...

 

[Uncia03]

What?! No! Could you imagine how many games we would have won so far if it wasn't for Salmons? MAYBE 2-3? The guy is playing AMAZING, and other than Cisco, has been our main option on offense! Salmons' value to the Kings >>> Salmons' value to rest of the league...

Are you saying that instead of losing and being the 4th worst team in the league, if we traded Salmons we could be in a position to be losing with the best chance to secure the #1 spot in the draft?

In that case I'm definitely on the 'Trade John while his value is so high' Bandwagon now. John isn't going to be with us, or if he is, anywhere as productive as he is now, once our team gets into a position to compete at an elite level. So if we can turn him into an asset which will be more valuable to us in the future I'm all for it.

 

[PoundForPound]

No offense, but this thread is moronic.

Why get rid of the best player on the team? (without Kevin Martin) That would just be really stupid. Forget about age, haven't we learned from getting rid of players who we know are good just because we want to be younger? Salmons is the only player we have who is at least consistent and knows how to put the ball in the basket.

Hey, this guy is a beast..................

so let's trade him!

what the fudge?

 

[Uncia03]

No offense, but this thread is moronic.

Why get rid of the best player on the team? (without Kevin Martin) That would just be really stupid. Forget about age, haven't we learned from getting rid of players who we know are good just because we want to be younger? Salmons is the only player we have who is at least consistent and knows how to put the ball in the basket.

Hey, this guy is a beast..................

so let's trade him!

what the fudge?

It all really depends on what sort of trade you're looking at.
If by trading Salmons it opened up the deal to trade Brad Miller for Gerald Wallace, I'd do that with-out hesitation. Assuming (a big one there) that Wallace can stay healthy, he would be a far, far better fit at the 3 spot next to Kevin than Salmons is.

And if we could get a good deal for Salmons something along the pipedream of getting Bayless from Portland, than you secure a better fit for the 3-spot while picking up a promising player at our weakest position. (PG)

So, it would be completely in how it's managed, but if we can put ourselves into a better position to compete 2-3 years down the line by trading Salmons now, then you really have to do it, because let's face it, we are not competing for anything right now.

 

[Kings Faithful]

No offense, but this thread is moronic.

Why get rid of the best player on the team? (without Kevin Martin) That would just be really stupid. Forget about age, haven't we learned from getting rid of players who we know are good just because we want to be younger? Salmons is the only player we have who is at least consistent and knows how to put the ball in the basket.

Hey, this guy is a beast..................

so let's trade him!

what the fudge?

yeah, it makes sense...Salmons is in his prime right now, but now is not when we need him in his prime, we need him there in 3-5 years when we are contending again. Unfortunately by then we will have a younger new starting SF and Salmons will have been long gone. Lets trade him for a pick or a young one right now while we still can.

 

[captain bill]

Are you saying that instead of losing and being the 4th worst team in the league, if we traded Salmons we could be in a position to be losing with the best chance to secure the #1 spot in the draft?

In that case I'm definitely on the 'Trade John while his value is so high' Bandwagon now. John isn't going to be with us, or if he is, anywhere as productive as he is now, once our team gets into a position to compete at an elite level. So if we can turn him into an asset which will be more valuable to us in the future I'm all for it.

right, if we could get a draft pick from a team like NJ or PHO that would be an awesome. i think it is sad that we need to trade away a player of his caliber but lets face it, the kings suck this year and don't look to be getting better anytime soon. i'd rather have that pick.

 

[SacTownKid]

No offense, but this thread is moronic.

Why get rid of the best player on the team? (without Kevin Martin) That would just be really stupid. Forget about age, haven't we learned from getting rid of players who we know are good just because we want to be younger? Salmons is the only player we have who is at least consistent and knows how to put the ball in the basket.

Hey, this guy is a beast..................

so let's trade him!

what the fudge?

While he's under such a great contract is the best time to do it. He can't help us get over the hump but he can do that for somebody. The only other option to is trade someone else and build around him. I think moving him for something that works for us is the easiest choice.

 

[Prince_XY]

Not for the same reason Beno and Brad have to go. But he's GOT TO GO! He's too old to be in the youth movement. And he's been playing waaaay to good not to have a high trade value. This isn't the time to get sentimental and keep him because he's our best player on the floor. This is the time for cold, hard Spach-like logic. This is the time to say thanks for playing great, thanks for being the only consistent scorer we have, thanks for being the best defender on the floor. Thanks, and you are being traded for young talent and/or picks so that we can have a core of younger talented players that in a couple of years can do great things. Salmons has GOT TO GO!

I agree and everyhting you said sounds great.

But how do we go about trading him now?

Can we really do something to kick him out?

 

[Bricklayer]

Yes he does, the only hesitation is that contract -- we are getting great value for it right now. Its too bad he's too old. Kinda.

Anyway, in the end he's just the leading scorer on a terrible team, his season +/- is one of the worst on the team (-5.5 -- even worse than Kevin), and he's obviously not making us win by himself. He's imminently expendable. But you have to get good value now. This isn't a fluke. He is no 19ppg scorer for a good team, but he's a quality one...that is if he doesn't pout or quit on you for not getting his shots or coming off the bench or whatever. And he's got a good contract for the right team. This is not a guy you just dump for an ender right now. You trade him, you should get some young talent and/or a pick out of it.

We basically have two trade pieces right now that are outside the rebuild -- Brad, and John. Mikki and Kenny obviously, but they have no value. So we have Brad and John, and ideally you use them each in separate deals to bring in more young players and picks. Use those assets wisely, and you can greatly accelerate the rebuild. The young kids now, plus two or three kids or picks from those deals, plus the two picks we have right now in the draft and next year you could go:

"Old" guys (Age: 26-28):
Kevin
Cisco
Udrih
Free agent signing
Young guys (Age Under 25):
Hawes
Thompson
Greene
Brown
Kid from Brad trade
Kid from Salmons trade
Draft pick #1
Draft pick #2
Grump:
Kenny Thomas

And that suddenly out of the blue looks like a true and complete rebuild.

 

[Prince_XY]

"Old" guys (Age: 26-28):
Kevin
Cisco
Udrih
Free agent signing
Young guys (Age Under 25):
Hawes
Thompson
Greene
Brown
Kid from Brad trade
Kid from Salmons trade
Draft pick #1
Draft pick #2
Grump:
Kenny Thomas

And that suddenly out of the blue looks like a true and complete rebuild.

And then what?

We'll wait and hope for these kids to develop into excellent players for another 3-4 years?

This rebuilding is way too long and there's not even a guarantee that what we'll have will turn out to be more than mediocre players.

 

[Warhawk]

And then what?

We'll wait and hope for these kids to develop into excellent players for another 3-4 years?

This rebuilding is way too long and there's not even a guarantee that what we'll have will turn out to be more than mediocre players.

NO!

Then you use all the cap space we are freeing up in the next year or two to go after the high-quality free agents we will need as well.

And rebuilds very rarely can be performed quickly if you want more than 1-2 years of great play, and even then you have no guarantees. By developing youth you try to extend the number of years that you can keep competing at a high level - stretch it out for more chances to grab that brass ring. You can't get impatient about this. Takes some time....

 

[Big Cuz 15]

No offense, but this thread is moronic.

Why get rid of the best player on the team? (without Kevin Martin) That would just be really stupid. Forget about age, haven't we learned from getting rid of players who we know are good just because we want to be younger? Salmons is the only player we have who is at least consistent and knows how to put the ball in the basket.

Hey, this guy is a beast..................

so let's trade him!

what the fudge?

one word for ya..

REBUILDING-

 

[Big Cuz 15]

And then what?

We'll wait and hope for these kids to develop into excellent players for another 3-4 years?

This rebuilding is way too long and there's not even a guarantee that what we'll have will turn out to be more than mediocre players.

guess you didn't see the celtics swap a bunch of their young talent for a future HOF.. all of a sudden they have a .."******ship"

 

[DerekJ]

As pessimistic as it may sound, who's to say Martin will ever be healthy enough to be our SG of the future. Maybe Salmons is that guy.

 

[Nighthawk1]

Sometimes it sounds like you guys want to hold a firesale and just off all of our talent we have now even with them having high trade value. Salmons is a case where I think we shouldn't actively shop him, let the shoppers come to us on him. He's someone who only holds high value for certain teams who need him to complete their team - and they'll be the ones to give us highest trade return back.... I say we keep him until a contender comes to us needing him...

 

[Vlade4GM]

No offense, but this thread is moronic.

Why get rid of the best player on the team? (without Kevin Martin) That would just be really stupid. Forget about age, haven't we learned from getting rid of players who we know are good just because we want to be younger? Salmons is the only player we have who is at least consistent and knows how to put the ball in the basket.

Hey, this guy is a beast..................

so let's trade him!

what the fudge?

Because it's not about winning a few extra games now, it's about winning a whole lotta games later. Salmons has no value to the future core of this franchise, that's why we need to trade him for valuable rebuilding pieces while his stock is high instead of his trade value just wasting away getting us a few more needless wosses.

 

[Kingster]

Yes he does, the only hesitation is that contract -- we are getting great value for it right now. Its too bad he's too old. Kinda.

Anyway, in the end he's just the leading scorer on a terrible team, his season +/- is one of the worst on the team (-5.5 -- even worse than Kevin), and he's obviously not making us win by himself. He's imminently expendable. But you have to get good value now. This isn't a fluke. He is no 19ppg scorer for a good team, but he's a quality one...that is if he doesn't pout or quit on you for not getting his shots or coming off the bench or whatever. And he's got a good contract for the right team. This is not a guy you just dump for an ender right now. You trade him, you should get some young talent and/or a pick out of it.

We basically have two trade pieces right now that are outside the rebuild -- Brad, and John. Mikki and Kenny obviously, but they have no value. So we have Brad and John, and ideally you use them each in separate deals to bring in more young players and picks. Use those assets wisely, and you can greatly accelerate the rebuild. The young kids now, plus two or three kids or picks from those deals, plus the two picks we have right now in the draft and next year you could go:

"Old" guys (Age: 26-28):
Kevin
Cisco
Udrih
Free agent signing
Young guys (Age Under 25):
Hawes
Thompson
Greene
Brown
Kid from Brad trade
Kid from Salmons trade
Draft pick #1
Draft pick #2
Grump:
Kenny Thomas

And that suddenly out of the blue looks like a true and complete rebuild.

Yes, the rebuild could be greatly accelerated if we trade Salmons and Miller and get some decent value in return. And if we don't trade these guys, then Petrie's "strategy" in how he's doing this rebuild makes no sense whatsoever. He has to get value for these vets to make his rebuild strategy have validity. The way I look at Salmons, he has significantly more value than Artest. His ability is relatively comparable (people may quibble about that), but he doesn't have the attitude risk factor of Artest, which is a huge factor. So, we should get something back more than a Donte Green and a mid-level #1 draft pick for him.

 

[captain bill]

Sometimes it sounds like you guys want to hold a firesale and just off all of our talent we have now even with them having high trade value. Salmons is a case where I think we shouldn't actively shop him, let the shoppers come to us on him. He's someone who only holds high value for certain teams who need him to complete their team - and they'll be the ones to give us highest trade return back.... I say we keep him until a contender comes to us needing him...

i agree with that in theory except that a true contender is A. not gonna need a guy like john to fill out their roster and B. won't have much in terms of value to return for him because their draft pick won't be very high and they will be unwilling to part with talented players who might help them win now and are already integrated into the mix.

i'd rather see him go to a team like the nets or raptors who have some pieces in place but are struggling to make it to that next level and might be willing to give up a 1st rounder to get there- a pick that could end up in the 10-20 range if we are lucky.

 

[wiscoking13]

Hey guys, I'm just stopping by to see what the kings fans are thinking. I heard the trade rumors about salmon, also the cavs(even tho they claim their not doing anything) have been rumored to be talking with the bucks and kings so I put togeather this 3 way deal let me know what you think.

So I came up with this
This Trade Succeeded! Go back to adjust your trade or start over.
Cleveland Cavaliers



Incoming PlayersMichael Redd
Salary: $15,780,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 18.9 REB: 2.8 AST: 2.7 PER: 15.96
Brad Miller
Salary: $11,375,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 11.3 REB: 7.5 AST: 3.5 PER: 15.38

Outgoing Players: J.J. Hickson, Daniel Gibson, Wally Szczerbiak, Eric Snow
Sacramento Kings



Incoming PlayersJ.J. Hickson
Salary: $1,329,480 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 3.3 REB: 1.8 AST: 0.1 PER: 16.49
Daniel Gibson
Salary: $3,700,000 Years Remaining: 5
PTS: 9.3 REB: 2.2 AST: 1.9 PER: 11.77
Charlie Villanueva
Salary: $3,448,050 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 13.0 REB: 6.8 AST: 1.3 PER: 17.34
Wally Szczerbiak
Salary: $13,775,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 7.0 REB: 2.7 AST: 0.9 PER: 11.89

Outgoing Players: Quincy Douby, John Salmons, Brad Miller
Milwaukee Bucks



Incoming PlayersQuincy Douby
Salary: $1,427,040 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.2 REB: 1.3 AST: 0.7 PER: 6.85
John Salmons
Salary: $5,104,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 20.0 REB: 3.5 AST: 3.2 PER: 17.72
Eric Snow
Salary: $7,312,500 Years Remaining: 1



Also Gibbson can be exchanged with Delonte west. Which ever you like.
Let me know what you think. I know you'll say the cavs get everything bu their 1 and 2 guards (LBJ at the 3) won't be able to guard a brick wall.

 

[FakeInjury]

I vote for salmons to stay. He is one of our only finishers. That is worth alot right now. Let me derail this thread by asking, who wants to get rid of our only finisher?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

...I put togeather this 3 way deal let me know what you think...

Sacramento Kings

Incoming Players
J.J. Hickson Salary: $1,329,480 Years Remaining: 2 PTS: 3.3 REB: 1.8 AST: 0.1 PER: 16.49
Daniel Gibson Salary: $3,700,000 Years Remaining: 5 PTS: 9.3 REB: 2.2 AST: 1.9 PER: 11.77
Charlie Villanueva Salary: $3,448,050 Years Remaining: 1 PTS: 13.0 REB: 6.8 AST: 1.3 PER: 17.34
Wally Szczerbiak Salary: $13,775,000 Years Remaining: 1 PTS: 7.0 REB: 2.7 AST: 0.9 PER: 11.89

Outgoing Players: Quincy Douby, John Salmons, Brad Miller

...

I'm sure that there will be some people here who like it, because a lot of fans are calling for Salmons and Miller to be traded. As for myself, I can't say this would get it done for me. Obviously Douby is a salary piece at this point and I would not object to his inclusion in any deal. But the major benefit the Kings would get out of this would be a year of salary relief (for Miller's contract) and little else. Szczerbiak is just expiring salary, and at this point I'm not high on Villanueva, so he's salary too. Gibson does not really satisfy our hopes for a young stud PG, essentially he would be redundant with Beno - a bottom ten starting PG with a long, mid-value deal. (I suppose that if we already had a young stud PG in the wing, I might even prefer Gibson to Udrih as the current starter/future backup but getting Gibson's contract now is not the way to go about doing things.) I'm also not high on Hickson. He seems like a useful, but replaceable, bench PF.

But what we lose here is in my mind a lot more valuable than what we get back. Miller is a big expiring contract for the "blockbuster" 2010 offseason, so if we're willing to eat a little more salary (that is a fairly big if) we can hope to trade him in the offseason or before the '10 deadline for some dead weight and get back a first round pick and a promising kid. And I believe Salmons is one of our biggest assets when you look at ability and contract put together. Folks around here want to get rid of Salmons to clear the way for either a trade attempt aimed at Gerald Wallace or to open time for Donté Greene, but his value for us is wasted in this deal. Salmons could probably bring us back ending contracts, plus a pick and a promising kid on his own (Artest, with only one year left and known behavioral issues netted us that much), so there's not much reason to package him for a bunch of players we don't really want.

We're rebuilding, and picks are the key. If Milwaukee were to throw in an unprotected pick...I'd start considering. I think we could get more draft quantity through other channels but if Milwaukee falls enough to get a pick around 10 that might be the best quality pick we could hope for. In this deal, Milwaukee is essentially tossing Redd and his salary to get Salmons...unless you're really feeling the financial heat, you're not likely to throw in this year's pick.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I vote for salmons to stay. He is one of our only finishers. That is worth alot right now. Let me derail this thread by asking, who wants to get rid of our only finisher?

John Salmons isn't a finisher. If he was, we would have an extra 3-5 games under our W column...

 

[wiscoking13]

I'm sure that there will be some people here who like it, because a lot of fans are calling for Salmons and Miller to be traded. As for myself, I can't say this would get it done for me. Obviously Douby is a salary piece at this point and I would not object to his inclusion in any deal. But the major benefit the Kings would get out of this would be a year of salary relief (for Miller's contract) and little else. Szczerbiak is just expiring salary, and at this point I'm not high on Villanueva, so he's salary too. Gibson does not really satisfy our hopes for a young stud PG, essentially he would be redundant with Beno - a bottom ten starting PG with a long, mid-value deal. (I suppose that if we already had a young stud PG in the wing, I might even prefer Gibson to Udrih as the current starter/future backup but getting Gibson's contract now is not the way to go about doing things.) I'm also not high on Hickson. He seems like a useful, but replaceable, bench PF.

But what we lose here is in my mind a lot more valuable than what we get back. Miller is a big expiring contract for the "blockbuster" 2010 offseason, so if we're willing to eat a little more salary (that is a fairly big if) we can hope to trade him in the offseason or before the '10 deadline for some dead weight and get back a first round pick and a promising kid. And I believe Salmons is one of our biggest assets when you look at ability and contract put together. Folks around here want to get rid of Salmons to clear the way for either a trade attempt aimed at Gerald Wallace or to open time for Donté Greene, but his value for us is wasted in this deal. Salmons could probably bring us back ending contracts, plus a pick and a promising kid on his own (Artest, with only one year left and known behavioral issues netted us that much), so there's not much reason to package him for a bunch of players we don't really want.

We're rebuilding, and picks are the key. If Milwaukee were to throw in an unprotected pick...I'd start considering. I think we could get more draft quantity through other channels but if Milwaukee falls enough to get a pick around 10 that might be the best quality pick we could hope for. In this deal, Milwaukee is essentially tossing Redd and his salary to get Salmons...unless you're really feeling the financial heat, you're not likely to throw in this year's pick.

On the bottom of the thread I said you could have D west instead of Gibbson they both work. I got JJ hickson from the rumors that the kings value him. Charlie V is is a retrited FA so if you guys end up liking him its first dips.

 

[LPKingsFan]

John Salmons isn't a finisher. If he was, we would have an extra 3-5 games under our W column...

Hard to finish when you're driving into three defenders on a regular basis.

 

[6th]

Hard to finish when you're driving into three defenders on a regular basis.

Because he refuses to even look for the open players.

 

[bloom]

The problem with designing plays for players who have tunnel vision is, that they don’t and probably won’t pass to another open person. John is on the same boat as Ron. When the coach set plays for them at the end of games, they never really looked around to see if another player has a better shot.

I'm just hoping that most teams are looking.