Right. And regarding the comments about us getting older as a result of this trade, well, that will change as these expiring contracts come off the books this summer and we bring in three draft picks (we do have three now, right?).
Salary dump or use the new old guys? (split)
- Thread starter Superman
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Right. And regarding the comments about us getting older as a result of this trade, well, that will change as these expiring contracts come off the books this summer and we bring in three draft picks (we do have three now, right?).
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Yeah, 3 picks this year. A big change from the last few years where we've just been having one. Dream scenario ; Us landing Darrell Arthur (or Donte Green) with our lottery pick. Possibly trade our two 2nd rounders for a late 1st.
At this point, I'm not prepared to jump to any conclusions about our roster next week, let alone next year. We are now an older team. The front office can either change that, or not.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
I don't agree that we're an older team. On a technicality, we might be, but this was clearly a move to go younger. Lue, AJ and Wright are not important players. They will be gone next year. Then we will be younger, with the addition of Shelden and a draftee in place of Mike.
=LarryLegend=
Starter
I wouldn't mind aj backing beno up for the next 31 games.
I don't see how looking at the fact that three of the oldest players on the roster are coming off the books next year is jumping to conclusions.
Subtract Lue (31), Wright (33) and Johnson (34) from the mix, and we're a considerably younger team. Not to mention the fact that we'll likely be drafting a couple or three young players this summer.
Like dime dropper said, this was clearly a move to go younger, and I can't imagine that the front office has any intentions of re-signing any of those three guys. They traded for them, not because of what they can do on the court, but because they are expiring contracts. Might as well cut all three of them right now.
All of our PGs are expirings. Maybe we will be able to re-sign Beno, maybe not. Even if we do, that leaves us with one PG, when we really need two. AJ is reliable, and Lue is better than nothing, so for Geoff to re-sign either or both of them is far from impossible.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
We HAVE to re-sign some point guards and that includes one received in trade. It doesn't mean the contracts will be a big ones. We also might get lucky in the draft but I'd prefer we continue our search for bigs in the draft.
As to who will get minutes, we are getting younger if you consider our starting pg most likely will be Beno and Shelden should get a lot of minutes. If he doesn't, this trade was a bad one.
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Well... I look at this trade as a salary dump, pure and simple. Shelden's contract isn't big, and Atlanta lost whatever interest they had in playing him, so if he works out, great. If not, we still reduced payroll substantially. I think that's the standard one needs to apply in determining the success of this trade. This was the larger version of Skinner for Potapenko.
I'm assuming here, and maybe jumping to conclusions, that we re-sign Beno this summer (using our MLE, or a portion of it). I'd rather we draft a point guard or use whatever is left of the MLE or our LLE (do we have one this summer) to sign a backup point guard, preferably someone young. I wouldn't mind keeping Lue as the backup, but I definitely don't want to see Anthony Johnson retained beyond this season.
VF21 said:
No, I don't think we'll cut them either. I was just saying that it's highly unlikely that we keep them beyond this year. We might as well cut them and let them sign with contenders that could use some veteran experience at the point guard/power forward positions. Or we could package them together for another second rounder, and use all three seconds for a late first.
Yeah, I think the primary objective was to dump salary, with the primer being that we got a young prospect and a pick on top of expiring contracts. So, if the goal was to get enders, why would we turn around and retain them past this season? Just works against the logic of the trade in the first place.
I doubt that the goal is to re-sign them, but, after watching the beginning of this season, I also don't expect Geoff to set us up with 0-1 PGs next year... I don't think he's on the tanking bandwagon. Unless we snag a really promising, NBA-ready PG in the draft this summer, I think we can expect him to sign someone who is cheap and adequate. And those guys will already have their feet in the door.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
The only thing it could potential cost us is the playing time that will be subtracted from playing them instead of the youngins.
NoBonus
Starter
Lue especially.... but I think Justin Williams days were numbered when his bad-press incident happened earlier this year. There are a lot of big bench guys in the league and the last thing the Kings needed was bad press for something dirty, so let's do the math:
expendable + embarrassed the team and yourself = waived
Because even if you got rid of them, you are still paying them. And as Memphis showed, having an expiring of a sizable nature may help you. Having an expiring of very little $$$ usually does little.
Couldn't waive Lue because he wasn't on the team yet. Didn't waive KT because it would have been expensive.
Yes, waiving those guys made our team worse, but two people had to be waived before the deal could go through, and, with the exception of Beno, they were cheapest. And if you don't love that, you don't love the NBA's totally screwed up personnel system.
At least we didn't just sign Keith Van Horn for $4M.
Meh; neither of them is going to do anything to benefit us long-term, and in their 30's, they are probably going to try to find someone who will actually pay them something substantial and offer a multi-year deal. We did this deal with an eye on the future, definitely not this season and not even next. Having either Tyronn Lue or Anthony Johnson on the roster does nothing for us besides fill out the depth chart. We can find someone more consistent with our "business model" to play that role.
Again, assuming we do re-sign Beno ... I don't see Lue or Johnson being retained after this season, and definitely not Lorenzen Wright. Doing so is backtracking against the whole objective of the trade.
Backtracking against our objective for the trade, perhaps, but we aren't Geoff. I wasn't arguing that it would be good to retain either one, just that we can't totally rule out the possibility (because we don't like it).
Glenn
Hall of Famer
So you don't think getting the #5 pick in the draft a couple years ago at a position where we are desparate for skill was not a major part of this trade?
At some point in rebuilding you have to stop dumping and start buying. I don't expect a spectacular career from Shelden but then someone did or they wouldn't have picked him so high. The fact that he hasn't had much playing time does not concern me. The stories of his work ethic are encouraging.
We have a major hole that has been plugged by aging people. We have two people that can be used in trade to fill this position more adequately and more permanently and they are Artest or Bibby. I'd hate to see either of them used just to dump salaries as I think that is a major waste of their trade value. In fact, personally I believe I have been pretty consistent in saying that Bibby should be traded to fill the power forward hole.
People don't have to agree with me but I would bet money that a key portion to this trade was Shelden and that wasn't just to dump his salary. He is a young guy that can be part of the rebuilding process. Isn't this one of the two keys to rebuilding: dump salary AND get young guys with potential?
Heuge
Starter
Agreed from me. The fact is there are not many good power forwards available for a price tag of Bibby or Artest. Sheldon is a risk. While I have compared Kenny Thomas with his wing span and height. I would be wrong not to mention that his physique is most similar to Elton Brand. Probably won't become anywhere near an Elton Brand but he is high reward low harm type of guy, an ideal center piece around expirings for Bibby.
With that said I wish we could have got a bit more out of the Bibby deal, buy who doesnt.
I don't know, he is considered to have been one of Atlanta's worse draft picks, and the competition is brutal. That he was #5 means nothing to me, unless he plays in the NBA like a #5. So far, he hasn't done that. I don't know to what extent Geoff may think he has unexplored potential, or whether he did it to placate fans (who never get excited about pure cost cutting moves), or whether Atlanta was anxious to get the guy off their payroll, or some combination of the above. Sports commentators who have nothing to do with either team have referred to the trade as our "weekend giveaway," and talked about what we got back as "leftovers and a cherry Coke," so there's little doubt that most consider it to be about cutting payroll.
I'm not quite as bleak as that, I think there's hope that the guy will stay on our roster as a backup. I am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not really expecting anything. And I don't think that Geoff is, either. He cut pay by a lot, I think that he'll be content, whatever happens.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I wouldn't be totally shocked to see the trade deadline pass with no activity with Ron. That would give time to see how Nene's health is. By mid summer, there should be adequate information to know if Nene's health will hold up. Then the trade that was discussed so long ago (a couple weeks I think) might still be viable. Ron would have to cooperate by not opting out and Nene cooperate by being healthy.
Shelden and Nene would be two decent and YOUNG power forwards coupled with YOUNG Hawes and Miller at center. No huge star but no huge dud either.
Don't count out SAR and Mikki as being able to contribute if needed.
And then there is KT.
Shelden and Nene would be two decent and YOUNG power forwards coupled with YOUNG Hawes and Miller at center. No huge star but no huge dud either.
Don't count out SAR and Mikki as being able to contribute if needed.
And then there is KT.
bibbinator
Bench
KT's ultimate value is as a 9 million dollar expiring in 09-10.
He's going to bring in almost half of our next 20 million/yr superstar.
No point in buying him out now. He knows his value and isn't going to let us
off the hook at an economically viable cost. So we stuck together.
He's going to bring in almost half of our next 20 million/yr superstar.
No point in buying him out now. He knows his value and isn't going to let us
off the hook at an economically viable cost. So we stuck together.
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