Sacramento Kings Playing a Dangerous Game with DeMarcus Cousins-Bleacher Report

Chupacabra said:
it boggles the mind that youre blaming the current rut on player effort.
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I'm absolutely not. I'm saying pick your head up and play ball. The body language is what is within their control. The coaching decision is not. Don't compound the issue. I bet the players would agree.

I think people need to realize that 2 things can be true at the same time. Just because your GM is an idiot, it doesn't mean you're absolved from any responsibility of your own actions.
 
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KingsFanGER said:
I'm sorry but we may have build a team identity under Malone, but we didn't play the team ball Atlanta and San Antonio are known for. You take this tweet out of his context.
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Were you honestly expecting team play at that level from a core that had been together for one training camp and 24 games? And I don't mean that in a snarky way, just trying to get a sense of expectations.

Jeff Teague and Al Horford have been together for six seasons. Korver has been there for three. Even relative newcomer Paul Millsap has had two full training camps with the team. And it's worth noting that pretty much this same roster lost 22 of 36 down the stretch last year. Nobody picked them to be a top team in the East. Most predictions were that they'd be around .500 and be somewhere between the 4th and 7th seed in a weak Eastern Conference. So why the uptick this year? I'd say because of familiarity and trust - chemistry if you will. That takes time.

How long have Duncan, Parker and Ginobili been playing with one another? The answer is that this is their 13th season together. Splitter and Green have been there 5 years. This is Kawhi Leonard's 4th season. Boris Diaw is starting his third full season and played part of a fourth.

Jason Thompson, DeMarcus Cousins, Ray McCallum and Ben McLemore are I believe the only current players that went through training camp with the Kings last year.

There have been some teams that are assembled one offseason and serious contenders the following season but unless I'm forgetting one we're only talking about major markets that attract stars via free agency or forcing a trade - ie Houston, Miami, the Lakers of a few years back etc. The small market teams have to build something.

And the Kings aren't building anything right now. Is Tyrone Corbin the guy long term? Is he even an improvement over Malone? If the answers to both questions is no then this season is a waste and the Kings will start over again next season. Will that grow into anything sustainable or will things be torn apart and rebuilt? Is Cousins even going to want to be here?

It's more than firing a middle of the pack coach with potential in Malone. It's constantly starting over which is what separates the Kings from the Spurs, and the Raiders from the Patriots.

Are we ready to start saying "wait 'til next year" less than half way through this one that started off with some real promise? Will the team even top the 28 wins of the last two seasons? And is there anyone who thinks Mike Malone deserved to be fired because his team wasn't playing team ball as well as squads whose best players have been together for multiple seasons?
 
KingsFanGER said:
You may be right, but if you look at Atlanta this is Budenholzer's second season as the head coach and this team oriented playstyle, with lots of ball movement and outside shots was very visible even in his first year. This was not the case with Malone. But of course you have to take into account,that the Kings made more roster moves than the Hawks and that the Hawks followed the same vision from top to bottom, because GM and Coaching Staff and Players were all on the same track.
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And the hawks don't have ball dominate players and have shooting all over the court. We have 2 ball dominate players and 1 shooter. We should have been building to a team like Memphis not spurs/hawks. If we kept improving the defense we would be true contenders in 2-3 years playing Memphis style basketball.
 
Livinthedream said:
I'm absolutely not. I'm saying pick your head up and play ball. The body language is what is within their control. The coaching decision is not. Don't compound the issue. I bet the players would agree.

I think people need to realize that 2 things can be true at the same time. Just because your GM is an idiot, it doesn't mean you're absolved from any responsibility of your own actions.
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The poor body language comes from frustration. The frustration comes from the team's poor play. The team's poor play comes from trying to change a style of play during the season. And the change in style comes because the coach was fired. Not really hard to see the connection. Yeah, the guys should give full effort but if you went from feeling like you had a coach that you trusted and who had you playing a style that was allowing you to compete and be a surprise team and now you are getting blown out by the Celtics and Pistons on the road and needing overtime to beat a terrible Knicks team at home then it's pretty hard to be 100% committed to the new direction.

And what nobody has yet mentioned is that DeMarcus came back in Corbin's second game as coach and PDA went to great lengths to explain how Cousins is only 60% and that it took Luol Deng the whole offseason to recover from viral meningitis and yet Cousins' first game back he played 33 minutes in the new "uptempo" Kings offense. In fact, he's averaged 33 mpg which is one minute MORE per game than before he got sick and in a much faster paced offense. And that's not even counting that he fouled out of two of those games (well fouled out in Minny, ejected in Boston) and otherwise would have likely played more minutes. If the big fella is only 60% and still recovering, why on earth is Corbin making him play more minutes in a faster paced system than when he was healthy?

Peronally if I were Cousins I'd be close to asking for a trade too. You fire a coach I respect and whom had a system that I not only bought into but that was providing team success for the first time in my NBA career without bringing in a high level replacement, the team goes 9-6 in my first 15 games (with the 2nd toughest strength of schedule during that span) and 3-6 in the next 9 against far softer competition and you're also acknowledging that I'm still not recovered from my illness but making me play more minutes with more running despite me being your best player AND a 6'11" 280 lb hulking interior player.

As a former high school teacher I can tell you flat out that the easiest way to lose a class' focus and respect is to show that you don't know what you're doing. I'm not sure what we're seeing on the court form the players isn't analogous. Every player in the NBA is being paid an enormous amount of money to play a game. But some feel they have more to play for than others.
 
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funkykingston said:
The poor body language comes from frustration. The frustration comes from the team's poor play. The team's poor play comes from trying to change a style of play during the season. And the change in style comes because the coach was fired. Not really hard to see the connection. Yeah, the guys should give full effort but if you went from feeling like you had a coach that you trusted and who had you playing a style that was allowing you to compete and be a surprise team and now you are getting blown out by the Celtics and Pistons on the road and needing overtime to beat a terrible Knicks team at home then it's pretty hard to be 100% committed to the new direction.

And what nobody has yet mentioned is that DeMarcus came back in Corbin's second game as coach and PDA went to great lengths to explain how Cousins is only 60% and that it took Luol Deng the whole offseason to recover from viral meningitis and yet Cousins' first game back he played 33 minutes in the new "uptempo" Kings offense. In fact, he's averaged 33 mpg which is one minute MORE per game than before he got sick and in a much faster paced offense. And that's not even counting that he fouled out of two of those games (well fouled out in Minny, ejected in Boston) and otherwise would have likely played more minutes. If the big fella is only 60% and still recovering, why on earth is Corbin making him play more minutes in a faster paced system than when he was healthy.

Peronally if I were Cousins I'd be close to asking for a trade too. You fire a coach I respect and that had a system that I not only bought into but was seen team success for the first time in my NBA career without bringing in a high level replacement, the team goes 9-6 in my first 15 games (with the 2nd toughest strength of schedule during that span) and 3-6 in the next 9 against far softer competition and you're also acknowledging that I'm still not recovered from my illness but making me play more minutes with more running despite me being your best player AND a 6'11" 280 lb hulking interior player.

As a former high school teacher I can tell you flat out that the easiest way to lose a class' focus and respect is to show that you don't know what you're doing. I'm not sure what we're seeing on the court form the players isn't analogous. Every player in the NBA is being paid an enormous amount of money to play a game. But some feel they have more to play for than others.
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I think everyone is a littlr uptight. I'll repeat. 2 things can be true at the same time.

I can acknowledge the impact of losing Malone while also noting that players won't do themselves any good by sulking.

You mentioned Cousins directly. Cousins himself has said they need to get themselves together despite the coaching situation. Collison has said they need to play ball regardless. So why the sensitivity to what I'm saying, I don't know.

For the record I'm more concerned about Gay than Cousins. Cousins is volatile and he knows it. He knows he needs to get it together and wants to. I have no idea what is going through Rudy's head.
 
Livinthedream said:
I think everyone is a littlr uptight. I'll repeat. 2 things can be true at the same time.

I can acknowledge the impact of losing Malone while also noting that players won't do themselves any good by sulking.

You mentioned Cousins directly. Cousins himself has said they need to get themselves together despite the coaching situation. Collison has said they need to play ball regardless. So why the sensitivity to what I'm saying, I don't know.

For the record I'm more concerned about Gay than Cousins. Cousins is volatile and he knows it. He knows he needs to get it together and wants to. I have no idea what is going through Rudy's head.
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I'm not the least bit uptight honestly and I wasn't bothered at all by your comment - I was just explaining my view of it.

Of course the players do themselves no good by sulking. But if they play their hearts out and only lose to Boston by 12 instead of 22 I'm not sure that changes anything. I still see a team headed for the lottery, chiefly because the GM decided to completely disrupt the season with no plan to fix it, at least in the short term. Maybe the trade deadline changes the landscape dramatically. Or maybe next offseason we see some changes that yield major positive results.

But right now the Kings look rudderless. They look like the same group of guys from last year that hadn't learned how to play team defense or win games. And they look frustrated. That doesn't help them, but I understand it. But yeah, I hope they get over/past it.

Interestingly enough, in the vast majority of cases you see better play out of an NBA team for a few games after a coach is fired midseason. The fact that we're seeing the opposite here tells me a few things. But just as the burst of good play from the "dead coach bounce" recedes and the team generally normalizes a bit, I expect the Kings to bounce back a bit as well.

http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2008/11/word-of-day-dead-coach-bounce.html
 
Livinthedream said:
I think everyone is a littlr uptight. I'll repeat. 2 things can be true at the same time.

I can acknowledge the impact of losing Malone while also noting that players won't do themselves any good by sulking.

You mentioned Cousins directly. Cousins himself has said they need to get themselves together despite the coaching situation. Collison has said they need to play ball regardless. So why the sensitivity to what I'm saying, I don't know.

For the record I'm more concerned about Gay than Cousins. Cousins is volatile and he knows it. He knows he needs to get it together and wants to. I have no idea what is going through Rudy's head.
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probably something to the effect of: "you knuckleheads fired the head coach that you hired just over a season ago... the same head coach that was a major factor in my decision to re-sign with you in the first place... the same head coach that had me playing some of the best basketball of my career... and the same head coach that was in the process of shaping this sad sack kings team into a winner. i don't play for you, pete d'allesandro. i don't play for you, vivek ranadive. i played for michael malone, and i don't understand why he's no longer my coach."

there is usually a bump in the level of a team's play when an unpopular coach is replaced. it's hardly surprising that the opposite might occur when a popular coach is replaced. and while i agree that it would be nice to see this kings team "get themselves together," it's rather hard to do that without adequate leadership in place. demarcus cousins was in the middle of transforming into a leader on the court, but he was doing so with a strong-minded and popular head coach at his back. now that leadership is missing on the sideline, on the court, and in the locker room. the kings are "playing ball regardless," but they don't have any direction, don't have anyone reliable to guide them, and worst of all, they don't have anything to play for, as all hope for the playoffs has been completely extinguished. some seem to be of the same mindset as vivek ranadive, that mike malone effectively established culture change, and now the team can press onward in the style that the new regime prizes so highly. 'cept it doesn't work that way. one season and 24 games is hardly enough time to establish much of anything, particularly with so much roster turnover in that span. the process wasn't finished; it was demolished before this team could actually build sustainable momentum (and perhaps that was the point, if PDA was weasely enough to organize a power play)...

imagine building a sturdy house with a well-liked foreman who can get things done ahead of schedule. then imagine the architect of that house deciding he doesn't like the look of things just as the construction team gets the foundation laid and the frame up. then imagine the architect blaming the foreman for the sudden change of heart. then imagine the architect firing the foreman and leveling that incomplete structure with a wrecking ball, without saying a word to any of the construction workers. then imagine the next day, as the architect tells those same workers, "build it this way instead, so it's more like a mansion," even though they've only got enough tools and materials to build the sturdy house that was initially designed. then imagine the architect saying, "oh, by the way, here's a less qualified replacement to lead you, and i expect you to perform better than before under this new foreman's inadequate leadership, and with the admittedly limited resources at your disposal. but trust me, this guy's great, you're gonna love him." then imagine the architect laughing awkwardly and departing the mess he created at the work site, as the construction team shakes its collective head in utter confusion. don't you think the workers might stretch out their lunch breaks a little longer, hammer just a little slower, work together with a bit less camaraderie? though they'd like to lift their heads high and "get themselves together," their hard work has just been spat on by someone who doesn't appear to know what he's doing...
 
the circumstances are there. there's no excuse to play badly at all. malone said so himself, he's not an excuse guy, and i think the players took that to heart before malone was fired. theyll try to stay level-headed, and theyll try to win games. but its still a struggle for them. demarcus said so himself that no matter the circumstances the kings have to play hard. but we all need to accept that sometimes the players cant help it because they are human. there's no excuse to play poorly, and thats a fact. but because there was an emotionally taxing firing, we should expect the players to run into roadbumps anyway, no matter how hard they try to give their effort.
 
I do not see Cousins as the type of guy demanding a trade to another team. He plays a huge role on our team, but I don't think he'd play a big role on other teams right now mostly because a lot of teams already have their franchise pieces. He'd only be an add on guy. I think Cousins is happy with his role on our team, but he's unhappy about the changes.

I just don't see Cousins as that type of guy.
 
206Fan said:
I do not see Cousins as the type of guy demanding a trade to another team. He plays a huge role on our team, but I don't think he'd play a big role on other teams right now mostly because a lot of teams already have their franchise pieces. He'd only be an add on guy. I think Cousins is happy with his role on our team, but he's unhappy about the changes.

I just don't see Cousins as that type of guy.
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He's one of the 10 best players in the NBA. He'd play a big role wherever he went. He'd instantly become the #1 option on more than half of the likely playoff teams.

But if he goes, its absolutely 100% because we basically forced it on him. There are no excuses, nowhere to hide. We have been given the ultimate NBA gift: a young franchise big man. And we're blowing it. If we squander that gift I'll volunteer to write the humiliating articles mocking us ourselves.
 
Bricklayer said:
He's one of the 10 best players in the NBA. He'd play a big role wherever he went. He'd instantly become the #1 option on more than half of the likely playoff teams.

But if he goes, its absolutely 100% because we basically forced it on him. There are no excuses, nowhere to hide. We have been given the ultimate NBA gift: a young franchise big man. And we're blowing it. If we squander that gift I'll volunteer to write the humiliating articles mocking us ourselves.
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He'd be the #1 option, but I don't think the offense will be catered to his strengths(our offense used to compliment Cuz very well). He'll be an additional guy onto the team. For example if he went to a team like Miami, touches will be distributed around and he'll get less. Even if he's the #1 option, he won't get the touches he does here. I think Cousins likes being in demand of his team.

I agree with you there, but I don't think Cousins will want out unless something terrible happens. It'll take time for everyone in our roster to adapt to the coaching change. Cousins will only demand a trade if the FO wants him out.
 
206Fan said:
He'd be the #1 option, but I don't think the offense will be catered to his strengths(our offense used to compliment Cuz very well). He'll be an additional guy onto the team. For example if he went to a team like Miami, touches will be distributed around and he'll get less. Even if he's the #1 option, he won't get the touches he does here. I think Cousins likes being in demand of his team.

I agree with you there, but I don't think Cousins will want out unless something terrible happens. It'll take time for everyone in our roster to adapt to the coaching change. Cousins will only demand a trade if the FO wants him out.
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Not everyone has PDA for a GM, They will adjust everything to cater to him.

Cousins loves to win first and foremost, we saw that in the beggining of the year, he showed no signs of the issues he had in the past and had great body language along with being a leader and encouraging teammate. He is still getting his numbers now, but just like years past his maturity is regressing. You can tell by watching him, he doesnt care if hes the focal point, hes only gets frustrated when were losing and hopeless.

Something terrible has happend, we threw away a great start by firing a coach DMC genuinely loved playing for with no backup plan and are inching closer and closer to a trade demand. More of this "trust me" non sense from PDA without results and Cuz will ask out.
 
Padrino said:
imagine building a sturdy house with a well-liked foreman who can get things done ahead of schedule. then imagine the architect of that house deciding he doesn't like the look of things just as the construction team gets the foundation laid and the frame up. then imagine the architect blaming the foreman for the sudden change of heart. then imagine the architect firing the foreman and leveling that incomplete structure with a wrecking ball, without saying a word to any of the construction workers. then imagine the next day, as the architect tells those same workers, "build it this way instead, so it's more like a mansion," even though they've only got enough tools and materials to build the sturdy house that was initially designed. then imagine the architect saying, "oh, by the way, here's a less qualified replacement to lead you, and i expect you to perform better than before under this new foreman's inadequate leadership, and with the admittedly limited resources at your disposal. but trust me, this guy's great, you're gonna love him." then imagine the architect laughing awkwardly and departing the mess he created at the work site, as the construction team shakes its collective head in utter confusion. don't you think the workers might stretch out their lunch breaks a little longer, hammer just a little slower, work together with a bit less camaraderie? though they'd like to lift their heads high and "get themselves together," their hard work has just been spat on by someone who doesn't appear to know what he's doing...
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Except they didn't ask a mansion to be built. They asked for the sturdy house to be built a little quicker with a bolder paint scheme. They have the same material and the same tools to work with. The guy to replaced the Foreman was second in command. In fact, he was hand picked by the foreman, so he's not starting from scratch and neither are the players. They may be less efficient, but the job isn't new. No matter how much they liked their foreman, they better pick up their hammers and drills and not forget how to be construction workers. The old boss is not coming back, no matter how much they protest.

I get your point and I'm not saying there isn't a psychological aspect to it. If you pay attention to my posts, I consistently approach issues from a psychological/ sociological view point. However, how long is the grieving period supposed to last? I'm not expecting the Kings to go out and play as well as they did with Malone. What I expect is for them to act like grown men who have a job to do. There is no reason they have to forget the defense approach and philosophy taught by Malone. None. There is no reason not to pass the ball around to open teammates. You can't tell me that they can no longer play team ball because Malone is not there to tell them how. Or Ty doesn't say it in the right way. I'm not talking scheme. I'm talking basketball basics.
 
206Fan said:
I do not see Cousins as the type of guy demanding a trade to another team. He plays a huge role on our team, but I don't think he'd play a big role on other teams right now mostly because a lot of teams already have their franchise pieces. He'd only be an add on guy. I think Cousins is happy with his role on our team, but he's unhappy about the changes.

I just don't see Cousins as that type of guy.
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lol, he'll demand one soon if this carnival continues. who in their right mind would continue to play these games. i should be campaigning him to on twitter so it wakes the FO up.
highness.jpg
 
206Fan said:
He'd be the #1 option, but I don't think the offense will be catered to his strengths(our offense used to compliment Cuz very well). He'll be an additional guy onto the team. For example if he went to a team like Miami, touches will be distributed around and he'll get less. Even if he's the #1 option, he won't get the touches he does here. I think Cousins likes being in demand of his team.

I agree with you there, but I don't think Cousins will want out unless something terrible happens. It'll take time for everyone in our roster to adapt to the coaching change. Cousins will only demand a trade if the FO wants him out.
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He'd be the # 1 option on every playoff team expect one with durant/lebron. Building around a dominate big man is so much easier than building around a wing man. It's sad the the FO is messing it up.
 
funkykingston said:
Were you honestly expecting team play at that level from a core that had been together for one training camp and 24 games? And I don't mean that in a snarky way, just trying to get a sense of expectations.

Jeff Teague and Al Horford have been together for six seasons. Korver has been there for three. Even relative newcomer Paul Millsap has had two full training camps with the team. And it's worth noting that pretty much this same roster lost 22 of 36 down the stretch last year. Nobody picked them to be a top team in the East. Most predictions were that they'd be around .500 and be somewhere between the 4th and 7th seed in a weak Eastern Conference. So why the uptick this year? I'd say because of familiarity and trust - chemistry if you will. That takes time.

How long have Duncan, Parker and Ginobili been playing with one another? The answer is that this is their 13th season together. Splitter and Green have been there 5 years. This is Kawhi Leonard's 4th season. Boris Diaw is starting his third full season and played part of a fourth.

Jason Thompson, DeMarcus Cousins, Ray McCallum and Ben McLemore are I believe the only current players that went through training camp with the Kings last year.

There have been some teams that are assembled one offseason and serious contenders the following season but unless I'm forgetting one we're only talking about major markets that attract stars via free agency or forcing a trade - ie Houston, Miami, the Lakers of a few years back etc. The small market teams have to build something.

And the Kings aren't building anything right now. Is Tyrone Corbin the guy long term? Is he even an improvement over Malone? If the answers to both questions is no then this season is a waste and the Kings will start over again next season. Will that grow into anything sustainable or will things be torn apart and rebuilt? Is Cousins even going to want to be here?

It's more than firing a middle of the pack coach with potential in Malone. It's constantly starting over which is what separates the Kings from the Spurs, and the Raiders from the Patriots.

Are we ready to start saying "wait 'til next year" less than half way through this one that started off with some real promise? Will the team even top the 28 wins of the last two seasons? And is there anyone who thinks Mike Malone deserved to be fired because his team wasn't playing team ball as well as squads whose best players have been together for multiple seasons?
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Well ... I think Budenholzer also deserves a lot of credit for coaching them to move the ball, and that's not much of a surprise for a Popovich assistant. Completely agree with the bolded part. I don't think fans are angry just because Malone was fired. He was a decent coach, best we've had in years, but that doesn't say much. It's the direction of the franchise, either the wrong direction or the lack of direction depending on your personal inclination towards a faster paced offense, that is concerning.
 
I'm finding it hard to believe that some KF's just don;t get that the players do not want to win for PDA.

If you were one of the Kings players, you have been put into a situation where : If you play well and win, you are directly making a statement that Michael Malone did not matter.
You are stabbing the guy in the back that you had been in a foxhole with.
Further, since the firing was obviously done without player approval, you are indirectly suggesting that the players on the team don't matter and their concerns can be dismissed.

What PDA (and the rest of us) are seeing out there on the court is a direct result of a mutiny by the team following a coup-de-tat by PDA.
And this will continue until Demarcus and Rudy are convinced that PDA has wisened up and learned his lesson, or until a new coach comes in that satisfies their needs and will get the whole team buying in again.
Nerdy stat-driven lawyers are not in charge of the Kings, people, despite appearances.
These elite athletes will NOT be disrespected and treated like employees by non-athletic paper-pushers who don't know what it takes to win in the NBA.

This is a standoff.
And I don't see it going away until PDA does, or more specifically the FO's smarter-than-thou attitude is dropped and the players are consulted and respected like the elite athletes they believe they deserve to be.
 
Spike said:
He may be genuine, but if he's trying to maintain/upgrade his image, getting testy over social media is probably not the way to go.
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Point well taken.

On the other hand, he didn't have to say anything at all, and nobody would have noticed had he just stayed quiet. If I were actively feuding with somebody I'd take the silence route, but he could have reasons not to do that.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Point well taken.

On the other hand, he didn't have to say anything at all, and nobody would have noticed had he just stayed quiet. If I were actively feuding with somebody I'd take the silence route, but he could have reasons not to do that.
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I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. People will assume a lot if he stays quiet, and will dissect whatever he says (like I did). At least he didn't give PDA "the vote of confidence".
 
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