[Game] Sacramento Kings at Memphis Grizzlies, 12/31/23, 5 PM PST/8 PM EST

[MizzouKing]

those are those flow mind states I was referring to in one thread, simply effortless and in one, smooth motion where everything aligns correctly. I get those feelings myself when I'm just shooting around, the elevation, release point is all spot on

“Flow” is also the experience Keegan described when he set the franchise 3-pt record a few nights ago. For any academic types, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi wrote entire books on flow that are routinely cited throughout social science research. So fun to see it happen right before our eyes when watching our favorite team.

 

[MizzouKing]

if this is the case, it makes me wonder why go through all they did to bring him over and sign him to three years? perhaps he will have more of a role after one full NBA season, who's to say. Injuries do happen too so he will stay ready I'm sure but from a psychological point of view, this is a tough transition to go through for him.

Absolutely. To go from being the euro league MVP to a bench warmer who’s primary job seems to be to pass the ball has got to be concerning for Sasha. I continue to scratch my head at why we spend so much time passing into the Huerter black hole waiting for him to heat up again when Sasha is - by far - the better shooter. yeah yeah, “earn your PT,” “just stay ready,” blah blah blah…I believe we’re squandering some phenomenal talent by not investing in more floor time. To his credit, Sasha has stayed positive and seemingly been a real team player during this drought.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I'm sure you all remember the incident when Brown quickly pulled Shasha from the floor a few games back. Shasha openly reacted negatively. After that, Shasha was benched with DNP-CD for a while as punishment, I suspect. And now he is relegated to garbage-time for humiliation.

I don't think this is Brown's MO to "punish" like that. That's just not consistent with how he treats his players.

Sasha may be being asked to work on specific things about his game or about learning/fitting into the offense before being given more rotation minutes. Humiliating professional adults is not in Brown's vocabulary. He doesn't play those stupid power games.

It's also the quickest way to lose a locker room. Brown is way smarter than that.

 

[Kingster]

That is like universe rule for every sport that exist

That's the universal rule for life itself.

 

[Kingster]

Regarding Sasha, the Kings "recruited" him from Europe, gushed over him, presumably told him how great he was and how he was going to fit into the Kings' system, and now what? I don't fault the Kings for wanting him as a low risk low cost addition to the team. But I do wonder now whether the Kings' credibility is shot. If there is another quality European player they want in a similar situation how will their overtures to sign with the Kings be received? My guess: not too well.

 

[Kingster]

It was nice to see the Kings play 48 minutes of defense. They haven't played defensively this well since the OKC game. It appears that Brown's shake- up to the lineup woke them out of their lazy slumber. I continue to be impressed with Brown.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Regarding Sasha, the Kings "recruited" him from Europe, gushed over him, presumably told him how great he was and how he was going to fit into the Kings' system, and now what? I don't fault the Kings for wanting him as a low risk low cost addition to the team. But I do wonder now whether the Kings' credibility is shot. If there is another quality European player they want in a similar situation how will their overtures to sign with the Kings be received? My guess: not too well.

Overpromising and under-delivering is a big risk here. I wonder how the communication is between Sasha and the staff... if he's being benched for legitimate reasons, hopefully he understands those. However I can certainly sympathize with Sasha... I personally would have liked to see him have a longer "leash" and be given more opportunity. Certainly more than Heurter... and I'm a Heurter fan. I wonder if there is something showing up in the advanced stats that warrants Heurter's extended leash, but not Sasha's?

I realize they play different positions, but Heurter was brought over in a trade for not a whole lot, and we immediately made him a key piece of our offense. He has sputtered this year a bit... but no such opportunity was given to Sasha, but I think it is warranted... unless there is some lack of learning going on with what is being asked of Sasha? I can't see it though.

Sasha has a dynamic offensive game and is much more than just a catch and shoot 3 pt shooter, but that's how he's being used right now. He's the kick part of drive n kicks. Seems to me he could be so much more.

 

[upinsmoke]

Vezenkov is being wasted here, and he knows it. He may already, via his agent, have asked for a trade. As you say, there are a lot of teams that could use him. The problem for the front office is not so much the return, but the concern for what will happen if one of the starters like Barnes, Murray, or Huerter gets injured. Or if Huerter or Barnes were traded. Then, all of a sudden, you need the guy and his sharp-shooting and cutting skills, plus good boxing out and rebounding. He pulls in significantly more rebounds per 36 minutes (7.2) than either Murray (5.9) or Huerter (5.2). Barnes' rebounding has fallen dramatically, to 3.7 per 36 minutes, from 4.9 last year, which in itself was rather poor for a forward.

The solution is simple for Sasha, outplay every F on the roster to the point where Brown can't bench him and everything will work out just perfectly for him.

 

[ick300]

The solution is simple for Sasha, outplay every F on the roster to the point where Brown can't bench him and everything will work out just perfectly for him.

And how does someone do this with 2/3 minutes per game …
And I don’t mean Vezenkov here but in general….
One F is constantly shooting 10/12 times from 3pt for ave 30 min per game , scoring less then 35% , other are shooting 1/2 per game with ave 10 mins and dropping per game ….
How can player B outplay player A ?

 

[upinsmoke]

And how does someone do this with 2/3 minutes per game …
And I don’t mean Vezenkov here but in general….
One F is constantly shooting 10/12 times from 3pt for ave 30 min per game , scoring less then 35% , other are shooting 1/2 per game with ave 10 mins and dropping per game ….
How can player B outplay player A ?

Play better. For the record I hope we trade him into something that helps balance the roster but if not he's good roster depth.

 

[twslam07]

And how does someone do this with 2/3 minutes per game …
And I don’t mean Vezenkov here but in general….
One F is constantly shooting 10/12 times from 3pt for ave 30 min per game , scoring less then 35% , other are shooting 1/2 per game with ave 10 mins and dropping per game ….
How can player B outplay player A ?

These guys also practice. That’s another way to outplay his competition. Obviously we don’t have insight to the practices though.

 

[ick300]

These guys also practice. That’s another way to outplay his competition. Obviously we don’t have insight to the practices though.

That is one very important mark, we can’t see them there … if you just see the highlights of the training I am sure even Edwards will be shown as top elite shooter ….
And in reality if he scores even he is surprised…

 

[ick300]

Play better. For the record I hope we trade him into something that helps balance the roster but if not he's good roster depth.

And you hope we trade him based on what ?
We haven’t seen more than 40/46% of what he can so far ….

 

[Srzly]

And how does someone do this with 2/3 minutes per game …
And I don’t mean Vezenkov here but in general….
One F is constantly shooting 10/12 times from 3pt for ave 30 min per game , scoring less then 35% , other are shooting 1/2 per game with ave 10 mins and dropping per game ….
How can player B outplay player A ?

There is more to basketball than scoring/shooting.

Also, if you’re referring to Keegan, those stats aren’t correct.

Sasha hasn’t really shown he deserves to play over anyone that’s getting significant minutes yet, except for maybe Kevin. The coaches also see practice and know how guys are performing.

It doesn’t help that he apparently had an outburst on the bench during a game… no coach will look favorably at that.

I like Sasha and would like to see him more but I don’t feel like he has played well enough to force anyone to lose minutes.

 

[Kingster]

Overpromising and under-delivering is a big risk here. I wonder how the communication is between Sasha and the staff... if he's being benched for legitimate reasons, hopefully he understands those. However I can certainly sympathize with Sasha... I personally would have liked to see him have a longer "leash" and be given more opportunity. Certainly more than Heurter... and I'm a Heurter fan. I wonder if there is something showing up in the advanced stats that warrants Heurter's extended leash, but not Sasha's?

I realize they play different positions, but Heurter was brought over in a trade for not a whole lot, and we immediately made him a key piece of our offense. He has sputtered this year a bit... but no such opportunity was given to Sasha, but I think it is warranted... unless there is some lack of learning going on with what is being asked of Sasha? I can't see it though.

Sasha has a dynamic offensive game and is much more than just a catch and shoot 3 pt shooter, but that's how he's being used right now. He's the kick part of drive n kicks. Seems to me he could be so much more.

My best guess on why Sasha isn't getting the minutes that Heurter is getting is Brown values Heurter's ability to release defensive pressure by his ability to dribble-drive and attack the basket or make a pass off the dribble. So far I haven't seen much of that from Sasha. On the other hand, I've seen Sasha getting the gritty 50-50 balls and the gritty rebounds, but not so much from Heurter. Both move without the ball very well. Both have certain defensive limitations, though like I said from my vantage point I've seen more in the grit department from Sasha. Each player has his pros and cons. My skepticism from the beginning was centered around overselling Sasha on his role with this team. If a mistake was made, it appears to me it was made in assessing Sasha's skill set and his potential contribution to the team.

A future trade could affect Sasha's minutes going forward. It's going to be interesting how it all pans out.

 

[upinsmoke]

And you hope we trade him based on what ?
We haven’t seen more than 40/46% of what he can so far ….

That's an assumption on your end and I explained myself in the post you quoted.

 

[ick300]

There is more to basketball than scoring/shooting.

Also, if you’re referring to Keegan, those stats aren’t correct.

Sasha hasn’t really shown he deserves to play over anyone that’s getting significant minutes yet, except for maybe Kevin. The coaches also see practice and know how guys are performing.

It doesn’t help that he apparently had an outburst on the bench during a game… no coach will look favorably at that.

I like Sasha and would like to see him more but I don’t feel like he has played well enough to force anyone to lose minutes.

I use Keegan’s stats yes , but I don’t mean him in particular that is why I use player A and B …
The way keegan is contributing to the team is out of question ….
But next to him I strongly believe Kings second best F is Vezenkov , and I dream to see
Sabonis , Fox , Monk , Murray , Vezenkov as a unit with Vezenkov and Lyles getting both more minutes but separate from each other and Duarte , Ellis/Mitchel as secondary guards and Len Center …
But hey , it’s only personal opinion and no one other then me cares about it

 

[Srzly]

I use Keegan’s stats yes , but I don’t mean him in particular that is why I use player A and B …
The way keegan is contributing to the team is out of question ….
But next to him I strongly believe Kings second best F is Vezenkov , and I dream to see
Sabonis , Fox , Monk , Murray , Vezenkov as a unit with Vezenkov and Lyles getting both more minutes but separate from each other and Duarte , Ellis/Mitchel as secondary guards and Len Center …
But hey , it’s only personal opinion and no one other then me cares about it

I think he’ll get time soon once some trades happen. Hopefully that’s the case.

 

[ick300]

I think he’ll get time soon once some trades happen. Hopefully that’s the case.

Let’s see
I have told a friend living at your place that sports over there and here and Europe are just with the same names but nothing more …
Normally in Europe when player is benched he get the trade not the minutes after the trade
I will be the happiest Kings fan if we start to see Vezenkov more , cause I will follow him whenever he plays , even Detroit if it has to be , but I will definitely continue to follow Kings , cause they become the team I really sympathise …
And with the exceptions of clippers and celtics so far I don’t see I team that is beating us in 7…
I am sure Brown will find the way for Pelicans , if they reach playoffs at all

 

[Remi]

OMG, I have seen maybe 2 comments here about praising Sabonis on triple double - like people are so used to them, that is nothing special.
But I see few pages of huge discussion about Sasha...
Well, I suggest you clear your minds and remmeber that not all European player carriers in NBA went well - there are many examples, of which I can point as best one - Europe MVP and legend there S. Jasikevicius (P.S. which is now very good coach and was even interview for a coach job in NBA too) - he had very crappy carrier in NBA and was basically sitting on the bench.

 

[iowamcnabb]

OMG, I have seen maybe 2 comments here about praising Sabonis on triple double - like people are so used to them, that is nothing special.
But I see few pages of huge discussion about Sasha...
Well, I suggest you clear your minds and remmeber that not all European player carriers in NBA went well - there are many examples, of which I can point as best one - Europe MVP and legend there S. Jasikevicius (P.S. which is now very good coach and was even interview for a coach job in NBA too) - he had very crappy carrier in NBA and was basically sitting on the bench.

Domas has two years of praise. We are talking about Sasha for obvious reason- he isn’t playing and we spent a year talking about his recruitment

 

[pdxKingsFan]

My understanding is every player on the Kings has a personal development coach so I suspect Sasha is getting open communication on what he needs to do.

I think we all know that a few trades are needed and it's incredibly hard to trade guys buried on the bench for poor play (see Holmes, Richaun) or guys that go into business for themselves on the court.

Something is probably going to have to give in our front court when we make a deal - either Barnes is out, or a team receiving Huerter or Davion is going to ask for one of the guys that isn't Barnes. I think Sahsa offers a lot of interesting stuff off ball on offense and should get non garbage time minutes and hope that we'll see more of that the second half of the season once the roster is finalized for the rest of the season.

 

[gunks]

Len was an afterthought until the end of last years regular season + playoffs where he suddenly became a crucial part of the rotation.

As others have said, Vezenkov just needs to stay ready. Personally, I'm hoping HB gets the boot. That'll free up PT for Vezenkov at the 4, even if he doesn't necessarily start.

 

[Padrino]

Does everybody remember those "contracts" Mike Brown makes every player sign that effectively establish their role on the team? I'm guessing the same conversation was had with Sasha. He knows what's expected of him. He likely understood heading into the season that there would be limited opportunities with so many NBA-ready forwards ahead of him in the rotation, but that he would need to stay ready and that the possibility of injuries and/or roster shakeups would free up more playing time.

 

[The_Jamal]

Huerter and Sasha don't play the same position. Huerter is a 2/3, Sasha is a 3/4. Sasha is competing with minutes with Keegan, HB and Lyles.

 

[Pacboy]

Does everybody remember those "contracts" Mike Brown makes every player sign that effectively establish their role on the team? I'm guessing the same conversation was had with Sasha. He knows what's expected of him. He likely understood heading into the season that there would be limited opportunities with so many NBA-ready forwards ahead of him in the rotation, but that he would need to stay ready and that the possibility of injuries and/or roster shakeups would free up more playing time.

One thing with Mike Brown is that you’re never completely out of the rotation. Davion was riding the bench for sometimes and just like that he’s back in the mix.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

One thing with Mike Brown is that you’re never completely out of the rotation. Davion was riding the bench for sometimes and just like that he’s back in the mix.

We just watched Holmes fall completely out of the rotation last season, without getting anymore playing time even when given a start and playing well.....and Len wasn't given a chance for most of last season, after having played well for the Kings prior.

The question is why is Mitchell back in the mix? It's not because Ellis was hurting the team or not doing what is expected of him. So to me, the answer lies somewhere deeper. I think the Kings have plans for Ellis and no longer have future plans for Mitchell

 

[iowamcnabb]

We just watched Holmes fall completely out of the rotation last season, without getting anymore playing time even when given a start and playing well.....and Len wasn't given a chance for most of last season, after having played well for the Kings prior.

The question is why is Mitchell back in the mix? It's not because Ellis starting hurting the team or not doing what is expected of him. So to me, the answer lies somewhere deeper. I think the Kings have plans for Ellis and no longer have future plans for Mitchell

I don’t know if you watched the presser or not but Brown said Keon was supposed to play against Atlanta. Mike didn’t consult with the other coaches on the change it was spur of the moment instinct to insert Davion. Likely only one of them is long for the team. They both bring defense but in different ways. Keon doesn’t really have any offense outside of catch and shoot 3s. Davion brings the ability to drive to the basket which I really like but can’t hit his threes yet. If I had to guess Keon sticks and Davion goes because Davion has the chance for a bigger role elsewhere and Ellis seems more suited for a bit part.

 

[ick300]

Guys , if we put aside the talks about trades for a moment , and focus on next two games …. Don’t you think it is logical to try to limit the starters versus Hornets to 20/22min and try to win it with more playing time for the second and thirds unit guys ?
I mean we are heading agains BB , again ….. both at are at home and first one is against one of the worst teams , while the second is against one of the over performing so far in the season …
Isn’t it a good idea to push hard in the first 7/8 with first unit , then try to play rest of time till 4th quarter with 2/3 unit and then if necessary of course put first again in 4th as much as possible ?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I don’t know if you watched the presser or not but Brown said Keon was supposed to play against Atlanta. Mike didn’t consult with the other coaches on the change it was spur of the moment instinct to insert Davion. Likely only one of them is long for the team. They both bring defense but in different ways. Keon doesn’t really have any offense outside of catch and shoot 3s. Davion brings the ability to drive to the basket which I really like but can’t hit his threes yet. If I had to guess Keon sticks and Davion goes because Davion has the chance for a bigger role elsewhere and Ellis seems more suited for a bit part.

A good defensive combo guard who uses their length effectively and has the ability to shoot the 3, has more value in the league. It's just the reality at this point.

and I do believe Ellis is a much better shooter than his current %. I expect him to settle in and improve there.