Ron Artest Top Player?

[Kingzrool]

Where do you place Ron as a player in the NBA?

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"He's better than I thought he was,'' Theus added. "He affects the game on both ends, and there's only about four or five guys that do that.''

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I definitely feel like I’m one of the top players in the game. I would say top seven. A lot of organizations feel that way too.

Ron truly is a minority in the NBA as far as being a player that affects the game both offensively and defensively. I read all the time that people feel that he really is one of the top players in the league. I also see that fans resent statements like the above from Ron. How do you feel?

 

[6th]

Ron is one of the top players who affects both ends of the court. As far as resenting that he says so.......no problem for me. Ron is Ron and I don't pay much attention to what he says. My only resentment comes when he tries to take over a game and forces too many shots. So, I do not resent what he says, but I sometimes resent what he does.

 

[fnordius]

I try to stay somewhat objective about members of my favorite franchise, despite how hard that can be to do, sometimes. Since I play fantasy basketball, I took a peek where he was ranked on Yahoo. 40th at the start of the season, 93rd now. That doesn't give him credit for getting that far despite having missed some games, and defensive players stats don't usually reflect their worth. In an effort to remove one of those variables, I looked at how he ranked in terms of productivity per minute. I don't like the PER stat, but... it would give me some kind of an idea. 71st place.

So, no matter how much I stretch things to cover intangibles, I can't make 40th-93rd and 71st combine to be top 7. I think he's probably above 40th, but not by a whole lot.

I don't resent his statement, though. I'm kind of used to it by now.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Numerically the poll is incorrect. If I think Artest is the 15th best player in the NBA then I could select "10-15" or "15-25." For that reason alone I won't participate. I do believe Artest is one of the top "3" defensive players in the league and maybe numero uno.

 

[Kingzrool]

Numerically the poll is incorrect. If I think Artest is the 15th best player in the NBA then I could select "10-15" or "15-25." For that reason alone I won't participate. I do believe Artest is one of the top "3" defensive players in the league and maybe numero uno.

haha.
Should I have fifty different options? You can already see the great divide. Come on select 1-5, you will be one of the few, so your vote will count.

I see what you are saying, but I cannot edit. If you think # 15, #20, etc pick the lower option please, unless a mod wants to edit?

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I think10-15, somewhere in that range, is about right. Ron definitely effects the game, both positively and negatively, but mostly for the positive, I must say. You get a 6'7/265 pound SF that gives you 19/6/4/2stls, and plays defense like he does, I'd say he deserves to be considered in the Top 10-15 players in the league, that's some pretty rare air, too...not too shabby.

 

[Bricklayer]

haha.
Should I have fifty different options? You can already see the great divide. Come on select 1-5, you will be one of the few, so your vote will count.

I'll edit to make the categories not overlap.

 

[Kingzrool]

I'll edit to make the categories not overlap.

Thanx.

 

[John Galt]

Kobe, Lebron, Howard, Duncan, Garnett... definitely not top 5
Nash, McGrady, Yao, Nowitzki, Stoudamine... definitely not top 10
Wade, Boozer, Paul, Davis, Iverson... I guess maybe in the top 15, stretching a bit.
So I will vote for 16-25

 

[VF21]

Interesting poll. I opted for the 16-25 primarily on the same line of reasoning as Francisco d'Anconia.

 

[dude12]

Kobe, Lebron, Howard, Duncan, Garnett... definitely not top 5
Nash, McGrady, Yao, Nowitzki, Stoudamine... definitely not top 10
Wade, Boozer, Paul, Davis, Iverson... I guess maybe in the top 15, stretching a bit.
So I will vote for 16-25

I like the reasoning here and can't disagree with the top 10 at all. The next set of 5, I think he fits in as I would put him behind Wade, Boozer, and Paul and group him with Baron Davis and Iverson. He certainly is a different player than those listed above whose offensive skills are their bread and butter for the most part, while Artest's value is his overall game.....11-15 or 15-20....It's all the same, meaning he's a top tier guy.

 

[Bricklayer]

Kobe, Lebron, Howard, Duncan, Garnett... definitely not top 5
Nash, McGrady, Yao, Nowitzki, Stoudamine... definitely not top 10
Wade, Boozer, Paul, Davis, Iverson... I guess maybe in the top 15, stretching a bit.
So I will vote for 16-25

Missing Arenas, Kidd, Pierce, Bosh as well as other guys like Allen, Melo, J. O'Neal, J. Johnson, V. Carter etc...

Which is how he ends up in that 16-25 range as usual. Can have an enormous impact on the game and be a huge issue for a team that relies on its SF to score, but remains inconsistent offensively and somebody you can't quite build around. That's before the nuttiness issues are factored in at all. Still an excellent player, and the best overall guy we have. In fact I thin thek the third best guy to have ever worn a Sacto uniform (Webb, Mitch). But not a franchise guy. At least not a good franchise.

 

[VF21]

...In fact I thin thek the third best guy to have ever worn a Sacto uniform (Webb, Mitch).

And how interesting is it that we got Webber by getting rid of Richmond?

 

[Bricklayer]

And how interesting is it that we got Webber by getting rid of Richmond?

Not entirely coincidence.

Goes back to those high draft picks -- we got ourselves an asset with huge value (#3 pick in the draft), traded it for another asset with huge value (Richmond), traded that for another asset with huge value (Webb) and traded that for another asset with huge value: Kenny Thomas.

 

[6th]

Not entirely coincidence.

Goes back to those high draft picks -- we got ourselves an asset with huge value (#3 pick in the draft), traded it for another asset with huge value (Richmond), traded that for another asset with huge value (Webb) and traded that for another asset with huge value: Kenny Thomas.

 

[VF21]

Not entirely coincidence.

Goes back to those high draft picks -- we got ourselves an asset with huge value (#3 pick in the draft), traded it for another asset with huge value (Richmond), traded that for another asset with huge value (Webb) and traded that for another asset with huge value: Kenny Thomas.

So you're saying if we get another asset with huge value we'll eventually trade him away for another Kenny Thomas?

Oh, just shoot me now.

If that's not an excellent reason to NEVER get another high draft pick, I don't know what is.

 

[Superman]

If we're taking everything into consideration, intangibles and all, then I have to say Ron is below 25. Which is where I voted.

The reason I voted that way is because no other "top" player in the NBA comes with the baggage and unpredicability that Ron Artest comes with. Yeah, most of them have egos, half of them have demanded/will demand a trade and distract their team (or the entire NBA), a third of them are very difficult to get along with, etc. But Ron is in a league of his own when it comes to his ability to completely derail his team.

Maybe I'm holding on to the past a bit too much here, but the Pacers were a contender when Ron got suspended for the brawl. The Kings weren't going anywhere last year, but Ron's off-court problems definitely didn't help us grow as a team.

So, because of his "combustibility", I have to downgrade his status as an NBA player. If not for that, I'd probably still only put him in the 16-25 range, and close to the bottom of that.

 

[Gary]

16-25.. Maybe below the top 25.

 

[ESP47]

I'd put him in the top 15. I'd take him over Stoudamire, Baron Davis and Iverson right now. Before his injury I would have taken Stoudamire, but not now.

Ron doesn't have the flashy offense or passing abilities that most of those guys have. His main abilities fall in between the stats we see in the box scores. How many times does he single handedly ruin the opposing teams fast break by slapping the ball away before the player lays it in? At least once a game. How many balls does he slap away that create steals for his teammates? At least 2-3 a game. Combine that with his defense that alters at least 3 or 4 shots a game to the point where they have no chance of going in. Along with 2 steals and 1 block per game. Thats about 10 to 11 trips down the court that he affects by himself on defense for the opposing team. None of our other players can barely even crack half of that. You put his defense into the stats and he plays like a 25ppg player.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Artest's biggest problem on the court is that he appears to think that he's really Kobe Bryant.

 

[VF21]

Au contraire, mon ami. Monsieur Artest's problem is that he thinks he's BETTER than Kobe Bryant...

 

[mac]

Artest is gonna score 60 or more points in 10 straight games to prove he's better than bryant

 

[venom_7]

Missing Arenas, Kidd, Pierce, Bosh as well as other guys like Allen, Melo, J. O'Neal, J. Johnson, V. Carter etc...

Which is how he ends up in that 16-25 range as usual. Can have an enormous impact on the game and be a huge issue for a team that relies on its SF to score, but remains inconsistent offensively and somebody you can't quite build around. That's before the nuttiness issues are factored in at all. Still an excellent player, and the best overall guy we have.

I dunno, I would take Ron over Vinsanity, Paul Pierce, Chris Bosh, and Joe Johnson.

 

[Entity]

I'm sorry but, I just plain like the guy. He is real. you never get a watered down version of him. He is who he is and don't hide behind a smoke screen. Since he came to Sacramento he has kept us a float. he has had 2 major problems that have been devistating to his team. A. the Brawl and B. the following year the trade demand in which he sat out. I highly doubt the domestic disturbance and the dog thing really impacted anybody on the Kings team the way some act like it did. You give me Ron Artest in the place of Peja vs. the lakers and we have a champioship. Can you imagine Webber passing out of double teams to Ron or vice versa.

 

[kupman]

Kobe, Lebron, Howard, Duncan, Garnett... definitely not top 5
Nash, McGrady, Yao, Nowitzki, Stoudamine... definitely not top 10
Wade, Boozer, Paul, Davis, Iverson... I guess maybe in the top 15, stretching a bit.
So I will vote for 16-25

I don't want to derail this thread, but.....

Wade 10-15?

C'mon - he is top 3 in my book...ahead of Duncan, Howard and Garnett.

 

[kupman]

Not entirely coincidence.

Goes back to those high draft picks -- we got ourselves an asset with huge value (#3 pick in the draft), traded it for another asset with huge value (Richmond), traded that for another asset with huge value (Webb) (edit )BLOWS KNEE OUT (end edit) and traded that for another asset with huge value: Kenny Thomas.

Sorry to edit the post Brick. It just seemed you left out a minor detail.

 

[Bricklayer]

Sorry to edit the post Brick. It just seemed you left out a minor detail.

You can play all the games you want but he could have blown out both knees and had an arm amputated and the original statement would not lose its irony.

 

[venom_7]

You can play all the games you want but he could have blown out both knees and had an arm amputated and the original statement would not lose its irony.

Ha that made me laugh

 

[John Galt]

I don't want to derail this thread, but.....

Wade 10-15?

C'mon - he is top 3 in my book...ahead of Duncan, Howard and Garnett.

Point was not to rank 1-15 but to list 15 guys better than Ron.

But I disagree - I would take a big stud over a little stud any any any any day of the week and twice Sunday.

But it wasn't the point of my post - I did that list fast and reckless off the top of my head pretty much.

 

[VF21]

I highly doubt the domestic disturbance and the dog thing really impacted anybody on the Kings team the way some act like it did.

You can highly doubt it but you'd be wrong. ANY time a major player is involved in events that are splashed all over the evening news, both locally and nationally, it has a tremendous impact on the team as they're continually having microphones shoved in their faces and asked questions about another player's personal life instead of being able to concentrate on the task at hand.

The fact it was Ron Artest, who already has more baggage than Samsonite, just made it worse. He can be the nicest guy in the world but he's still one little misstep away from derailing his career and causing the Kings more problems in the process. And the last thing the Kings need is more problems.

Very few people actually dislike Ron Artest. It's simply that he's fatally flawed and sooner or later everyone around him suffers because of it.