Recent streak provokes thoughts on Bibby's return...

[Showtime]

The Kings are playing very well at ARCO, and they have won 3 of their last 4, beating Houston, San Antonio, and Utah in the process. It seems that the team is learning from their mistakes that have cost them close games. Those mistakes, such as settling for outside shots instead of taking it to the rim, seem to have been corrected since the Golden State debacle. Attacking the rim is what kept them in the game tonight, and why they beat the Rockets on Saturday.

Now that the team seems to be learning and adjusting, and therefore improving, what happens when Bibby gets back?

I'm not saying that the team will take a dive, but hasn't the team learned anything from the past? When Webber went down with the big injury, Peja and company picked up the slack, and he was an early candidate for MVP that year. The team was on a roll and playing well, and when Webber was ready to come back, he wasn't very Duncan-esque. Tim, for those that don't remember a few years ago, offered to play comming off of the bench when he returned from injury. Webber though, didn't value that team chemistry very well, and there were a lot of critics that didn't like that move. The kings had some problems adjusting, and weren't the same team after he came back.

Now, we have a young, energetic team that is beating good teams (albiet at home), but when Mike is ready to return, do you think he will take a back seat to Beno, and will Theus take control with an "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach? Or will Bibby insist on starting, and Theus letting him take the reigns?

I would hope that Mike and Theus realize how well the team is playing, and how they have improved lately, and put team success over ego. Or, maybe they want Mike in as soon as possible so that his trade value will rise and they can move him before the deadline. I don't know, but it will be very interesting to see how this team plays with a shooting point guard, instead of a playmaker.

 

[piksi]

I am confused

 

[RaY Z]

we are on a nice little streak....

but its way to early to compare us to some of the kings teams in the past few years... in fact you probably shouldnt on the sole basis of the roster we have now compared to the rosters we had a few seasons ago...

ou should repost this when in a months time if we are playing well, in the top 8 of the west and are on a winning streak or a roll.

 

[tyrant]

When bibby gets back we will be better. The offense will never be stagnant. 2 point guards that can run the offense. I'm not worried at all. When is bibbys return anyway? Aint it time??

 

[RaY Z]

nope... in the recent interview he had... he said its gonna gonna be 5-6 more weeks, where he has just had his cast taken off...

he mentioned that he didnt want to rush back, as he didnt want to miss a further 6 weeks if he reinjures it again...

 

[Showtime]

we are on a nice little streak....

but its way to early to compare us to some of the kings teams in the past few years... in fact you probably shouldnt on the sole basis of the roster we have now compared to the rosters we had a few seasons ago...

ou should repost this when in a months time if we are playing well, in the top 8 of the west and are on a winning streak or a roll.

I wasn't comparing the teams themselves or their situations, but rather the impact of a returning star. Yeah, the team in 04 was in a totally different situation, with championship contention, and a stacked roster, and this year's team is playing for a .500 record and trying to rebuild. But what I was comparing was how a main player returning from injury could effect the team chemistry.

This team is just hoping to reach for a .500 record, and I'm a realist. I know Bibby's return won't have that big of an impact on the team, because the team isn't going anywhere this season. But what I was getting at is that since this team is rebuilding, and trying to develop the younger guys and improve, would the Kings really be better off benching Beno? IMO, The kings should look to re-sign Beno and move Mike, and if that happens, Beno is the guy that is going to run the team, so shouldn't he remain the starter? I just don't see the point of starting Bibby, unless, as I mentioned, it is to increase his value to move him.

 

[VF21]

I wasn't comparing the teams themselves or their situations, but rather the impact of a returning star. Yeah, the team in 04 was in a totally different situation, with championship contention, and a stacked roster, and this year's team is playing for a .500 record and trying to rebuild. But what I was comparing was how a main player returning from injury could effect the team chemistry.

This team is just hoping to reach for a .500 record, and I'm a realist. I know Bibby's return won't have that big of an impact on the team, because the team isn't going anywhere this season. But what I was getting at is that since this team is rebuilding, and trying to develop the younger guys and improve, would the Kings really be better off benching Beno? IMO, The kings should look to re-sign Beno and move Mike, and if that happens, Beno is the guy that is going to run the team, so shouldn't he remain the starter? I just don't see the point of starting Bibby, unless, as I mentioned, it is to increase his value to move him.

The impact of a returning star?

Dude, we just lost Kevin Martin for at least a month, meaning he and Mike will be keeping each other company until 2008. At this point, thinking the team chemistry might be impacted negatively by Mike's return is just ... well ... like trying to pick the winner of the 5th race at a track that hasn't been built yet.

 

[Showtime]

When bibby gets back we will be better. The offense will never be stagnant. 2 point guards that can run the offense. I'm not worried at all. When is bibbys return anyway? Aint it time??

Bibby hasn't been a playmaker since his Grizz days. Webber/Vlade/Miller were the ones the offense ran through, and Bibby has been a jumpshooter with the pick-and-pop for years. Beno plays like Mike did in his Vancouver days, with penetration and playmaking ability, combined with jumpshooting. IMO, the offense won't be better, just different.

It's not like Bibby can't penetrate and finish, it's just that he doesn't want to. Over the past few years, whenever Mike gets into the paint, he looks for the foul with wild flopping instead of trying to make the basket. I just think this team has enough guys that look to take thier own shots, and they need a guy like Beno running things instead of another shooter.

 

[Showtime]

The impact of a returning star?

Dude, we just lost Kevin Martin for at least a month, meaning he and Mike will be keeping each other company until 2008. At this point, thinking the team chemistry might be impacted negatively by Mike's return is just ... well ... like trying to pick the winner of the 5th race at a track that hasn't been built yet.

First of all, I haven't heard that Martin is out for a month. Here's my point: since the kings aren't going anywhere and the team is trying to develop their talent, doesn't having Beno start at the point make more sense than starting a guy who won't be there next season? I'm NOT saying Mike will make this team worse. I'm saying he isn't going to make this team BETTER, because this team is going NOWHERE this season. They aren't making the playoffs, so the only reason to start Mike is so they can move him.

 

[swisshh]

It may disrupt things, but that isn't a big worry when we're talking about a player that I doubt lasts the rest of the season on the roster. Or at least he shouldn't. Right now, a point guard is one thing a few contending teams need and as such, Bibby is trade bait(but expensive trade bait).

So if he comes back and fits in it boosts his trade value. If he comes back and things fall off then that is a higher draft pick and he is getting moved anyways.

 

[VF21]

Showtime - Kevin will be out 4 to 6 weeks. As for the rest, you're entitled to your opinion. I just don't happen to agree with it for the simple reason we don't know what's going to happen between now and then.

 

[RaY Z]

like VF21 said...

all in all we absolutely have no idea what will happen to the chemistry when bibby returns. heck we wont even know how the team will be playing (whether good, bad or inconsistent) when bibby returns. who knows, maybe by the time bibby returns we have close to zero chemistry at all and we are the worst team in the league, where in that case the return of bibby could improve our chemistry. or it could be the other way around, where we are playing well and are one of the top teams in the leagues, where bibby could disrupt the chemistry.

sure we could put up assumptions (like i just have, albiet only examples), for what you are saying but it would probably be a little pointless, especially this early time of the season.

 

[Showtime]

Showtime - Kevin will be out 4 to 6 weeks. As for the rest, you're entitled to your opinion. I just don't happen to agree with it for the simple reason we don't know what's going to happen between now and then.

I know where the team isn't going this year...the playoffs. So I'm looking at the reasons why some decisions are made. I'm trying to look at both sides, and I was just looking for opinions.

 

[VF21]

The whole situation will change drastically without Kevin Martin in the mix. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Showtime]

like VF21 said...

all in all we absolutely have no idea what will happen to the chemistry when bibby returns. heck we wont even know how the team will be playing (whether good, bad or inconsistent) when bibby returns. who knows, maybe by the time bibby returns we have close to zero chemistry at all and we are the worst team in the league, where in that case the return of bibby could improve our chemistry. or it could be the other way around, where we are playing well and are one of the top teams in the leagues, where bibby could disrupt the chemistry.

sure we could put up assumptions (like i just have, albiet only examples), for what you are saying but it would probably be a little pointless, especially this early time of the season.

I don't know what's going to happen, and I'm not saying I do, and that's why I made this thread. I'm looking for people's opinions on what they think would or should happen with that situation.

 

[RaY Z]

like i said... people can put up assumptions and opinions.

like i am now, where im saying (in my opinion), it would be pointless to put assumptions/opinions up, with this discussion. however like i said this is my opinion and im not gonna stop anyone in putting up theyre opinions with what you have just posted up.

 

[Showtime]

like i said... people can put up assumptions and opinions.

like i am now, where im saying (in my opinion), it would be pointless to put assumptions/opinions up, with this discussion. however like i said this is my opinion and im not gonna stop anyone in putting up theyre opinions with what you have just posted up.

So..your opinion is that speculation is pointless...on a basketball message board? OK. I was under the impression that pointless speculation is acceptable. I didn't know everybody here were reporters that only discussed things that actually happened instead of engaging in a discussion.

 

[fiction916]

if you posted this thread yesterday, before the Martin injury, and asked, if Bibby was coming back tomorrow, would you want to start him? I think I would say no. but in 5-6 weeks... sheeet

 

[RaY Z]

no what im saying is (in my opinion once again) that speculation in this topic (whether bibby or not will disrupt chemistry) is pointless.

and i have given my reasons with my earlier posts to why i think it is pointless, and thats pretty much my view on this topic.

 

[VF21]

So..your opinion is that speculation is pointless...on a basketball message board? OK. I was under the impression that pointless speculation is acceptable. I didn't know everybody here were reporters that only discussed things that actually happened instead of engaging in a discussion.

Your entire premise is based on a set of facts NO LONGER IN EVIDENCE. The "recent streak" you spoke of included Kevin Martin in the mix. That's no longer the case - for at least 4 to 6 weeks. Revise your initial premise and perhaps there will be something to talk about.

What some of us are saying is that we now no longer have a "recent streak of wins" to talk about. We haven't won anything with Martin on the bench injured. Let's see what happens as they fill the void his injury has caused and then see if it's something that Bibby's return MIGHT have a negative impact on.

Um-kay?

 

[Showtime]

Your entire premise is based on a set of facts NO LONGER IN EVIDENCE. The "recent streak" you spoke of included Kevin Martin in the mix. That's no longer the case - for at least 4 to 6 weeks. Revise your initial premise and perhaps there will be something to talk about.

What some of us are saying is that we now no longer have a "recent streak of wins" to talk about. We haven't won anything with Martin. Let's see what happens as they fill the void his injury has caused and then see if it's something that Bibby's return MIGHT have a negative impact on.

Um-kay?

There, you see? It isn't that hard to come up with an opinion on the subject!

Now, for my response:

I never said Martin was a major factor, as you say was part of my 'evidence'. If you recall, when Artest (arguably the team's best player and defender) was out, the team was playing with effort and playing better with their zone defense and fastbreak play when Salmons was at the 3 and putting up 20/6/6. I know Garcia and Salmons can play more minutes and step up and contribute in Martin's absence, so IMO, my discussion about the topic about Bibby's return isn't pointless.

 

[fiction916]

hey, showtime, I love speculating - keep it up.

 

[RaY Z]

There, you see? It isn't that hard to come up with an opinion on the subject!

she already did, by saying it was to early to tell, like i did. my opinion was its to early to tell what bibby will do to our chemistry based on the sole fact that we dont know what will happen between then and now.

 

[Showtime]

she already did, by saying it was to early to tell, like i did. my opinion was its to early to tell what bibby will do to our chemistry based on the sole fact that we dont know what will happen between then and now.

I understand that. You are under the misconception that I don't know that it's pointless speculation. I know the eventuality is uncertain, and I know it's pointless speculation, I just don't care.

Oh, and forgive me if you weren't under that misconception, because I just assumed you were based on how you are repeating the same thing in your posts.

 

[Packt]

Bibby hasn't been a playmaker since his Grizz days. Webber/Vlade/Miller were the ones the offense ran through, and Bibby has been a jumpshooter with the pick-and-pop for years. Beno plays like Mike did in his Vancouver days, with penetration and playmaking ability, combined with jumpshooting. IMO, the offense won't be better, just different.

It's not like Bibby can't penetrate and finish, it's just that he doesn't want to. Over the past few years, whenever Mike gets into the paint, he looks for the foul with wild flopping instead of trying to make the basket. I just think this team has enough guys that look to take thier own shots, and they need a guy like Beno running things instead of another shooter.

When will this stop. The offense we ran then used Bibby a certain way, so what. His shots were coming from within the offense, that's all that matters. The sacrifice lead to some of the most entertaining basketball ever and yet it's now frowned upon because he wasn't a huge assists player. Even though he supposedly wasn't running the team, he's still always managed to average around 5 assist, with the team always in the 20's.
Last year he took 14 shots and dished out 4 assists. Those numbers are similar to Beno's numbers as of right now.

Beno is the better penetrator and Mike has the better outside shot. It remains to be seen who's game is more suited for this current team. For all this talk of Beno running the team soo good that Mike might ruin things, Beno has only managed the 4 assists and we're still a horrible assist team. There's nothing about this team that says "let's not mess with it". Team is broke.

 

[RaY Z]

I understand that. You are under the misconception that I don't know that it's pointless speculation. I know the eventuality is uncertain, and I know it's pointless speculation, I just don't care.

Oh, and forgive me if you weren't under that misconception, because I just assumed you were based on how you are repeating the same thing in your posts.

which is exactly what your doing now

pointless speculation or not, its still my opinion, and thank you for respecting it like i have resepcted yours for posting my opinion in your post/topic.

 

[swisshh]

When will this stop. The offense we ran then used Bibby a certain way, so what. His shots were coming from within the offense, that's all that matters. The sacrifice lead to some of the most entertaining basketball ever and yet it's now frowned upon because he wasn't a huge assists player. Even though he supposedly wasn't running the team, he's still always managed to average around 5 assist, with the team always in the 20's.
Last year he took 14 shots and dished out 4 assists. Those numbers are similar to Beno's numbers as of right now.

I'm not sure the point of saying this. I don't think the idea was to detriment the type of offense we ran and what Bibby did, but if Bibby can work with the type of players we have now.

As for the numbers, they are different situations and Bibby handled the ball more last year than Beno does now. The question is that this offense is based off of drives to the baskets and pick n rolls, and Bibby has lost a step and become complacent in settling for the first jumper he can find.

Before the injuries, the nice thing Theus was doing was running a wing split with Bibby and Martin moving off of Miller at the corner high post, forcing the defense to sag back to protect against the pass to the cutting Martin or keep close to watch for Bibby's jumper. We won't see that for a month though.

 

[Kingster]

Now that the team seems to be learning and adjusting, and therefore improving, what happens when Bibby gets back?


I hope they trade him. And trade Artest. Stick to the plan - Go young, go athletic, go for greatness, not mediocrity ad infinitum.

 

[Alacron]

Maybe we should wait until our first road win before gushing about how well the team is playing.

0-7, same as the Knicks!

 

[Ryan]

I honestly haven't watched enough games this year to make judgment. (once I get enough disposable income I’ll get league pass).

Webber messed us up back in 04 because he slowed us down and got us out of rhythm. Up to that point we were a finesse team with peja running on the perimeter. Webber came back and tried to add power to the game, which he clearly didn't have.

But then again, it's only been three games. Wake me up if we win the next 6 of 7