Purple Reign says "I Changed My Feelings, I Like This Trade"

[Gtronic]

My feeling's haven't changed. I loved it from the start, and I love it even more now.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well, now they said the first round is good enough. That's too bad, I thought there was a chance this year.

Whats the difference! With the contract situation we had we would have just spiraled further and further into mediocrity, and never been able to have any depth. Look at our record against the top teams, did we really have a chance!!?? Teams like the Suns, Spurs, and Sonics were able to exploit all of our weaknesses and were a matchup nightmare before. There was a chance but I wouldn't have bet my life on it.

I think if everything gets together, which is still a 50/50 we will have a better chance.

 

[Kingsgurl]

All teams trade players with the exception of a few,, I.E. Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan and Larry Bird.... Webber(ex-king) or any other Kings players do not and will not ever fit into that catagory. This new bunch of players I like because they bring the hustle that was lacking for the past year.

If you read her post carefully, you will see her objections were to the TIMING of the trade, mid-season, switching horses in mid-stream, as it were. I think it puts the 'new' Kings at a disadvantge for the rest of the season as well. Too much shake up, not enough time left before the play offs to sort it all out.

 

[Heuge]

Whats the difference! With the contract situation we had we would have just spiraled further and further into mediocrity, and never been able to have any depth. Look at our record against the top teams, did we really have a chance!!?? Teams like the Suns, Spurs, and Sonics were able to exploit all of our weaknesses and were a matchup nightmare before. There was a chance but I wouldn't have bet my life on it.

I think if everything gets together, which is still a 50/50 we will have a better chance.

Im with Double, I would like to have seen us play more games with Bobby. Over the last 3 years, he has been our "x" factor. I think we would have done well in the PO. San Antoinio would have been a battle.

I still dont like the trade.

 

[SacTownKid]

Rebounding margin this year:

-2.2

Rebounding margin last year:

-2.7

Stats don't tell the whole story. Just like saying Webber averages 9 rebounds a game so he must be a great rebounder! Not so. He gets flat footed rebounds and this year we couldn't get those crucial rebounds, like last night for example. I don't care if we get 500 rebounds, if we lose that last rebound that costs us the game that is what counts.

 

[SacTownKid]

Im with Double, I would like to have seen us play more games with Booby. Over the last 3 years, he has been our "x" factor. I think we would have done well in the PO. San Antoinio would have been a battle.

I still dont like the trade.

booby...heh heh...you said...booby.

I would have loved to see Bobby too, but the reality is that he isn't here and according to Grant and Jerry during Sundays commentary expecting him to be back at all this year is unlikely. Hope they are wrong but they said it. We would have done well in the playoffs but winning a championship is the idea. If we didn't win it this year we certainly were not going to do it the next. and the next.

 

[love_them_kings]

Were you not watching last postseason?

THAT was the hope. We turn up the defense, we still have the offensive firepower, Webb is desperate to win a title, Peja maybe looking for playoff redemption. And we have tons of experience together. That was our hope this year.

Exactly!! We have always had a way of stepping it up in the playoffs, and I believe that with Webb in there we had a legitimate (although admittedly not LARGE) chance of taking it this year. My feelings on the trade have been pretty consistent. I am disappointed that this trade happened, and especially at the timing. Had they let this team play through the playoffs and we didn't perform, then maybe you make this trade (or another, depending on the playoff performances of all players) in the summer, but ripping apart a team with so much potential midway through the season just doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, I like the new guys. Contrary to my original (and extremely emotional) opinion, I am glad to see that we did not trade Webb for "nothing". I have been especially impressed by Skinner's performance and they are all solid role players. What they are not (IMHO) is the difference maker in a championship run, and I think Webb, with his passion and experience, could have been that.

I am glad to see the revitalized atmosphere in Arco, but as several have mentioned, that is partially a result of lowered expectations. We no longer take for granted every win, and we no longer complain if we don't "beat teams by 20 points" as some people thought we needed to do when Webb was in there. But if our expectations have been lowered then that really (for me) speaks to what this trade has done to our chances this year. This year, this trade has not increased our championship chances, and isn't that what our goal has always been?? Long term this trade may be a great thing, but I think that this season it has compromised this years goal for future goals. That's okay, sometimes that needs to happen, but I wasn't ready to see it happen.

 

[Bricklayer]

Stats don't tell the whole story. Just like saying Webber averages 9 rebounds a game so he must be a great rebounder! Not so. He gets flat footed rebounds and this year we couldn't get those crucial rebounds, like last night for example. I don't care if we get 500 rebounds, if we lose that last rebound that costs us the game that is what counts.

Oh bull hookie -- stats DO tell the story when the story is as simple as do you rebound or not. Last year Vlade's rebounding was terrible, and our frontcourt reserves for most of the year (Darius and Mass) sucked as well. We were running a 6'4" OG )Peeler) as a backup SF. Then Webb came back and was not himself. Throw all of that together and our margin fell way off. We were a bad rebounding and defensive team ALL year long last year until the playoffs when we stepped it up, and people can try to spin that all they want, but its a FACT.

P.S. BTW, I'm getting more than a little tired of all the shrill claims about how this 10reb guy in our system is worse than that 10reb guy in our system. Again, Bull hookie. Webb would not chase down a ball near the sideline, but his odds were BETTER at coming up with a tough rebound in traffic in the paint because of his superior size, length and of course those great hands.

 

[LMM]

Observations:

1) we have gotten worse at the PF spot.
2) Peja has NOT suddnely blossomed without Webb
3) our defensive and rebounding focus the last couple of games has not been about the new guys over Webber, but really about one new guy (Skinner) and one old guy (Evans) over Miller and Mobley
4) our overall performance is no better than it was before
5) the offense (high post in particular) is broken
6) the defensive intensity (Skinner at C in particular) has been excellent the last couple of games
7) people are back to being happy over any win. Nice to see, but a subconscious acknowledgement of something.
8) offense should be ok once everybody is healthy, but is more vulnerable to injury now.
9) when our offensive players come back and take the minutes, where goes the defense?
10) Brian Skinner has never shown the ability to be a 3-4 blk sort of player, or anything remotely close. How long can he keep it up?
11) Mo Evans over Mobley has actually almost singlehandedly been the rebounding difference these last couple of games -- swap out Mo's 11.5 rbes/gm for Mobley customary 3rebs/game and we are right back where we normally are.
12) Skinner is now the main man in the trade -- he always was the one who was the closest thing to what we needed (defender/rebounder/big tough body). Contract is too big, but might be a keeper. Corliss looks to be gone -- way way too much money for a short minute backup with limitations. KT is on the bubble, has talent but just too small and again too much contract for a reserve.
13) Still do not like the trade (although Skinner's somebody who we could obviously have used all year). Have seen nothing to indicate we're more of a threat now than we were, quite the opposite actually. But am ok with that for the moment. Can't go back, and now the question becomes whether Petrie can rescue us from 50windom with some more moves in the offseason, or whether we are stuck at just another playoff team level.

good observations. i feel the same way.

 

[SacTownKid]

Bottom line is either way it was a gamble. The Maloofs and Petrie thought that it wasn't a sure bet to win it all this year and record wise it showed that it very well might have been that it wasn't. They needed to get rid of Webber's deal so they did. They would never have been able to overcome the liabilities in the future otherwise. This trade is obviously more for the future than it is now. I just happen to believe that this team has just as good a shot at winning it all this year as before the trade. Of course that is if, in this very limited time, these guys can get it together. Will they? we shall see. Its going to be a very interesting last quarter of the season.

 

[SacTownKid]

Oh bull hookie -- stats DO tell the story when the story is as simple as do you rebound or not. Last year Vlade's rebounding was terrible, and our frontcourt reserves for most of the year (Darius and Mass) sucked as well. We were running a 6'4" OG )Peeler) as a backup SF. Then Webb came back and was not himself. Throw all of that together and our margin fell way off. We were a bad rebounding and defensive team ALL year long last year until the playoffs when we stepped it up, and people can try to spin that all they want, but its a FACT.

P.S. BTW, I'm getting more than a little tired of all the shrill claims about how this 10reb guy in our system is worse than that 10reb guy in our system. Again, Bull hookie. Webb would not chase down a ball near the sideline, but his odds were BETTER at coming up with a tough rebound in traffic in the paint because of his superior size, length and of course those great hands.

Bull HOOKIE!! Compare the types of rebounds Webber gets and the kind Skinner and Thomas get. I would take Skinner and Kenny in a rebounding contest over webb anyday.

Were you watching Webber this season!!! I saw the GS/Philly game last night and I truly forgot how immoble Chris is until I saw it with new eyes. And if stats are the key how are we doing on the boards since the trade as compared to before???

 

[uolj]

Were you watching Webber this season!!! I saw the GS/Philly game last night and I truly forgot how immoble Chris is until I saw it with new eyes. And if stats are the key how are we doing on the boards since the trade as compared to before???

Your questions have already been answered.

Quick refresher - Webber gets rebounds with his size, length and hands, despite a lack of mobility.

Stats since the trade are more likely due to Skinner and Evans replacing Miller and Mobley in the lineup.

 

[SacTownKid]

Your questions have already been answered.

Quick refresher - Webber gets rebounds with his size, length and hands, despite a lack of mobility.

Stats since the trade are more likely due to Skinner and Evans replacing Miller and Mobley in the lineup.

I am not arguing whether Webber gets more rebounds over all, just the fact that the rebounds he got were without mobility like you said. We have a guy named Brad Miller and he is not all that mobile either. At least now we have a guy at the 4 spot who can run down the ball or leap to get a rebound when the game is on the line.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

12) Skinner is now the main man in the trade -- he always was the one who was the closest thing to what we needed (defender/rebounder/big tough body). Contract is too big, but might be a keeper. Corliss looks to be gone -- way way too much money for a short minute backup with limitations. KT is on the bubble, has talent but just too small and again too much contract for a reserve...

Kind of makes you wonder why Petrie didn't just go after him this offseason instead of signing Ostertag in the first place, and saving four million dollars.

Positives: better rebounding, more athletic lineups (we actually have people who can dunk now and we have more fastbreak opportunities), better depth, less mismatch opportunities for other teams.

Negatives: the guys distributing the ball from the post are not nearly as good at that as Webber was, some even have trouble keeping the ball in their hands... Note, this is a BIG negative, because that is how Sacramento runs their offense; my hope is that this will change when Miller returns.

sloter acknowledges an aspect of Webber's game as a positive?

:: dies of shock ::

 

[G_M]

Kind of makes you wonder why Petrie didn't just go after him this offseason instead of signing Ostertag in the first place, and saving four million dollars.

Depending on who you believe the Kings tried to sign Vlade. I'm not sure Petrie was ever looking at Skinner but I think he probably signed with Philly before the Kings signed Ostertag. Tag was only signed after the Vlade deal did not come together.

 

[SacTownKid]

Depending on who you believe the Kings tried to sign Vlade. I'm not sure Petrie was ever looking at Skinner but I think he probably signed with Philly before the Kings signed Ostertag. Tag was only signed after the Vlade deal did not come together.

I think, looking back it was probably a really good idea they decided not aggresively go after Vlade. I heard they wanted to give Vlade no more than 2 mil. a year. He went to LA for double.

 

[love_them_kings]

I think, looking back it was probably a really good idea they decided not aggresively go after Vlade. I heard they wanted to give Vlade no more than 2 mil. a year. He went to LA for double.

not to mention that Vlade hasn't exactly had a stellar season with injuries.

 

[Warhawk]

Bottom line is either way it was a gamble. The Maloofs and Petrie thought that it wasn't a sure bet to win it all this year and record wise it showed that it very well might have been that it wasn't. They needed to get rid of Webber's deal so they did. They would never have been able to overcome the liabilities in the future otherwise. This trade is obviously more for the future than it is now. I just happen to believe that this team has just as good a shot at winning it all this year as before the trade. Of course that is if, in this very limited time, these guys can get it together. Will they? we shall see. Its going to be a very interesting last quarter of the season.

Agreed. We seemed to be struggling more this year and were less consistent (I think Webber sitting out every practice and every other game when we had multiple back-to-backs didn't help much). I do not think we had as good a chance as last year to make the finals with the improvements in the west and now was the time to start making adjustments for the future. How this impacts this year's PO? Nobody can say because we don't know:

1. What would our seeding have been with Webber?
2. What is our seeding going to be now?
3. How these changes of seedings impacts the rest of the seeds in the west and who plays who in the first rounds and obviously every round after?
4. Does Webber get injured again before the PO this year (or just wear down too much to where he can't play even if he doesn't "reinjure" anything as he is not taking games off now like he did here)?
5. Does this team "gel" before the PO?
6. Possibly more importantly, does this team get healthy before the PO?

I think this trade makes us more competitive against some teams (the more athletic, active ones) and possibly less competitive against others, but until this team gets some practice time and more games under the belt, this trade is impossible to really analyze.

Gut instinct - I like the trade as we get the potential liability that is Webber (knee and contract) moved and get faster and more athletic. Yes, we lose some capabilities and consistency (although some of his shooting nights were not that great, either). I think this trade will make this team work harder to be good and forge a new identity for themselves.

The full ramifications of this trade will not be determined until this season is over and we see what happens with everyone involved. It may not be until Webber's contract has expired (or he gets injured again - and I hope he doesn't) until we'll get a grand view of what went right and wrong as a result.

If we get bounced in the second round - same result as last year. If we make it to the Finals? If we get bounced in the first round? If we win the whole thing? Who's to say where we would have been w/o the trade? If Webber is injured at the beginning of next year (no matter how we would have done this year) and we are hamstrung for the next 2 with his salary? NOBODY KNOWS, AND CANNOT KNOW! In the end, we all have our opinions, but they don't mean much without the knowledge about how the next 3 seasons play out.

 

[NewEraKings05]

I never doubted and I never waned. My heart was always with the Sacramento Kings team and my allegiance always will be.

I don't think there is anything wrong with eventually changing your mind, because essentially, if you love the name on the front more than you love the name on the back - you will.

I am so pumped, and I don't care if the Kings get removed from the first round. I am a Kings fan and I truly believe that Petrie will do what needs to be done to make this team once again a huge threat to any other team and the Championship!!

GOOOOOOOOOO KIIIINNNGSSSSSSS!!

 

[KP]

If the question is, are we better without Chris and the 3 new guys? I would say no. But if the question was are we as bad off as you(me) thought we would be? I would have to say no to. BTW saying the #12 ranked reb in the NBA isn't a good rebounder is just stupid. Niether C-Webb or Matt Barnes for that matter, were ever part of the rebounding problem on this team.

 

[uolj]

I don't think there is anything wrong with eventually changing your mind, because essentially, if you love the name on the front more than you love the name on the back - you will.

Not true at all. If you love the name on the front, you want them to win, but you can still disagree with their decisions. I didn't like the drafting of Pervis Ellison, I still haven't changed my mind, and I doubt I ever will, but I still love the team.

GOOOOOOOOOO KIIIINNNGSSSSSSS!!

This we can agree on.

 

[NewEraKings05]

Not true at all. If you love the name on the front, you want them to win, but you can still disagree with their decisions. I didn't like the drafting of Pervis Ellison, I still haven't changed my mind, and I doubt I ever will, but I still love the team.
This we can agree on.

Yeah, I know you are right about that. I am just totally jazzed, and I just wish everyone could feel as elated as me right now.

YESSSS!! GOOO KIIINNGGGSS!!

 

[KingKong]

I hated the trade when it took place. However, I will reserve judgement until they play some more games and until we have everyone back in the lineup. I don't believe one can really tell what to make of this team with integral players out with injuries. This team still needs an identity. Things that I do love about this trade is that we have become a tougher team. More hustle, rebounding and blocking with the new aquisitions. Our frontcourt depth has greatly improved. Arco thunder is back, where we don't expect to win every game now. But what I'm really loving is the emergence of Mike Bibby. This guy has won at the college level and I think with him at the helm, we can go far. I guess what i'm saying is at first, the trade seemed a deplorable move by Petrie, to a point where I called our new guys scrubs, for which i'm sorry. But I think , with some more practise and time together everything will work out and we might be even stronger than when we started out.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I have to say that the trade does not look as bad now as it did when it happend. Was it "good for the team" for this season or in the long run for next season? Obviously it is too early to tell.

 

[Evenstar]

i wasn't a trade hater or lover, i was pretty neutral, shocked for the most part. half of me was like WOAH. this is our heart, our soul, the man who made the kings the kings. he's still 20-10-5 on one leg. the other half was like woah, we got out of that contract. i have nothing agianst webber. it was his contract that scared the bejezuess out of me. knowing that his age and salary was going to increase while in all likely hood the production was going to go down, that just scared me. the possibility of a max contract crippling the franchise financially scared me. so in that regards, i was relieved. it really shocked me when i read that caption on the bottomline on espn.

now is it a good trade??? that still has yet to be revealed. so far, the new guys are hustling more. skinner has been playing great, thomas has looked good, so has corliss. theres more hustling, more blocked shots, more energy, quickness and athletcism. but it's still way too soon to tell. peja isn't playing, brad and cat are still hurt, and we haven't even seen bobby in a while. getting all those players back, healthy and time to gel, i do think this can be a great team. championship calibur??? who knows. only time will tell.

 

[6th]

I have to say that the trade does not look as bad now as it did when it happend. Was it "good for the team" for this season or in the long run for next season? Obviously it is too early to tell.

I am with you, HndsmCelt. I am looking more "long term" but, I'll take anything good for this season as well. Only time will tell, however.

 

[EmKingsFan4]

good observations. i feel the same way.

Me too. I'm getting a bit concerned for our offensive game. We average around 100 points a game and to only score 85 in our last game is a big difference. Now it may be just a fluke thing, and I suppose time will tell.

 

[Gary]

Observations:

1) we have gotten worse at the PF spot.
2) Peja has NOT suddnely blossomed without Webb
3) our defensive and rebounding focus the last couple of games has not been about the new guys over Webber, but really about one new guy (Skinner) and one old guy (Evans) over Miller and Mobley
4) our overall performance is no better than it was before
5) the offense (high post in particular) is broken
6) the defensive intensity (Skinner at C in particular) has been excellent the last couple of games
7) people are back to being happy over any win. Nice to see, but a subconscious acknowledgement of something.
8) offense should be ok once everybody is healthy, but is more vulnerable to injury now.
9) when our offensive players come back and take the minutes, where goes the defense?
10) Brian Skinner has never shown the ability to be a 3-4 blk sort of player, or anything remotely close. How long can he keep it up?
11) Mo Evans over Mobley has actually almost singlehandedly been the rebounding difference these last couple of games -- swap out Mo's 11.5 rbes/gm for Mobley customary 3rebs/game and we are right back where we normally are.
12) Skinner is now the main man in the trade -- he always was the one who was the closest thing to what we needed (defender/rebounder/big tough body). Contract is too big, but might be a keeper. Corliss looks to be gone -- way way too much money for a short minute backup with limitations. KT is on the bubble, has talent but just too small and again too much contract for a reserve.
13) Still do not like the trade (although Skinner's somebody who we could obviously have used all year). Have seen nothing to indicate we're more of a threat now than we were, quite the opposite actually. But am ok with that for the moment. Can't go back, and now the question becomes whether Petrie can rescue us from 50windom with some more moves in the offseason, or whether we are stuck at just another playoff team level.

I cant understand why you don't like this trade.. It gives us depth, and toughness. Webber was hogging the ball, and having his stats inflated. Webber was hurting this team with his play. He was a weak defender, a weak offensive threat (because of the amount of shots vs. points) I had a feeling under any other team he would not be a 20-10 guy, and sure enough he is proving me right. He was that type of player on this team because:

1. He took as many shots as points, and since his shots have dropped of course his points will DRASTICALLY drop.

2. He was on a bad rebounding team (us) so although his rebounds are close, they will not be as good as they were here.

Brick, I doubt you will ever like this trade, and I know I will never think that Webber in his current condition could have gotten us past the second round. BUT the rebounding on this team is MUCH better w/o Webber. I cant believe you do not see this! Mo Evans is not the difference. As a team we are rebounding the ball a LOT better. Give Peja a few more games. He has been injured.

 

[Gary]

I have supported the trade since day one because it gave us a bench, and what we were losing in Webber was a guy that held the ball, and was not as good (anymore) as his stats dictated. We were being held back by keeping Webber, and I think this team should revolve around Bibby, Miller, and Peja.

 

[bigbadred00]

Gary-Our total team output has dropped. You say Webber dominated the ball but we still scored 103 or whatever points a game with him. Stop criticizing Webber and the offence because it's stupid as sh!t. Your points when it comes to offence are wrong, absolutely wrong. Our offence is in fact worse but our D is obviously a step up. Will that be true when the starters come back, well will have to see.

I don't understand why you say Webber was hogging the ball, he averaged a bunch of assists and the team was scoring, and scoring very well, we just couldn't stop anything but that's not just a function of Webber it's also a function of everyone else on the court who aren't known to be great defenders. You can argue all day that the trade has improved us, I can't argue with that but stop putting down Webber for Hogging the ball and the offence being crap because it was a great offence we just stopped winning at the end of it.