Purple Reign says "I Changed My Feelings, I Like This Trade"

[Purple Reign]

I am a self confessed Chris Webber fan. When "The Trade" went down two weeks ago, I hated the trade. I felt that my very favorite player not just on the Kings, but one of my all time favorites was being made to be the sacrificial lamb for what was ailing the Kings. I asked "why couldn't they ship out Peja, he is the one that does not want to be here"? I swore that the Kings would regret the day that they traded C-Webb.

Two weeks later, I can honestly say that I was wrong. I am still in a wait and see mode. But I can completely understand why this trade was made and it took the Detroit and Memphis games to really see what was going on. Here are the obvious differences in the Sacramento Kings since Webber is gone:

1. There is an energy in pursuing rebounds. Thomas, Skinner and Williamson clearly make it a point to go after the boards. Plus, Maurice Evans has been hitting the boards better than ever. The Kings are now competeing in the rebounding category.

2. With Skinner in the game, there is a shot-blocking presence around the basket. So when Bibby's man blows right by him, at least there is somebody there to meet the player at the bucket.

3. Transition defense is still somewhat an issue, but at least it is not a Power Forward is not blowing up the court with a guard chasing him.

4. Arco Arena seems to be revitalized for whatever reason. There is a new energy in the building which I hope will bring back the dominating home-court advantage I feel that we had lost over the past two years. I can feel it through the TV screen.

5. The depth off the bench will be huge, when and if everybody comes back.

My concerns:

1. Peja has not found his game yet. Since the trade went down, Peja is shooting 38 percent (23-60), 36 percent from 3 (9-25) and an outstanding 5.3 rebounds per game. THAT IS NOT GOING TO GET IT DONE, SON!!! A lot of ya'll blamed C-Webb for Peja's faults. It is clear to me that Webber was not the issue, and we can not use him as an excuse anymore.

2. The three new guys are somewhat offensively challenged, especailly Skinner. And if you want Skinner to start like I do, he has to in my opinion have a little touch and feel for the ball, which he clearly does not.

3. How is Cutino Mobley going to fit into all of this. Can "the Cat" adjust his game to move this offense the way it should now that Webber is gone.

Other than that I am a converted believer. This trade gives me belief that we can do some damage when the post season arrives. I don't know how far the team will go, but I feel much better than I did on Wednesday, February 23rd, the day I thought that the magic was gone.

I would like to hear from others who felt like me. Who thought that it was bad to trade Chris Webber. What are your thoughts now.

Just interested.

 

[PFFFT!!]

Thats ok Purple. I think everyone on this forum during the first week of the trade were confused and venting. Understandable. Webber was a good guy, I felt that way, and he gave all he could considering his injury to this Kings team. It was tough for Webber fans to grasp. BTW Webber is taking a lot of heat in Philly. I think someday it will dawn on him just how good he got it here. Eventually I think he'll click in Philly, but AI will prevent him from going 100% since AI is pretty much the entire teams ego x 2.

 

[KP]

I agree with you to a certain extent. I also feel like I was wrong about the trade. I def underestimated Skinner and called him and the other guys "scrubs" which was way, way off-base. I still have concerns about our offense.. we've had games of 19,12, and 16 assists(last night) already, and that is not moving the ball well, no matter what anyone says. But our interior defense is much better and our overall athleticism at the 4/5 is better. Now our gaurds have some help if they get beat of the dribble(like almost every guard does every night in the NBA). Pharoah def. deserves an apology from me, and the one thing I will disagree with you about is his scoring. Even though he can't shoot outside as well as Darius, he's already shown he can move without the ball for easy dunks not to mention he's an offensive rebounding machine, which gets him points too. I think he can score enough to take that starting role, but I'd be happy with either one, Darius is strokin it right now too.

 

[Warhawk]

I think the assists will come back up with some practice and playing time. These guys have just been thrown into a new offensive system, where, unlike Philly, they can contribute. The problem is they don't know how to yet within the flow of the offense. That will come with time, and turnovers should come down a little bit. They just need to learn how to play together better. You can see at times they know where the first pass goes, but looking for the second and third gets harder until they're familiar with all the intricacies of this team's offense.

I, for one, was encouraged that even in the losses they had on the road trip the team was competitive (except in Miami). For trading away your "star" player and getting 3 new guys, combined with limited practice for Mobley and all the injuries, I thought they did about as well as could be expected.

 

[Kingsgurl]

I think someday it will dawn on him just how good he got it here.

Oh, unfortunately, he already knew. Others, it may not have dawned on yet. Sacramento is a special place to play

 

[KP]

I think the assists will come back up with some practice and playing time.

I hope so^. We were avg. 25 a game(1st in the league) with that "ballhog who stops our offense" Chris Webber.

 

[bojan_pecanac]

1. Peja has not found his game yet. Since the trade went down, Peja is shooting 38 percent (23-60), 36 percent from 3 (9-25) and an outstanding 5.3 rebounds per game. THAT IS NOT GOING TO GET IT DONE, SON!!! A lot of ya'll blamed C-Webb for Peja's faults. It is clear to me that Webber was not the issue, and we can not use him as an excuse anymore.

The only exuse is that he's been injured before this. He's kinda been in a shooting slump. This isn't a concern to me, the only concern to me is that when Mobley comes back, Mo Evans will start losing minutes and Mobley shoots the ball everytime he touches it. I'm not saying he's selfish but he just loves to shoot. He is not that much better than Mo, maybe just a better passer and outside shooter, I think they should split the minutes between two like this:
32 mpg for Mobley and 16 mpg for Evans, and put Kevin Martin in a little bit and in garbage time.

 

[KP]

The only exuse is that he's been injured before this. He's kinda been in a shooting slump. This isn't a concern to me, the only concern to me is that when Mobley comes back, Mo Evans will start losing minutes and Mobley shoots the ball everytime he touches it. I'm not saying he's selfish but he just loves to shoot. He is not that much better than Mo, maybe just a better passer and outside shooter, I think they should split the minutes between two like this:
32 mpg for Mobley and 16 mpg for Evans, and put Kevin Martin in a little bit and in garbage time.

I just hope I don't start seeing threads blaming Cat if Peja still can't produce, cuz Cats been out and Peja hasn't done much.

 

[bojan_pecanac]

I just hope I don't start seeing threads blaming Cat if Peja still can't produce, cuz Cats been out and Peja hasn't done much.

Cat and Peja are actually effective when they are on the court together. I see them working well, but Mobley doesn't pass a lot inside.

 

[Rowdyone]

As far as having a problem where to play somebody I think we're much better off having that problem than not having enough people with varying talents to matchup with the opposition as before. Now, we can go big or small and compete.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

I, for the record, still don't like the trade. I think and will remain to believe it was a bad move for this year. I still can't help from wondering what might have been or what could have been if the team as it was previously constructed was left intact. I knew that it would one day come to an end, one way or another, I just was not ready for nor did I feel it was time to sever all ties to who the Kings were. I only regret making one comment about the players we received in the trade the night of the trade as I was caught up in the emotion, but other than that, I stand by what I said.

I have no problem eating crow, I just believe that I will not have to.

Note: I've been tempted to post my true feelings of the team, both good and bad, but have thus far hesitated because I would sound just like the people I used to regret reading and I know how much I hated it so I would not want inspire the same disgust that I felt.

 

[uolj]

I didn't like the trade that much when it happened, and I haven't really seen anything to change my opinion.

While what you say is probably true now, I get the feeling that when Miller, Mobley, Stojakovic, and Bibby are all healthy and starting and playing together, the team will lose what it has gained since the trade (and gain what it has lost since the injuries). Miller and Songaila have a lot of the same issues that Webber had, especially in regards to defense and rebounding. I don't expect Skinner to get the same major minutes when Miller is healthy, and if he doesn't, then we really haven't gained anything from the trade in that respect.

So positives #1, 2, and 3 won't be all that important if Skinner isn't getting 30 minutes a game. Point #4 is nice, but my optimistic realism thinks that it will only last as long as the team itself does well, as opposed to the team consistently playing better by feeding off of that energy. Point #5 is probably the biggest benefit, especially since the bench will now have a hustle/energy player at the PF/C spot, but again that doesn't do much to sway me from the negatives of the trade that I discussed here.

So in the end, while I am still open-minded, and I can still see the obvious potential for good things to come out the trade, I haven't changed my feelings.

 

[ghost of H.S.T]

The only exuse is that he's been injured before this. He's kinda been in a shooting slump. This isn't a concern to me, the only concern to me is that when Mobley comes back, Mo Evans will start losing minutes and Mobley shoots the ball everytime he touches it. I'm not saying he's selfish but he just loves to shoot. He is not that much better than Mo, maybe just a better passer and outside shooter, I think they should split the minutes between two like this:
32 mpg for Mobley and 16 mpg for Evans, and put Kevin Martin in a little bit and in garbage time.

I agree, Cat is really in love with his jump shot and can pull up at rather ill-advised moments.

 

[sloter]

Positives: better rebounding, more athletic lineups (we actually have people who can dunk now and we have more fastbreak opportunities), better depth, less mismatch opportunities for other teams.

Negatives: the guys distributing the ball from the post are not nearly as good at that as Webber was, some even have trouble keeping the ball in their hands... Note, this is a BIG negative, because that is how Sacramento runs their offense; my hope is that this will change when Miller returns.

 

[zeke04]

I don't think my feelings have changed. I don't know that we are any better or worse on the court. we are different but I don't know that we are better or worse. I still don't think we are better than the top teams that we need to beat.

I hope when we get healthy and the team gets more adjusted to each other this changes but basketball wise I think we are about the same as we were with Webber.

 

[Purple Reign]

I, for the record, still don't like the trade. I think and will remain to believe it was a bad move for this year. I still can't help from wondering what might have been or what could have been if the team as it was previously constructed was left intact. I knew that it would one day come to an end, one way or another, I just was not ready for nor did I feel it was time to sever all ties to who the Kings were. I only regret making one comment about the players we received in the trade the night of the trade as I was caught up in the emotion, but other than that, I stand by what I said.

I have no problem eating crow, I just believe that I will not have to.

Note: I've been tempted to post my true feelings of the team, both good and bad, but have thus far hesitated because I would sound just like the people I used to regret reading and I know how much I hated it so I would not want inspire the same disgust that I felt.

Interesting. I do not have a problem eating crow either, and yes I am still in a wait and see mode from the Sacramento perspective. I would have loved to have seen what this team would have done with Webb. BUT...and this is a big BUT, this system allows Brian Skinner to be the inside presence that the Kings have not had since...since well probably Brian Grant. Or at least the Chris Webber 0f 1999 and 2000. That is enough to convince me that this team can still compete in the West. And from what I have seen go on in Philadelphia the last two weeks, I believe that right now Sacramento is a mentally healthier team.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

My guess:

This team, if they're playing well, can make the playoffs in the West. If they play their socks off, they can make it to the second round. This can also be a lottery team in the West. A damn fine lottery team, but the possibility of missing the playoffs does exist, a collapse is possible. But these are things you have to deal with when you have change.

I've eventually come to the conclusion that despite the fact that we aren't competing for a championship this year, we have a good chance of having improved the team through this trade. We got younger, we still have 3 very talented starters that could be and have been allstars, and will either be here next year or will definitely be worth a lot on the trade market... and we have quality roleplayers for the next 5 spots on the roster. We lack a superstar. Maybe we'll get one over the summer. Maybe we won't. I don't think we have anybody on our team that's waiting to break out, mostly proven quantities. (I expect more in the line of continual, gradual improvement from Special K.)

On one hand, we're kinda exciting, because the roster has been shaken and may continue to shake in the offseason.

On the other, it's kinda boring to not try to be #1.

 

[skeletor8]

positives:
mobility and energy. Those are two of the things that it is hard to deny that cwebb was missing in his last couple of years. Sad but true. The fastbreak opportunity thing is a mystery to me though...Kings could have run with Webb on the floor...only need three or four guys running out on the break with Webb trailing to hit the pullup...and he is one of the better outlet passers in the league which is key to starting a break. Not sure why they weren't getting up and down for stretches while he was still here but it is good to see the Kings running again.

negatives:
I still see us getting killed on the board for long stretches. The Kings did well in the first half last night, but in the 2nd half when Memphis came back they were killing the Kings on the glass. I really think rebounding has improved marginally at best. If it has improved, it is due as much to Evans getting a lot of playing time as it is to the new guys. Offensive continuity...yes, to be expected to suffer in the short term. But how many entry passes into the high post got dropped/stolen last night? Averaging what, 15-18 assists since the trade. I really don;t know if that number will go up much further. The Kings often just abandon the offense and go one-on-one now...a problem that will probably only get worse when Cat returns. That is part of the reason the Kings shot so poorly in the second half...lots of one-on-one forced shots.

I will admit that Skinner is a bit better than I or really anyone thought he would be. Corliss is what he is (can score against small SF's, will foul out if played mroe than 25 minutes), and KT will make you giddy one night and will be a ghost the next. So I guess you could say my feelings have slightly changed on the trade...it now no longer ranks as the worst trade in the history of the NBA, though I still don't think it was a good decision.

 

[mikebibby1034]

Trade

I LOVE this trade becuase Webber just wanted the ball to much, therefore bibby and peja, who are great shooters, didnt get as many shots as they should have. Plus now with Chris gone, we actually REBOUND the ball on either ends of the court! The trade gets an A+ in my book!

 

[gman23]

I, for the record, still don't like the trade. I think and will remain to believe it was a bad move for this year. I still can't help from wondering what might have been or what could have been if the team as it was previously constructed was left intact. I knew that it would one day come to an end, one way or another, I just was not ready for nor did I feel it was time to sever all ties to who the Kings were. I only regret making one comment about the players we received in the trade the night of the trade as I was caught up in the emotion, but other than that, I stand by what I said.

I have no problem eating crow, I just believe that I will not have to.

Note: I've been tempted to post my true feelings of the team, both good and bad, but have thus far hesitated because I would sound just like the people I used to regret reading and I know how much I hated it so I would not want inspire the same disgust that I felt.

All teams trade players with the exception of a few,, I.E. Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan and Larry Bird.... Webber(ex-king) or any other Kings players do not and will not ever fit into that catagory. This new bunch of players I like because they bring the hustle that was lacking for the past year.

 

[Bricklayer]

Observations:

1) we have gotten worse at the PF spot.
2) Peja has NOT suddnely blossomed without Webb
3) our defensive and rebounding focus the last couple of games has not been about the new guys over Webber, but really about one new guy (Skinner) and one old guy (Evans) over Miller and Mobley
4) our overall performance is no better than it was before
5) the offense (high post in particular) is broken
6) the defensive intensity (Skinner at C in particular) has been excellent the last couple of games
7) people are back to being happy over any win. Nice to see, but a subconscious acknowledgement of something.
8) offense should be ok once everybody is healthy, but is more vulnerable to injury now.
9) when our offensive players come back and take the minutes, where goes the defense?
10) Brian Skinner has never shown the ability to be a 3-4 blk sort of player, or anything remotely close. How long can he keep it up?
11) Mo Evans over Mobley has actually almost singlehandedly been the rebounding difference these last couple of games -- swap out Mo's 11.5 rbes/gm for Mobley customary 3rebs/game and we are right back where we normally are.
12) Skinner is now the main man in the trade -- he always was the one who was the closest thing to what we needed (defender/rebounder/big tough body). Contract is too big, but might be a keeper. Corliss looks to be gone -- way way too much money for a short minute backup with limitations. KT is on the bubble, has talent but just too small and again too much contract for a reserve.
13) Still do not like the trade (although Skinner's somebody who we could obviously have used all year). Have seen nothing to indicate we're more of a threat now than we were, quite the opposite actually. But am ok with that for the moment. Can't go back, and now the question becomes whether Petrie can rescue us from 50windom with some more moves in the offseason, or whether we are stuck at just another playoff team level.

 

[SacTownKid]

I, for the record, still don't like the trade. I think and will remain to believe it was a bad move for this year. I still can't help from wondering what might have been or what could have been if the team as it was previously constructed was left intact. I knew that it would one day come to an end, one way or another, I just was not ready for nor did I feel it was time to sever all ties to who the Kings were. I only regret making one comment about the players we received in the trade the night of the trade as I was caught up in the emotion, but other than that, I stand by what I said.

I have no problem eating crow, I just believe that I will not have to.

Note: I've been tempted to post my true feelings of the team, both good and bad, but have thus far hesitated because I would sound just like the people I used to regret reading and I know how much I hated it so I would not want inspire the same disgust that I felt.

Well if the regular season was any indication. We would have had to shoot 60% every night to have had a chance to win. How many times this season did we shoot well over 50% and still lost because the other team killed us on the boards???

 

[SacTownKid]

My guess:

This team, if they're playing well, can make the playoffs in the West. If they play their socks off, they can make it to the second round. This can also be a lottery team in the West. A damn fine lottery team, but the possibility of missing the playoffs does exist, a collapse is possible. But these are things you have to deal with when you have change.

I've eventually come to the conclusion that despite the fact that we aren't competing for a championship this year, we have a good chance of having improved the team through this trade. We got younger, we still have 3 very talented starters that could be and have been allstars, and will either be here next year or will definitely be worth a lot on the trade market... and we have quality roleplayers for the next 5 spots on the roster. We lack a superstar. Maybe we'll get one over the summer. Maybe we won't. I don't think we have anybody on our team that's waiting to break out, mostly proven quantities. (I expect more in the line of continual, gradual improvement from Special K.)

On one hand, we're kinda exciting, because the roster has been shaken and may continue to shake in the offseason.

On the other, it's kinda boring to not try to be #1.

We don't have a superstar???? You know I have heard a lot about how you don't know what you got until its gone. Well, don't overlook #10 and #16 I don't know what you call a superstar but I would like to give these guys the shot to be that for this team.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well if the regular season was any indication. We would have had to shoot 60% every night to have had a chance to win. How many times this season did we shoot well over 50% and still lost because the other team killed us on the boards???

Were you not watching last postseason?

THAT was the hope. We turn up the defense, we still have the offensive firepower, Webb is desperate to win a title, Peja maybe looking for playoff redemption. And we have tons of experience together. That was our hope this year.

 

[SacTownKid]

Were you not watching last postseason?

THAT was the hope. We turn up the defense, we still have the offensive firepower, Webb is desperate to win a title, Peja maybe looking for playoff redemption. And we have tons of experience together. That was our hope this year.

Well I don't ever remember the Kings getting to the finals last year. Also I don't remember the Kings being this bad concerning rebounding. Those were flaws that were not going to just disappear over night! Sure we may have become better in those areas in the post season, but I think the Maloofs are saying that SECOND ROUND IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH ANYMORE!

 

[Bricklayer]

We don't have a superstar???? You know I have heard a lot about how you don't know what you got until its gone. Well, don't overlook #10 and #16 I don't know what you call a superstar but I would like to give these guys the shot to be that for this team.

superstar: n. unstoppable multitalented HOF caliber player who controls the flow of the game

Mike has shown flashes here and there -- however superstar might be a bit of a loaded term for a guy who has never been an All-Star and still struggles to play both ways.

Peja, well I've talked about what he has to do ad nauseam.

In any case, if Webb's failing was in not being Shaq/Duncan/Garnett, then let's not even talk about the guys who we have remaining.

 

[Double E]

Well I don't ever remember the Kings getting to the finals last year. Also I don't remember the Kings being this bad concerning rebounding. Those were flaws that were not going to just disappear over night! Sure we may have become better in those areas in the post season, but I think the Maloofs are saying that SECOND ROUND IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH ANYMORE!

Well, now they said the first round is good enough. That's too bad, I thought there was a chance this year.

 

[Heuge]

Well I don't ever remember the Kings getting to the finals last year. Also I don't remember the Kings being this bad concerning rebounding. Those were flaws that were not going to just disappear over night! Sure we may have become better in those areas in the post season, but I think the Maloofs are saying that SECOND ROUND IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH ANYMORE!

If they had final's asperations, it would have been nice for them to get finals quality players in return for Webb. (Petrie that is)

 

[PFFFT!!]

Observations:

1) we have gotten worse at the PF spot.
2) Peja has NOT suddnely blossomed without Webb
3) our defensive and rebounding focus the last couple of games has not been about the new guys over Webber, but really about one new guy (Skinner) and one old guy (Evans) over Miller and Mobley
4) our overall performance is no better than it was before
5) the offense (high post in particular) is broken
6) the defensive intensity (Skinner at C in particular) has been excellent the last couple of games
7) people are back to being happy over any win. Nice to see, but a subconscious acknowledgement of something.
8) offense should be ok once everybody is healthy, but is more vulnerable to injury now.
9) when our offensive players come back and take the minutes, where goes the defense?
10) Brian Skinner has never shown the ability to be a 3-4 blk sort of player, or anything remotely close. How long can he keep it up?
11) Mo Evans over Mobley has actually almost singlehandedly been the rebounding difference these last couple of games -- swap out Mo's 11.5 rbes/gm for Mobley customary 3rebs/game and we are right back where we normally are.
12) Skinner is now the main man in the trade -- he always was the one who was the closest thing to what we needed (defender/rebounder/big tough body). Contract is too big, but might be a keeper. Corliss looks to be gone -- way way too much money for a short minute backup with limitations. KT is on the bubble, has talent but just too small and again too much contract for a reserve.
13) Still do not like the trade (although Skinner's somebody who we could obviously have used all year). Have seen nothing to indicate we're more of a threat now than we were, quite the opposite actually. But am ok with that for the moment. Can't go back, and now the question becomes whether Petrie can rescue us from 50windom with some more moves in the offseason, or whether we are stuck at just another playoff team level.

This is from a man expecting nothing short of a championship. Your observations are right on Brick, however, I've given up hope for anything even close to a finals and would probably be happy just to make the playoffs and bow out 1st or 2nd round at the latest. Im not THAT excited about the wins, but to be honest its just better to enjoy the team now and what they have to offer rather than hang up the "fan boots" and call it a season. Im just hoping right now that everyone can be healthy during the stretch, play defense like we never have, and can at least make a game of the remaining games of the season and wait and see what transpires in the summer. I ask no more.

As far as having a superstar on the team, Detroit won last year with really no superstar on their roster. Not necessary, but for that lack, everyone needs to step up defensively and shoot well to make any attempt at winning a championship. We've shown either/or, but almost never both.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well I don't ever remember the Kings getting to the finals last year. Also I don't remember the Kings being this bad concerning rebounding. Those were flaws that were not going to just disappear over night! Sure we may have become better in those areas in the post season, but I think the Maloofs are saying that SECOND ROUND IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH ANYMORE!

Rebounding margin this year:

-2.2

Rebounding margin last year:

-2.7