Problems - and it ain't purty

[Roman]

Kings w/ Brad Miller: 1-7
Kings w/o Brad Miller: 7-2

Kings since Brad Miller's return: 0-5

Why? Is Brad Miller so terrible?

The answer is NO! Brad Miller may not rank among my favorite players in the league, but he isn't the issue. KT may not rank among my favorites either, and he isn't the issue.

The issue is coach Muss and the way this team is run.

With #52 out, we ran a 3 forward front. Reef/KT/Corliss. It wasn't huge (or perfect), but it got the job done. When BM comes back, we run a 4 man forward crew with no one getting any real minutes ... regardless of contribution. Immediately the losses begin.

But, the losses can also be attributed to the steady decline in post plays and production. We've all but abandoned it since BM52 returned (3 total post plays run last night). We've got two stellar post players and we've abandoned the post. We don't just abandon it, we abandon the threat of it. We don't even use it as a decoy. What's this do to the rest of the team? It clogs them up.

What's the biggest issue to this? A lot fewer open looks for Kevin Martin as the defender can get up all in his face without fear of someone jamming it home down low.

Then we give up long rebounds and what do long rebounds turn into? Fast break opportunities. Woohoo! Especially when you have transition defenders like Brad Miller & Mike Bibby ... who are lucky to be on screen when the next shot goes up.

I know I hate Bibby. I know I hate Miller. But, they aren't the true problem with this team (just a byproduct). The coach lets them play shoddy basketball.

So - the issue with this team comes down to the coach. It's not a "the coach isn't out there, os you can't blame him scenario" ... the coach is a real issue right now. There is no offense. There is no accountability. It's a sham.

Right now he's got a near mutiny on his hands as we sink lower and lower. And let's be honest - who is running this ship? The players.

 

[Heuge]

Its really more simple then all that. We have played more bad teams while Miller was out and have played more good teams while he was in.

 

[nbrans]

I gotta say, that Miller W/L record is pretty incredible. I can't explain it except that when you replace Shareef (shooting 47%) with Miller (shooting 30%) it compounds the problems on offense, and from a defense and rebounding perspective, except against teams like San Antonio it's probably a wash between Miller and Shareef.

Miller playing at his best is a better center than Shareef. But right now we're getting 50% Miller and it's not working.

 

[SLAB]

I gotta say, that Miller W/L record is pretty incredible. I can't explain it except that when you replace Shareef (shooting 47%) with Miller (shooting 30%) it compounds the problems on offense, and from a defense and rebounding perspective, except against teams like San Antonio it's probably a wash between Miller and Shareef.

Miller playing at his best is a better center than Shareef. But right now we're getting 50% Miller and it's not working.

So you're saying we have Miller Lite?

...
...
...

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.

 

[nbrans]

Its really more simple then all that. We have played more bad teams while Miller was out and have played more good teams while he was in.

Yeah, this is really true actually.

With Miller:
Minnesota (L)
Chicago (W)
Milwaukee (L)
Dallas (L)
San Antonio (L)
Orlando (L)
Phoenix (L)
Miami (L)

Without Miller:
Minnesota (W)
Detroit (W)
Toronto (W)
Memphis (W)
Golden State (L)
San Antonio (L)
Seattle (W)
Portland (W)
Clippers (W)

 

[Roman]

Its really more simple then all that. We have played more bad teams while Miller was out and have played more good teams while he was in.

Is it that simple? We weren't beating those teams we should beat with Miller either. In fact, we didn't even make a game of it until the end after teams conceeded the win. We were supposed to look "better" with Miller.

Without Miller we lost to Utah and San An. We had Utah in the bag, until we let it go. Have we really looked in control of any of the games since Miller's return? Have we looked good? Have we truly looked "better" than before?

We won those games before with this "pathetic frontline" and Bibby/Artest trying their best to shoot us out of games.

 

[Heuge]

Is it that simple? We weren't beating those teams we should beat with Miller either. In fact, we didn't even make a game of it until the end after teams conceeded the win.

Without Miller we lost to Utah and San An. We had Utah in the bag, until we let it go. Have we really looked in control of any of the games since Miller's return? Have we looked good? Have we truly looked "better" than before?

We won those games before with this "pathetic frontline" and Bibby/Artest trying their best to shoot us out of games.

With the tougher schedule and Artest's injury, I think the win/loss record with Brad in or out is a deceiveing stat. Its hard for me to conclude after watching these games that the reason we are losing is because Brad is playing and others or not. With that said, the money this organization is paying Brad should indicate that he is a difference maker. He is not yet this year.

 

[Roman]

With the tougher schedule and Artest's injury, I think the win/loss record with Brad in or out is a deceiveing stat. Its hard for me to conclude after watching these games that the reason we are losing is because Brad is playing and others or not. With that said, the money this organization is paying Brad should indicate that he is a difference maker. He is not yet this year.

Artest was injured while playing with the other roster, with the added benefit of putting up 16 shots a night at 38%. Not exactly helping out. He was as much cancer as cure on most nights.

Of course, I'm with the Original Poster in that I don't blame Brad Miller. I blame the coach and the style of play. Brad Miller is Brad Miller. He's a good player, although not my style of basketball.

The fact that we avoid the post and play a 4 man rotation is the problem, in my opinion. We don't have the shooters to play our style and Muss is letting anyone under 6'7" do whatever they want out there.

On some nights it'll look nice, on others we're going to look like ... excrement. Without the ability to get easy buckets we're going to sink more than swim.

SAR is not the key, but he's a start. Why is he not getting burn or touches? We complain about him putting it up in bad situations, but forget to look at the other side ... he's a scorer with limited touches. He doesn't know if he's going to play 10 minutes or 40. He doesn't know if he'll get 5 or 15 touches. So, he's forcing. A guy like that should be touching the ball on 30% of our possessions in his comfort zone ... not on the perimeter.

Martin is being used in a manner that's jovial at best. It almost looks like he has been specifically asked to produce over-top of players and that's the antithesis of what he's good at. He's good at taking smart shots. Open looks. Not forcing. He's a Peja or a Reggie Miller. Why ask him to be MJ or Kobe? He's not those guys. But, instead of letting the player's style dictate the offense we run, we're going to make him play a different style and it's not translating. The more he's getting covered ... the less we're doing things to get him better and more open looks. The more he's struggling, the more he's being asked to convert in areas where he isn't comfortable. Get him easy looks early. Get that confidence brewing.

KT is getting benched on nights that he's producing. What message is that? I'm not a KT fan by any stretch ... but he's getting yanked randomly and not reinserted so we can watch Miller plod around and get burned play after play. Where's that place his morale? What's that tell him as a player? Play well ... get benched. Play like crud ... get benched? At least it's consistant with the result being he's benched.

Miller is out there simply to run the inverted offense and only one player is the beneficiary of it and his name is Mike Bibby. What else is he doing? He's certainly not guarding the rim or being a rebounding force. Whoopie. We've got a center that does the thing our PG can't ... and that's pass. Great.

Artest subbing himself in and out whenever he feels fit. Come on? The guy has toned down his terrible shot selection, but he's prone to go coast to coast for an ill-advised shot at any moment. Put him in an offensive set. Get him the look he needs and quit having him try to create on his own.

We don't address the one thing and that's getting easy looks. We don't have Steve Nash out there freeing up men with dribble penetration. We've got guys that are good with back to basket and when they are open.

This all falls on the coach, in my opinion.

 

[Heuge]

For me...its significantly schedule and a little coach. Im thinking the record is an anomaly.

 

[VF21]

Oh look - another point the finger at anyone but SAR thread.

SAR is not the key, but he's a start. Why is he not getting burn or touches? We complain about him putting it up in bad situations, but forget to look at the other side ... he's a scorer with limited touches. He doesn't know if he's going to play 10 minutes or 40. He doesn't know if he'll get 5 or 15 touches. So, he's forcing. A guy like that should be touching the ball on 30% of our possessions in his comfort zone ... not on the perimeter.

This truly boggles the mind.

 

[vladetomiller]

Yeah, this is really true actually.

With Miller:
Minnesota (L)
Chicago (W)
Milwaukee (L)
Dallas (L)
San Antonio (L)
Orlando (L)
Phoenix (L)
Miami (L)

Without Miller:
Minnesota (W)
Detroit (W)
Toronto (W)
Memphis (W)
Golden State (L)
San Antonio (L)
Seattle (W)
Portland (W)
Clippers (W)

Bingo, do you think without Brad you could have changed the fortunes of any of those games. On the other hand I agree that Miller is sucking big time this year but that can be said about anyone on the team. The whole team is playing like they have no clue how to play team basketball and maybe Muss is the one to blame.

Miller and the team record is more of a coincidence than anything else

 

[Roman]

Oh look - another point the finger at anyone but SAR thread.

No. I don't think you can "point the finger" at SAR. He's not even part enough of the pie right now to warrant any part of the disgusting play we've had.

In fact, the other night I would venture to say he looked downright peeved about not getting the ball when he had position. He's looked downright pissed about not being a part of this team.

I don't think he's the answer, but he'll help. You can't run without getting easy baskets. SAR lets you get those easy baskets from inside. He'll get doubles. Open up the outside.

I think we need to go inside. SAR is that best option inside, then Artest. Why can't they get the ball in that spot?

He's accountable for putting up ill-advised shots and forcing it too much. He's accountable for launching 20 footers that leave me with a puzzled look. No doubt. But, I think we can all see why he might do this when we look at it from his perspective (not that it's excusable). He's a scorer and scorers will put up shots eventually inside or outside the context of the offense if they aren't touching the ball.

There is no excuse as to why our only consistant 20PPG guy isn't touching the ball on offense. There is no excuse for having 4 post plays run in a single game. It's ... poor basketball.

But, if you read my post, I did more than mention SAR and what I find disturbing in what he's being asked to do.

 

[VF21]

No. I don't think you can "point the finger" at SAR. He's not even part enough of the pie right now to warrant any part of the disgusting play we've had.

In fact, the other night I would venture to say he looked downright peeved about not getting the ball when he had position. He's looked downright pissed about not being a part of this team.

I don't think he's the answer, but he'll help. You can't run without getting easy baskets. SAR lets you get those easy baskets from inside. He'll get doubles. Open up the outside.

I think we need to go inside. SAR is that best option inside, then Artest. Why can't they get the ball in that spot?

He's accountable for putting up ill-advised shots and forcing it too much. He's accountable for launching 20 footers that leave me with a puzzled look. No doubt. But, I think we can all see why he might do this when we look at it from his perspective (not that it's excusable). He's a scorer and scorers will put up shots eventually inside or outside the context of the offense if they aren't touching the ball.

There is no excuse as to why our only consistant 20PPG guy isn't touching the ball on offense. There is no excuse for having 4 post plays run in a single game. It's ... poor basketball.

But, if you read my post, I did more than mention SAR and what I find disturbing in what he's being asked to do.

I guess we'll simply have to agree that we do not look at or perceive SAR in the same way.

You are apparently basing your comments on your knowledge of him throughout the years. I, on the other hand, am basing my comments on what I've seen since he donned the uniform of the team I love.

I was among the first to give him a lot of credit when he played with a broken jaw. That took major fortitude, IMHO.

But what I'm seeing now isn't impressive in the low post. He holds on to the ball too long and he tries to cut through two or three defenders instead of quickly doing the math and realizing if there are three people around him, someone else on his team is wide open.

SAR isn't a consistent 20ppg guy any more than Webber is 20/10/5 every night.

 

[LPKingsFan]

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607SAC.HTM

The team is +7.2 when Miller is on the court, versus -14.7 with SAR.

SAR's net PER is also +6.2 at PF but -6.2 at Center. http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAC10C.HTM

 

[BawLa]

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607SAC.HTM

The team is +7.2 when Miller is on the court, versus -14.7 with SAR.

SAR's net PER is also +6.2 at PF but -6.2 at Center. http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAC10C.HTM

That about sums it up.

No question that the reason our record is so low with Miller is because of the teams we played and where we were/they were at the time.

 

[BudWright]

Roman - I agree with most of what you say, but Musselman said when he came in that it would take about 50 games to get to know the team (a quote from old timer Daly said 40 games). There are many problems, but as a diehard King's fan, I surely don't "hate" any of them. I admit to being an optimist, but right now I hate Osama Bid Laden--not a King's player.

Annie

 

[DETON8ER]

Yeah Roman i agree with everything u say...because, REEF is my fav player and ive been watching him play for 7 years.
Its just dissapointing to see SAR play 12-18 minutes and gettin only 1-4 touches and only 2-5 rebounds.
Reef is still capable of putting up numbers but with the limited time he's getting it's not going to happen....
He needs to be traded to a team that uses him well in the post and where he plays 28+ min.

 

[Roman]

I guess we'll simply have to agree that we do not look at or perceive SAR in the same way.

That's probably true.

You are apparently basing your comments on your knowledge of him throughout the years. I, on the other hand, am basing my comments on what I've seen since he donned the uniform of the team I love.

Yeah, I've seen him play a lot and basically don't believe he's declined so much in 2 years that he's not capable of scoring 18-20 points every night given the proper number of shots.

But what I'm seeing now isn't impressive in the low post. He holds on to the ball too long and he tries to cut through two or three defenders instead of quickly doing the math and realizing if there are three people around him, someone else on his team is wide open.

But, compare that to last year. He wasn't nearly as "selfish" as he seems this year.

Last year, Adelman gave him the ball more and SAR was passing the ball quite effectively out of the post.

Even this year, in the beginning SAR was passing, albeit he was getting a few TOs from the new travel calls.

You've got to feed players that can score because that's how they contribute. They take shots. If you remove those shots and don't get them involved on offense - you'll get what's happening.

SAR isn't a consistent 20ppg guy any more than Webber is 20/10/5 every night.

That's where I disagree. SAR has not shown that when he gets his touches that he won't score. He showed, even this year, that he can score.

We just aren't giving him touches.

Should he lead the offense in shots? I don't know. I mean, I don't think he necessarily needs to or should. But, he should definitely be getting more than 9-10 shots a game.

 

[Bricklayer]

Good lord, enough with SAR already.

 

[DocHolliday]

Kings w/ Brad Miller: 1-7
Kings w/o Brad Miller: 7-2

Kings since Brad Miller's return: 0-5

Why? Is Brad Miller so terrible?

The answer is NO! Brad Miller may not rank among my favorite players in the league, but he isn't the issue. KT may not rank among my favorites either, and he isn't the issue.

The issue is coach Muss and the way this team is run.

With #52 out, we ran a 3 forward front. Reef/KT/Corliss. It wasn't huge (or perfect), but it got the job done. When BM comes back, we run a 4 man forward crew with no one getting any real minutes ... regardless of contribution. Immediately the losses begin.

But, the losses can also be attributed to the steady decline in post plays and production. We've all but abandoned it since BM52 returned (3 total post plays run last night). We've got two stellar post players and we've abandoned the post. We don't just abandon it, we abandon the threat of it. We don't even use it as a decoy. What's this do to the rest of the team? It clogs them up.

What's the biggest issue to this? A lot fewer open looks for Kevin Martin as the defender can get up all in his face without fear of someone jamming it home down low.

Then we give up long rebounds and what do long rebounds turn into? Fast break opportunities. Woohoo! Especially when you have transition defenders like Brad Miller & Mike Bibby ... who are lucky to be on screen when the next shot goes up.

I know I hate Bibby. I know I hate Miller. But, they aren't the true problem with this team (just a byproduct). The coach lets them play shoddy basketball.

So - the issue with this team comes down to the coach. It's not a "the coach isn't out there, os you can't blame him scenario" ... the coach is a real issue right now. There is no offense. There is no accountability. It's a sham.

Right now he's got a near mutiny on his hands as we sink lower and lower. And let's be honest - who is running this ship? The players.

People said the same thing while Adelman was here. Your feelings towards Musselman are a byproduct of him working with the talent he has, the same as with Adelman. Muss said you won't things start to click until 50 games.

That expectation gets pushed back because of all the injuries early. So, we look to see some bright spots by theend of the season and into next season. Muss didn't say it would happen overnight.

 

[Roman]

People said the same thing while Adelman was here. Your feelings towards Musselman are a byproduct of him working with the talent he has, the same as with Adelman. Muss said you won't things start to click until 50 games.

Problem is - I don't see him working with the "talent he has". I see him depending on players that are the "marquee" instead of getting the most out of what he has.

Bibby is injured. Okay. Why is he bearing our offensive load?
Artest was just straight jacking with no concern for consequences. Why?

Why would a coach with a poor defensive team and a terrible transition team try to RUN and PLAY SMALL with the best small ball team in the NBA?

Why would a coach ask his players what offense to run?

I mean, this goes beyond the win/loss column. I'd have the same gripes if we were winning. I don't like his offensive scheme (assuming he actually has one) and I don't like the product on the floor.

That expectation gets pushed back because of all the injuries early. So, we look to see some bright spots by theend of the season and into next season. Muss didn't say it would happen overnight.

Didn't expect us to be good overnight, but I expected fundamental things to stay intact.

 

[Roman]

Good lord, enough with SAR already.

The post was about the coach. There was a four line snippet about SAR. It's just the point people have focused on.

 

[SacTownKid]

One thing is true. Brad Miller isn't being used anywhere close to his potential yet. At least Muss put the ball back in his hands and is letting him rack up the assists. Now he needs to find a way to get him jumpshots. Brad should be taking 15 shots a game. I don't know if that's possible with Kevin, Ron, Mike, Reef, and Salmons all wanting shots though. Brad may not fit in anymore.

 

[Bricklayer]

One thing is true. Brad Miller isn't being used anywhere close to his potential yet. At least Muss put the ball back in his hands and is letting him rack up the assists. Now he needs to find a way to get him jumpshots. Brad should be taking 15 shots a game. I don't know if that's possible with Kevin, Ron, Mike, Reef, and Salmons all wanting shots though. Brad may not fit in anymore.

Brad's never been anywhere close to a 15 shot a game guy -- that's largely star/20pt scorer territory. He's barely aggressive enough to stay in double figures, let alone up it to 15+ a game. Big key for him helping us is does he have the ball in a position to direct the offense? if he does, he can help. If he does not, there are many many centers out there who play better overall off the ball.

 

[SacTownKid]

Brad's never been anywhere close to a 15 shot a game guy -- that's largely star/20pt scorer territory. He's barely aggressive enough to stay in double figures, let alone up it to 15+ a game. Big key for him helping us is does he have the ball in a position to direct the offense? if he does, he can help. If he does not, there are many many centers out there who play better overall off the ball.

Looking at this roster, Brad is probably the 3rd best jumpshooter on this team. He needs to be taking them. More than the 7 or 8 he's taking now that's for sure.

 

[Roman]

Looking at this roster, Brad is probably the 3rd best jumpshooter on this team. He needs to be taking them. More than the 7 or 8 he's taking now that's for sure.

The problem is that we don't need another player jacking jumpers.

Brad should be taking the jumpers when he's open, but when covered he needs to distribute.

We've got too much player duplication outside, at least in my opinion. I mean:

Bibby - outside
Martin - outside
Miller - outside
Artest - wants to be outside
KT - better shooter than post player
SAR - seems to pick his nose on the perimeter

We need to get players inside and not worry about getting ANOTHER jumpshooter more shots, in my opinion. We've got Martin, Bibby and Artest tossing up enough outside shots. Makes sense though ... they are the PG, SG and SF. The C and PF should be banging inside.