Power Forward - Our Weakest Position

[SacTownGrantFan]

I feel that power forward is clearly our biggest weakness in the roster, and a big reason why the team is not better.

Look at our roster:
C - Elite, Cousins
Power Foward - ?
Small Forward - Rudy Gay (Good player)
Shooting Guard - Ben McLemore (Playing well of late)
Point Guard - Collison (Playing well so far in my opinion)

Our power forwards of course are Carl Landry, Reggie Evans and Jason Thompson. I think it would be tough for anyone to argue that Landry/Thompson is a "good" combo in this league. Far from it.

Take a look at this article for player efficiency ratings:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf

Our highest player, Landry, is at 26th. Not too good. Reggie Evans: 55th. Yikes. And Jason Thompson is at 68. Out of 70!

I'm not sure how useful the player efficiency number is, but I did notice that the consensus good players in this league were nearly all towards the top.

Yes, it is early in the season. But in particular I've felt for a long time that JT is a very mediocre player, plus Landry isn't much better and won't give you 40 min. a night. Reggie Evans is limited and may be a solid backup at best.

For this team to take it to the next level, we need a good power forward.

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

i disagree. we don't really need to be much better at pf. we have rudy gay, cousins, and landry carrying the offensive load there, with reggie and jt bringing the hustle and defense (in theory). we could use some shooting from this front court, sure, and maybe better shot blocking.

but, ben and nik's deficiencies hurt the team a lot more. we need an sg who can dribble to give darren collison a break. right now rudy gay is assuming that role, and we know that's suboptimal because rudy is at his best in the post.

further, ben and nik are non-threats out there. they don't command any respect from the defense (for example, we know if ben or nik get the ball and can't shoot, then generally they aren't going to do poopoo due to lack of skill (ben) or softness (nik).). This results in too many broken plays (stagnant offense) and 4 on 5 basketball.

 

[hrdboild]

It varies game to game. Stauskas has had one good game, Landry has had a few. Thompson was great the first few games and then faded just as Ben started to come around. With Ben and Nik both being 21 years old (Ben is actually younger than Nik), you can see potential for us to improve at that position in the future without acquiring new players. At PF though we have a collection of pretty good players none of which is solid enough to be the starter. Eric Moreland is the only prospect in the group and he's still a complete unknown as an NBA player. Jason Thompson is not holding the team back when he plays up to his potential but his inconsistency is a real problem if we want to take a big step forward. If you're interested, I already started a discussion in the 'Personnel Moves' forum addressing exactly this issue. There's also the ongoing Josh Smith discussion in the same forum.

 

[kingsboi]

this is a pick em type of situation for me...it's both SG and PF but if I had to choose one I'd go with SG, still lots of youth at the SG and inconsistencies.

 

[upinsmoke]

To me is its clearly the 4 with and it starts with JT needing to go. Thanks GP you even added a trade kicker freakin sweet.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I hope we don't look back wish Kings had taken Doug McDermott who went to Chicago picked right after Nik Stauskus. So far in small sampling the 6'8" Bulls SF has shooting stats across the board far better than 6'6" SG Stauskus.

 

[randymoss1881]

I hope we don't look back wish Kings had taken Doug McDermott who went to Chicago picked right after Nik Stauskus. So far in small sampling the 6'8" Bulls SF has shooting stats across the board far better than 6'6" SG Stauskus.

McDermott is playing with 11 season playoff tested vets and has plays ran for him.

 

[hrdboild]

Nik has taken 32 shots so far in his NBA career. Kobe takes more shots than that in one game. Give the kid a chance to play a bit before dismissing him. Also, Ben is currently shooting 42% from three point range this season -- he is a threat when he's out on the floor this year. He's still one of the youngest starters in the league and he's just strung together four solid performances in a row. Going with two 21 year olds and no vets at SG this year is not ideal, especially if we suddenly have playoff aspirations, but take a quick look around the league -- there aren't a lot of quality veteran SGs out there right now.

 

[upinsmoke]

Nik has taken 32 shots so far in his NBA career. Kobe takes more shots than that in one game. Give the kid a chance to play a bit before dismissing him. Also, Ben is currently shooting 42% from three point range this season -- he is a threat when he's out on the floor this year. He's still one of the youngest starters in the league and he's just strung together four solid performances in a row. Going with two 21 year olds and no vets at SG this year is not ideal, especially if we suddenly have playoff aspirations, but take a quick look around the league -- there aren't a lot of quality veteran SGs out there right now.

Its true that's why I feel we have no choice but to improve from within at the 2.

 

[KingMilz]

It's not weak we just need our players to play smarter, this team should have been 6-2/7-1.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Side note: I'd much rather have Moreland active with the team as an option to get spot minutes, instead of Hollins.

There's two ineffective players getting in the way of our young players developing. Sessions in front of RayMac and Hollins in front of Moreland. I get that this season is "about wins", but those two are not helping at all. I want to see Moreland and Ray

 

[IfAt1st]

SG is BY FAR the more important hole this team has. And it's gaping.

The past few games Ben's been OK, but do we really think he's suddenly fixed his problems and now the other teams can't pack the paint, daring us to shoot, and eliminating the advantage DMC gives us?

I would love it if Ben is suddenly better, but I'm not going to take 2 games as evidence that our problem there is fixed. Comparatively, our PF hole is minor.

JT is proving why the Kings should not have given him that long, outsized contract (for his talents).
Most KF's said at the time that it was "a reasonable contract and he was a serviceable big man who could play both positions".

Well, JT's attitude is finally coming home to roost, it seems- he just has proven incapable of getting past the refs and his inability to contribute from the bench, in a smaller role than what he has played historically on the Kings.
In his interviews, it is very confusing what he wants to happen with his career.
He quite clearly is incapable of dominating or even contributing significantly to anything but a garbage team - it's odd that he is NEVER happy with his career and place in the NBA.
I'd conclude he is just a chronic, clinical complainer, who will always sabotage his situation with his inability to be satisfied.

 

[gunks]

So.....

Who do we trade for our magical PF?

Or...

Where for art thou, Moreland? (seriously, wouldnt it be great if the kid figured it out enough to be a rotation player?!)

 

[VF21]

SG is BY FAR the more important hole this team has. And it's gaping.

The past few games Ben's been OK, but do we really think he's suddenly fixed his problems and now the other teams can't pack the paint, daring us to shoot, and eliminating the advantage DMC gives us?

I would love it if Ben is suddenly better, but I'm not going to take 2 games as evidence that our problem there is fixed. Comparatively, our PF hole is minor.

JT is proving why the Kings should not have given him that long, outsized contract (for his talents).
Most KF's said at the time that it was "a reasonable contract and he was a serviceable big man who could play both positions".

Well, JT's attitude is finally coming home to roost, it seems- he just has proven incapable of getting past the refs and his inability to contribute from the bench, in a smaller role than what he has played historically on the Kings.
In his interviews, it is very confusing what he wants to happen with his career.
He quite clearly is incapable of dominating or even contributing significantly to anything but a garbage team - it's odd that he is NEVER happy with his career and place in the NBA.
I'd conclude he is just a chronic, clinical complainer, who will always sabotage his situation with his inability to be satisfied.

So, although you think SG is by far the more important position to work on, you choose to isolate JT at the 4 as being of virtually no use at all. I disagree... Jason's attitude has improved, and while he's not perfect, he is most nights at least somewhat productive on defense. To my knowledge, he has not done any interviews recently. What I think has stood out the most regardless is that he wants to know his role. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Maybe it's just me, but your criticisms of JT almost parody some of those of IT last season...

 

[lawlman91]

Side note: I'd much rather have Moreland active with the team as an option to get spot minutes, instead of Hollins.

There's two ineffective players getting in the way of our young players developing. Sessions in front of RayMac and Hollins in front of Moreland. I get that this season is "about wins", but those two are not helping at all. I want to see Moreland and Ray

Very true. We have enough veterans; now we need rookies to develop for ~4 years, while keeping our veteran core (Cousins, Gay, Collison). So far as I see it, the core veterans are buying into the Kings system and I have good hope that they will resign with the team. Best case scenario: Moreland works hard and contributes to the team as a PF later on, Ray McCallum becomes the 2nd PG in rotation, we keep McLemore and Stauskas, and the veteran core resigns. Keep this team together for 4+ years and we got a solid team to rally behind.

 

[VF21]

Side note: I'd much rather have Moreland active with the team as an option to get spot minutes, instead of Hollins.

There's two ineffective players getting in the way of our young players developing. Sessions in front of RayMac and Hollins in front of Moreland. I get that this season is "about wins", but those two are not helping at all. I want to see Moreland and Ray

Three ineffective players: Derrick Williams in front of anybody.

 

[Kingston Jamaica]

Simply the Kings structure is a bit off balance at the PF position at the moment. Three PF are each making just about the same amount of money and together hold just about 20 mil. When you look at Gay/Casspi combo they make about the same (in a ratio of 20:1) and the output is totally different.

In other words, the Kings should have a 12-14 mil PF as the first option and for example Landry as backup at 6 mil plus a rookie. That would work well. Anyway Williams contract is an expiring one, so there's a 6 mil coming to use.

 

[hrdboild]

I tried hard to believe that Jason Thompson has turned some kind of corner this season. He's got all the physical tools necessary to be a two-way player and at times it can look like the solution to our PF problem is right there under our noses. But in the games we've lost (not counting the GS game because I didn't watch that game) he's not helping the team win. He's just not. He's out there occasionally making a good play and occasionally making a dumb one but as far as 100% buy-in, bodying up his man and playing his role on both ends, it's not happening every game. I've been an apologist for Ben because he's young and he's learning but if Jason doesn't have to wherewithal to realize how badly this team needs him to show up and give max effort every night at this point in his career, I just don't think it's ever going to happen for him. Great guy, hard worker, in tremendous physical shape, all the skills you can ask for from a 7 footer -- but he gets in a game sometimes and he looks lost. Still. If we've been waiting for some kind of switch to go on with him, I just don't believe that switch actually exists anymore.

We're so close to having a playoff team here. DeMarcus and Rudy are ready right now. If Collison can stay on the floor, he's got the mental part of the job down and his level of commitment and effort go a long way toward mitigating whatever physical limitations he might have. Ben's hard work is starting to show as he's limiting his mistakes, shooting with confidence, and playing savvy defense that belies his age and relative experience level. And then there's Jason, who has always shown just enough promise to keep hope alive that he's working toward the role he seems well suited for -- a physical defensive stopper who'll occasionally surprise you with a well-rounded veteran's array of offensive skills. He's the fifth option in the offense. He's going to get chances simply by being in the starting lineup if he just keeps his head on straight and concentrates on locking down his man and owning the glass. I want to believe, but I can't shake the feeling that we're holding out hope for a consistency of play that's never going to be there.

 

[KingMilz]

Simply the Kings structure is a bit off balance at the PF position at the moment. Three PF are each making just about the same amount of money and together hold just about 20 mil. When you look at Gay/Casspi combo they make about the same (in a ratio of 20:1) and the output is totally different.

In other words, the Kings should have a 12-14 mil PF as the first option and for example Landry as backup at 6 mil plus a rookie. That would work well. Anyway Williams contract is an expiring one, so there's a 6 mil coming to use.

Reggie (not counting Williams he's a SF and should not be playing in the first place) makes like 1mil per season, when you consider Kennath Faried by himself is going to make what all three do combined and Jordan Hill is making 10mil I don't think 13mil for those 3 in particular with Landry coming back is that bad.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I tried hard to believe that Jason Thompson has turned some kind of corner this season. He's got all the physical tools necessary to be a two-way player and at times it can look like the solution to our PF problem is right there under our noses. But in the games we've lost (not counting the GS game because I didn't watch that game) he's not helping the team win. He's just not. He's out there occasionally making a good play and occasionally making a dumb one but as far as 100% buy-in, bodying up his man and playing his role on both ends, it's not happening every game. I've been an apologist for Ben because he's young and he's learning but if Jason doesn't have to wherewithal to realize how badly this team needs him to show up and give max effort every night at this point in his career, I just don't think it's ever going to happen for him. Great guy, hard worker, in tremendous physical shape, all the skills you can ask for from a 7 footer -- but he gets in a game sometimes and he looks lost. Still. If we've been waiting for some kind of switch to go on with him, I just don't believe that switch actually exists anymore.

We're so close to having a playoff team here. DeMarcus and Rudy are ready right now. If Collison can stay on the floor, he's got the mental part of the job down and his level of commitment and effort go a long way toward mitigating whatever physical limitations he might have. Ben's hard work is starting to show as he's limiting his mistakes, shooting with confidence, and playing savvy defense that belies his age and relative experience level. And then there's Jason, who has always shown just enough promise to keep hope alive that he's working toward the role he seems well suited for -- a physical defensive stopper who'll occasionally surprise you with a well-rounded veteran's array of offensive skills. He's the fifth option in the offense. He's going to get chances simply by being in the starting lineup if he just keeps his head on straight and concentrates on locking down his man and owning the glass. I want to believe, but I can't shake the feeling that we're holding out hope for a consistency of play that's never going to be there.

I'm starting to wonder if JT's regular negative body language and apparent lack of mental fortitude, is holding the team back in some ways. One of the great things about Reggie Evans, is that he's almost the complete opposite...and with that, DMC has said that he is the veteran that he respects the most. "mentor".

Could starting Reggie be worth it, simply for the positive mental effect that it could have? So even if on "paper" it doesn't seem like Reggie should start over JT, I wonder if it's worth it just for the positive boost that he could bring with our starting unit

 

[Dreadnought]

Jeez, am I the only one who is a huge Reggie Evans fan?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Jeez, am I the only one who is a huge Reggie Evans fan?

Not at all. Reggie gives 100% at all times on the floor and is as mentally and physically tough of a player as you will find. His passion and the way he goes after every rebound is truly inspiring

 

[FaStRmAn]

I have to vote PF. JT has always been a backup type player. He is maybe the worst starting PF in the league. He cant score, his defense is mediocre to poor at times, and he has hands made of brick. He is always good for at least 1 boneheaded/lack of BBIQ plays per quarter. He is not a good passer and he is not good at running the floor or blocking shots.

If the Kings are going to upgrade any position at this point, it has to be power forward. They don't need a scorer at PF but they do need a consistent re-bounder and defender at that position. Someone who can run the floor and get back on defense and maybe block a shot or 2.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I totally agree that PF is their weakest position. JT is not starting material..IMO. Great guy, hard worker, but he drives me absolutely crazy watching him play and has done so for years. I love Evans as a backup big to come in and grab rebounds and do the dirty work and i also really like having Landry as some instant offense off the bench...but none of these guys should be starting PF's on any team... or at least not decent teams. I would love to get another mobile big who is capable of blocking shots/rebounding, with some semblance of an offensive game who cane slide in and out of the 4/5 with Cousins depending on the matchups...Dalembert and Cousins was a match made in heaven...would love to get something like that going again.

 

[pshn80]

IF the PF position is our biggest weakness/need it is in very close competition with SG. In my book JT is the best of the bunch but the coaching staff is understandably enamoured with the rebounding of Evans and the offensive talents of their favorite Landry. I'd like to see JT play major minutes but I don't think it's going to happen.