http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/39214/20060219/nba_to_address_playoff_seed_problem_this_summer/ (have to register to get original link)
Possible playoff seed rule changing?
- Thread starter Kings113
- Start date
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/39214/20060219/nba_to_address_playoff_seed_problem_this_summer/ (have to register to get original link)
LPKingsFan
All-Star
I don't think Stern will support this at all.
Padrino
All-Star
hehe...funny. i was thinking the same thing a coupla days ago. i was looking at the standings, and SA was seeded 4th. i'm thinking ??? kinda sucks for them. let's say dallas is ahead of them by a game in the standings at the end of the season. SA would still be ranked 4th. that's a tough break, especially considering how good they are. looks like pop's got some incentive now to get his players to bring it in the regular season.
I thought they reseeded for the second round when they went to three divisions for this very obvious reason (which is what they have been doing for years since Bettman destroyed the NHL's divisional structure). Would now be the appropriate time to rant that I absolutely hate the three division format? Without reseeding a high 4 seed gets screwed, with reseeding it pretty much kills any Cinderella stories. It also screws over road team fans from an extra chance to see their team if they get placed in separate divisions. And while I'm not really a Blazers fan it really sucks that they're in the totally contrived Northwest division with only one of their traditional rivals.
I guess Steve Kerr wrote about this too:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=sk-notebook021506&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I agree 100% with his suggestion that all teams be seeded strictly on their records with only the guarantee that all division winners make the playoffs for the reasons I already gave above. Of course since that's fair and makes sense the NBA would never go for it.
from VF21: Here's the Steve Kerr article pdxKingsFan was talking about:
Fixing NBA's playoff format
By Steve Kerr, Yahoo! Sports
February 15, 2006
STEVE KERR'S THREE POINTS
1. PLAYER OF THE WEEK
Gilbert Arenas – Washington went 3-0 last week as Arenas rolled up huge numbers: an average of 34.7 points and 7.0 assists per game. The Wizards are beginning to find the groove that made them so tough a year ago, and Arenas is the catalyst. Gilbert also scored on the All-Star front by earning his second berth as the replacement for the injured Jermaine O'Neal.
2. STAT OF THE WEEK
1 to 15 – As a general rule, that kind of assist-to-turnover ratio is not what most coaches are looking for. Heading into Wednesday, New York Knicks center Eddy Curry had only eight assists while committing 117 turnovers. (This is not a misprint). The numbers show just how far Curry has to go before becoming a good player. He's going to get double-teamed on the block, but he must learn how to pass out of the double in order for the Knicks to be effective offensively.
3. GAME OF THE WEEK
Wednesday: Washington Wizards at Dallas Mavericks – The Wizards had won five straight before losing at New Orleans on Monday. They've been getting great contributions not only from Arenas but from new additions Caron Butler and Antonio Daniels. The Mavericks will be a tough test, though. They're in a fierce battle with San Antonio for Southwest Division supremacy and every game will be crucial from here on out for Avery Johnson's squad.
If the Western Conference playoffs began today, one first-round matchup would pit the Dallas Mavericks – who own the third-best record in the NBA – against the Los Angeles Clippers, who own the fifth-best mark in the West. The survivor would then most likely take on the team with the second-best record in the league – the San Antonio Spurs – in the second round.
This obviously makes no sense whatsoever, but the Mavs and Clips would be the victim of the league's one-year-old realignment plan, which awards the playoffs' top three seeds to the three division winners in each conference, regardless of records. As a result, the Denver Nuggets – who lead the Northwest Division despite having the conference's seventh-best mark – would actually be the third seed, with everyone else getting bumped down a spot.
Under the old format, the two division winners were the top seeds, with every other club lining up in order of record after that. Rarely could a team win a seven- or eight-team division without having a top-notch record, so the seeding fell right into place. Now, with just five teams in each division, there's a much greater chance that a mediocre team – like the Nuggets (or the Boston Celtics last season) – can snare the No. 3 seed and throw a wrench in the plans.
In this system, the Mavs, Clips and Spurs will all be furious. Meanwhile, the Phoenix Suns – the current No. 2 seed – would be thrilled. They would avoid either San Antonio or Dallas and face a much weaker opponent in the second round, assuming they got that far. And the fans might get cheated out of seeing the two best teams in the conference slug it out for a trip to the Finals.
My TNT colleague Doug Collins believes that for the playoffs' second round the deck should be reshuffled and the highest-seeded team should play the lowest-seeded team regardless of the bracket. I agree with him, although that still wouldn't take care of the Mavericks-Clippers first-round matchup issue.
I would take things one step farther and simply seed all eight playoff teams by record. The winners of each division would be guaranteed a postseason berth, but nothing more. If the Nuggets had the seventh-best record in the conference, they would make the playoffs and be the seventh seed. That way every team would be rewarded for their performance, and not for competing in a bad division. Conversely, teams like Dallas wouldn't be penalized for being in the same division as San Antonio.
The argument against my idea is that, by seeding according to record, the league would take away the reward for winning a division title. I understand that, but in my estimation, that would be a much smaller injustice than the one that will be committed under the current rules.
The way this season is shaping up, it looks like there will be plenty of controversy come playoff time, and I think that will instigate a change in the rule next season. My guess is that the league would go for Collins' reshuffle in the second round over my plan, but either way, there will be plenty of discussion this summer.
The Chicago Bulls may not be heading back to the playoffs, but there's light at the end of the tunnel for John Paxson and Scott Skiles.
The Bulls are developing a solid young corps of perimeter players, and they have New York's first-round pick this summer as a result of the Eddy Curry trade. Chicago also has the right to swap first-round picks with New York the following season when 7-foot Ohio State-bound phenom Greg Oden is expected to be the first pick in the draft. With the Knicks in disarray, it appears that the Bulls will own a very high lottery pick in June – and maybe two, if they continue to struggle as they have, because they have their own pick as well.
The Curry deal also allowed the Bulls to clear $15 million of salary-cap room for this summer, so they can be major players in the free-agent market. With plenty of young, attractive players like Luol Deng, Darius Songaila, Kirk Hinrich, and Ben Gordon to go along with the future draft picks and financial flexibility, Chicago is well-positioned for the future.
A team whose future may be now is the Clippers, who are challenging Phoenix for the Pacific Division crown. The Clips have had plenty of talent the past few years, but Sam Cassell has pushed the team over the top this season.
His penchant for hitting the big shot has given this Clippers team a different feel. They're cocky now, like they know they're going to win, and Cassell is the reason. Last week, he hit a three-pointer in Toronto to force overtime, then hit two huge threes at Madison Square Garden to take care of the Knicks late.
Cassell laughs his way through games and is clearly unaffected by pressure. In fact, he welcomes it. Adding a weapon like that to the young nucleus he already has, coach Mike Dunleavy has to feel very good about his squad right now.
Speaking of difference-making guards, Chris Paul has been the catalyst for the surprising New Orleans Hornets this season and very narrowly missed out on an All-Star appearance in his rookie season. Paul has the ability to get to any spot on the floor with a unique blend of strength, speed and ball-handling skills. Hinrich described Paul as "slippery strong" after playing against him last week. That's as good a description as any. Nobody can seem to stay in front of the guy.
Steve Kerr is Yahoo! Sports' NBA analyst.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=sk-notebook021506&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I agree 100% with his suggestion that all teams be seeded strictly on their records with only the guarantee that all division winners make the playoffs for the reasons I already gave above. Of course since that's fair and makes sense the NBA would never go for it.
from VF21: Here's the Steve Kerr article pdxKingsFan was talking about:
Fixing NBA's playoff format
By Steve Kerr, Yahoo! Sports
February 15, 2006
STEVE KERR'S THREE POINTS
1. PLAYER OF THE WEEK
Gilbert Arenas – Washington went 3-0 last week as Arenas rolled up huge numbers: an average of 34.7 points and 7.0 assists per game. The Wizards are beginning to find the groove that made them so tough a year ago, and Arenas is the catalyst. Gilbert also scored on the All-Star front by earning his second berth as the replacement for the injured Jermaine O'Neal.
2. STAT OF THE WEEK
1 to 15 – As a general rule, that kind of assist-to-turnover ratio is not what most coaches are looking for. Heading into Wednesday, New York Knicks center Eddy Curry had only eight assists while committing 117 turnovers. (This is not a misprint). The numbers show just how far Curry has to go before becoming a good player. He's going to get double-teamed on the block, but he must learn how to pass out of the double in order for the Knicks to be effective offensively.
3. GAME OF THE WEEK
Wednesday: Washington Wizards at Dallas Mavericks – The Wizards had won five straight before losing at New Orleans on Monday. They've been getting great contributions not only from Arenas but from new additions Caron Butler and Antonio Daniels. The Mavericks will be a tough test, though. They're in a fierce battle with San Antonio for Southwest Division supremacy and every game will be crucial from here on out for Avery Johnson's squad.
If the Western Conference playoffs began today, one first-round matchup would pit the Dallas Mavericks – who own the third-best record in the NBA – against the Los Angeles Clippers, who own the fifth-best mark in the West. The survivor would then most likely take on the team with the second-best record in the league – the San Antonio Spurs – in the second round.
This obviously makes no sense whatsoever, but the Mavs and Clips would be the victim of the league's one-year-old realignment plan, which awards the playoffs' top three seeds to the three division winners in each conference, regardless of records. As a result, the Denver Nuggets – who lead the Northwest Division despite having the conference's seventh-best mark – would actually be the third seed, with everyone else getting bumped down a spot.
Under the old format, the two division winners were the top seeds, with every other club lining up in order of record after that. Rarely could a team win a seven- or eight-team division without having a top-notch record, so the seeding fell right into place. Now, with just five teams in each division, there's a much greater chance that a mediocre team – like the Nuggets (or the Boston Celtics last season) – can snare the No. 3 seed and throw a wrench in the plans.
In this system, the Mavs, Clips and Spurs will all be furious. Meanwhile, the Phoenix Suns – the current No. 2 seed – would be thrilled. They would avoid either San Antonio or Dallas and face a much weaker opponent in the second round, assuming they got that far. And the fans might get cheated out of seeing the two best teams in the conference slug it out for a trip to the Finals.
My TNT colleague Doug Collins believes that for the playoffs' second round the deck should be reshuffled and the highest-seeded team should play the lowest-seeded team regardless of the bracket. I agree with him, although that still wouldn't take care of the Mavericks-Clippers first-round matchup issue.
I would take things one step farther and simply seed all eight playoff teams by record. The winners of each division would be guaranteed a postseason berth, but nothing more. If the Nuggets had the seventh-best record in the conference, they would make the playoffs and be the seventh seed. That way every team would be rewarded for their performance, and not for competing in a bad division. Conversely, teams like Dallas wouldn't be penalized for being in the same division as San Antonio.
The argument against my idea is that, by seeding according to record, the league would take away the reward for winning a division title. I understand that, but in my estimation, that would be a much smaller injustice than the one that will be committed under the current rules.
The way this season is shaping up, it looks like there will be plenty of controversy come playoff time, and I think that will instigate a change in the rule next season. My guess is that the league would go for Collins' reshuffle in the second round over my plan, but either way, there will be plenty of discussion this summer.
The Chicago Bulls may not be heading back to the playoffs, but there's light at the end of the tunnel for John Paxson and Scott Skiles.
The Bulls are developing a solid young corps of perimeter players, and they have New York's first-round pick this summer as a result of the Eddy Curry trade. Chicago also has the right to swap first-round picks with New York the following season when 7-foot Ohio State-bound phenom Greg Oden is expected to be the first pick in the draft. With the Knicks in disarray, it appears that the Bulls will own a very high lottery pick in June – and maybe two, if they continue to struggle as they have, because they have their own pick as well.
The Curry deal also allowed the Bulls to clear $15 million of salary-cap room for this summer, so they can be major players in the free-agent market. With plenty of young, attractive players like Luol Deng, Darius Songaila, Kirk Hinrich, and Ben Gordon to go along with the future draft picks and financial flexibility, Chicago is well-positioned for the future.
A team whose future may be now is the Clippers, who are challenging Phoenix for the Pacific Division crown. The Clips have had plenty of talent the past few years, but Sam Cassell has pushed the team over the top this season.
His penchant for hitting the big shot has given this Clippers team a different feel. They're cocky now, like they know they're going to win, and Cassell is the reason. Last week, he hit a three-pointer in Toronto to force overtime, then hit two huge threes at Madison Square Garden to take care of the Knicks late.
Cassell laughs his way through games and is clearly unaffected by pressure. In fact, he welcomes it. Adding a weapon like that to the young nucleus he already has, coach Mike Dunleavy has to feel very good about his squad right now.
Speaking of difference-making guards, Chris Paul has been the catalyst for the surprising New Orleans Hornets this season and very narrowly missed out on an All-Star appearance in his rookie season. Paul has the ability to get to any spot on the floor with a unique blend of strength, speed and ball-handling skills. Hinrich described Paul as "slippery strong" after playing against him last week. That's as good a description as any. Nobody can seem to stay in front of the guy.
Steve Kerr is Yahoo! Sports' NBA analyst.
Last edited by a moderator:
Padrino
All-Star
i say they move for a modified version of the system in place. the top two seeds in each conference would go to the two teams with the best records in their division. what i mean is, instead of placing all three division leaders at the 1-3 seeds, just take the two with the better records. as of right now, that would mean that dallas and phoenix would get the 1-2 seeds, and denver's seeding would be based solely on their record. in effect, SA would not be the 4th seed, but the third. SA would have received the same seeding in the old system, because they're still in the same division as dallas. it's still not perfect, cuz one division leader gets shafted and enters the playoffs based on record only, but it emulates a system that worked in the past.
The reason that the old system worked well was because if the top 4 seeds won out like they're supposed to and the 3 seed was better than the 2 seed record wise they would retain home court advantage, so there really was no benefit whatsoever between the 2 and 3 seeds. Of course with 3 divisions it really screws everything up because the 6th seed will usually get a more favorable playoff matchup than the 4th and 5th seeds (this happened last year in both conferences).Padrino said:
The thing is that if you get rid of the rule for the automatic 3 seed you may as well get rid of the automatic 2 seed as well because the justification for it no longer makes sense.
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