sidney
Starter
Hawes is the guy that can swing between PF and C. JT is the PF, Thabeet is the C. That's a perfect 3 man rotation with strengths in almost every area needed.
players to stay away from??
- Thread starter ivan_fiba
- Start date
Hawes is the guy that can swing between PF and C. JT is the PF, Thabeet is the C. That's a perfect 3 man rotation with strengths in almost every area needed.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Again, this makes no sense. It is irrelevant whether Thompson plays any center (he can and did this past season BTW) or whwther Thabeet plays any PF (that I do not see). The main swingman is Hawes, who both can and did play a lot of PF last year.
I will lay this out again:
C/PF Hawes 34min (20min C, 14min PF)
PF/C Thompson 34min (34min PF)
C Thabeet 28min (28min C)
There is no magic. It is in fact an entirely standard 3 man rotation. A twin towers roatation. Almost a three towers rotation.
NME
Starter
They don't all three have to be able to play both positions. There are only three possible combinations of the two players, and since two of those are JT + Center, the only question is whether Hawes and Thabeet can play together. And then the only relevant question is whether Hawes can play some PF, which I submit he can.
And actually JT can play some center, but it's unnecessary in these combinations.
SacKings7
Starter
Irrelevant. They weren't taken in the same draft. Even if they were, it's still kind of irrelevant
Section 101
All-Star
I did not start this statistical nonsense attack, and I NEVER claimed that it guaranteed success. But let me hammer away at the statistical nonsense some more while I am at it. And lest I allow that to be twisted anymore by anyone, this is in RESPONSE to the spurious claims that somehow Thabeet's numbers were inferior to what they should have been, NOT an argument that said numbers guarantee success, but shooting down an argument that somehow his numbers can be used against him. So here we go, I already did the legendary defensive centers, so let's do the 7'3"+ monsters:
7'3" Thabeet
10.9rebs 4.2blk
7'4" Ralph Sampson (one fothe great college prospects of all time BTW)
11.7rebs 3.1blk
7'4" Rik Smits (very different sort of player of course)
8.7rebs 3.9blk
7'4" Mark Eaton (pinned to the UCLA benche)
2.0reb 0.5blk
7'6" Shawn Bradley (missed last tow years to go play Mormon)
7.5rebs 5.2blk
7'3" Big Z -- DNP college
7'5" Yao Ming -- DNP college
Hey, about the various defensive roleplayers starting for playoff teams around the league (the ones who actually went to college):
Brendan Haywood
7.3reb 3.6blk
Erick Dampier
9.3reb 3.1blk
Samuel Dalembert
5.7reb 2.1blk
Greg Ostertag (hey why not)
7.5reb 2.9blk
And hey, why not a couple more defensive superstuds?
Tim Duncan
14.7reb 3.3blk
Marcus Camby
8.2reb 3.9blk
Now let's kindly get back to the "core strength" and "no jumper" complaints rather than wasting time on completely spurious statistical arguments. Thabeet's college stats are gold -- right in the mix with all the defensive/rebounding centers we have seen in the league over the years. And he's improved every year.
Patrick O'Bryant 8.3 reb 2.8 blk
Sheldon Williams 10.7 reb 3.8 blk
Ike Diagu 9.8reb 2.3 blk
Rafael Araujo 10.1 reb .8blk
Anthony Bonner 13.5reb (led ncaa)
Oh here's a great comparisons
Jerome James 10.4 reb 4.63blk
Adonal Foyle 13.1reb 6.4 blk
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
In a dream world Hawes plays 20 min C, 14 min PF. What do you think he is - a swing man? Is he our Cisco in the frontcourt?
sidney
Starter
lot of undersized (for a center) and/or overweight guys there...
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Thank you.
sidney
Starter
Don't understand....are you saying he can't do that? He started 13 games at PF for us last year and more at the C position. He can play both
The point that Brick was making earlier was that, when people complained about Thabeet's rebounding stats, they were apparently forgetting that his stats were about as good as any HOF center's. He was not arguing that everybody with good college stats will have great NBA careers. You're rebutting an argument that nobody has made, or would make.
Uh, yes. Not hard to see at all.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Many more time than not, he can't play both. He can't match up against quick power forwards in this league on the defensive end. And then, what's he going to do when he is faced with a quick power forward on the offensive end - post up? No, he can't post up because he's got big Thabeet in the post, making it a very crowded lane. So then he is faced with getting his offense from the outside. But wait..he's got a smaller quicker player that can defend him from the outside. That's not the optimum situation for Hawes or for the team. Thabeet could end up to be much more a problem than a solution in that situation.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
Great. When the Kings inform Hawes that his minutes at center are going to be taken by Thabeet - a minimum 5 year project - they should have you there to explain it all to him.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
Great. When the Kings inform Hawes that his minutes at center are going to be taken by Thabeet - a minimum 5 year project - they should have you there to explain it all to him.
I think Hawes just wants to win and to get the minutes he thinks he deserves. I don't think he would care if they were at PF or C. If he agreed that Thabeet could make the Kings a better team, I just don't see him caring about which position his minutes were allocated to.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I think Hawes more than anything wants to succeed. And putting him at pf doesn't do that. Just like putting Thompson at the three doesn't enable him to succeed.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
I guess it depends on your definition of succeeding. Hawes could still put up great offensive numbers at PF, it's defense that would be harder. However, in theory he would have a 7'3'' shot blocker behind him. With that said, I would bet that Hawes definition of success if playing a meaningful role for a winning team and not just maximizing his stats on a losing team. Hawes is hypercompetitive.
sidney
Starter
Simple - Thabeet clears out to the other side of the paint and Hawes posts up the shrimpy opposing power forward. I really don't know why that is a problem. Bynum doesn't prevent Gasol from posting up when Pau is at PF.
It should be noted that the 2009 NBA champions have a huge front line and no small ball tricks were able to throw them off. Having 3 guys 6'11"-7'4" is a good thing, not a liability.
Especially when all 3 are pretty mobile, as these three are.
Really, some of you are just being silly. Spencer averaged 29.3 minutes per game last year at both PF and C. JT averaged 28.1, often limited because of foul trouble. So we increase both of their minutes by about 5 per game (assuming they stay out of foul trouble) and still get Thabeet to play at least 15 a game, where is the compaint????
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Matching up on the defensive end is what it's all about...and his numbers at PF wouldn't be as good as at center.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Given that his time at PF would primarily be against backup PFs, as he develops he could be a devastating force out there. More so precisely because Thabeet does not demand the ball and plays more of a Chandler game -- you leave me I'm going inside for an alley oop. Otherwise he stays out of the way and Spencer gets to dominate the inside work for us while he is out there.
The Admiral and Duncan would like to have a talk with you about the impossibility of twin towers playing together and oh, winning a couple of titles while they are at it. So would Bynum and Pau for that matter.
CaminoChaos
Bench
I did not start this statistical nonsense attack, and I NEVER claimed that it guaranteed success. But let me hammer away at the statistical nonsense some more while I am at it. And lest I allow that to be twisted anymore by anyone, this is in RESPONSE to the spurious claims that somehow Thabeet's numbers were inferior to what they should have been, NOT an argument that said numbers guarantee success, but shooting down an argument that somehow his numbers can be used against him. So here we go, I already did the legendary defensive centers, so let's do the 7'3"+ monsters:
7'3" Thabeet
10.9rebs 4.2blk
7'4" Ralph Sampson (one fothe great college prospects of all time BTW)
11.7rebs 3.1blk
7'4" Rik Smits (very different sort of player of course)
8.7rebs 3.9blk
7'4" Mark Eaton (pinned to the UCLA benche)
2.0reb 0.5blk
7'6" Shawn Bradley (missed last tow years to go play Mormon)
7.5rebs 5.2blk
7'3" Big Z -- DNP college
7'5" Yao Ming -- DNP college
Hey, about the various defensive roleplayers starting for playoff teams around the league (the ones who actually went to college):
Brendan Haywood
7.3reb 3.6blk
Erick Dampier
9.3reb 3.1blk
Samuel Dalembert
5.7reb 2.1blk
Greg Ostertag (hey why not
7.5reb 2.9blk
And hey, why not a couple more defensive superstuds?
Tim Duncan
14.7reb 3.3blk
Marcus Camby
8.2reb 3.9blk
Now let's kindly get back to the "core strength" and "no jumper" complaints rather than wasting time on completely spurious statistical arguments. Thabeet's college stats are gold -- right in the mix with all the defensive/rebounding centers we have seen in the league over the years. And he's improved every year.
One thing I notice about this list (and it is a good one, good job Brick) only 1 or 2 of those guys has a ring.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
One thing I notice about this list (and it is a good one, good job Brick) only 1 or 2 of those guys has a ring.
Yes, those were mostly accounted for on my first list.
