[PHX/SAS] -- series discussion (merged)

[Nazman]

I ratehr doubt Steve has that sort of extra gear over what he's already providing. In particualr wiht the extra attention he'll get tonight.

Ironically I actually think the game, and series, might depend on what sort of game Tim Duncan brings. There is absolutely no reason on Earth for him not to completely dominate this one, and nobody to get him into foul trouble either. If he brings his A game, he should completely dominate inside and the Suns could be in all sorts of trouble. If however he pulls one of his disappearing/choking acts, which he is more than capable of, I think the passion in that arena could inspire Nash's running mates to play far above their heads.

Another thing to watch for will be how the refs call it. Tight I would imagine. Should favor the Suns...except that Kurt Thomas absolutely cannot get into foul trouble and has always been very very foul prone.

Gotta hand it to ya. That's some good analysis. Difficult to trump. My dream goes on. May the poets be out in abundance and the hands of fate all reach deep into the psyche of the Phoenix Suns organization and may the Nefarious Steve Nash lead the way...

 

[quick dog]

The series will end precisely the way Greg Popovich had hoped. Without Amare and Boris, the Suns will certainly lose. San Antonio will play their normal controlled game. The referees will preclude any super-emotional game-play, thus giving Phoenix no chance whatsoever.

The Popovich plan was apparently to have some of his players commit a series of cheap-shot fouls, give up a bench player for a few games if necessary, on the chance that a conspicuously emotional starting player on the other team will take the bait. Bingo, two Phoenix starters get suspended for what amounts to silly technical fouls, and the Spurs get a fourth title on the cheap.

Again, nothing happens to Bruce Bowen.

 

[mdme]

could you imagine if steve nash retaliated against horry? then the suns would have been without nash, amare, and diaw!

Gotta hand it to pop and the spurs....

 

[Nazman]

Fifty and fifteen? Nash is going to do something that's never been done before against the best defense in the playoffs? With his number-one scoring option out of the game? I highly doubt it.

Slim
It's all i have left. The season is a wash for me once the Sun sets. I have no love for the Jazz for the Spurs or anyone playing back east. I know it's a different story for you. That's fine. But, still i hope against all odds for justice. Just once can there be a little justice. (cause how don't you rush onto the court after halfass Horry drops the little guy against the scoring table. It's was just pure bs, what Horry did and what the Spurs do to keep their edge). And if there was some real justice, tonight, in particular, who would provide that blow. Steve Nash. He's capable. Against all odds...

 

[Gargamel]

Gotta hand it to pop and the spurs....

^ Quotes like this remind me of how far we've come since the 80s. Nearly anyone who discusses McHale clotheslining Rambis in the 84 Finals portrays it as a move that stopped the Celtics from being annihilated by fast breaks. They eventually won the series. Bird made "we played like sissies" and "women" comments before the clothesline. It's viewed as a test of toughness that the Lakers lost.

In 85, the Lakers came back and started scrapping w/ Boston and everyone associated w/ the Celtics was whining up a storm. Lakers won.

In 88, Laimbeer took Bird down w/ a chokehold and as Laimbeer was peeled off, Rodman came in and shoved Bird while Mahorn and others were pushing and shoving. Bird then got the ball and threw it at Laimbeer's head. Detroit ended up beating them that year.

In 89/90, Detroit mugged Jordan and Pippen. Pippen couldn't handle it (mentally fragile).

In 92, the Knicks tried the Pistons tactics against the Bulls and managed to stretch it to 7 games.

In 94, Mason could've ended Horry's career by undercutting him in midair.

Now Horry gives Nash a hipcheck and half of the observers are up in arms about SA trying to win a series by dirty tricks. We've come a long way baby.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Marv Albert: "D'Antoni says that we could see a lot of Pat Burke here tonight."

Mr. Slim: "Pat Burke's going out there to get somebody."

 

[Bricklayer]

Well so far so sad for the Duncan choke.

 

[Bricklayer]

Chokity chokity choke. And no Horry to bail them out either.

Does this mean that we can officially rule Duncan out of the HOF until/unless they allow the far superior Kurt Thomas in too?

 

[Superman]

One thing is for certain: the refs have decided not to buy into the Steve Nash flop tonight.

Another thing: Shawn Marion must have visited a special geyser or something before this one. He's BALLIN'!

 

[Bricklayer]

Ooh, Charles Barkley wiht the actual good point about the embarrassment factor possibly blunting the Spurs intensity/focus.

 

[Bricklayer]

Uh oh....

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Not to quote myself, but aww hell, why not

On the plus side for the Suns, with Horry gone, the Spurs now sum to a negative clutch factor. As long as the Suns can keep it close, the Spurs oughta choke it away.

 

[atxrocker]

intense game

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Great game, Spurs came back, but Suns ran outta gas. I eat my clutchiness comment

 

[Bricklayer]

Manu completely bailed them out.

 

[Oskor]

Hard fought game by the short-handed Suns. Here's to a game 7!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Here's to the Spurs ending the series in 6!

 

[stoyak]

Here's to the Spurs ending the series in 6!

Here's to Spurs ending the series in 6, then winning WCF, and then Horry trying to body check Billups or Bowen kicking Rasheed Wallace in the groin area against Pistons. I would really love to see what would happen next.
Short of that, if Spurs win this series -- the most likely outcome now -- we are doomed to boresketball for the rest of the playoffs. I don't know how anyone can be enthusiastic about it.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Nah, I can't go there with you... I mean, if Utah beat the Spurs, that would suit me just fine.

Unfortunately, like I've been saying for a couple of weeks, I think that the only team that could've beaten the Spurs laid down for the Warriors in the first round.

 

[stoyak]

Nah, I can't go there with you... I mean, if Utah beat the Spurs, that would suit me just fine.

Unfortunately, like I've been saying for a couple of weeks, I think that the only team that could've beaten the Spurs laid down for the Warriors in the first round.

I think I remember now You wanted Mavs to beat GW, then go on to beat the Spurs, so that the Mavs could be beaten by Pistons and Webber would get the ring! But now that the Mavs are gone, do you root for the spurs because in your opinion Detroit is more likely to beat the Spurs than the Suns?
I mean, if the ultimate goal is for webber to win the ring, then we all should root for utah -- they are the weakest link in the west among the three remaining teams.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

No, I'm rooting for the Spurs because **** the Suns... I don't particuarly want the Spurs to win, but I do particularly want the Suns to lose.

 

[Jerryaki]

No, I'm rooting for the Spurs because **** the Suns... I don't particuarly want the Spurs to win, but I do particularly want the Suns to lose.

a kings-specific reason, or something else?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Why would you think that the Kings would have anything to do with it? Is it inconceivable to you that I might just not like the Suns?

 

[Gargamel]

a kings-specific reason, or something else?

Dan Tony is grating as hell. That could be on his short list.

 

[Jerryaki]

Why would you think that the Kings would have anything to do with it? Is it inconceivable to you that I might just not like the Suns?

we are on a kings fans forum, so it's not like it's coming out of nowhere. and it's not inconceivable, which is why i ask. it was just a question, to which it would've been completely fine to remark "i simply don't like the suns."

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Yeah, but what kind of history is there between the Kings and the Suns which would lead you to ask the question? Am I overlooking something?

 

[Jerryaki]

oic. i've seen kings fans around here not liking them because of their ascension to the top of the pacific division, so i was wondering if it was that or something else entirely.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't think in those terms; I don't consider other Pacific division teams to be "rivals," except for the gd lakers.

 

[mcsluggo]

I don't think the rule is stupid in theory, and if there weren't idiots running the NBA then it wouldn't be a problem. Brawls are bad, I agree with you there, and you need to have a consistent rule. Don't step off the bench.

But the rule becomes idiotic when it's interpreted horribly and inconsistently, as it was in this series. What annoys me is that the people who agree with the NBA keep saying that it's a hard and fast rule. No, it's not. If it were hard and fast Duncan and Bowen would have been suspended. The Kings players who went into the tunnel would have been suspended during the Christie/Fox fight. Exceptions have been made in the past, and the rule is completely open for interpretation -- AS IT SHOULD BE. There should be room to say, "Hey, you know, extraordinary circumstances, we'll let this one slide." Just like the "elbow to the head = automatic one game suspension" was relaxed for Baron Davis when he cheap-shotted Fisher. But for some reason now we're getting all letter-of-the-law on Phoenix?

The rule isn't stupid. The interpretation on the other hand, is stupid and inconsistent. The NBA should have said, "Hey, they weren't escalating the fight, they just took a few steps, we're going to let that slide." The next time someone steps off the bench and escalates a fight, suspend the heck out of them. How is that inconsistent?

Every suspension the NBA makes is a judgement call and open to interpretation -- they just happen to make ridiculously stupid judgement calls. This event has horribly damaged the NBA, and sooner or later they're going to have to figure out how to convince people it's all not pro wrestling. And the way to do that isn't by choosing to adhere to the letter of the rules, it's by using common sense and fairness.

Amen Brotha

 

[mcsluggo]

I don't know, but I don't think that's a good line of demarcation. It doesn't take a full-blown "fight" for someone to get hurt as a result of players leaving the bench. In fact, the point is to keep players from escalating the situation into a fight where punches are thrown, etc. The League is saying that if you stay on the bench during an altercation, we have a better chance of keeping it from becoming a fight.

ergo the Duncan situation?

In the SAME FRIKIN GAME?



You could argue the points for Amare/Diaw to be suspended...
you could argue the points for Duncan not to be suspended...
but to agrgue them both SIMULTANEUSLY in the SAME game, is hogwash. You simply cannot split hairs so fine when the end result is to REWARD THE TEAM THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE for the mess. Period. the league could've chosen to recognize that Amare/Diaw didn't do anything to actually excalate the situation (unlikely) OR chosen to recognize that Duncan did MORE to escalate THAT situation (but still very little to escalate) (more likely). But to drop the cards where they did was just plain bullskit.