bigbadred00
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Bricklayer said:If more coaches had Michael Jordan and Shaq IN THEIR PRIMES -- quit being stubborn, that's not even arguable -- you're damn right more coaches would win titles. Not all of them. But the good ones would. You swap teams for MJ and Drexler in that '92 series between Portland and Chicago, and Adelman wins the title, PJ goes home emptyhanded. You swap Shaq and Webber in the 2002 WCF, then Adelman wins the series, PJ goes home emptyhanded (heck Adelman wins if even have a healthy team).
ONE MORE TIME: look at the names of the players who have led their teams to multiple titles -- MJ, Magic/Kareem, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan/Admiral, Shaq/Kobe etc. etc.. Just look at them. Absorb that list for a moment. The greatest players in NBA history. If you have them on your team, IN THEIR PRIMES, and you are a good coach, your chances are excellent. And if you are their coach when they are in their primes and you win with them (as you SHOULD), you don't get fired. You get to repeat. Pile up championships. Get impressionable youth to worship you without considering the context of your titles.
Phil's never won a title he shouldn't have. He's had the best players, he's had them in their prime, he should win the title. And EVERY SINGLE YEAR when he HASN'T had the best players, or they have been too young, too old, too injured, Phil has lost just like any other coach.
So obviously from your POV coaching in the NBA means little to nothing. No coach really exemplifies his or her self. I find that rather absurd. Brick please name me 1 coach who HAS won a title he shouldn't have. Then you can open your argument back up. Atleast for the years I've been alive I can't think of one.
So in 1993-1994 without MJ when he took Scotty to game 7 against the eventual Eastern Conference finals opponent isn't an impressive feat. Honestly who was on that team, Brick. The greatest collection of talent known to man not really. It was scotty and company and they still won 55 games without MJ. Why is that year not an impressive feat considering the loss of the best player on the team. Honestly does a lineup consisting of Scotty Pippen, Grant, Armstrong, Kukoc and whoever played center really give you a sense of "scariness." Yet you view Riley's Winning with Mashburn, Mourning and Hardaway a much more amazing accomplishment yet both teams never won titles. My question to you is why did Riley lose so many times in the playoffs in comparison to Jackson when he had arguably a more talented team as a whole yet Riley's the better coach in your eyes.
Honestly I still think your rationale is flawed, Phil definitely was helped, I never said he wasn't by the great players he had, but alot of coaches have had great players, maybe not to MJ's stature but have accomplished considerably less.
Basically all I've summed up from you Brick is your belief that NBA coaches success is entirely linked with the talent of the players on the team. If coach A and Coach B are relatively the same skilled, coach A and coach B will have similar records and similar success if they coach the same team. Cause obviously coaching philosophhy and strategy have nothing to do with winning titles. Who else ran the triangle and ran it as well as Phil. Please name names. I guess then anyone with Tex Winter could have won the title.
Honestly as I've said before, examples in the NBA are tough but I know examples in other sports like the back of my hand. The one I can think of that won in his first year is Larry Brown who replace Rick Carlisle who is also a great coach. Larry won it in his first year at Detriot with basically the same cast of characters minus Sheed. Larry got the job done, Rick hasn't yet, does that make Larry significantly better at what he did in Detroit? Maybe, now for some reason after years without titles he finally has his, is he that much better of a coach now than let's say 5 years ago? Not really. What he always a good, maybe great coach probally, but unlike Rick, he got the job done and now he's great while Rick is just good. With your logic, Rick would have won the title with the same roster as Larry. Is that really true? I doubt it.
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