Paperwork sent for Patterson / Smith Trade

[Real_fan]

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_4162791

The Nuggets are close to finalizing a trade that would send swingman Ruben Patterson to the Milwaukee Bucks in exchange for forward Joe Smith, NBA sources confirmed today.
The Smith-Patterson deal is likely to be finalized no later than Friday. The arrival of Smith means the Nuggets probably will not go after Dallas free-agent forward Keith Van Horn because they fill the same role. Smith will make $6.8 million next season in the final year of his contract while Patterson will make the same in his final season.
Smith averaged 8.8 points and 5.2 rebounds while shooting 47.5 percent from the field in 44 games for Milwaukee last season. The 6-foot-10, 225 11-year veteran was the top pick in the NBA draft by the Golden State Warriors in 1995. Smith has averaged 8.6 points and 5.2 rebounds over his career, including a career-high 18.7 points with Golden State during the 1996-97 season. He also has also played for Philadelphia, Minnesota and Detroit. Patterson's Nuggets career lasted only 26 regular-season games and five playoff games. The 6-foot-5, 224-pound forward was
acquired from Portland in a four-team trade on Feb. 23. Patterson started 20 regular-season games for Denver, averaging 13.2 points, 3.5 rebounds, 2.6 assists and 1.31 steals. The eight-year NBA veteran is close with Nuggets and former Cincinnati teammate Kenyon Martin and had some words with coach George Karl during the playoffs regarding Martin's suspension for conduct detrimental to the team.
The teams turned in the trade to the NBA office Thursday afternoon and are awaiting league approval, which is expected to come no later than Friday.

 

[Real_fan]

This could mean one of two things

1. Bonzi's agent isn't on crack and it just took something like this to transpire to actually get us a big from Denver.

2. We could just say screw Bonzi and go after Van Horn!

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I'm not sure if the signing of Smith actually makes up for the Nugs' loss of Francisco Elson. Like Nene, Smith seems to be frequently injured, so maybe they simply want big-man insurance.

 

[Kings113]

Jamal Sampson is Elson's replacement. Long, tall, athletic big who can block shots and rebound. Just doesn't have Elson's jumpshot. Joe Smith can rebound and hit the jumper, but I'm not sure he's the hustler or defender Elson is.

Why would we go after KVH? There's no room for him (Artest/Salmons/Garcia/Martin/Douby), and I really doubt we could get him for the LLE. We should and I'd think would spend that on a big man.

 

[Real_fan]

Van Horn would be a S&T with Dallas...

My point is Denver has these BIGS:
Camby
K. Martin
Najera
Sampson
Joe Smith
Nene

----------------------------------------------------
On the Bubble:

R. Evans

 

[Kings113]

Still, we don't have the room for KVH unless we moved Garcia for a big man. KVH for Bonzi would be an absolute steal for Dallas. I don't think a deal like that goes down, and Bonzi is only going to be dealt for a big man (main piece), a TE, a pick, or a combination of those.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

What's Joe Smith done to deserve this?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If they were bringing Smith in for anything involving a S&T for Bonzi I'd probably support it. I'd even take Smith just for another expiring contract to ship off at the deadline for a real player.

But no way do I want Van Horn here. Or Bonzi in Dallas.

 

[Sac.Kings]

^ agreed. Van Horn is unnecessary. Bonzi in Dallas would make them the clear favorites for the title.

 

[Ryle]

This trade shaves 1 million Dollars off Denvers' salaries for this coming year so they can now sign Bonzi to that whopping 1 year 3 million $$ deal and still be under the luxury tax.

 

[Kings113]

Patterson is Patterson, that can't really be overlooked. But, he's a good defensive player, gives the Bucks a post-option, and overall a spark wing-player off the bench. Hopefully for the Bucks sake, the problems Patterson had were because of Portland and the situation there, and Patterson stays cool and not get into any problems. Who knows though.

I would of liked to see David Noel get the hustling, team-player swingman role off the bench though. Now he'll be a third wing-player.

I like this trade for the Nuggs in a way, Joe Smith is a good, reliable shooter and not a bad rebounder. Solid insurance big as well, and get rid of a potential problem in Patterson. Now the Nuggs need to go get 1 or 2 legit perimeter shooters.

Problem for the Nuggs is they lose their best wing defender, in what was already an overall average perimeter defense group. Now you're relying on not much for perimeter defense but a rookie in Diawara and Andre Miller. I hope Diawara turns out to be something though, I like what I've learned about him. Carmelo and JR Smith can be better than average defenders, both have the tools. Just not there yet..

 

[Kings113]

Bucks:

Mo Williams/Charlie Bell/Steve Blake
Redd/Patterson/Bell
Patterson-Simmons/Patterson-Simmons/Noel/Illyasova
Villanueva/Skinner
Bogut/Gadzuric/Ha

Nuggs:

Andre Miller/Boykins
JR Smith/Free-agent or Hodge
Carmelo/Kleiza/Diawara/Hodge/Najera
Nene/Martin/Smith/Najera/Kleiza
Camby/Sampson/Nene

Interesting front-court situation for the Nuggs.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Jamal Sampson is Elson's replacement. Long, tall, athletic big who can block shots and rebound. Just doesn't have Elson's jumpshot. Joe Smith can rebound and hit the jumper, but I'm not sure he's the hustler or defender Elson is.

Actually Joe Smith is one of the best hustling big men there is. Even with his slinky 225 lb. frame, he puts his body on the line. Draws a lot of charges. Fights for loose balls. Has the length and athleticism to garner steals and blocks when need be. Plays with a sort of heart rarely seen in a #1 draft pick. And that combined with his latent offensive talent (he just plays suppressed--) makes him a good role player. May also explain all those injuries as well.

As for Elson, he's your consummate big man. Muscular, fairly strong, good post defender. He probably does hustle, but not to the extent Joe Smith does--he already has the strength to play adequate defense and the athleticism/length to go along with it. He's got some offensive talent, but he's relatively unproven (although a possible sleeper given playing time) and as of now I trust Smith with offense (he averaged 18.7 points in his 2nd year--his offensive ability is there).

 

[Kings113]

Ah, I haven't seen that much of Smith. Just some here and there.

I know he's a pretty good rebounder, still has some athleticism and is long. Is a reliable offensive option. Didn't know about the rest though. He's also older and possibly injury-prone now though, more suited to a back-up, spot-starter role.

 

[NugzFan]

What's Joe Smith done to deserve this?

deserve what?

 

[NugzFan]

Patterson is Patterson, that can't really be overlooked. But, he's a good defensive player, gives the Bucks a post-option, and overall a spark wing-player off the bench. Hopefully for the Bucks sake, the problems Patterson had were because of Portland and the situation there, and Patterson stays cool and not get into any problems. Who knows though.

I would of liked to see David Noel get the hustling, team-player swingman role off the bench though. Now he'll be a third wing-player.

I like this trade for the Nuggs in a way, Joe Smith is a good, reliable shooter and not a bad rebounder. Solid insurance big as well, and get rid of a potential problem in Patterson. Now the Nuggs need to go get 1 or 2 legit perimeter shooters.

Problem for the Nuggs is they lose their best wing defender, in what was already an overall average perimeter defense group. Now you're relying on not much for perimeter defense but a rookie in Diawara and Andre Miller. I hope Diawara turns out to be something though, I like what I've learned about him. Carmelo and JR Smith can be better than average defenders, both have the tools. Just not there yet..

this post looks eerily familiar...

 

[BMiller52]

I bet it means that Denver found a taker for KMart and they're getting Bonzi.

 

[Kings113]

this post looks eerily familiar...

From RealGM? Yes. Most of the time I don't believe in posting something in a different way that's generally the same on another board. If the thoughts are on the short-side, then I do. Lazyness, too.

 

[NugzFan]

knew i saw it somewhere else

 

[VF21]

I bet it means that Denver found a taker for KMart and they're getting Bonzi.

You may have a point. If they do get Bonzi, I still have to wonder how effective he's going to be playing at altitude half the time...

 

[NugzFan]

i really dont want bonzi. he just doesnt fit into our team at all.

 

[Kings113]

I agree.

Bonzi's a very solid and unique wing-player, but wouldn't solve Denver's outside shooting woes at all. At least Joe Smith is a good mid-shooter, but that isn't perimeter shooting. Bonzi would improve the perimeter defense some, but isn't quite what Patterson is. Wonder how JR Smith would feel about not starting and not really being committed to, again, as well.

 

[walker60]

The one thing that Bonzi would bring to the SG position though is the ability to put the ball in the hoop on his own. Ruben is good, but he get's garbage points and relies on other players to set him up. Bonzi is a guy who can score on his own. While ideally the Nugs want a good shooter, the reality is that they need a SG period. Bonzi is the best SG left, and that's why it is somewhat of a fit.

 

[Kings113]

Just about all of their guys are slashers, hustle point scorers, and then you have Carmelo who is all of those and a mid-range shooter. Joe Smith is mid-range and under. Even if Joe Smith can shoot it from just inside the arc, that's just one guy, and not going to significantly address the long-distance shooting needs. Also unknown if he'll be a third PF, or backing up Nene. Bonzi's a mid-range wing and under scorer. They'd still have no one to kick it out to that's proven at shooting the ball from long-range. They haven't had one since 03-04 in Lenard.

Since then, they've had to rely on guys who can shoot from long, but aren't reliable, good, or consistent shooters; DeMarr Johnson/Greg Buckner/Earl Boykins. Thus, have paid for it in glaring fashion, the most recent example being their awful playoff series vs. the Clippers. Which turned out to be quite a downer of a series overall, quality-wise. They had Wesley Person for part of 04-05, who was/is a legit shooter, and played pretty well for them. But that was for half a season, and barely played in the playoffs.

Getting one or two guys like House/Jumaine Jones/KVH/Rush/Kukoc/McCarty (lower option), would be great off the bench, and can spot start. House is still a good shooter outside of the Suns system, as he showed with us in 2005.

Bonzi's the best SG out there, but is not a good fit for the Nuggs and doesn't really compliment their offense.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

^^^
JR Smith has real potential to become a three point threat, if he could screw his head together and start taking more conservative shots. He's definitely not a bad shooter and he can drill long-range three point bombs from even 30 feet.

Boykins is a very mediocre three point shooter. He had an aberration that one season when he had to make a name for himself with Golden State, but ever since then he's started to slash, create, and hit mid-range shots more.

 

[Kings113]

That remains to be seen with JR Smith though. He also would be coming off the bench if Bonzi goes there, which would limit his minutes, and development as a young player. Also, could lead to him pouting about his oppurtunity and utilization.

If JR's starting, that's a different situation.

 

[Bricklayer]

That remains to be seen with JR Smith though. He also would be coming off the bench if Bonzi goes there, which would limit his minutes, and development as a young player. Also, could lead to him pouting about his oppurtunity and utilization.

If JR's starting, that's a different situation.

From what I've seen of JR, if he's pouting you just send him to his room and don't lose an ounce of sleep over it.

The Nuggets desperately need a shooter, have for a while. But lest we as Kings fans forget so quickly, the very thing that made Bonzi/Ron so tough for us down the stretch is that we had two big strong post up threats, and basically no team had an answer for both at once. Bonzi may not be ideal for the Nuggets, but I'd cheerfully stake my claim with a Bonzi/Melo talented battering ram duo before I'd just go pick up a lesser player who was just a shooter.

 

[Kings113]

From what I've seen of JR, if he's pouting you just send him to his room and don't lose an ounce of sleep over it.

The Nuggets desperately need a shooter, have for a while. But lest we as Kings fans forget so quickly, the very thing that made Bonzi/Ron so tough for us down the stretch is that we had two big strong post up threats, and basically no team had an answer for both at once. Bonzi may not be ideal for the Nuggets, but I'd cheerfully stake my claim with a Bonzi/Melo talented battering ram duo before I'd just go pick up a lesser player who was just a shooter.

Well, that wouldn't be good for the Nuggs or JR if that situation did arise. When they first got JR I figured they'd be committing to him as their young starting SG to pair with Carmelo.

With Bonzi/Ron, we actually had shooters with that group though - Bibby/Brad/Kevin. Bonzi/Melo would be great, yes, but Denver wouldn't have the shooters to compliment them. Carmelo's a streaky mid-range shooter so far. They'd need to trade for a shooter, and/or somehow get one for cheap. That player or players would have to come off the bench as well, making it different than what we had, and a bit more difficult to utilize.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Bucks:

Mo Williams/Charlie Bell/Steve Blake
Redd/Patterson/Bell
Patterson-Simmons/Patterson-Simmons/Noel/Illyasova
Villanueva/Skinner
Bogut/Gadzuric/Ha

Nuggs:

Andre Miller/Boykins
JR Smith/Free-agent or Hodge
Carmelo/Kleiza/Diawara/Hodge/Najera
Nene/Martin/Smith/Najera/Kleiza
Camby/Sampson/Nene

Interesting front-court situation for the Nuggs.

Think Nene starts at PF? We'll see. See him more as 3rd big man PF/C combo, with Smith getting decent minutes behind Martin, and Sampson playing precious little more than he did here.

It does make sense for the Nuggz to stockpile big men, considering the injury history there.

Now this trade does ruin any chances of the Kings picking up Gadz or Smith for frontcourt help. Don't see any Bonzi deal either, unless it's some sort of bizarre 3 or 4 way sign and trade involving Reggie Evans, Drew Gooden and Chris Wilcox. It probably does mean the end of Van Horn and Evans rumored returns to Denver, so I expect some movement on the big man front now.

 

[Kings113]

Think Nene starts at PF? We'll see. See him more as 3rd big man PF/C combo, with Smith getting decent minutes behind Martin, and Sampson playing precious little more than he did here.

It probably does mean the end of Van Horn and Evans rumored returns to Denver.

Nene - a 6-year 60 million dollar contracted, 23 year-old, needing good minutes to play and develop, third big man? No way.

I'd be really surprised if Nene comes off the bench for most of the season.

KVH would still fit in Denver, he would slot in at SF behind Carmelo. He's much more of an SF anyways. He'd definitely be put over the young, unproven players with potential (Hodge/Diawara/Kleiza). In Kleiza's case, flashes. As far as I know, Denver aren't a rebuilding or young-intented team.

Evans, I agree. Unless Kenyon Martin's moved and Joe Smith will be a third PF, Evans will be off to Minny or Cleveland.