OC Article - Personal loan from Samueli

[Gary]

So 75mil personal loan? Not sure how much this is..
77mil owed to Sac
Relocation fees that will be approx 50mil
75mil borrowed from the NBA

We are looking at 225-275mil in debt depending on how much the Samuelli loan is. Maloofs don't have the beer distributorship anymore. Supposedly they only own 12% of the Palms, and they have the Kings... Seriously.. How broke are these Maloofs?

Why are they looking to move the team if they actually;
A) made money here
B) have the most loyal fans int he NBA
C) will have over 100mil in relocation fees PLUS what needs to be paid to sac UPON MOVING..

Where is the profit here? Am I blind? Where is the $$$$ in moving this team south that can't be worked out here?

Why on earth would the Maloofs flat out ignore any lastt ditch effort from KJ, and the ICON group and everyone else that had approached them? Are the Maloofs afraid that they will lose the team in the IMMEDIATE future if they don't take this Samuelli bailout?

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

You don't get it my Anaheim friend, or sympathizer.. Why would they have to borrow the money if they are fine in regards to their financial situation? Why would the NBA allow this move?

I know this isn't college Basketball but it does raise some questions about the Maloofs motives.

If this loan was for the $77 million, its just basically changing who they are making payments to in the future. All businessmen borrow money. They won't use their own money if their company can get the loan and repay it. That goes for even the richest of them.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

If this loan was for the $77 million, its just basically changing who they are making payments to in the future. All businessmen borrow money. They won't use their own money if their company can get the loan and repay it. That goes for even the richest of them.

The NBA would still need to know about it because if they can't repay it it could effect the team.

 

[Gary]

If this loan was for the $77 million, its just basically changing who they are making payments to in the future. All businessmen borrow money. They won't use their own money if their company can get the loan and repay it. That goes for even the richest of them.

I am no psychic, but my hunch is that the Maloofs need a BIG bailout and the only way they can keep 51% of the Kings is if they go south and have Samuelli bail them out. There is risk to this but I think the Maloofs need IMMEDIATE help even at the risk of incurring more debt.

That's just my hunch, and until someone proves to me otherwise I am going to stick with that. Why else would the Maloofs act like slimeballs and not even listen to any proposal to keep them here? Why? Because they need money now.

I think they burned their bridges here a while back and would have had a hard time getting a loan from Sac when they already owe the city a buttload of money..

All this seems reasonable to me.

EDIT: to add more I think the ONLY way they do NOT file if possible is to swallow their pride and work something out with the people that are vested in keeping the Kings in Sac that have deep pockets. I am sure they will want collateral, but doesn't Samuelli want some as well?

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I am no psychic, but my hunch is that the Maloofs need a BIG bailout and the only way they can keep 51% of the Kings is if they go south and have Samuelli bail them out. There is risk to this but I think the Maloofs need IMMEDIATE help even at the risk of incurring more debt.

That's just my hunch, and until someone proves to me otherwise I am going to stick with that. Why else would the Maloofs act like slimeballs and not even listen to any proposal to keep them here? Why? Because they need money now.

That sums up my feelings as well. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the loan was even to be used on player salary. They probably know they don't have enough disposable funds to take another bad year in Sacramento with a league low salary. They can't afford to put a good team on the floor, so they figured they'd use the loan money in Anaheim to load up the roster and then make money from sellouts with a really good team.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

So 75mil personal loan? Not sure how much this is..
77mil owed to Sac
Relocation fees that will be approx 50mil
75mil borrowed from the NBA

We are looking at 225-275mil in debt depending on how much the Samuelli loan is. Maloofs don't have the beer distributorship anymore. Supposedly they only own 12% of the Palms, and they have the Kings... Seriously.. How broke are these Maloofs?

Why are they looking to move the team if they actually;
A) made money here
B) have the most loyal fans int he NBA
C) will have over 100mil in relocation fees PLUS what needs to be paid to sac UPON MOVING..

Where is the profit here? Am I blind? Where is the $$$$ in moving this team south that can't be worked out here?

Why on earth would the Maloofs flat out ignore any lastt ditch effort from KJ, and the ICON group and everyone else that had approached them? Are the Maloofs afraid that they will lose the team in the IMMEDIATE future if they don't take this Samuelli bailout?

They owe Sac the $77 million (-penalty for moving) even if they don't move. The only additional debt they are incurring is the penalty. The same idea goes for the NBA loan, they have to pay that back whether they are in Sac or Anaheim. Also, they took a credit line of $75 million, but the NBA never confirmed how much of it was used.

From what I've heard, they already loss majority control of the Palms and own 15% while remaining as the operator. In my opinion, thats actually better in terms of being financially stabilized because the terms of their loans has been restructured. They are no longer in a limbo where they would try to pump money from other sources to save the Palms. Its already too late for them to save it.

The only new debt that they would incur is the cost of the relocation. The NBA loan and the Sac loan will always be there whether they stay or not. Now regarding why the Maloofs don't want to give KJ a chance is all speculation. Maybe they are tired of trying and failing.

 

[SacTownKid]

What I want to know is this, are NBA owners allowed to use their ownership stake in a team as collateral for loans??? I thought the NBA was very strict on who they let into the "club". If the Maloofs default there's all of a sudden a new owner on the board, one that wasn't OK'd by the NBA. Unless the NBA gives the OK on the loan of course. Can owners do that though?

 

[SacTownKid]

They owe Sac the $77 million (-penalty for moving) even if they don't move. The only additional debt they are incurring is the penalty. The same idea goes for the NBA loan, they have to pay that back whether they are in Sac or Anaheim. Also, they took a credit line of $75 million, but the NBA never confirmed how much of it was used.

From what I've heard, they already loss majority control of the Palms and own 15% while remaining as the operator. In my opinion, thats actually better in terms of being financially stabilized because the terms of their loans has been restructured. They are no longer in a limbo where they would try to pump money from other sources to save the Palms. Its already too late for them to save it.

The only new debt that they would incur is the cost of the relocation. The NBA loan and the Sac loan will always be there whether they stay or not. Now regarding why the Maloofs don't want to give KJ a chance is all speculation. Maybe they are tired of trying and failing.

If KJ can prove that the Sacramento area is viable and there are real signs of potential for getting an arena built I don't like the Maloofs odds of getting the votes needed to move into an oversaturated market to "make ends meet". I don't think being tired is going to cut it. They are going, or at least should, have to work much harder than that.

 

[jpsls]

Maybe they are tired of trying and failing.

Maybe they just don't want to be in Sacramento period. You can tell from video interviews outside of the Hotel that they are flustered from the idea that investors are willing to commit significant resources to keep the team in Sacramento. If they truly want to stay in Sacramento, they would at the very least listen to what Burkle and co. have to say.

 

[Gary]

What I want to know is this, are NBA owners allowed to use their ownership stake in a team as collateral for loans??? I thought the NBA was very strict on who they let into the "club". If the Maloofs default there's all of a sudden a new owner on the board, one that wasn't OK'd by the NBA. Unless the NBA gives the OK on the loan of course. Can owners do that though?

I think that's why there is an extension. I think the BOG see's what a lot of us have seen. The Maloofs are borrowing money left and right, and the paper trail for these "Loans" don't make a lick of sense. Something is fishy, and I don't believe the Maloofs are as financially fit as they are leading everyone to believe.

Enter Burlke. The Maloofs say "no sale" but KJ and Burkle have a plan that will make the Maloofs money next year in order to keep them in Sac. But wait! The Maloofs don't want to hear any of this because they wouldn't last another year unless someone could give them upwards of 75mil RIGHT NOW and bail them out of their financial woes.

The BOG sees this and needs to investigate whether or not the Maloofs are just being stubborn and really WANT to be in Anaheim or are they moving the team because they are broke and need the bailout, but cannot ask Sacramento for cash because of them already owing Sac 77mil. Or does Sac even have a plan... If Sac has a plan I can't see the NBA letting the Kings move, which in that case the Maloofs probably reveal their financial woes and end up selling within a year or two.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

The NBA would still need to know about it because if they can't repay it it could effect the team.

You are assuming that when Youngman says that the personal loan had not been publicly disclosed as if they tried to hide it from the NBA. It can also mean that the loan was just not publicly disclosed previously until the BoGs meeting.

If this was the under the table deal that is being eluded to hear, I would assume any journalist would at least write a dedicated article for this breaking news that he just cracked rather than just include it in a brief one liner deep into the article. Youngman is the same guy that has been pro moving the Kings to Anaheim since the light rumors from a few years ago. All in all, I just don't see him being the only guy to know of this if it was really an under the table deal.

 

[Section 101]

They owe Sac the $77 million (-penalty for moving) even if they don't move. The only additional debt they are incurring is the penalty. The same idea goes for the NBA loan, they have to pay that back whether they are in Sac or Anaheim. Also, they took a credit line of $75 million, but the NBA never confirmed how much of it was used.

From what I've heard, they already loss majority control of the Palms and own 15% while remaining as the operator. In my opinion, thats actually better in terms of being financially stabilized because the terms of their loans has been restructured. They are no longer in a limbo where they would try to pump money from other sources to save the Palms. Its already too late for them to save it.

The only new debt that they would incur is the cost of the relocation. The NBA loan and the Sac loan will always be there whether they stay or not. Now regarding why the Maloofs don't want to give KJ a chance is all speculation. Maybe they are tired of trying and failing.

But they have collateral on the current city loan. What is the collateral for the Samueli loan?

The reported number was the $75 million. The max amount each team could borrow is $125 million.

And I've asked this before. Where did that money from the league go? It was from 2 years ago. They didn't spend it on the arena or the team. If they used it on the Palms they wouldnt want that info to get out. Hence the we wont sell stance. It wouldnt surprise me if they already took a loan from Samueli and moving the team is part of the payment for defaulting on it.

You are also forgetting the extra $25 million to remodel the Honda Center and the prepayment as new debt. So that makes is relocation fees + $35 million. Also, if the revenue sharing happens they will be a big market and have to pay into that as well instead of receiving.

 

[Gary]

Maybe they just don't want to be in Sacramento period. You can tell from video interviews outside of the Hotel that they are flustered from the idea that investors are willing to commit significant resources to keep the team in Sacramento. If they truly want to stay in Sacramento, they would at the very least listen to what Burkle and co. have to say.

Which leads me to believe there is more to this. It can't be all about an arena.. This has to do with bailing the Maloofs out, and the BOG seeing this and possibly telling them the Kings stay in Sac, and if they don't like it, sell the team.

 

[Section 101]

What I want to know is this, are NBA owners allowed to use their ownership stake in a team as collateral for loans??? I thought the NBA was very strict on who they let into the "club". If the Maloofs default there's all of a sudden a new owner on the board, one that wasn't OK'd by the NBA. Unless the NBA gives the OK on the loan of course. Can owners do that though?

I think that is part of the not understanding all the parts of the anaheim deal statement from Stern. They want clarification.

 

[Gary]

But they have collateral on the current city loan. What is the collateral for the Samueli loan?

The reported number was the $75 million. The max amount each team could borrow is $125 million.

And I've asked this before. Where did that money from the league go? It was from 2 years ago. They didn't spend it on the arena or the team. If they used it on the Palms they wouldnt want that info to get out. Hence the we wont sell stance. It wouldnt surprise me if they already took a loan from Samueli and moving the team is part of the payment for defaulting on it.

You are also forgetting the extra $25 million to remodel the Honda Center and the prepayment as new debt. So that makes is relocation fees + $35 million. Also, if the revenue sharing happens they will be a big market and have to pay into that as well instead of receiving.

Exactly.. the more and more I dig the uglier this gets.. Things just aren't making sense at all from the Maloofs POV.. What the heck did they use that 75mil from the NBA on? Doesn't make sense.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

You are assuming that when Youngman says that the personal loan had not been publicly disclosed as if they tried to hide it from the NBA. It can also mean that the loan was just not publicly disclosed previously until the BoGs meeting.

If this was the under the table deal that is being eluded to hear, I would assume any journalist would at least write a dedicated article for this breaking news that he just cracked rather than just include it in a brief one liner deep into the article. Youngman is the same guy that has been pro moving the Kings to Anaheim since the light rumors from a few years ago. All in all, I just don't see him being the only guy to know of this if it was really an under the table deal.

It doesn't matter if it was publicly disclosed or not. What matters if whether it was part of their presentation or not and whether the league is OK with it or not.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

If KJ can prove that the Sacramento area is viable and there are real signs of potential for getting an arena built I don't like the Maloofs odds of getting the votes needed to move into an oversaturated market to "make ends meet". I don't think being tired is going to cut it. They are going, or at least should, have to work much harder than that.

A couple things. David Stern himself is also tired of trying in Sac and is still skeptical of their ability to get it done. The only way to prove that they can get an arena done is if they have solid confirmed funding signed and ready to go when the committee shows up. A good plan to TRY doesn't cut it. Not for Stern, and you can bet that he will voice his opinions to the committee if they report back to him that there is no confirmed funding. Regarding the OC market, Stern himself thinks the LA metro area can support 3 teams. The committee will also look into that.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

A couple things. David Stern himself is also tired of trying in Sac and is still skeptical of their ability to get it done. The only way to prove that they can get an arena done is if they have solid confirmed funding signed and ready to go when the committee shows up. A good plan to TRY doesn't cut it. Not for Stern, and you can bet that he will voice his opinions to the committee if they report back to him that there is no confirmed funding. Regarding the OC market, Stern himself thinks the LA metro area can support 3 teams. The committee will also look into that.

Samueli, is that you?

 

[Section 101]

A couple things. David Stern himself is also tired of trying in Sac and is still skeptical of their ability to get it done. The only way to prove that they can get an arena done is if they have solid confirmed funding signed and ready to go when the committee shows up. A good plan to TRY doesn't cut it. Not for Stern, and you can bet that he will voice his opinions to the committee if they report back to him that there is no confirmed funding. Regarding the OC market, Stern himself thinks the LA metro area can support 3 teams. The committee will also look into that.

No. KJ already told them they wont have the finances done by May 2nd. If what he did tell them wasnt good enough then they wouldnt have needed the extension. What Stern wants is a viable plan in place. It doesn't have to have the financing in place. They could vote to delay it till the financing comes in. As Stern said, they can have a team ready to play in another building quickly as did the Hornets after Katrina.

Of course Stern is going to say he thinks 3 teams would work. If he said the opposite the whole relocation would be over now.

 

[Gary]

Samueli, is that you?

Yah no crap.. Anaheim Royal fan or something.. You really want the Kings to move don't you Peter?

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

The reported number was the $75 million. The max amount each team could borrow is $125 million.


You are also forgetting the extra $25 million to remodel the Honda Center and the prepayment as new debt. So that makes is relocation fees + $35 million. Also, if the revenue sharing happens they will be a big market and have to pay into that as well instead of receiving.

From the source I read, the max credit line was for $125 million for each team but the Kings took a $75 million line. Taking a credit line doesn't mean you have to tap into it. It just means you have that amount pre-approved for when you want to use it. The NBA did not disclose how much of it was actually used.

I did not forget the improvement cost. I said what they have to pay is "the cost of the relocation" which includes all the newly incurred cost to move. The loan to repay Sac is not new aside from the early move penalty. The NBA loan is also not new and will need to be repaid regardless.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

It doesn't matter if it was publicly disclosed or not. What matters if whether it was part of their presentation or not and whether the league is OK with it or not.

Thats the whole point. Its all speculations as no one knows if this was presented and what its for. But most on here have already sentenced this as a shady under the table deal.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Thats the whole point. Its all speculations as no one knows if this was presented and what its for. But most on here have already sentenced this as a shady under the table deal.

Well, they did say they were things about the Anaheim deal that were unclear. Possibly that was one of them.

 

[jpsls]

No. KJ already told them they wont have the finances done by May 2nd. If what he did tell them wasnt good enough then they wouldnt have needed the extension. What Stern wants is a viable plan in place. It doesn't have to have the financing in place. They could vote to delay it till the financing comes in. As Stern said, they can have a team ready to play in another building quickly as did the Hornets after Katrina.

Of course Stern is going to say he thinks 3 teams would work. If he said the opposite the whole relocation would be over now.

Agreed. Kevin Johnson confirmed that the financing did not have to be in place in the next two weeks. It's ludicrous to think (maybe not considering this is Stern we're dealing with) that NBA owners would give Johnson two weeks to get a concrete deal in place with committed financing on a $500 million arena.

Furthermore, the extension is more to allow the Maloofs time to refute Johnson's claims that Sacramento has a corporate presence. One of the Maloof brothers stated on camera that Stern wanted them to file an extension to relocate. Stern knows the Maloofs would have been denied relocation if they filed on Monday. So this extension is not purely about Kevin Johnson's and Sacramento's ability to get an arena, it's also about giving the Maloofs time to et their sh*t together because they have a formidable opponent.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

It wouldnt surprise me if they already took a loan from Samueli and moving the team is part of the payment for defaulting on it.

I actually heard precisely that a few weeks ago though I assumed the source may have amalgamated a few separate stories at the time.

 

[Section 101]

Thats the whole point. Its all speculations as no one knows if this was presented and what its for. But most on here have already sentenced this as a shady under the table deal.

Hmm, I guess I missed this today, but it seems the Anaheim deal changed the past few days. Could be referring to the personal loan or something else.

Stern said other NBA owners still have an "incomplete" understanding of the Anaheim deal, which he said has changed within the past few days. He said the group of owners studying a possible Kings relocation has questions about TV revenue, needed upgrades to Anaheim's arena and relocation costs.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/04/16/3556995/nba-extends-deadline-for-kings.html#ixzz1JfWcmxdW

 

[Tetsujin]

Samueli, is that you?

My money's on Tom Tait.

 

[Gary]

Thats the whole point. Its all speculations as no one knows if this was presented and what its for. But most on here have already sentenced this as a shady under the table deal.

And I hope this is.. don't you? Or do you have some motive to put them in Anaheim?

 

[ParniValjak]

Surely this has to impact the decision making of the BOG?!

This is another great little thing that points to the favor of Sacramento but its not over by a long shot! I hope KJ has a lot more up his sleeve to just blow this whole relocation thing out of the water.

I hope the visit from the committee goes even better than his address at the BOG meeting. The more skepticism KJ and the team can create amongst the owners, the better it is for us.

EDIT: This brings me to another point, there should be a hard written rule in the NBA: If your net worth is not more than $2 billion you should own the team!

 

[Bricklayer]

Thing is the NBA is not going to look kindly on a deal which is going to inevitably result in Samueli becoming the new owner of the Kings without the NBA getting to approce him/the deal. They especially aren't going to look kindly on it if its part of some behind the scenes backdoor deal. Nor are they going to appreciate at all one of their franchises being moved for financial considerations not involving NBA revenues. If any or all of that stuff is in fact the case, Sacramento could be as close to retaining the Kings as putting forward a credible, financed, and ready to break ground in the next year or so arena plan. Or maybe given the history I should say Sacramento could be as far from retaining the Kings as. In any case, its a huge opening if there has been dealing here in the Maloofs' interest but not the NBA's.