Now you know why the Kings have become my other favorite team...
- Thread starter celtics33
- Start date
lwc
Starter
Something within me knew that the Dallas Rondo would not be the Rondo the Kings got. I'm glad to know that I was right.
The way he is playing, his contract is an absolute steal. The only thing that worries me is if the Kings make the playoffs, teams are going to hack him like crazy to shoot free throws.
With that said, I will take problems in the playoffs because that means we would actually be in the playoffs lol.
The way he is playing, his contract is an absolute steal. The only thing that worries me is if the Kings make the playoffs, teams are going to hack him like crazy to shoot free throws.
With that said, I will take problems in the playoffs because that means we would actually be in the playoffs lol.
celtics33
G-League
Free throws depend very much on a player's state of mind as on his shooting mechanics. The guy looked pretty relaxed and in full control of himself during these past games... I am confident he is aware of that weakness of his and I foresee him working on it in practice. His jump shot seems more solid than usual too.
Well, I for one fully admit to having been a sceptic of this signing. I thought that the injury would have slowed him down and prevented him from returning to something at least resembling his old form. And his time in Dallas wasn't reassuring.
Haven't been so glad to be wrong in a long time. Keep it up, Rondo. Keep it up.
Haven't been so glad to be wrong in a long time. Keep it up, Rondo. Keep it up.
celtics33
G-League
Way to go, Warhawk.
King Baller
All-Star
With Rondo only being 29 I figured he just needed time to fully recover from injury. His temperament and style of play seemed to be great for a team built around DeMarcus and Rudy.
Carlisle has a history of wanting to control the game. Check out the quotes and links below:
Carlisle had plenty of confrontations during his time in Indiana coaching Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Jamaal Tinsley and the like.
The Pacers were good. They won 61 games and advanced to the Eastern Conference finals in Carlisle’s first season. They won a playoff series the next year despite the “Malice at the Palace” savaging their roster with suspensions.
Throughout they played a slow, deliberate style, with Carlisle meticulously controlling the game from the sidelines, calling plays on nearly every possession.
Former Pacers recall that being particularly frustrating for Tinsley, who had been given much more freedom under previous coach Isiah Thomas. Anthony Johnson, a point guard on the team, remembers asking Carlisle if he’d play the same way with Kidd, then considered the NBA’s premier point guard.
“If I had Jason Kidd, you’d better believe I’d let him go,” Johnson remembers Carlisle answering.
And
“Rick and Jason used to get into it about the exact same thing except Jason’s demeanor was so quiet that a lot of times people didn’t know that they were arguing,” former Mavs center Brendan Haywood, who joined the team in 2009, remembers. “They had an argument on the bench with four-letter words going back and forth, but no one knew because of Jason’s demeanor.”
“Things only got contentious when we were losing,” Carlisle said in his spacious hotel suite during a break from watching film the night before the Mavs’ April 10 win in Denver. “I mean, you’re talking about a guy who’s one of the most resourceful winners in the history of the game and whose moods were totally influenced by winning and losing. So when we were going good, things were good. And when we were losing, it killed him.”
Kidd was coy when asked about the calm confrontations on the bench between him and Carlisle.
“Oh, maybe. I won’t answer yes or no,” Kidd said with a grin. “We disagreed sometimes. Players are going to disagree.”
Link to article---> http://www.getatthebookie.com/2015/08/13/rondo-not-the-only-player-carlisle-has-had-a-clash-with/
Rondo is a very good player, it just did not work out in Dallas. That is in the past now.
You know Carlisle is a successful coach. He just did not see eye to eye with Rondo.
Still I place most of the blame on the Coach. He is supposed to be the wiser more mature person. That is kind of the reason they call him "Coach".
Carlisle has a history of wanting to control the game. Check out the quotes and links below:
Carlisle had plenty of confrontations during his time in Indiana coaching Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Jamaal Tinsley and the like.
The Pacers were good. They won 61 games and advanced to the Eastern Conference finals in Carlisle’s first season. They won a playoff series the next year despite the “Malice at the Palace” savaging their roster with suspensions.
Throughout they played a slow, deliberate style, with Carlisle meticulously controlling the game from the sidelines, calling plays on nearly every possession.
Former Pacers recall that being particularly frustrating for Tinsley, who had been given much more freedom under previous coach Isiah Thomas. Anthony Johnson, a point guard on the team, remembers asking Carlisle if he’d play the same way with Kidd, then considered the NBA’s premier point guard.
“If I had Jason Kidd, you’d better believe I’d let him go,” Johnson remembers Carlisle answering.
And
“Rick and Jason used to get into it about the exact same thing except Jason’s demeanor was so quiet that a lot of times people didn’t know that they were arguing,” former Mavs center Brendan Haywood, who joined the team in 2009, remembers. “They had an argument on the bench with four-letter words going back and forth, but no one knew because of Jason’s demeanor.”
“Things only got contentious when we were losing,” Carlisle said in his spacious hotel suite during a break from watching film the night before the Mavs’ April 10 win in Denver. “I mean, you’re talking about a guy who’s one of the most resourceful winners in the history of the game and whose moods were totally influenced by winning and losing. So when we were going good, things were good. And when we were losing, it killed him.”
Kidd was coy when asked about the calm confrontations on the bench between him and Carlisle.
“Oh, maybe. I won’t answer yes or no,” Kidd said with a grin. “We disagreed sometimes. Players are going to disagree.”
Link to article---> http://www.getatthebookie.com/2015/08/13/rondo-not-the-only-player-carlisle-has-had-a-clash-with/
Rondo is a very good player, it just did not work out in Dallas. That is in the past now.
You know Carlisle is a successful coach. He just did not see eye to eye with Rondo.
Still I place most of the blame on the Coach. He is supposed to be the wiser more mature person. That is kind of the reason they call him "Coach".
ockingsfan
Starter
Rondo is cut from the same cloth as DMC.
He has a screw loose when it comes to wanting to WIN and he hates to lose. This is good, we need more players like him and DMC.
Another sense I get from Rondo is that he is very LOYAL.
I think that he really appreciated the Kings for believing in him, when NOBODY else in the NBA would give him a chance. The NBA and the media thought he was washed up, except for the Kings and Vlade.
I think as long as the Kings give him a fair market deal next year, if he continues to play like this, the Kings would be able to resign him to something like a 4 year $60-70 mil deal or about a $16-17/mil a year deal.
He has a screw loose when it comes to wanting to WIN and he hates to lose. This is good, we need more players like him and DMC.
Another sense I get from Rondo is that he is very LOYAL.
I think that he really appreciated the Kings for believing in him, when NOBODY else in the NBA would give him a chance. The NBA and the media thought he was washed up, except for the Kings and Vlade.
I think as long as the Kings give him a fair market deal next year, if he continues to play like this, the Kings would be able to resign him to something like a 4 year $60-70 mil deal or about a $16-17/mil a year deal.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Ditto. I always liked Rondo in Boston..... bought into the narrative that he was done, was against the signing....
.... keep feeding me that crow Rondo!
Awesome pickup.
IfAt1st
Starter
What I want to know is:
*) When are Larry David, Amit149 and the others going to man up and publicly admit they were wrong about Rondo?
They were quite certain he was going to be a failure, bust, etc:
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/rajon-rondo-split.62183/#post-1195787
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/kings-free-agency-part-3.61483/page-21#post-1188806
I'll quote myself from that one:
*) Where is hrdboild, and why isn't he crowing from the rooftops how right he was?
Really, pretty much ALL of KF's (except for me and KingsFanGER) were against Rondo coming here.
It's rather interesting to see the opinions of Rondo from just April: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/lets-talk-about-rajon-rondo.60719/
P.S. props to Warhawk and gunks for manning up and admitting they misjudged Rondo.
*) When are Larry David, Amit149 and the others going to man up and publicly admit they were wrong about Rondo?
They were quite certain he was going to be a failure, bust, etc:
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/rajon-rondo-split.62183/#post-1195787
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/kings-free-agency-part-3.61483/page-21#post-1188806
I'll quote myself from that one:
*) Where is hrdboild, and why isn't he crowing from the rooftops how right he was?
Really, pretty much ALL of KF's (except for me and KingsFanGER) were against Rondo coming here.
It's rather interesting to see the opinions of Rondo from just April: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/lets-talk-about-rajon-rondo.60719/
P.S. props to Warhawk and gunks for manning up and admitting they misjudged Rondo.
What I want to know is:
*) When are Larry David, Amit149 and the others going to man up and publicly admit they were wrong about Rondo?
They were quite certain he was going to be a failure, bust, etc:
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/rajon-rondo-split.62183/#post-1195787
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/kings-free-agency-part-3.61483/page-21#post-1188806
I'll quote myself from that one:
*) Where is hrdboild, and why isn't he crowing from the rooftops how right he was?
Really, pretty much ALL of KF's (except for me and KingsFanGER) were against Rondo coming here.
It's rather interesting to see the opinions of Rondo from just April: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/lets-talk-about-rajon-rondo.60719/
P.S. props to Warhawk and gunks for manning up and admitting they misjudged Rondo.
For someone who speak against snap judgement, you sure are quick to the "I-told-you-so"
Here's the thing, Rondo has played better than I expected- no doubt about it, and I would love for it to continue... But most of my doubts about him still stands:
His shooting is still very bad, which can create a lot of problems- especially when DMC won't shot 3's with the same % as KD and Curry.
His FT shooting is still miserable- 35% for a PG is extremley bad, and it limits his game.
His defense, which was a major point of contention (with some calling a "lock-down" defender), has been pretty bad thus far with his opponents shooting 6.4% better on him than on average.
And he is still very ball dominant (not necessarily a problem, but something there was disagreement on), with him leading the entire league in touches.
Those flaws can hurt us if teams will plan ahead to use it.
It's also important to note that for all the talk about him he still holds a slightly below league average PER at 14.8.
And a lot of the noise about him came from his "triple-doubles" which is an extremely over-rated achivement imo since they get much more attention than stat-lines like Cousins had last night which are clearly far more affective.
So he has been playing much better than my expectation, but I'll still like to reserve judgement at this point.
The Hammer
All-Star
What I want to know is:
*) When are Larry David, Amit149 and the others going to man up and publicly admit they were wrong about Rondo?
They were quite certain he was going to be a failure, bust, etc:
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/rajon-rondo-split.62183/#post-1195787
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/kings-free-agency-part-3.61483/page-21#post-1188806
I'll quote myself from that one:
*) Where is hrdboild, and why isn't he crowing from the rooftops how right he was?
Really, pretty much ALL of KF's (except for me and KingsFanGER) were against Rondo coming here.
It's rather interesting to see the opinions of Rondo from just April: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/lets-talk-about-rajon-rondo.60719/
P.S. props to Warhawk and gunks for manning up and admitting they misjudged Rondo.
For the record, I was extremely pro Rondo from the first hint we might get him.
King Baller
All-Star
For someone who speak against snap judgement, you sure are quick to the "I-told-you-so"
Here's the thing, Rondo has played better than I expected- no doubt about it, and I would love for it to continue... But most of my doubts about him still stands:
His shooting is still very bad, which can create a lot of problems- especially when DMC won't shot 3's with the same % as KD and Curry.
His FT shooting is still miserable- 35% for a PG is extremley bad, and it limits his game.
His defense, which was a major point of contention (with some calling a "lock-down" defender), has been pretty bad thus far with his opponents shooting 6.4% better on him than on average.
And he is still very ball dominant (not necessarily a problem, but something there was disagreement on), with him leading the entire league in touches.
Those flaws can hurt us if teams will plan ahead to use it.
It's also important to note that for all the talk about him he still holds a slightly below league average PER at 14.8.
And a lot of the noise about him came from his "triple-doubles" which is an extremely over-rated achivement imo since they get much more attention than stat-lines like Cousins had last night which are clearly far more affective.
So he has been playing much better than my expectation, but I'll still like to reserve judgement at this point.
Amit149, you spend a lot of time writing about what Rondo cannot do. Mostly the things you mention are numbers. When i watch Rondo play I see a winner. I see him constantly talking to his teammates about what is going on at BOTH ends of the floor. Rondo may be one of the best Floor Generals of all time. I can't think of a player who makes his teammates better to a higher degree than Rondo.
If the Kings stay healthy and IF Coach Karl uses Small Ball sparingly the Kings are going to be a much improved team.
Chupacabra
Starter
What I want to know is:
*) When are Larry David, Amit149 and the others going to man up and publicly admit they were wrong about Rondo?
They were quite certain he was going to be a failure, bust, etc:
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/rajon-rondo-split.62183/#post-1195787
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/kings-free-agency-part-3.61483/page-21#post-1188806
I'll quote myself from that one:
*) Where is hrdboild, and why isn't he crowing from the rooftops how right he was?
Really, pretty much ALL of KF's (except for me and KingsFanGER) were against Rondo coming here.
It's rather interesting to see the opinions of Rondo from just April: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/lets-talk-about-rajon-rondo.60719/
P.S. props to Warhawk and gunks for manning up and admitting they misjudged Rondo.
lol I love the demand for accountability. For some reason I find it necessary to point out that I was not a part of the group that the "pretty much all of kf.com" was comprised of. His play in Dallas was pretty discouraging. However you can easily spin this as a major signing when you consider a few things; compared to what we had the previous year (Collison & Sessions), the details of Rondo's contract, the way that Rondo would fit, and the potential for Rondo returning to all star form. I never saw a way that you could not be excited about the Rondo deal. Most of our past problems have had to do with management or selfish players. Rondo is neither.
celtics33
G-League
King Baller for President!
All of KF was against Rondo? huh.
twslam07
All-Star
What I want to know is:
*) When are Larry David, Amit149 and the others going to man up and publicly admit they were wrong about Rondo?
They were quite certain he was going to be a failure, bust, etc:
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/rajon-rondo-split.62183/#post-1195787
http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/kings-free-agency-part-3.61483/page-21#post-1188806
I'll quote myself from that one:
*) Where is hrdboild, and why isn't he crowing from the rooftops how right he was?
Really, pretty much ALL of KF's (except for me and KingsFanGER) were against Rondo coming here.
It's rather interesting to see the opinions of Rondo from just April: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/lets-talk-about-rajon-rondo.60719/
P.S. props to Warhawk and gunks for manning up and admitting they misjudged Rondo.
I'm more than willing to say that I was one of the people here who was not in favor of the Rondo signing, but my reasons were much different than the majority who fell on that side. I've stated multiple times that it was because I thought he wouldn't be a good fit with Cousins and Gay. I actually had a lot of faith in him returning to the level he was in Boston, but just because someone is talented, it doesn't mean they will mesh with the rest of your team.
Spacing was my biggest concern. A starting lineup that has a poor shooting PG, an inconsistent shooting SG, an average 3pt shooting SF, a non-shooting PF, & a good midrange shooting C sounded like a recipe for disaster. However, Rondo has been respectable from midrange, McLemore is shooting 40% from deep, and Cousins has emerged as a solid 3pt threat. For now, I don't see any real issues with the spacing, and if you don't have spacing issues with Rondo, that more than likely means your team is heavily benefiting from a Rondo led team compared to a team that isn't led by Rondo.
At this point, I will say that I was wrong, and I couldn't be happier about it
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
I Didn't want rondo. I Thought he'd be a horrible fit and a diva in Sacramento. I Thought our spacing would be horrible and he'd wouldn't be starting by game 5.
Watching the Kings from 07-14 has given me serious trust issues.
Watching the Kings from 07-14 has given me serious trust issues.
IfAt1st
Starter
Yeah, pretty much everyone was (in April).
Go read: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/lets-talk-about-rajon-rondo.60719/
A few more trickled in their support in the later threads (June-ish) but it was pretty lonely for us in the "I'd like the Kings to try out Rondo and see what he could do for us" camp only 6 months ago.
Lots of dismissive posts, prejudging and reaching conclusions based off single-minded stats and hearsay (hey, where have we seen that phenomenon before on KF's?).
I do believe hrdboild weathered a few near-insulting remarks about his continued defense of Rondo, "the washed-up cancer".
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celtics33
G-League
Easy to be cute and go "I said it!", but....
The most sincere compliments for a very exciting Kings team! I bleed Celtics green, and it's just going to be soooo nice to see Kings taking and owning California.
Treasure Rondo, guys... he's the real deal. Watching him night in, night out, is something I envy you guts!
celtics33, Oct 6, 2015 Edit Delete Report
******
Rondo is way more than barely pick'n roll.. It's been one year and I'm still trying to get over the fact we (the Celts) let him go.
The axe center-point guard is the backbone of a solid basketball team, the guy is very unselfish and despite all the *hit they tried to put on him in Dallas (mostly to cover someone else's failures), he is definitely not a quitter.
Thus, his impact will be visible on Boogie, giving him that extra motivation he seemed to lack so far.
Rondo will never be or play like Collison, which I really like too, but he has a much better set of skills to set the pace on a team, whereas Collison seems to me more a "special-team" guy can come in and lead the second unit to an higher level.
Anyway, I am going to watch several Kings' games this year and, please... beat LA!
celtics33, Oct 6, 2015 Edit Delete Report
The most sincere compliments for a very exciting Kings team! I bleed Celtics green, and it's just going to be soooo nice to see Kings taking and owning California.
Treasure Rondo, guys... he's the real deal. Watching him night in, night out, is something I envy you guts!
celtics33, Oct 6, 2015 Edit Delete Report
******
Rondo is way more than barely pick'n roll.. It's been one year and I'm still trying to get over the fact we (the Celts) let him go.
The axe center-point guard is the backbone of a solid basketball team, the guy is very unselfish and despite all the *hit they tried to put on him in Dallas (mostly to cover someone else's failures), he is definitely not a quitter.
Thus, his impact will be visible on Boogie, giving him that extra motivation he seemed to lack so far.
Rondo will never be or play like Collison, which I really like too, but he has a much better set of skills to set the pace on a team, whereas Collison seems to me more a "special-team" guy can come in and lead the second unit to an higher level.
Anyway, I am going to watch several Kings' games this year and, please... beat LA!
celtics33, Oct 6, 2015 Edit Delete Report
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Eh, I don't like quoting myself but will for the purpose of this conversation.
I don't think he'd be as bad a fit here as some are making it out to be. Nor do I think what happened in Dallas is a true representation of what he'll be next year. If you commit to a guy like Rondo you must commit to letting him run the offense. Karl allows his PGs to do that. Carlisle had him walk it up the court at a slow tempo and called out almost every play. Can't do that with a Rondo type.
A problem is our roster doesn't appear to fit Rondo all that well. Rudy isn't a good spot up shooter, Ben/Nik still have a lot of growth they need to exhibit and we don't have a 4 who can hit jumpers. I have no idea where our spacing would come from. If we could get Rondo/Cuz into P&Rs and space the floor with yet to be acquired shooters, there is some upside to that idea.
That said, he is friends with Cuz and Rudy. Karl is a creative coach. If Rondo wanted to come here and checked his attitude, I'd be hopeful. I do have quite an issue with him quitting on his team though. If it was a situation of offering Rondo 10M/Y or taking on Lawson and his atrocious contract, I might have to side with Rondo. I wouldn't be all that happy with either though and in general, with all the good PGs in the league today I find our PG situation to be depressing. And I know some want more a role playing PG and to upgrade at the 2. I understand that argument but my preference would be to upgrade at PG as that position generally has a severe impact on a team's ceiling unless you're putting a ball dominant Kobe/Wade/Harden out there at the 2. With the modern day lack of elite SGs, that's a tougher blueprint to follow.
And I think that was pretty fair. The quitting on Dal rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. You have to question that. I also however thought Dal/Carlisle was a terrible fit for him and actually, what Carlisle did with Rondo is one of the biggest negatives of his coaching career. I'd say concerns about his fit with our roster were fair. This was pre-Marco, pre-DeMarcuvic Cousitzki, pre-Omri boosting his 3pt % by 12%.
All that being said, we're witnessing Boston Rondo. There wasn't a single team in the league who thought that's what we'd see this year. Vlade obviously had confidence in him but it was a risk any way you slice it and us being Sac, well slim pickings. Rondo's been a stud thus far though so I'm happily surprised.
I'm not going to speak for others though and their thoughts, or those who thought he was washed up. Carlisle just made an egregious error in his use of him. Rondo still had some game to offer, but 70 assists in his last 5 and three triple doubles in a week level game? No one saw that.
BTW, as to the end of my post above, Rondo is no role player. He's our #2 option and ball dominant. I said, and a number disagreed with me last year, for this team to have a higher ceiling in the modern NBA, our #2 option simply has to be a PG, unless you get a rare ball dominant SG. And Rondo's turned into that for us. Good for Rondo, good for us.
In reading thru that thread there's obviously a few who were completely anti everything to do with Rondo and completely changed their tone. But does it matter so much at this point? We've got our best PG/floor general since Team Dime.
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Chupacabra
Starter
I get the idea that youre expressing but Rondo, although the season is young, looks like perhaps the best pg the Kings have ever had. His overall awareness is unreal.
There was a vocal contingent on both fronts and a lot of us who were pretty much wait and see. People like me who really liked Rondo but weren't going to proclaim him a savior I suspect were a silent majority.
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