Next 5 weeks = Make or Break

[KingsSelecao]

I think it’s pretty clear what type of team the Kings are trying to build. I think the team that the hierarchy is looking to build is similar to the championship winning Detroit teams or the perennial play off teams that Memphis had in Joerger’s time there.

Essentially those teams didn’t really have a genuine franchise level player but what they had was multiple all-star level/type players. This is why I think that to those in charge, pick position doesn’t matter much as long as its a lottery pick. I would still like a top 3-5 pick simply because it’s easier to access top level talent from there and life is that much simpler if you have a franchise level player or two. You still have to hold up your end of the bargain as a franchise but life is easier with that pillar or two in place.

At this stage, no one of the current roster has stepped up ad a franchise level talent. A lot of expectations have been placed on Fox and Giles. They might end up turning into those franchise level players but that is at least a couple of years away.

Joerger built nothing in Memphis. Nothing. The team was already a playoff contender and he DID NOT groom any future players that ended up being good or great. I am not saying he's a bad coach. But, He's nowhere the level of someone like Rick Carlisle. I would say Fred Hoiberg is even better than Joerger.

 

[KingsSelecao]

I think the odds of the Kings making the playoffs is probably generous at 5% and wining 5 more games probably doesn’t change those odds materially.

Whereas 5 wins can swing their odds of securing a top 3 pick by 40%

http://www.tankathon.com/

#math

It will all come down to the trade deadline. If the Kings stand pat, It means their mindset is 8 seed. The Kings front office may think the season was still a success, even if they miss the playoffs. They could win 32-38 games with this lineup. they On the other hand, they will not be able to draft anyone significant. No pick in 19 and very few high quality free agents ever come to Sac. It's the hamster on the wheel theory.

 

[kingsboi]

It must be something in your DNA that you have to disagree with any premise anyone puts forward. My very simple and understandable point is that this team has a chance to put themselves within striking distance of a playoff spot if they crush an upcoming easy schedule, at a time when they seem to be figuring somethings out and coming off a big win. If they don't capitalize on this, lottery it is, but also would be a mental setback. And by "make" it, I mean taking the next step towards respectability and having a record near .500 in February. That would be the next big step for this team. Would be big big step to see happen this season, but not totally out of the question at this point. And, do I need to add an "in my opinion" here? Or are you going to attack me by saying I'm stating my opinion as fact?

The bigger point here is that this is a make or break thread for kingsboi. He really has a chance to take the next step in his debate skills by letting go of his habit of being deliberately obtuse, and instead take the premise of an argument on good faith and responding to the intention and meaning of the post.

attack me all you want but the fact remains that you adding the word "playoffs" and the Kings in the same sequence is simply delusional thinking. I'm not the one to tell you how to feel and think but I'd figure I'd state my opinion on it anyway regardless of whether it's in my DNA or not.

 

[SacTownKid]

I wouldn’t say that

Doncic
Ayton
Bagley
Young
Porter
Jackson

Are all ahead of him easily

It will be interesting to see where he ends up. I like Jackson as a prospect, but I think he's not as a prolific. He could always develop and find a real role as a stretch big but I wouldn't put him at any set level. I'd put the potential of Knox and Bridges over him. Probably Sexton too.

 

[SacTownKid]

Joerger built nothing in Memphis. Nothing. The team was already a playoff contender and he DID NOT groom any future players that ended up being good or great. I am not saying he's a bad coach. But, He's nowhere the level of someone like Rick Carlisle. I would say Fred Hoiberg is even better than Joerger.

Yeah, somewhere along the line Joerger became some type of can't miss coach. He could end up being that, but nothing he's done burned the league up and the Grizz couldn't show him the door fast enough. Part of my excitement with him was his system being such a great fit for Cuz. Times change and that same system is a terrible fit for the players the Kings are building around now. He's right in a sense because it will make them more versatile as players in the long run if they get it. The the eternal question is whether or not it will destroy them first. The reality is that this is Dave Joergers first real litmus test as a coach so I can fully understand why he would be very against going full youth and is relying on his old pal Zbo to ease the pain. From what some Grizz fans said though it was some of the same rotation things and lineup changes he did in Memphis that soured them on him in the first place.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think the odds of the Kings making the playoffs is probably generous at 5% and wining 5 more games probably doesn’t change those odds materially.

Whereas 5 wins can swing their odds of securing a top 3 pick by 40%

http://www.tankathon.com/

#math

It's looking like you'll need to be above .500 to make the playoffs this year in the west and the hole the Kings have dug themselves is fairly deep already. The Kings have also had one of the easier schedules in terms of the competition faced. The bulk of the games they have against the real meat of the west are still to come. They seem to be able to pounce on the teams they really should beat considering they are trotting out one of the more experienced lineups at the start of games and we'll have to see if the win against the Cavs was an anomaly or them rising to the competition finally.

 

[The Hammer]

attack me all you want but the fact remains that you adding the word "playoffs" and the Kings in the same sequence is simply delusional thinking. I'm not the one to tell you how to feel and think but I'd figure I'd state my opinion on it anyway regardless of whether it's in my DNA or not.

Not attacking, benevolently ruling over and paternally coaxing towards new levels of self awareness.

I now see that you had not been intentionally ignoring the tongue-in-cheek way in which I called this month the "playoffs" for the Kings, you are, as of yet, simply unable to perceive such rhetorical devices. What an exciting future of linguistic discovery you have ahead of you!

 

[kingsboi]

Not attacking, benevolently ruling over and paternally coaxing towards new levels of self awareness.

I now see that you had not been intentionally ignoring the tongue-in-cheek way in which I called this month the "playoffs" for the Kings, you are, as of yet, simply unable to perceive such rhetorical devices. What an exciting future of linguistic discovery you have ahead of you!

So you think using big fancy words makes your point any better?

 

[The Hammer]

So you think using big fancy words makes your point any better?

My extemporaneous loquaciousness is primarily for my own amusement.

 

[kingsboi]

My extemporaneous loquaciousness is primarily for my own amusement.

are you related to Einstein? how about Theodore?

 

[The Hammer]

are you related to Einstein? how about Theodore?

No but I can see why you'd think so.

edit: not actually sure who this Theodore fellow is but sounds interesting since he's mentioned in the same breath as a genius (me).

 

[206Fan]

You don't know that nobody does. These are all just prospects at the end of the day.

Bridges has shown that he can't create his own offense at the collegiate level. Now, we haven't seen Porter Jr play in college at all, but he's done it in the Nike Hoop Summit and other big tournaments.

 

[SacTownKid]

Bridges has shown that he can't create his own offense at the collegiate level. Now, we haven't seen Porter Jr play in college at all, but he's done it in the Nike Hoop Summit and other big tournaments.

How so? Have you watched him play? There is plenty of footage out there that shows he can and I think much of what he does could work much better at the NBA level where teams can't just sink into the paint for the whole play clock. He's like a charging bull with the ball at the top of the key and that means he could live at the line in the NBA. I don't think he needs to be that anyway because his potential to impact that game with his athletic ability and defensively make up for some of it. Now, if he does put it all together he's going to be the next Vince Carter. I don't personally expect that but in todays league having someone like him will be awfully nice regardless.

 

[206Fan]

How so? Have you watched him play? There is plenty of footage out there that shows he can and I think much of what he does could work much better at the NBA level where teams can't just sink into the paint for the whole play clock. He's like a charging bull with the ball at the top of the key and that means he could live at the line in the NBA. I don't think he needs to be that anyway because his potential to impact that game with his athletic ability and defensively make up for some of it. Now, if he does put it all together he's going to be the next Vince Carter. I don't personally expect that but in todays league having someone like him will be awfully nice regardless.

Yea I've watched him a lot at MSU. I was actually hoping he'd declare for the draft so we could pick him up at #10. Right now, I don't think he has enough wiggle room or ball handling to consistently be a down-hill attacker. He'll do fine on straight-lane drives, but that limits him. He can finish with either hand, but he's had trouble finishing against length this year. I don't think he's much of a threat with the ball in his hands...probably the most important thing for a franchise player. He can certainly improve, but I don't think Bridges is one of those guys you want to build an entire team around. He's the guy you'd want to put alongside your best player.

I'd like to see him put it all together, and I think he still can if he improves his ball handling...but I'm just not loving what I see from him this year. I thought he could shoot up to a top 3 pick IF he improved his ball handling and showed more aggression as a #1 scorer. Just haven't seen enough improvements in his game this year.

When he's in 1 on 1 scenarios, he just can't break down defenses. In the Duke game, all he did was settle for the 3pt shot. Not sold at his ability to create separation.

 

[dude12]

Joerger built nothing in Memphis. Nothing. The team was already a playoff contender and he DID NOT groom any future players that ended up being good or great. I am not saying he's a bad coach. But, He's nowhere the level of someone like Rick Carlisle. I would say Fred Hoiberg is even better than Joerger.

Terrible

 

[Kingsfan23]

I mean... if we can’t beat the Suns at home.. we are nearing the point where I have to actively root for lins. Catching Denver/OKC seems a bit reaching after something like tonight

 

[KingsSelecao]

they are 7 behind Denver and 8 behind OKC. Both teams are playing a lot better of late. Okc winning 8 of the last 9 and Denver 3 of the last 4. Kings need to reel off 5 -6 straight wins to get them in the conversation. Tonite would have been a nice start. After Memphis and Charlotte, the schedule gets a lot tougher.

 

[ParniValjak]

Joerger built nothing in Memphis. Nothing. The team was already a playoff contender and he DID NOT groom any future players that ended up being good or great. I am not saying he's a bad coach. But, He's nowhere the level of someone like Rick Carlisle. I would say Fred Hoiberg is even better than Joerger.

Seems to me that your comprehension skills need a LOT and I mean a LOT of work.

Please quote me where I said Joerger groomed or built a team in Memphis? I think you are jumping at shadows and reading what you want to read and not what is written.

 

[Blob]

If the Kings win too much and are still in a position to draft someone with the potential of Miles Bridges then it's the rest of the GM's that ****ed up. Bridges is a beast.

Agree. Miles Bridges is potentially great. There's something special there. Him and De'Andre Ayton are the only two players I like so far though I have not seen a lot of the prospects yet. Bridges has some James Harden to his game.

 

[Blob]

I think y’all are wildly out of whack regarding Giles’ expeactions. The expectations by most here are possible but improbable.

I like Skal’s odds slightly more than Giles and I’ve always been very skeptical of Skal (even in the spring). Even this summer, when most of you were way too high on Skal and saying the critsism of that was unreasonably negative

Jerry Reynolds said Giles is already the best passer on the team. That is saying something since Boggy is a really good passer. Giles also has a 7'6" wingspan so I expect him to pretty much average 20/10/5 right out of the gate.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yea I've watched him a lot at MSU. I was actually hoping he'd declare for the draft so we could pick him up at #10. Right now, I don't think he has enough wiggle room or ball handling to consistently be a down-hill attacker. He'll do fine on straight-lane drives, but that limits him. He can finish with either hand, but he's had trouble finishing against length this year. I don't think he's much of a threat with the ball in his hands...probably the most important thing for a franchise player. He can certainly improve, but I don't think Bridges is one of those guys you want to build an entire team around. He's the guy you'd want to put alongside your best player.

I'd like to see him put it all together, and I think he still can if he improves his ball handling...but I'm just not loving what I see from him this year. I thought he could shoot up to a top 3 pick IF he improved his ball handling and showed more aggression as a #1 scorer. Just haven't seen enough improvements in his game this year.

When he's in 1 on 1 scenarios, he just can't break down defenses. In the Duke game, all he did was settle for the 3pt shot. Not sold at his ability to create separation.

You can make a decent career doing just that. He's also very good at riding the baseline and finishing at the opposite side of the rim. His corner 3 is coming along with it so that's a very high potential move by itself.

I don't see him as a franchise player but I also don't think this draft is guaranteed to have 5 of them in the top 7-8 that are also guaranteed to be anything more than him as a total package. I've said it before and still can see the argument for taking players like Bagley, Ayton, Porter Jr., maybe Doncic, and maybe even Bamba over him.

As for him settling, he's playing true SF this year. That was the challenge coming in for him and he's far from failed IMO. I do think his best position at the next level will probably be PF but he's showing that he should be able to spend plenty of time at SF or be able to play in a positionless system and defend 4-5 positions some nights. Just like any draft I think this one might be a bit like last year where certain teams seem to tilt towards certain players. There is always some bust potential with any prospect who isn't fully developed but I can't see too many players above him in terms of potential and fit in todays NBA.