News 10 - Host of Issues Stall Deal Over New Arena Plan

[Warhawk]

Some of us (well many if you count all those non local Kings fans), simply don't require close proximity as a condition of being a fan.

I think Sacramento is a special place and personally, that has nothing to do with whether it has a pro sports franchise or not. I mean, it is the capital of one of the largest economies in the world. If that doesn't make it important, I don't know what does. I have no problem at all finding fun things to do around here, very few of those depending in any way on the Arena. While I follow the Kings closely, and consider myself a fairly rabid fan, I don't need them around to validate the fact that I think Sacramento is a pretty peachy keen place to live.

I feel bad about the fact that some folks can't just enjoy where they live without constantly worrying about some sort of odd perception that folks in other places are always putting us down. Except for the talk in LA when they were dissing us due to the rivalry with the Lakers, I'd seldom hear mention of Sacramento at all. People in other cities just have better things to worry about frankly.

Some of us love having a nearby team to call our "own" and not have to envy other cities that can keep a team so the locals can enjoy the games in person.

I've lived near Sacramento almost all my life and agree with your assessment that Sacramento is a great place to live.

You seem to have a thing for not wanting local entertainment and wanting to drive long distances to see things (from some of your previous posts). Any reason why? Wouldn't you rather have the shorter drives to attend events (longer drives effectively remove large portions of the population from being able to attend) and keep the sales tax revenue inside the city? The money you spend on gas alone would be enough to pay for your "share" of an arena.

Can you also not see that for many Kings fans, having the local team makes the city that much more fun to live in? The Kings have helped give this town a new identity, free advertising around the world, and helped bring in businesses due to increased quality of life (interviews performed a few years back, IIRC). It has helped raise our status around the world from a marketing standpoint alone.

Why are you so eager to go back 20 years and eliminate all the benefits having the Kings brings to this city?

Why do you not want an arena here for other major events?

 

[Wert]

Some of us love having a nearby team to call our "own" and not have to envy other cities that can keep a team so the locals can enjoy the games in person.

Some of us realize that not everyone in every other city covets a local pro franchise to boost up their civic pride.

You seem to have a thing for not wanting local entertainment and wanting to drive long distances to see things (from some of your previous posts).

Nope, wrong.

I simply believe there is already a plethora of fun things to do around the area to the point that an arena is simply gravy. And for the record, I seldom need to drive to Tahoe, reno, san francisco, etc. to find great entertainment and even then I don't consider any of those "far". Hell scads of people here in sacramento commute just as far to San Francisco and other places on a daily basis.

I do not believe that the overall concept of "local entertainment" hinges purely on having a new arena. Many cities (heck even Sacramento!) have plenty of local entertainment (Plays/movies/museum/concerts/outdoor entertainment/etc.) without a huge sports complex.

Any reason why? Wouldn't you rather have the shorter drives to attend events (longer drives effectively remove large portions of the population from being able to attend) and keep the sales tax revenue inside the city?

I don't have to drive far to find great shows/plays/concerts/museums/outdoor activities right here in Sacramento.

Can you also not see that for many Kings fans, having the local team makes the city that much more fun to live in?

Polls have shown that even many folks who identify themselves as Kings fans aren't fond of the way an arena would have to be financed.

And being a Kings fan and remaining that way even if they aren't local here is not a mutually exclusive concept for many folks (see all the non local fans, many that don't even live in california!)

It has helped raise our status around the world from a marketing standpoint alone.

Hard figures please? I'd like to see it broken down with a clear correlation shown. I don't believe any city has great need of a sports franchise merely to gain more respect. I do think having a nice sports facility is certainly nice, but by no means a necessity.

Why are you so eager to go back 20 years and eliminate all the benefits having the Kings brings to this city?

That's just emotion speaking. I think folks overstate the overall benefits to the region. And "going back 20 years" is just ridiculous, ignoring the other growth in the city in that time that has nothing to do with the Kings being here.

Why do you not want an arena here for other major events?

I never said I didn't want an arena. You just assume that because I question the way it would have to be financed, that I don't want it at all.

And that's simply not the case.

I'd like nothing better than to see a nice ballot measure that I could support.

I'm honestly very disappointed that it looks like there won't be something on the ballot this fall.

 

[D-Mass]

And that's simply not the case. I'd like nothing better than to see a nice ballot measure that I could support.

What do you propose? I think you've exhausted us all with your line-by-line arguments...I don't recall you ever stating what type of ballot measure you would support. If you truly are an enthusiastic fan who wants to see a new arena, surely you can put your energy towards helping find a solution rather than arguing with those of us who apparently have the same goal as you.

 

[Wert]

What do you propose?

What make you think I (or any of us here on these forums) would be listened to even if we did have some magical great idea that hasn't already been hashed over by those in power for the last 6 years?

I'll let the city and the maloofs do their thing and then vote on what comes out of it.

If they can't get their act together and create something concrete to present to the voters, it's no skin of my nose.

If you truly are an enthusiastic fan who wants to see a new arena, surely you can put your energy towards helping find a solution rather than arguing with those of us who apparently have the same goal as you.

Boy, it's the old "Only you can prevent forest fires" meme.

I did like some of the earlier proposals floated, none of which seemed to take in any real way with the city or the maloofs. But none came to the point where a fully thought out proposal was ever offered, so I can't say whether or not I"d have supported them or not.

I chuckle at the notion that I'm somehow not an "ethusiastic fan" simply because I can't solve a myriad of issues that have eluded the city and the Maloof's for over six years now.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....

 

[D-Mass]

Dude, all I was looking for was an idea. Something...anything you WOULD support. I'm just starting to get the idea that you're firmly in the "let the spoiled-brat brothers pay for it" camp.

For the record, the caps in the above post are simply to emphasize a particular word. I don't yell with text.

 

[Wert]

Dude, all I was looking for was an idea. Something...anything you WOULD support. I'm just starting to get the idea that you're firmly in the "let the spoiled-brat brothers pay for it" camp.

Then you'd be wrong. Do you understand that a full proposal to support has never even been floated? Is it my fault that many of the partial (and quickly discarded) proposals have have so many obvious issues/roadblocks? What point is there in me getting behind any proposal if the city and maloofs aren't going to use it?

But I understand you seem to prefer denigrating me and my points with "well nyah nyah, you can't solve the issues either!"

I'm a fan (and local taxpayer) who would like nothing better than to have a well thought out ballot issue to vote on.

 

[D-Mass]

Then you'd be wrong. Do you understand that a full proposal to support has never even been floated?

But I understand you seem to prefer denigrating me and my points with "well nyah nyah, you can't solve the issues either!"

You continue to misread me...and I try not to taunt people, especially in a medium where the only method of showing emotion is with those little emoticons.

You are dodging...I just want to know what you would vote FOR. I'm not asking you to solve it, and I'm not asking you to predict what might or might not come out of these meetings. Just a general idea of what would make you bite.

 

[Wert]

You are dodging...I just want to know what you would vote FOR.

No, your demurrals to the opposite ("I'm not asking you to come up with a plan, blah blah...) you're asking me what I'd support when no fully thought out plans exist or have been presented in any offiical way at the ballot box.

Some folks might be happy forming premature opinions based on insufficient facts concerning plans that never even reached full fruition, but I'm not one of them.

It's not my fault that the city planner's and Maloofs have so far failed to present any complete plan to the public for a vote.

I'm not asking you to solve it, and I'm not asking you to predict what might or might not come out of these meetings.

And how would I know that? I'm not a psychic who can read the minds of the Maloofs or city planners. Aside from being a taxpayer able to vote on final proposals, what do you expect me to do? Call up Joe and Gavin and bend their ear about the way I think things ought to be?

To expect that of me (or anyone for that matter) makes no sense at all.

 

[VF21]

D-Mass: Sometimes the only way to win is simply to refuse to play any longer.

 

[Wert]

D-Mass: Sometimes the only way to win is simply to refuse to play any longer.

I quite agree.

It's often easier to "cut and run" (or perhaps use the old "deflect, detract, and denigrate tactic") rather than address honestly held opinions that might be distressing to some.

 

[BMiller52]

I quite agree.

It's often easier to "cut and run" rather than deal with opinions that might be distressing to some.

No dude you're dodging his question. It's pretty obvious.

 

[Wert]

No dude you're dodging his question. It's pretty obvious.

If it makes you feel better to believe that I'm "dodging" simply because I won't support some mythical "plan" that doesn't even exist in any sort of official way, then yeah, I won't disabuse you of that rather amusing notion.

Whatever gets you through the night and all that...

Dude.

 

[JB_kings]

Some of us realize that not everyone in every other city covets a local pro franchise to boost up their civic pride.

See, it's asinine comments like this that tick people off. How do you know how much pride I have in the city I have lived nearly all my 45 years? And because I have lived here so long that it does bother me deeply that my favorite team may leave. If the Cubs left Chicago, there would be millions of heart broken fans in their city. Does that mean that they don't also love their parks, museums and all the other wonderful things that make Chicago a great city? Of course not. For many of us, it isn't a take or leave it proposition like it is for you. Why is that so hard to understand? So yes we are passionate about the Kings and want them here. So what? You act like that is some sort bad thing.

 

[VF21]

As I said before, sometimes the only way to deal with vexations to the spirit is simply to ignore them. Arguing only feeds the flames.

 

[Wert]

See, it's asinine comments like this that tick people off.

Asinine? Try "True". More than one person here has said that Sacramento "won't get as much respect", "will be set back 20 years", blah blah, just because they might not have a sports franchise here in the near term future.

I'll not apologize or stop pointing out that such an emotional take on things isn't necessarily shared by all the Kings fans out there. Recent multiple polls back the fact that while a lot of folks consider themselves Kings fans, they have issues with the way planning for a new arena is going.

How do you know how much pride I have in the city I have lived nearly all my 45 years?

I'm only referring to the very common meme that I often hear in these forums.

I never claimed to know what you personally believe and I frankly don't care.

Some folks (and I never said "And JBkings believes!) tie their civic pride to certain things and some don't. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough for you about that.

And because I have lived here so long that it does bother me deeply that my favorite team may leave.

I understand your distress, but I think it's silly to imagine the whole (or even a majority) of folks in Sacramento feel the same way.

I love the Kings and will continue to love them even if they're not local. If you can't for some reason, deal with the fact that they might leave, well, that seems a rather personal issue.

 

[Wert]

As I said before, sometimes the only way to deal with vexations to the spirit is simply to ignore them. Arguing only feeds the flames.

I agree.

Those who get stressed over opinions that differ from their own preconceived, tightly cherished and rose tinted notions are cordially invited to put me on their "ignore list".

For those who might not know, the option is available from the "User CP" under "Buddy / Ignore Lists". Just make sure to spell my name correctly so that the forums can properly protect one from my nasty habit of expressing opinions that one might not agree with or wish to hear.

I promise it won't bother me a bit.

 

[JB_kings]

Listen Wert, I'm not going to waste any more of my time having dialog with you. You seem to have a pretty high opinion of yourself and there's just not enough room on the internet for your opinion and everyone elses.

 

[Wert]

and there's just not enough room on the internet for your opinion and everyone elses.

Hm, that's news to me.

I don't recall in any way keeping you (or anyone else here for that matter) from expressing their opinions even though I disagree with them at times.

 

[VF21]

Wert - Knock it off. This forum is about our concerns for a new arena. It is not All Wert All The Time.

You have made your position abundantly clear. When you start to provoke other people into going off topic simply to defend themselves from your attacks, you have gone too far.

This is a warning. The next step with be the issuance of an infraction for not following the rules of this forum.