Nerlens Noel is a KING! One year deal

[Ozymandias]

Our 4th Kentucky player!

Nerlens Noel is really a gifted defender.. I truly believe he'd have helped us in that series vs the Warriors. $3MM is a bargain!

One of my favorite things he does, which is rather abnormal for a player that height is he's good at dropping low and can get his hands on stuff more upright n stiff bigs couldnt dream of..

We really should be more menacing defending the passing lanes than last season, and with our offense thats a recipie for trouble for opponents, maybe we can get some more blowout wins n dont have to rely so much on De'Aaron in the 4th.. Duarte is really excellent in the passing lanes as well starting breaks..

 

[Ozymandias]

I disagree with the takes that he's not gonna be in the rotation or that Len is ahead of him on the depth chart. This move has playoff implications!

Len proved you can sit him during the season n get him unrusted in the last few games last season too, no reason to "stretch out" alex len like he's some starting pitcher were trying to get innings out of... He's a 3rd stringer..

Noel is more servicable to be put on the court than Len in most scenarios, in a vacuum, even more so on the Kings roster.. AND he's more servicable than RICHAUN HOLMES was, which is of utmost importance finally we see a move coinciding with the draft day trade of Holmes...

Now we have a proper platoon behind Sabonis, with Lyles being the smallball C, and Nerlens Noel being the mobile long oreb defensive oriented C, with emphases on MOBILE (which len is not at this stage going into 2024) and LONG.

Its a matter of eating space.. I cant wait to see how just the little bit extra space that Noel eats up with his length and mobility, how that little bit of space helps everyone else... Cuz watching the Kings last year thats one thing that was really missing, and didnt seem like it was all that unobtainable, just that we didnt have it.


And listen, Queta isnt a terrible player, but he can't do what Noel can do, and we dont need what Queta can do, Len provides quite a bit of that, Sabonis does what Queta does in spades. Len's a vet n can sit he's not in need of big reps like Queta. Queta does nothing for us in that 7 game series vs the Warriors, I say Noel coulda been a factor, n u'd be crazy to think the Kings F/O isnt in that same boat.

 

[Ozymandias]

PLUS this solves quite a bit of the mystery of how Vezenkov fits here.. Simple and plain... Problem solved..

Vezenkov at PF and Noel at C is WAY more palatable defensively than our other options..

Now we can TEST the Vezenkov- Lyles all firepower lineup rather than be forced into it.. Which makes so much more sense..

 

[captain bill]

I know he's had some injury issues but this is someone who appeared in 17 games last year (11.5 minutes per) and 25 the year before. It's fine to kick the tires on but he seems like someone on the downswing. Maybe he's gotten healthier after some injury issues 2 years ago and we can get him on a resurgence. Which is turning into a trend with this FO with DDV, Duarte, and now Noel. I'd almost rather have seen him on ten days when the season starts but maybe the FO knows something about his health that led them to locking him down now

This also seems like a pretty big vote of no-confidence in Queta. If Neemi can't figure out a niche for himself he may be destined for a career as a G-league / international stud. He seems to be suited to a more limited role at the big show but hasn't really found that fit yet, unfortunately. He may be better served on a rebuilding team that has the minutes to let him get acclimated and find his NBA game, but those minutes unfortunately aren't available here as we push to get back to the playoffs

 

[The_Jamal]

I like that idea of an awesome platoon behind Domas now, especially if he misses time. Lyles is your offensive firepower, Noel is your rangy switchable defensive 5 and Len is the space eater. I can buy 48 minutes of that if Domas goes down for a couple weeks. Now we won't be relying on Queta for any sort of minutes if Domas does go down.

The real test is if we see Vezenkov and Lyles on the floor with a big at the same time to determine what the rotation is going to look like. If coach believes that can work, then Noel/Len are probably going to be the 10th guy in the rotation while Duarte/Jones/Kessler are match-up/injury related to get minutes. I still think Lyles at the 5 is going to be the first option we turn to.

 

[Tetsujin]

Sure it feels like Nerlens has been in the league forever but he’s still somehow half a year younger than Richaun Holmes.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Monte “4 or 5 centers” McNair

 

[Tetsujin]

Monte “ 4 or 5 centers” McNair

“**** it. One of these guys will work out eventually”

 

[SacTownKid]

No, the truth is that some people realize those terms are misunderstood and misused by others.

Clearly you are among those misunderstanding and misusing the terms.

To prove the point, I’ll ask you to prove the notion of a “ceiling” regarding player development. You can’t do it. Because it’s subjective, made up nonsense.

Furthermore, Vezenkov and Duarte will be part of the core 8-9 and neither were on the team last season. So that defeats the definition of “running it back” in the context of competition. You’ve even unwittingly acknowledged this fact with your “as close as it gets” comment.

You’re 0 for 2 dude.

Then why keep repeatedly bringing it up then? I agree. It's subjective so why get all bent out of shape over it? lol.

I said, 8-9, I have Sasha has that 9th guy and one new in the main rotation at this point. It might end up different but the play will determine that. If Duarte is part of the 8-9 who is he playing over? I'm interested.

 

[SacTownKid]

Sure it feels like Nerlens has been in the league forever but he’s still somehow half a year younger than Richaun Holmes.

It's because for some reason he's had one foot out of the league for awhile it would seem. It's strange too because he seemed to have value just a few seasons ago as a rotation piece.

 

[Ozymandias]

Funny thing is too.. If you look back at that 2013 draft, Alex Len goes 5th and Noel goes 6th. There was actually reports that the Cavs had narrowed down their choices at #1 to Len and Noel.

They actually had a big showdown in college Maryland vs Kentucky and I remember Len looked really good, it definitely skyrocketed his value, Maryland Lost but he had like 20 and 10 while Noel didnt score much.

So its quite funny to see this thread immediately break out into some Len v Noel discussion (which is fair and warranted) it sorta echoes convos from a decade ago.

 

[Fear the Putin]

Love this

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Funny thing is too.. If you look back at that 2013 draft, Alex Len goes 5th and Noel goes 6th. There was actually reports that the Cavs had narrowed down their choices at #1 to Len and Noel.

They actually had a big showdown in college Maryland vs Kentucky and I remember Len looked really good, it definitely skyrocketed his value, Maryland Lost but he had like 20 and 10 while Noel didnt score much.

Will be fun for them to meet up on the same team. I'm sure they'll have a chuckle and a smile or two. Though not too much - they're competing for the same minutes.

 

[Supreme]

I call it 23 minutes on the entire year. Not 23 a game. 23 minutes in the year. Not including playoffs.

 

[Ozymandias]

Will be fun for them to meet up on the same team. I'm sure they'll have a chuckle and a smile or two. Though not too much - they're competing for the same minutes.

Well the thing is.. I mean he's our guy now.. But Nerlens Noel has had some bad luck along the way.. Now, it happens, not saying anyone should pity him or anything like that BUT

lotta people like to do these sorta "summaries" about a player like Noel, n often critical details are overlooked.


For one... That ACL injury he had in college ended up costing him SO much money... Secondly; He's a young man who got some bad advice from older people he trusted, they told him to turn down a contract he shouldnt have, which Rich Paul seems to usually do great for his clients, Noel is one of the few with a gripe.

At the same time the league has changed, and even more than the league, the C position has changed, Noel has gone sort of from in style to out of style, now his skillset is actually quite valuable in a backup capacity on a roster like the Kings (far as I'm concerned)


But the Noel and Len from that 2013 draft are not the ones we see now. Noel is closer to the same, definitely improved his FT shooting from a coinflip to closer to 70%. Len is different, he's not shooting any midrange J's, he's heavier, has his FT shooting regressed a bit? cant really tell, seems like it, idk i thouight he had potential to be 75% type he used to make so many midrange j's in a row in warmups, he was being compared to zydrunas illgauskas at that point, n he's definitely WAY stronger now.


But yeah that game/matchup with Noel/Kentucky completely skyrocketed Len's value in the draft, no doubt about it, I watched that game live, Len played great. pretty sure Len's english was still pretty crude at that point too, I remember there was some story Len found some girl on Maryland's campus who basically helped his english tremendously, this was all around that same time..

WAIT I WAS WRONG LOOK AT THE FOOTAGE, Lots of the damage Len did was vs who else but Willie Cauley-Stein.. XD.. k ive said too much in this thread im out.

 

[whitechocolate]

I was hoping for this.

 

[gunks]

Next Keon Clark?!!

I can't imagine he gets too much time. By the end of the season, Len had earned those backup 5 minutes, and I'm also hoping we experiment more with the Lyles at the 5 "smallball death lineup" when the matchup is right next season.

Still..... I could see him getting a few minutes per game just to mix up the defense with some paint protection. I could also see a lot of "Nerlens Block Party" signs cropping up if he regularly gives us a highlight block in those minutes!

 

[Ozymandias]

It occured to me -- We have SOOOOO many lottery picks on this team now... Who's got more lottery picks than us? It's almost like we didnt make the playoffs for 20 years when u look at this list...

Murray 4th in 2022
Len 5th in 2013
Fox 5th in 2017
Noel 6th in 2013
Barnes 7th in 2012
Mitchell 9th in 2021
Sabonis 11th in 2016
Monk 11th in 2017
Lyles 12th in 2015
Duarte 13th in 2021


thats kinda the entire rotation when you think about it, not really just a matter of 'look at how many we have on the team' like they'll list in a TV graphic, the 1st n 2nd strings are basically comprised entirely of lotto picks now, even Huerter went 19th and Vezenkov/Colby Jones are exactly the types of 2nd rd picks you'd want complementing a roster loaded with lotto picks.

so I'm liking the 2023-2024 roster construction much more than last szn, and we'll need it to be superior cuz our competition is improving too. Far as I can tell, we've taken into consideration our weaknesses and shored them up accordingly and just have achieved greater continuity up and down the roster, there's reason to believe the 3pt shooting could be better and also the defense, rebounding, ballmovement and actually the fast break, and at minimal cost and risk and length of commitment, so mission accomplished (and Holmes is off the books)! To me this kinda signals the end of the offseason, now we've got our team. I also believe we've achieved slightly greater depth (I think we were pretty deep last year so its not the easiest for the FO to improve on in great leaps)

 

[Caccia]

It occured to me -- We have SOOOOO many lottery picks on this team now... Who's got more lottery picks than us? It's almost like we didnt make the playoffs for 20 years when u look at this list...

Murray 4th in 2022
Len 5th in 2013
Fox 5th in 2017
Noel 6th in 2013
Barnes 7th in 2012
Mitchell 9th in 2021
Sabonis 11th in 2016
Monk 11th in 2017
Lyles 12th in 2015
Duarte 13th in 2021


That's kinda the entire rotation when you think about it, not really just a matter of 'look at how many we have on the team' like they'll list in a TV graphic; the 1st n 2nd strings are basically comprised entirely of lotto picks now, even Huerter went 19th and Vezenkov/Colby Jones are exactly the types of 2nd rd picks you'd want complementing a roster loaded with lotto picks.

So I'm liking the 2023-2024 roster construction much more than last szn, and we'll need it to be superior cuz our competition is improving too. Far as I can tell, we've taken into consideration our weaknesses and shored them up accordingly and just have achieved greater continuity up and down the roster, there's reason to believe the 3pt shooting could be better and also the defense, rebounding, ball movement and actually the fast break, and at minimal cost and risk and length of commitment. So mission accomplished (and Holmes is off the books)! To me this kinda signals the end of the offseason, now we've got our team. I also believe we've achieved slightly greater depth (I think we were pretty deep last year so its not the easiest for the FO to improve on in great leaps)

Interesting post. What leaps out to me, at least, is that most of these high draft picks took a few years to really develop. Most front offices just do not have that patience, or their coaches do not have the patience, or their coaches are lousy at developing talent.

 

[Woot!]

Many like to repeat certain terms they’ve heard or read. It spreads like a virus.

“Run it back” and “ceiling” are quite infectious around here.

It’s not uncommon for winning teams, especially those on the upswing, to keep much of their core intact. But the KINGS have certainly made tweaks and turned over some of their roster.

You’re right. That’s not running it back.

I disagree on the letter, agree w/the spirit of what you're saying.

Getting a couple bench players, only one of whom might be a regular rotation piece (Sasha), is about as running-it-back as the NBA gets. Unless one or both surprises - in a good way - these additions are, as you say, tweaks.

The real problem is thinking that "running it back" is necessarily a bad thing for a team that exited the playoffs early, that the same set of guys can't get better. W/the exception of HB, literally every expected rotation player for the Kings is on the upswing as a baller, and at worst peaking. There's a real chance that Keegan takes a big step. Chemistry and continuity matter. Mike Brown was futzing with the rotations all season. Now, with ~90 games of tape and a long offseason to learn from it, the coaching staff should come into 2023-24 with some fresh ideas about schemes and roles.

There's plenty of reason to hope that "running it back" will be a GOOD thing for our Kings. Especially against the alternative of overspending on guys who wouldn't make the team better.

 

[Ozymandias]

Interesting post. What leaps out to me, at least, is that most of these high draft picks took a few years to really develop. Most front offices just do not have that patience, or their coaches do not have the patience, or their coaches are lousy at developing talent.

Yep.. Part of it was those players were drafted with hopes they'd fulfill much bigger or even completely different roles too, which isnt really always on the players, sometimes the teams are trying to squeeze blood from a stone, sometimes the whole damn league is about to change n even high paid shotcallers didnt see it coming. Lyles and Sabonis for example were drafted that highly by teams hoping they'd be starting PF's, I do believe, and in todays NBA are clearly thriving at the C spot.

Lots of these lotto picks are more in the category of "Reclamation Projects", even Duarte has sorta become that at warp speed, Monk was certainly that, Lyles a successful reclamation for sure earned himself a proper raise, Noel's one, I'm sure he's still trying to drum up enough interest for possibly more $$, why this is a great spot for him, could be mutually beneficial and im sure he'd love to be a contributor on a playoff team, what better way to showcase than in meaningful games?.. It's been working for Monte/Coach Brown (as is going after UK/Coach Cal guys) so I'm glad to see more of the same!

Len is kinda not a project I'd say he's sorta just more of a placeholder, but he fills the role quite well. Strange as it sounds Noel is one of our elder statesman on the roster now, kinda crazy to me he turns 30 next year.

 

[TaxMan]

Well the thing is.. I mean he's our guy now.. But Nerlens Noel has had some bad luck along the way.. Now, it happens, not saying anyone should pity him or anything like that BUT

lotta people like to do these sorta "summaries" about a player like Noel, n often critical details are overlooked.


For one... That ACL injury he had in college ended up costing him SO much money... Secondly; He's a young man who got some bad advice from older people he trusted, they told him to turn down a contract he shouldnt have, which Rich Paul seems to usually do great for his clients, Noel is one of the few with a gripe.

At the same time the league has changed, and even more than the league, the C position has changed, Noel has gone sort of from in style to out of style, now his skillset is actually quite valuable in a backup capacity on a roster like the Kings (far as I'm concerned)


But the Noel and Len from that 2013 draft are not the ones we see now. Noel is closer to the same, definitely improved his FT shooting from a coinflip to closer to 70%. Len is different, he's not shooting any midrange J's, he's heavier, has his FT shooting regressed a bit? cant really tell, seems like it, idk i thouight he had potential to be 75% type he used to make so many midrange j's in a row in warmups, he was being compared to zydrunas illgauskas at that point, n he's definitely WAY stronger now.


But yeah that game/matchup with Noel/Kentucky completely skyrocketed Len's value in the draft, no doubt about it, I watched that game live, Len played great. pretty sure Len's english was still pretty crude at that point too, I remember there was some story Len found some girl on Maryland's campus who basically helped his english tremendously, this was all around that same time..

WAIT I WAS WRONG LOOK AT THE FOOTAGE, Lots of the damage Len did was vs who else but Willie Cauley-Stein.. XD.. k ive said too much in this thread im out.

The NBA draft is such a freaking crapshoot. I usually find it amazing that Len was taken so high in the draft, but I look at those Len highlights and think, damn this guy has got a lot of tools and size.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Getting a couple bench players, only one of whom might be a regular rotation piece (Sasha), is about as running-it-back as the NBA gets. Unless one or both surprises - in a good way - these additions are, as you say, tweaks.

I don’t know how to say it more clearly. “Running it back” means the same exact players. No changes. No exceptions.

That’s not happening here. No matter how small the changes or tweaks might seem to the individual, they are indeed changes. So, again, the term is being misused and misapplied. And being excused on the basis of “well, it’s close enough”.

Moving along, I disagree that only Sasha might be a regular rotation piece. Duarte wasn’t acquired to sit the bench as a 10th - 12th player. Unless he absolutely stinks, he’s gonna play.

And Sasha could possibly become part of the starting 5 if he fits in and shows well. Nobody knows what’s potentially possible at this point. We’re gonna need to see it play out.

 

[Ozymandias]

The NBA draft is such a freaking crapshoot. I usually find it amazing that Len was taken so high in the draft, but I look at those Len highlights and think, damn this guy has got a lot of tools and size.

yep that 2013 draft is one of the ultimate crapshoot drafts too.. cuz like Utah with Gobert.. They just got lucky.. aint no way in the world were they sitting there like "oh Len is actually a 3rd stringer, Noel is a backup, Lucas Noguiera is out of the league in a few years, Gorgui Deng is a journeyman Olynyk is kind of decent so is Mason Plumlee, but, Rudy Gobert he's a max contract guy, this is a no-braner!" HEck NO.. Much more like they probably thought they were all pretty good and got lucky with the right one falling in their laps.

and in the middle of all of this chaos, Giannis Antetokounmpo, is being cast in an uncertain light, not because of his own game, but because of the quality of competition he was facing.. While sentiment on Trey Burke the national player of the year, future fringe player, was super confident even though he's diminutive for a starting PG, overly reliant on the stepback J, plus all his best crossovers in college were vs smaller college level pg's not future NBA types....

I love the draft though, so many cool stories all stop n meetup for one night, some stuff is hyper critically analyzed ad naseum while other stuff thats super important goes over everyones heads til years later. Now thats drama if you ask me! Love the draft! When Anthony Bennett actually went #1 it was like time froze for a second to me, I'll never forget that moment, dont think I'll ever see something more shocking with the #1 pick in all my days, he was FAT!

 

[funkykingston]

yep that 2013 draft is one of the ultimate crapshoot drafts too.. cuz like Utah with Gobert.. They just got lucky.. aint no way in the world were they sitting there like "oh Len is actually a 3rd stringer, Noel is a backup, Lucas Noguiera is out of the league in a few years, Gorgui Deng is a journeyman Olynyk is kind of decent so is Mason Plumlee, but, Rudy Gobert he's a max contract guy, this is a no-braner!" HEck NO.. Much more like they probably thought they were all pretty good and got lucky with the right one falling in their laps.

I remember all of us arguing about whether the Kings made a mistake in taking Tyreke Evans over Ricky Rubio. There were even a few that thought we should have taken Johnny Flynn instead. Not much chatter about that Stephen Curry kid. I wonder whatever happened to him . . .

But maybe the funniest part of the whole Gobert saga is that the Jazz took him with the 27th pick, he became an all-star, DPOY, max contract guy and then they trade him to the Wolves for Walker Kessler (the 22nd pick) who immediately gives them almost identical production PLUS 4 first rounders, Beasley, Beverly, Vanderbilt (all of whom they flipped for other assets) and a pick swap.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I remember all of us arguing about whether the Kings made a mistake in taking Tyreke Evans over Ricky Rubio. There were even a few that thought we should have taken Johnny Flynn instead. Not much chatter about that Stephen Curry kid. I wonder whatever happened to him . . .

But maybe the funniest part of the whole Gobert saga is that the Jazz took him with the 27th pick, he became an all-star, DPOY, max contract guy and then they trade him to the Wolves for Walker Kessler (the 22nd pick) who immediately gives them almost identical production PLUS 4 first rounders, Beasley, Beverly, Vanderbilt (all of whom they flipped for other assets) and a pick swap.

That Gobert trade was one of the most insane trades I've ever seen. Never seen someone get fleeced that hard. Feels like an owners trade, not a GMs.

 

[notoriousBEN3]

I like the move, even though it’s minor.

Realistically, I don’t see Len OR Noel being the “answer” behind Domas long term. But I think both are good situational matchups.

Len is big and strong and not very mobile, but he’s a great guy to have in there to play against the big fellas down low.

Noel is more mobile and agile and can guard some of the quicker/athletic big guys.

When D isn’t the problem, Lyles can come in and do his thing.

I don’t think either of Noel or Len will play every night, but when the right matchups present themselves, they can adequately (though not spectacularly) fill in the gaps now behind Domas. At least in theory….

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I like the move, even though it’s minor.

Realistically, I don’t see Len OR Noel being the “answer” behind Domas long term. But I think both are good situational matchups.

Len is big and strong and not very mobile, but he’s a great guy to have in there to play against the big fellas down low.

Noel is more mobile and agile and can guard some of the quicker/athletic big guys.

When D isn’t the problem, Lyles can come in and do his thing.

I don’t think either of Noel or Len will play every night, but when the right matchups present themselves, they can adequately (though not spectacularly) fill in the gaps now behind Domas. At least in theory….

Nice analysis.

He might not be a long term answer... but I can't help but think we would have won the GS series if we had him. If that would have happened, we would have made it to the WCF, because I KNOW we weren't losing to the Lakers. From there, anything could have happened.

So, I think he can be a critical piece.

 

[Ozymandias]

That Gobert trade was one of the most insane trades I've ever seen. Never seen someone get fleeced that hard. Feels like an owners trade, not a GMs.

Which one hahaha?

(I know you mean the exit trade to minny) The entry trade was the rights to Erick Green and cash considerations(few hundred K IIRC), quite a fleecing as well. funny how that worked out.


I think people sorta forgot what Utah paid to trade up for Gobert (I say its no coincidence the per dollar cost of buying 1st rd picks has SKYROCKETED ever since, and now all the 2nd rders are getting 4 year 8 mil contracts like lotto picks of years past anyways)

Your probably spot on with the "feels like an owners trade" comment, but also thats a fairly new owner, and he's a longttime Jazz fan IIRC so he probably watched how they mishandled Paul Millsap exit from Utah, mishandled "GOING FOR IT" when the Warriors were at the peak of their powers, and the never ending list of blunders that was Gordon Haywards exit, n with the Wembanyama sweepstakes going on the timing probably felt right to pull the rug out..

 

[Ozymandias]

Nice analysis.

He might not be a long term answer... but I can't help but think we would have won the GS series if we had him. If that would have happened, we would have made it to the WCF, because I KNOW we weren't losing to the Lakers. From there, anything could have happened.

So, I think he can be a critical piece.

This is why I really do hope that when Monte gets asked about Noel, that one of these media members has the sense to ask "Did you try to get Noel from Detroit during the trade deadline last season?"

It just stands to reason there's a story we dont know about... N I mean I was checking n posting constantly around the deadline trying to figure out what was happening with Noel, i could dig up ample recipts from this forum if I wanted. Detroit was sitting him like he was gonna get moved for sure, n then just nothing ever came of it.. But behind the scenes something had to have been happening, rumors, someone knows something, Detroit had like 6 C's n they wouldnt let us get Noel, meanwhile the Jazz sent the Lakers/Bron a care package like its their child at summer camp n we get eliminated in the first rd n the lakers make the WCF..