NBA Player of the Decade

[Superman]

It's kinda hard to compare those two guys.. Ginobili is a much better player than he gets credit for. He's known as the third banana that is the first scorer off the bench. I'm sure those are his averages because of the system he plays in. Look up his stats when Duncan/Parker are not around. The guy can ball. Before his body broke down from all the injuries, I remember the ball being in his hands instead of Parker's at end of games. Could put up 30 pts easy. And I mean easy. Lamar is a freaking head case. He has so much talent, but just doesn't seem to want to harness it. Long, athletic, good instincts, I don't see why he couldn't average a double double easy. But in his defense, It's Kobe, Pau then him. So numbers are a bit skewered. Ginobili did not sustain his period of dominance. Go back and look at some playoff games. Way above and beyond anything that Lamar has done.

It should be easy for a Kings fans to recognize that, with the way Ginobili played against us in 2006 in the playoffs. He averaged 21 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists, shot 51% from the field, 44% from outside in the playoffs that year. He averaged 20 points on 52% shooting in the fours wins during the series against us; 5.5 points on 31% shooting in the losses. He was a large part of what made that team go during their championship years. He wasn't just some role player.

 

[John Galt]

I won't vote because it would have to be for the athlete I hate most, and I just ain't gonna do it. But I could not in good conscience vote for anybody else. Dude scored eighty.

 

[Aenadin]

im not being biased here with my hatred for kobe but for my honest basketball afficionado opinion it would have to be duncan. the man has always been a class act, consistent with his numbers... scoring id give it to mr. kobe but other facets of the game, team play, leadership, defense, over all likability it would have to go with mr. Timmy D.

outside kingsfans i talk to a couple of friends basketball fans too.. each of them and hearing some people majority kobe = ballhog. and if asked bout duncan sometimes people would say he is well rounded and has excellent fundamentals. which is true.

my friends we are awarding a player who defined a DECADE. and i repeat a DECADE of basketball... now for me I wouldnt want that decade to be remembered as the decade where scoring hogging the ball is what basketball is all about, its about fundamentals of the game and timmy D. does it better than any one else. i wouldnt want the player of the decade be represented by a guy who elbows people and gets away with it.... this is not coming from a kings fan but coming from a basketball fan point of view kobe is a horrible leader....

and REALLY... seriously.. (even if not proven guilty) would you want mr. Bryant a guy accused of some felony in colorado be a player of the decade?

i dont want my grand kids looking this up and saying... wow that must have been a poor decade for basketball.

some would argue he had that 81 point game in toronto
id argue he was also the victim of a 40 point thrashing in boston and that 24 point comeback by boston in LA


so other than my rant up there...

player of the decade: DUNCAN

Team of the Decade: Sacramento kings aka greatest show on court

 

[Vlade4GM]

Let me clarify the Kwame situation. I meant he CAN be a 10/10 guy. If he got more than 20 some mins a game & played starter mins. He was doing about 8/6 play 20s mins. He was a big body, still defends bigs better than Bynum today.

Not going to comment much on the bball IQ thing because that probably is one of the most subjective things. I don't think Ginobili has a better IQ than LO, its more of LO not playing hard and keeping focus. But when he wants to? LO is great.

The closest he came to 10/10 was 10.7 and 7.8 in 32 mpg after he was moved to starting C in 05-06, the year Kobe was supposedly being a ball hog averaging 35 ppg. The next year Kwame was 8.8 and 5.8 in 28.8 mpg as a starter. Yes, he was a good positional defender, but he was an awful team defender. Kwame was an absolute dolt on both ends of the floor, his offense pretty much consisted of easy dunks that were mostly created for him, or off rebounds. He couldn't dribble, pass, or shoot, and he'd miss easy layups at times. When he came to the Lakers, he had bulked up and pretty much lost the little offensive skills he had left from the year previous. How is that Kobe's fault? If anything Kwame's scoring benefited a lot from having a creator like Kobe on the team.

I've seen a lot of Odom and he makes really bad decisions with the ball at times, especially when he had more responsibility as a ball handler/creator in the triangle pre-Gasol/Bynum's break out. Yes, he can be a very good player when he wants to be, but he wants to be about half the time. I get that he is a pass first guy, but there's a difference between being pass first and being just plain passive. A lot of the times he'd just stand on the perimeter and swing the ball around, he wouldn't move off the ball, he wouldn't post up. He just wasn't an aggressive enough scorer or facilitator, sure he has good vision and he'd get assists but Odom has never been a true facilitator. Lamar just isn't a go to shot creator like Parker and Ginobili are, and he doesn't have much value off the ball. That really has nothing to do with Kobe, that's just the way Lamar has been his whole career.

The Spurs had veterans on their team. the Lakers in 05-06 had Parker, Vujacic, Walton, Cook, an oft-injured Mihm, and a washed up George. They were young, poor defenders, streaky, and with the exception of Walton, not very bright. This is not a championship team by any stretch of the imagination, and Odom and Kwame are not a championship supporting cast that is anywhere Ginobili and Parker. In 06-07 they didn't really have much better, maybe better talent on the bench, but also more injuries.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

It should be easy for a Kings fans to recognize that, with the way Ginobili played against us in 2006 in the playoffs. He averaged 21 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists, shot 51% from the field, 44% from outside in the playoffs that year. He averaged 20 points on 52% shooting in the fours wins during the series against us; 5.5 points on 31% shooting in the losses. He was a large part of what made that team go during their championship years. He wasn't just some role player.

I sense that you are saying Duncan doesn't deserve it over kobe because his higher accomplishments was done with a better support cast.

At the end of the day, both players has 4 rings. No matter what you, me or others say, we can only go by the facts because everything else is subjective. Some will think kobe had a much easier time being part of 3 rings playing with Shaq.

The facts are that Duncan is a 3 time finals MVP and kobe 1. No matter what you or some might think about kobe actually being the main player in one of the Shaq finals MVP yr, the general public thinks shaq deserved it more at that time.

There was zero bias towards the lakers when I voted for Duncan because TD doesn't need any bias toward kobe to win. He truly has been dominate for more yrs and accomplished more as a teammate and individually. I don't know how subjective opinions on who had better supporting cast will change that.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

The closest he came to 10/10 was 10.7 and 7.8 in 32 mpg after he was moved to starting C in 05-06,.

Not sure where you got those #s. I see 10.9 pts, 7.4rebs in 30mins with the Wizards as his best yr. He never averaged more than 20 something mins with the lakers. That best yr was his third yr in the league with the wizards. I'm talking about when he was more experienced with the lakers.


As my response to superman above stated, I'm not sure how our opinions of who had better supporting cast will change the fact that Duncan accomplished more that can be measured by facts, (2 MVP, 3 Finals MVP, 10 Defensive teams etc etc). These facts are not subjective to opinions.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Not sure where you got those #s. I see 10.9 pts, 7.4rebs in 30mins with the Wizards as his best yr. He never averaged more than 20 something mins with the lakers. That best yr was his third yr in the league with the wizards. I'm talking about when he was more experienced with the lakers.


As my response to superman above stated, I'm not sure how our opinions of who had better supporting cast will change the fact that Duncan accomplished more that can be measured by facts, (2 MVP, 3 Finals MVP, 10 Defensive teams etc etc). These facts are not subjective to opinions.

I thought you meant he was a 10/10 player with the Lakers. I was posting his numbers as a starting C in 05/06 and 06/07. His best season being 11 and 7 on a crappy team isn't exactly a feather in his cap, I don't care how much you lower your standards. It really doesn't matter what you want to pro-rate his stats to with minutes because Kwame can't stay in the game that long because of his low IQ and very limited offensive skills, he's a liability with the ball in his hands. So calling him a 10/10 player when he arrived on the Lakers and that he is comparable to any of the Spurs main core players (I'm not sure you're referencing to exactly), is disengenous at best.

When Kwame arrived on the Lakers he had bulked up from his Washington physique and his few offensive skills that he had left in Washington were pretty much gone. That's the story that is Kwame Brown, came out of HS fairly skilled for a big and failed to work on his game, which pretty much declined every year. He went from a 70% ft shooter in his first 3 seasons to a 45% shooter now, that epitomizes the decline of Kwame's skills. I mean, what exactly are you trying to say anyways? That the Lakers made Kwame worse? That they should've made him better after being considered a huge bust and scrub after four seasons in the NBA? If you want to blame the Lakers for anything, blame them for actually believing he still had potential at that point.

Want to know what else is subjective? How those awards are chosen and how much value one places in them in determining a player's value. You can post all the facts you want, but ultimately the amount of value you place in those facts is subjective, so you are going to have to argue why those facts (awards) make Duncan the better player.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Want to know what else is subjective? How those awards are chosen and how much value one places in them in determining a player's value. You can post all the facts you want, but ultimately the amount of value you place in those facts is subjective, so you are going to have to argue why those facts (awards) make Duncan the better player.

This is starting to sound more like a Matrix movie to me … ie “What is real?.. How do you define real?”

Sure you can question everything you like, even the awards that Duncan got. Maybe regular season MVP awards can be subjective as it depends largely on the team’s record among other things. Some say Duncan’s second reg season MVP could’ve went to Shaq and kobe’s lone award could’ve went to Chris Paul.

But Finals MVP has always been rather clear cut. Duncan got his 3 MVPs in the finals because he was truly more deserving. When he wasn’t, the award went to Tony Parker on their 4th championship. No matter what kobe fans like to say now, Shaq deserved those 3 finals MVP he got. Check out the dominance he had, I think any true Kings fans still remember those days when even double teams from 2 of our bigs couldn’t prevent a Shaq dunk + and1. When it was kobe’s team last yr, he got it. Pau was a big contributor to the team just like kobe was to Shaq. But Pau wasn't the MVP.

Through out history, finals MVP was one of the least subjective awards out there because it was based on 1 series. Awards for a 82 game season depends on too many factors while the finals MVP is much harder to manipulate. That’s why from the start I said its between Duncan & shaq but Duncan has been better the last few yrs of the decade.

When James Worthy, a much lesser star (in terms of star power) on the lakers was given the Finals MVP over a superstar name Magic, you can see that the one who deserves it becomes the finals MVP.

So Duncan's awards, namely the 3 Finals MVP is greater than kobe because championships are a big factor in a player's resume and being the MVP of championships does mean a lot.

The truth is kobe wasn’t even the best player on his own team until half the decade had passed when Shaq was traded. Sure one can argue that Shaq’s presence held kobe back etc etc. But at some point, we can't question EVERYTHING or else nothing is real.

At the end to each his own. Sure I don’t like the lakers, which true Kings fan would likes the lakers? But as far as player of the last decade, the non bias truth to me is Duncan > Shaq > kobe.

 

[Gargamel]

That really has nothing to do with Kobe, that's just the way Lamar has been his whole career.

Bball IQ is really a subjective thing for a guy who once dribbled the ball inbounds with a teammate standing there waiting for the pass. Guy is a great thinker out on the court.

Also, don't judge his IQ by the game at ARCO that he caused LA to lose by attacking the rim and drawing an offensive foul when LA was up by 4 w/ 30 secs left.

PS: Check his eating habits and look who he married. I think his brain is sugar coated like an M&M.