NBA All Defensive team... Kobe?

[JayBird]

Didn't see this posted anywhere, but the NBA came out with the all defensive team, and for the 5th year in a row, Kobe made it. Maybe I'm just missing something, but I really don't get why he makes it every year.

To be fair, I will admit that when he wants to, and when he puts his mind to it, Kobe can be a lock-down defender. But shouldn't this honor be given to the 5 players who gut it out on the defensive end every possession?

During the first round, all the buzz in LA was that the Lakers had no answer for the speedy Russel Westbrook, and Fisher's old legs couldn't keep up with him. If you have an all-NBA defender in your backcourt, wouldn't he be the logical choice to try to stop him? No, the Lakers stuck with Fisher/Brown/Farmar, and they got burned.

Not to mention that the Thunder's best scorer, Durant, was being hassled by Artest the entire series. What was Kobe doing? Locking down Thabo friggin Sepholosha. Big deal.

If Kobe's as great a defender as he's made out to be, why isn't he guarding the best player on the court every night? Why didn't he guard Durant or Westbrook? Why isn't he guarding Deron Williams? Any average defender can look like a great defender when they're guarding the team's #3 or #4 option every night.

Kobe isn't even the best defender on his own team's starting line-up, much less top 5 in the NBA.

/End rant.

 

[est.1999]

I agree, I don't think he should be on the first team. And I also agree that when he puts his mind to it he can be a lock down defender. But that's on occasion. And to be fair to him though, he did lock up Westbrook in game 5. He took on the challenge. But that's not his game. And it doesn't really have to be. But this is a defensive honor. Regardless if the first team all D doesn't do squat on offense is not the issue. It should be handed out for defenive prowess. Not reputation.

 

[Bricklayer]

Its been ridiculous for a long time with Kobe on defense. It goes beyond just living off rep and comes down to hero worship after a while.

They do that a lot wiht great players though -- whetehr conscious or unconscious there probably has never been an All defensive Team that actually had the 5 best defenders on it. Its always the best defending stars, with an occasional Bruce Bowen championship roleplayer thrown in. Who wants a awards team full of Thabo Sefalosha and Shane Battiers? MIght speak to the overwhelming ignorance of the media voters again as well -- voting for names that they know and see all the time and not really having the depth of knowledge to id guys who are quietly stars on the other side of the ball.

 

[Superman]

So then, who gets the nod? There aren't a lot of shooting guards out there who are known for playing tight defense, thus the term "shooting guard". I don't think Kobe turns any heads on defense, but I do think he has (or maybe had) the ability to guard the best wing player on any team and give him a hard time. Not a whole lot of guards out there with that ability or reputation.

Edit: I'm looking at the list, and I guess you could throw Iguodala up there, or Thabo or Battier. I'd argue against Thabo seeing as how Durant had to switch over to Kobe in the first round and did a much better job on him (and Durant isn't anything special on defense). Battier is quietly one of the best defenders in the NBA, but he got absolutely torched in the playoffs last season against the Lakers, which I think knocked his rep down a little bit. Getting schooled on national TV for two weeks straight will do that to you. And with the Rockets not having a good year, that makes it rough for him, too. Plus, he's technically a forward. I don't know.

Another thing, for these awards and for the All Star game, they need to stop lumping guards together and forwards together. It's dumb. They need to go point guard, swing man (which encompasses all the players whose game is interchangeable, like LeBron, Kobe, Pierce, Carmelo; they all play the same position, I don't care if they are listed at guard or forward), and big man (I don't care if Duncan is listed at forward or center, same for Garnett, and Amare Stoudemire, and Chris Bosh, and Dwight Howard; they play the same position).

 

[Bricklayer]

So then, who gets the nod? There aren't a lot of shooting guards out there who are known for playing tight defense, thus the term "shooting guard". I don't think Kobe turns any heads on defense, but I do think he has (or maybe had) the ability to guard the best wing player on any team and give him a hard time. Not a whole lot of guards out there with that ability or reputation.

Sefalosha? Salmons? Dahntay Jones? Iggy? What do we call Battier anyway? Beno?

 

[SacKings7]

So then, who gets the nod? There aren't a lot of shooting guards out there who are known for playing tight defense, thus the term "shooting guard". I don't think Kobe turns any heads on defense, but I do think he has (or maybe had) the ability to guard the best wing player on any team and give him a hard time. Not a whole lot of guards out there with that ability or reputation.

I don't really think that matters though does it? That Kobe made it because he's an actual shooting guard? Doesn't it work the same as the All-Rookie Team in that you basically have the 5 best rookies, with at least 1 big, 2-3 wing players and a point guard? Because I've never saw Kobe as an outstanding defender to be honest. Yes he's definitely above average, but not good enough to make the First Team 5 years in a row. Like someone else said, he's not even the best defender on his own team.

 

[Superman]

Sefalosha? Salmons? Dahntay Jones? Iggy? What do we call Battier anyway? Beno?

Salmons is a good defender, but I wouldn't call him better than Kobe. Dahntay Jones is, but he's Dahntay Jones. I think that's obvious there. He's never going to win "All" anything. Battier is listed as a small forward, and didn't even make second team. Beno isn't a better defender than Kobe, either.

 

[mac]

Didn't see this posted anywhere, but the NBA came out with the all defensive team, and for the 5th year in a row, Kobe made it. Maybe I'm just missing something, but I really don't get why he makes it every year.

To be fair, I will admit that when he wants to, and when he puts his mind to it, Kobe can be a lock-down defender. But shouldn't this honor be given to the 5 players who gut it out on the defensive end every possession?

During the first round, all the buzz in LA was that the Lakers had no answer for the speedy Russel Westbrook, and Fisher's old legs couldn't keep up with him. If you have an all-NBA defender in your backcourt, wouldn't he be the logical choice to try to stop him? No, the Lakers stuck with Fisher/Brown/Farmar, and they got burned.

Not to mention that the Thunder's best scorer, Durant, was being hassled by Artest the entire series. What was Kobe doing? Locking down Thabo friggin Sepholosha. Big deal.

If Kobe's as great a defender as he's made out to be, why isn't he guarding the best player on the court every night? Why didn't he guard Durant or Westbrook? Why isn't he guarding Deron Williams? Any average defender can look like a great defender when they're guarding the team's #3 or #4 option every night.

Kobe isn't even the best defender on his own team's starting line-up, much less top 5 in the NBA.

/End rant.

There's where you're wrong. Kobe was put on Westbrook later in the series and kinda shut him down by a considerable amount. Go watch the games.

But he probably still doesn't "deserve" to be first team defensive.

 

[Superman]

I don't really think that matters though does it? That Kobe made it because he's an actual shooting guard? Doesn't it work the same as the All-Rookie Team in that you basically have the 5 best rookies, with at least 1 big, 2-3 wing players and a point guard? Because I've never saw Kobe as an outstanding defender to be honest. Yes he's definitely above average, but not good enough to make the First Team 5 years in a row. Like someone else said, he's not even the best defender on his own team.

Living in SoCal, I've seen a lot of Laker games. He was at one point able to shut down the best scoring option on any team. Helped having Shaq behind him, but he could simply deny anyone for a while, with little exception. Had trouble with guys like Iverson, but AI was the best scorer in the league for several seasons.

One game during the season when his shoulder was hurt and he was wearing that purple wrap thing, they played Orlando, and McGrady came out lighting everyone up. I think he had 31 through three quarters. Rick Fox started the game on him, but they switched after the third quarter. Kobe's shoulder was hurting and he wasn't really shooting, had like 8 points or so. Like I said, they switched at halftime. Kobe finished with 38, McGrady finished with 37, and the Lakers won. Kobe picked his spots, took good shots, and harassed McGrady into a horrible shooting night. All this in the second half. This was around the time that there was a debate about who was better between the two; I was on the fence, but never questioned it after that. That was probably Kobe's best game, not counting playoff games. More impressive to me than the 81 point game.

So maybe he's not going to go out there every night and just dedicate himself to playing shut down defense. Most star players don't. But unlike the majority of scoring wingmen in the NBA, he has (or had) the ability to lock down the best perimeter scorer on the other team. He never made it his trademark, and isn't known for it, but he can be an outstanding defender.

 

[SacKings7]

Living in SoCal, I've seen a lot of Laker games. He was at one point able to shut down the best scoring option on any team. Helped having Shaq behind him, but he could simply deny anyone for a while, with little exception. Had trouble with guys like Iverson, but AI was the best scorer in the league for several seasons.

One game during the season when his shoulder was hurt and he was wearing that purple wrap thing, they played Orlando, and McGrady came out lighting everyone up. I think he had 31 through three quarters. Rick Fox started the game on him, but they switched after the third quarter. Kobe's shoulder was hurting and he wasn't really shooting, had like 8 points or so. Like I said, they switched at halftime. Kobe finished with 38, McGrady finished with 37, and the Lakers won. Kobe picked his spots, took good shots, and harassed McGrady into a horrible shooting night. All this in the second half. This was around the time that there was a debate about who was better between the two; I was on the fence, but never questioned it after that. That was probably Kobe's best game, not counting playoff games. More impressive to me than the 81 point game.

So maybe he's not going to go out there every night and just dedicate himself to playing shut down defense. Most star players don't. But unlike the majority of scoring wingmen in the NBA, he has (or had) the ability to lock down the best perimeter scorer on the other team. He never made it his trademark, and isn't known for it, but he can be an outstanding defender.

I never saw that game I don't think, but yeah that is impressive. McGrady wasn't a small guy either..

But this is an All-Defensive Team, and there are players who DO go out there every night and dedicate themselves to playing shut down defense, don't you think they should be recognized? Don't get me wrong, I understand that stars get the special treatment and stuff, but since this is a Defensive team I think the people who dedicate themselves to defense every single game should be the ones to get recognized, like the Sefolosha's and the Battier's. I just don't understand why they make an All-NBA Defensive team without the 5 best defenders. It's not like an All-Star game where team records are influential in who gets named to it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Salmons is a good defender, but I wouldn't call him better than Kobe. Dahntay Jones is, but he's Dahntay Jones. I think that's obvious there. He's never going to win "All" anything. Battier is listed as a small forward, and didn't even make second team. Beno isn't a better defender than Kobe, either.

Kobe plays serious defense one night in 4. That he plays it well when he so chooses is only marginally relevant -- its not called the All Plays Good Defense When He Wants Team. There are a number of guys aroud the league who have a bigger defensive impact than Kobe Bryant game to game over the course of the season. Which you would think would or should be the criterion for an All Defense team.

Kobe is on pace to become the most decorated All Defensive Team guard in history, and he probably wouldn't even be in the Top 100 guys if you started naming all time great defenders.

 

[Gargamel]

There's where you're wrong. Kobe was put on Westbrook later in the series and kinda shut him down by a considerable amount.

Gibbons ate his shoe saying if Kobe were a good defender, he'd offer to guard Westbrook and then lock him down. He did that the very next game. Had to do it, Pete.

 

[Superman]

Kobe plays serious defense one night in 4. That he plays it well when he so chooses is only marginally relevant -- its not called the All Plays Good Defense When He Wants Team. There are a number of guys aroud the league who have a bigger defensive impact than Kobe Bryant game to game over the course of the season. Which you would think would or should be the criterion for an All Defense team.

Kobe is on pace to become the most decorated All Defensive Team guard in history, and he probably wouldn't even be in the Top 100 guys if you started naming all time great defenders.

Off the top of my head, I couldn't really think of any. Took some time and came up with a few names that are more deserving (Thabo, Iggy, Battier, I'll argue on Salmons, but not for long). He's definitely living off of reputation, which was mentioned at the outset.

My argument was mainly that Kobe is in fact a good defender, even though that's not the role he plays for his team most of the time. And there's not a huge list of stoppers at the guard position, so it's not like there's a bunch of players being slighted just so Kobe can get honored. One is enough, though, so I understand the complaint. Just wonder if it's such a big deal.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Kobe couldn't guard Tyreke. 'Nuff said.

 

[Oskor]

Kobe couldn't guard Tyreke. 'Nuff said.

Then again.... who can?

 

[vikinginferno]

Then again.... who can?

All I can think of is if Tyreke cloned himself.

 

[Bricklayer]

Kobe couldn't guard Tyreke. 'Nuff said.

He actually got him late in that first game. That is the thing with Kobe. He CAN guard just about anyone. But the point for the All Defense team is that he only occasional DOES.

 

[Superman]

It will be interesting to see what role, if any, defense lays in the impending Suns/Lakers series. The Lakers don't have a point guard who can stay in front of Nash, and they don't have a big man who can guard the pick and roll with Amare Stoudemire or stay on Frye at the three point line. Will Kobe switch over on Nash?

I thought those playoff series' from 2006 and 2007 between these two teams were really exciting, especially since the Lakers couldn't beat them. I think there's going to be lots of scoring.

 

[Chupacabra]

Thabo and Battier should have been a lock for all defensive 1st team. Kobe being on the 1st team is a travishamockery.

 

[mac]

Thabo and Battier should have been a lock for all defensive 1st team. Kobe being on the 1st team is a travishamockery.

Agreed. At this point in his career, Kobe no longer puts in the same effort into defense as he once did. He still has the ability to, and you can say that he is ONE of the top defenders in the league and I doubt you'd get much argument. But when it comes to the all-defense team where you're listing people in black and white then Kobe should no longer get the nod over some other players mentioned by other posters

 

[Kingsguy881]

He actually got him late in that first game. That is the thing with Kobe. He CAN guard just about anyone. But the point for the All Defense team is that he only occasional DOES.

I just remember when Kobe tried to get all up in Reke's grill and bloop! behind the back dribble right past Kobe and had him looking around for the guy he was supposed to be guarding.

 

[JayBird]

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but again, it's just baffling. The Celtics have 2 bona fide HOFers (Allen and Pierce) that all defensive first-team guard Kobe Bryant could guard, and instead he's guarding Rondo. The reason? "Phil Jackson wants to preserve Kobe's energy for the offensive end." Really?

I'm sorry, but if you have one of the top 5 defenders in all of the NBA on your team, and an opposing player lights you up with 7 3-pointers in the first half, wouldnt you put the defensive genious on him? I mean, I don't have 10 rings as a coach or anything, but that's an adjustment I would think about making.

Unless of course, Kobe's defensive skills are far, FAR overrated. Hmm...

 

[sloter]

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but again, it's just baffling. The Celtics have 2 bona fide HOFers (Allen and Pierce) that all defensive first-team guard Kobe Bryant could guard, and instead he's guarding Rondo. The reason? "Phil Jackson wants to preserve Kobe's energy for the offensive end." Really?

I'm sorry, but if you have one of the top 5 defenders in all of the NBA on your team, and an opposing player lights you up with 7 3-pointers in the first half, wouldnt you put the defensive genious on him? I mean, I don't have 10 rings as a coach or anything, but that's an adjustment I would think about making.

Unless of course, Kobe's defensive skills are far, FAR overrated. Hmm...

How is chasing Rondo everywhere on the floor any easier than guarding Allen or Pierce ? I think that Phil put him on Rondo cause he wanted Kobe to try and disrupt him as much as he can to stop the flow of Celtics offense.

 

[Superman]

Yeah, I was gonna say, Rondo is the most important player on the Celtics team. Having Kobe guard him isn't the easiest assignment by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Chupacabra]

To the last 2 posters, thats not what phil jackson said. If youve watched Kobe guard Rondo so far youd notice that Kobe waits for Rondo at the free throw line. Nothing disruptive about that. Rondo has a 10 foot cushion to pass the ball to whoever he pleases.

 

[Superman]

To the last 2 posters, thats not what phil jackson said. If youve watched Kobe guard Rondo so far youd notice that Kobe waits for Rondo at the free throw line. Nothing disruptive about that. Rondo has a 10 foot cushion to pass the ball to whoever he pleases.

He plays off Rondo because Rondo can't shoot. Doesn't make it an easy assignment.

And the difference between guarding Rondo and guarding Ray Allen is that Rondo is on the ball, while Ray runs through 10 screens per possession. So yes, it's smart to take Kobe -- the #1 scoring option -- off of Ray so that he's not using all his energy on the defensive end. He did spend a few minutes on him in Game 2, and he only scored three points during that stretch.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

To the last 2 posters, thats not what phil jackson said. If youve watched Kobe guard Rondo so far youd notice that Kobe waits for Rondo at the free throw line. Nothing disruptive about that. Rondo has a 10 foot cushion to pass the ball to whoever he pleases.

Yup, the only way kobe can stay with young quick guys like Rondo and Westbrook is if he sags off big like he's doing and just force the guy to run into the team defense of trees the lakers have.

I've said for a long time, kobe's defense is the most overrated part of his game. Whether he had or has the ability to defend someone doesn't mean he is actually doing it. Its a fact that he guards the 3/4/5th offensive option of the other teams. He RARELY defends the best player on the other team like the image the media tries to project.

The classic kobe image ... drop 40 while locking down the best player on the other team. How often does that really happen? Almost never. Reality is kobe's usual defensive assignments consist of guys like Matt Barnes, Sefolosha, Battier etc.

Bottomline is that kobe does not deserve to be in ANY defensive teams. He hasn't deserved to be in it for the last 4 yrs or so. Possibily have the ability to defend and occasionally defends someone well does not mean he is one of the top defenders in the league.

 

[SacKings7]

Yup, the only way kobe can stay with young quick guys like Rondo and Westbrook is if he sags off big like he's doing and just force the guy to run into the team defense of trees the lakers have.

I've said for a long time, kobe's defense is the most overrated part of his game. Whether he had or has the ability to defend someone doesn't mean he is actually doing it. Its a fact that he guards the 3/4/5th offensive option of the other teams. He RARELY defends the best player on the other team like the image the media tries to project.

The classic kobe image ... drop 40 while locking down the best player on the other team. How often does that really happen? Almost never. Reality is kobe's usual defensive assignments consist of guys like Matt Barnes, Sefolosha, Battier etc.

Bottomline is that kobe does not deserve to be in ANY defensive teams. He hasn't deserved to be in it for the last 4 yrs or so. Possibily have the ability to defend and occasionally defends someone well does not mean he is one of the top defenders in the league.

I agree that Kobe is an overrated defender and should NOT be on the All Defensive team (at least not the first team), but playing off Rondo is exactly how you're supposed to guard Rondo. I am by no means defending Kobe here, but until Rondo proves that he can make an 18 foot jumper then give him all the space he wants and take away the drive. That's being smart.

And yes it's smart for Jackson to put Kobe on Rondo if he wants to save Kobe's energy for offense. I think Artest is the better defender so he goes on Pierce, and like Superman said if Kobe was put on Allen then he'd be running through a bunch of screens every time down the court, and that'd wear anybody out pretty quickly

 

[Freakout]

Playing off of Rondo is what a GOOD defender would do. How does playing defense the right way by taking away your assignments strength equal not defending? That is some bat **** crazy logic.

It is also certainly not easy to do or the other 3 teams the Celtics faced would have played him that way.

 

[SacKings7]

Playing off of Rondo is what a GOOD defender would do. How does playing defense the right way by taking away your assignments strength equal not defending? That is some bat **** crazy logic.

It is also certainly not easy to do or the other 3 teams the Celtics faced would have played him that way.

Not sure if you're replying to my post or not. But if so, nowhere did I say that Kobe was a bad defender. I'm still referring to the thread topic, as in, I don't think Kobe deserves to be on the All-defensive team when players like Battier and even his own teammate Artest are left off it.