My wish list for the Sacramento Monarchs

TP22 · Oct 16, 2004

Well, now I understand the attitude. Mr Citrus was in Hawaii and/or navy, which is a hop, skip and a jump from ARCO. Mr. 4play was on another planet. Now, how many games did you actually get to see from your locations. And you say I lost credibility.

By the way, do you know any sites that talk about real basketball? Keep Whisenant and Brunson because, in a few years, I'll be right. Just wait and see.

Monty'sBiggestFan · Oct 16, 2004

Still JD · Oct 16, 2004

TP22 said:

I'm not sure this is even worth it, but............

Being able to see the games lives at ARCO is certainly an advantage, but those that either watch on TV or listen on the radio have opinions that are no less valid than those of us who are fortunate enough to attend home games.

If you know of a site that discusses Monarchs basketball in a more thorough, professional and fun way that this forum does, please let us all know. There are occasional (especially in the off-season) detours into silliness, but that is part of the personalities involved.

This not about who is right and who is wrong. We all share our opinions and we don't always agree. I believe we are all here because we love and support this team and want them to succeed. We all bring our own unique observations and interpretations to this discussion. It is not up to any of us whether Whisenant, Brunson, or anyone else stays or goes. I'd rather be wrong about every opinion I give and see this team win it all, than have an attitude of being able to say I was right down the line when they lose.

6th · Oct 16, 2004

Still JD said:

I'm not sure this is even worth it, but............

Being able to see the games lives at ARCO is certainly an advantage, but those that either watch on TV or listen on the radio have opinions that are no less valid than those of us who are fortunate enough to attend home games.

If you know of a site that discusses Monarchs basketball in a more thorough, professional and fun way that this forum does, please let us all know. There are occasional (especially in the off-season) detours into silliness, but that is part of the personalities involved.

This not about who is right and who is wrong. We all share our opinions and we don't always agree. I believe we are all here because we love and support this team and want them to succeed. We all bring our own unique observations and interpretations to this discussion. It is not up to any of us whether Whisenant, Brunson, or anyone else stays or goes. I'd rather be wrong about every opinion I give and see this team win it all, than have an attitude of being able to say I was right down the line when they lose.

Perfect........absolutely perfect. You are top notch, JD!!!!

Also, to comment on this line of your response, "There are occasional (especially in the off-season) detours into silliness, but that is part of the personalities involved."...............all I can say is......moi?

slugking50 · Oct 16, 2004

6th said:

Ditto JD! Nice!

and 6th, Yes oyour the silly one. Us other posters never would resort to silliness whatsoever....
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Well I tried to BS

slugking50 · Oct 16, 2004

Monty'sBiggestFan said:

lol. You're not he only one who was confused.

6th · Oct 16, 2004

slugking50 said:

Agreed, slug.

All I can say is that if someone's opinion totally confuses someone like MBF (whose opinion on women's basketball I regard highly), then I question that opinion myself. Does that mean I cannot think for myself? Absolutely not! But I certainly tend to agree with MBF over someone who comes along with (what I consider) wild ideas and then knocks those of us who I know to have knowledge of the subject of the Sacramento Monarchs.

ReinadelosReys · Oct 16, 2004

Still JD said:

Just to add on to that:

This season I saw almost every home game live at Arco but I know for a fact that I don't know half of what most of these folks know about the M's and the WNBA in general. What's next, whoever has more Monarchs memorabilia is a better fan?

Monty'sBiggestFan · Oct 16, 2004

Thanks 6th...and JD, thanks for for breaking it down.

A statement that I'm sure will shock the world...I have opinions and I'm not afraid to use them. I don't express them hoping to have the world agree with me, I express them to engage in the discussion. I also have no problem being "wrong" and no need to be "proven right". I like the interchange here precisely because the board does not fall lockstep behind a party line or single mindview.

I don't think Slim said "wait and I'll be proven right" he I believe is already of the opinion that she is neither lazy or was not a wasted pick. So technically, if you want to put it into "right or wrong" parlance, he (as do I) already believes he is "right" on Brunson. We got a player who helped us in the present, and who will continue to help us in the future and she will be by the prime of her career one of the most dominant defensive players in this league. TP happens to think she's a bust now and may if I extend the argument, be out of the league by the time she reaches her prime if Whisenant heads this team next year. I quite honestly thought the Brunson debate portion of this thread had ended.

I'm not losing any sleep over whether TP ever will concede that Brunson isn't lazy. But I was confused about why TP went after Slim for not being at ARCO and what it is about the viewpoint he expresses that leads one to believe that he speaks as someone who NEVER saw Brunson(or the Monarchs for that matter) play this year. I am thoroughly confused why after the discussion about where Slim is right now started, there's a post lambasting his opinion.

As far as discussions go, the WNBA discussion board on ESPN's website and various Yahoo groups are probably places you can go and have adequate discussions about the Monarchs or the league.

Mr. S£im Citrus · Oct 16, 2004

Monty'sBiggestFan said:

This is what's otherwise known as having poor debating skills; TP22 doesn't have an actual argument, or any evidence to support the preposterous belief that Brunson is lazy, so instead he/she decided to make some lame comment about my not seeing any games at ARCO, as if that somehow diminishes my basketball acumen. No fewer than five people have refuted his/her opinion about Brunson and provided explanations why they feel that way, and instead of continuing the debate or attempting to explain his/her point of view, TP22 has done the semantic equivalent of plugging their ears and yelling "la-la-la, I can't hear you!"

Quite frankly, I wasn't going to dignify this idiocy with a response, so I thank you all for coming to my "defense," as it were...

TP22 · Oct 17, 2004

First of all, it was a joke about you guys not being close to ARCO, but that's okay if you want to attack. I know what I know because I've seen it and I've heard it from people inside and outside the organization. Of course, you won't believe me because when I did bring facts, you all just ignored them. Most of you had nothing to refute when I stated Whisenant with his 'one size fits all' defense killed us in the play-offs. He does not make adjustments and the Monarchs got beaten by better coaches who did make the necessary adjustments to win. When Whisenant didn't call any time-outs in Seattle's 20-0 run, I refuted the comment that the players ignored him. I was right about the fact that a coach can call a time-out, but nobody wanted to tell me I was correct. Nothing was said when I said Maura McHugh did the same thing with the Monarchs as Whisenant has done. You want facts but you ignore them when I'm correct. The Monarchs won't ever win a championship with Whisenant as coach, that is my bottomline.

As for Brunson, until she gets her head screwed on straight, she won't be the player you all think she will be. Right now, she won't be the next Yo because she doesn't have the desire to do the work. She should have been better than what she was at the end of the year. So where are the facts? Did she get better from the beginning of the year to the play-offs? Did her shot get any better? She got some rebounds but it is a lot easier to get rebounds when your teammate has two people boxing her out and holding her. A lot of you were okay with her performance and that's your choice. I hope a lot of GMs agree with you and are willing to trade an established outside shooter for Brunson.

So Mr Citrus - where are your debating skills? Or perhaps you can't read. I've given my reasons why I think she is lazy. Now I'm sure all your little buddies will run to your aid and defend you because somehow this will all come back as an attack. Be it as it may. But if you have seen as many games as I have, in person, at ARCO, in Seattle, in LA, in Phoenix, in Houston, in SLC (before they moved), you would know it is not the same as watching it on television. Television only lets you see what it wants you to see.
Did you see Seattle not shake the hands of the Monarchs after they won the play-offs? You would have if you were there.

6th · Oct 17, 2004

TP22, maybe no one wants to listen to you because you come here, an unknown, and not only say unpopular things, but attack those of us who disagree with you.

Now, I will readily admit that some of what you have said has merit, but with your tone, I, for one, could care less at what you have to say. If you had any sense at all you would not show up on an internet board and attack 2 of the most long time respected members of this site...members who probably have more basketball knowledge in their pinky than you have in that brain of yours.

If you were a regular reader and contributor at KingsFans.com, you would know that there is a reason that I have the title of "Goodwill Ambassador". But when people of your ilk show up here, I just don't feel a lot of goodwill. My prediction is that you will not be here long. That is a shame because you obviously have some knowledge of the game of basketball. It would help if you knew how to impart that knowledge to others without being rude, superior, and belittling of other's views.

Mr. S£im Citrus · Oct 17, 2004

TP22 said:

Surely you can't be serious; Brunson works harder than anyone on the team except for Griffith. She certainly does a better job of moving without the basketball, setting screens, and boxing out than any other player off the bench, and I'd argue that she does a better job of it than Walker or Smith, as well. She is consistently at least the second or third-hardest worker of either team on the court.

TP22 said:

Brunson's stats through the 1st 17 games: 3.4 ppg, 3.06 rpg, .356 FG%, 0.94 TO
Brunson's stats through the 2nd 17 games: 5.8 ppg, 4.12 rpg, .469 FG%, 0.82 TO

Okay, so she had a slow start, but judging by the fact that we were as many as four games under .500, and were still three games under .500 past the mid-way point in the season, I think it's fair to say that everybody else had a slow start, too.

So, where are the facts? Brunson's performance during the second half was better across the board from her performance in the first half. "These are the facts of the case, and they are undisputed."

TP22 said:

Are you sure you aren't talking about Anderson? Because Brunson really didn't spend all that much time on the court at the same time as Griffith, and there's no one else on the team who commanded a double-team during the regular season.

TP22 said:

If we trade any players to get a shooter, it should be Walker, Anderson and/or Frett.

TP22 said:

:: points to stats provided above ::

"These are the facts of the case, and they are undisputed."

Keep practicing...
Slim

6th · Oct 17, 2004

Thank you, Mr. Slim, for your excellent response (with facts). I, on the other hand, responded with the same unnecessary attacks as TP. My apologies to the rest of the members.

TP22 · Oct 17, 2004

Okay, Mr Citrus - I'll hand props about Brunson because at least I know, you do look up facts. Brunson had a few good games in September when she was scoring close to double digits and she was looking good. Then those points all but disappeared by the end of the season. Why?

Brunson rotated in for Smith most of the time, followed by either Anderson (oh, by the way, she's the cuter and nicer one. I know the difference) when Whisenant wanted to throw her a few minutes or Smith for Griffith. Maiga would substitute for Walker. This wasn't in cement, but more like the rule. So Brunson did share the court with Griffith.

By the way, Frett wasn't with the team in 2004. Never signed her, Charlotte picked her up, waived her and then was picked up by NY.

By the way, the air around this forum is holier than thou. You look down on people who don't have the same opinion as you. As 6th said, '...you come here, an unknown and not only say unpopular things, but attack those of us who disagree with you.' IMO, Mr Citrus threw the first stone in post #5. I can see why you don't have a whole lot of people on this forum. Have the people with different opinions been chased away? Some of you need to look in the mirror, along with Whisenant, and ask yourselves, what part of this is am I accountable?

RoyalDiva · Oct 17, 2004

That is enough with the personal attacks against each other.

Please keep it to basketball and polite debate.

Mr. S£im Citrus · Oct 17, 2004

TP22 said:

Well, this is just a hunch, but it could be because she's something like the eighth scoring option on offense (Behind Griffith, Smith, Lawson, Walker, Bolton, Campbell and Maïga); I'll grant you that her scoring tapered off towards the end, but it isn't like she's asked to shoot. She's asked to rebound and defend, which she does exceptionally well.

TP22 said:

I didn't say that she was never on the court with Griffith, I said that she didn't spend much time on the court with Griffith, which is essentially true. And I still think that you sell Brunson woefully short with respect to her effort on the boards.

TP22 said:

I stand corrected. I was probably thinking of Lady.

TP22 said:

I don't look down on anybody. And I doubt that any of the ladies here do, either. Do you have some sort of persecution complex or something.

TP22 said:

Mr. S£im Citrus said:

That was a "stone?" Methinks you need to invest in a thicker skin; that was neither a direct nor an indirect personal attack. It was simply a commentary on a similarity that I found between your post and the multitude of "Blame Adelman" posts that have polluted the Kings forum over the past three years or so. You said yourself that you're "not much of a Kings fan," which means that you probably didn't know where I was coming from, so where do you get off on making inferences about what I meant without having any sense of the context in which I said it?

TP22 said:

We don't? KingsFans is the most popular Kings message board on the entire internet, and this Monarchs forum is probably one of the five most active WNBA forums on the 'net, at least.

TP22 · Oct 18, 2004

It's unfortunate that this thread turned into a Brunson debate because it should have been about Whisenant.

I stand by what I said about this forum. The KingsFans maybe very popular among the Kings Fans but there aren't very many Monarchs contributors. If the Monarchs forum is the fifth most active then there should be a concern about the rest of the league.

Yes, I felt I was attacked first, thin skin or not, your attack was singular, my statements were made in general and it was a honest question when I asked, 'I don't get this 'I'm okay with Whisenant' attitude.

cometsluv4play · Oct 18, 2004

cometsluv4play said:

my apoligies to TP22 if i am one whom he/she felt dis with my different opinion. it was not intended to offend. i attempted to see it both ways.

cometsluv4play · Oct 18, 2004

cometsluv4play said:

this was probably the offending remark made by me, and for this i apoligize. i really did not intend for it to be read that way, but reading back now i can see how it could be mis-interpeted. my intended point i was attempting to make was that i have no respect for anything that comes out of Ann Myers mouth and i respectfully disagree with the opinion that Brunson was lazy and had no shot. i guess i felt that i had tried to see it both ways enough ahead of time and with the more specific opinion, i gave a more specific thumbs down to an opinion i could not agree with at all i.e. see both sides. i was merely expressing my complete disagreement with the aforementioned opinion. no offence intended, but i can see how it might have come across after re-reading it, so i apoligize if it in fact did so.

cluv

Monty'sBiggestFan · Oct 18, 2004

Whisenant or Brunson, where does it matter? You didn't hold a viewpoint many people agreed with. If you brought the Whiz subject up again, I would post the same exact thing I posted at the start of this thread and bring Brunson into it like I did earlier.

I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion which differed from TP. I'm not going to apologize for responding to TP's calling those of us out who did not agree that Whiz should be fired. I'm not going to apologize for not laying down and letting TP insinuate that anybody who did not agree with the point of view that Whiz destroyed this team and this team's chances to win a championship is essentially an loyalist automaton.

This should be a place where you can agree or disagree. Period. This should be a place where you can have differing points of views expressed. Period. I am have little patience with someone who goes out of their way to say if people don't agree with them - the board shuts off points of view. It doesn't. It just means you are the only one who holds that view. Either carry your argument out, or don't.

Nobody ran people off TP, you should know that. Unless you are masquerading as a poster from days of ol' you've been here before. If you aren't the old TP22, then this is the board as it is. If it doesn't meet your standards, you are welcome to go somewhere you feel more accepted or agreed with because I don't think the tenor of the board, or the KingsFans forum as a whole will change. It is what it is. The ESPN site has a WNBA board, yahoo has several groups where you can go to discuss the Monarchs and/or the league. If you find them more welcoming, more power to you.

theBard · Oct 27, 2004

Hey Everyone. I have been patiently waiting for my account to be "verified" so I could weigh in on this issue.

I have friends who are Sacramento Monarch players. I know many who work in other areas for the Maloofs (marketing, security, equiptment managing, etc...). I socialize off the court with players after watching the games (in person) at many out of state locations.
This is my two cents: Whisenant is NOT a good women's basketball coach. He "closed" practices when it became evident that his choice to sit Guilliana was horrible. The second team routinely beat the first team in practice, in large part due to Guilliana's effortless three-point shot. His ego prevented him from admitting as much, so he closed practices to prevent "outsiders" from knowing it.
Whisenant "brow-beat" our perimeter shooters. He had them afraid to "pull the trigger". Any shooter who has it in the back of their mind that if they take a shot and miss will be yanked from the game develops a noticable "hitch" in their shot. If you have any games on film, review them. Notice how many of our perimeter shooters "hitch".
Whisenant publicly denounced our perimeter shooters, instead of admitting that he himself does not know how to motivate female athletes. Pay attention to how our shooters did in the beginning to the end of the season.
Whisenant does not know how to properly substitute. He takes a person who is totally red-hot and sits them on the bench for long stretches, then puts them back in after they have totally cooled off. Sorry, these ladies are professionals, and they aren't tired. They have more gas in the tank then Whisenant gives them credit for.
Whisenant NEVER taught them any offensive scheme. Hello, this is the WNBA, we NEED an offense!
Whisenant NEVER made defensive adjustments. EVER. Every team in the league knew this. This is not men's basketball, this is women's and we have some very talented perimeter shooters. This defense left us vulnerable to the skip-pass, outside shot, by design.
Whisenant does not utilize his time-outs to stop opposing team's scoring runs. How basic coaching is that? Just ask any Jr. High coach and they will tell you!
Whisenant did not treat these ladies equally. He would allow some of the players to get away with walking out of practice, fist-fighting on the bus, etc and others he would make pay a fine if the player was simply a few minutes late to practice due to traffic! How does this build a "cohesive unit"? It doesn't, it only builds resentment.
We got to the Western Conference Finals not because of Whisenant, but because we have a talented team with a lot of experience, and heart. Whisenant is a cancer for this team, and he needs to be cut out! We need a real coach, these ladies have worked hard enough, long enough, and they deserve it!
The fans have waited long enough, paid enough money into this organization, and deserve a banner to hang.
Fire Whisenant, Hire a real coach!
That is my two cents worth.
the Bard

Luv13fan · Nov 4, 2004

I am inclined to agree with the Bard.
I think that if Whiz wants to continue coaching he should volunteer his time to a local Program or work some girls basketball camps. I believe his perspective would be expanded.
I have also seen in person his bias. I don't know if it is intentional or an overesight but I will give him the benefit.
I think it was wrong for Whiz to publically criticize the outside shooting, when he really did very little to help it.
I was very critical if Ticha, but The Bard confirmed something that I had suspetions about. So I am gonna back off of her for a moment.
At the end of the day I think we all want this team to improve and maximize its potential.
Even with the Bickering I like the insight I get from this site.

My wish list for the Sacramento Monarchs

Prospect

Starter

G-League

Homer Fan Since 1985

All-Star

All-Star

Homer Fan Since 1985

Starter

Starter

Doryphore of KingsFans.com

Prospect

Homer Fan Since 1985

Doryphore of KingsFans.com

Homer Fan Since 1985

Prospect

Starter

Doryphore of KingsFans.com

Prospect

G-League

G-League

Starter

theBard

Guest

Bench