My rebuild Attempt (long)

[ovrush]

So, I posted a few of my ideas before that might be plausible, here is my final full offseason rebuild plan (figured I’d take a shot at one)
Trade #1
Sacramento Trades
Mike Bibby
Kevin Martin
Memphis Trades
Damon Stoudemire
Stromile Swift
Rudy Gay
Hakim Warrick
Pick#4

Why Sacramento does it: I’m probably going to take flak for including Kmart in a trade, but I think a 20ppg guy whose primary talent is only scoring from the wing is fairly replaceable. Added to which we have Garcia behind him who has shown signs of development, Kmart is in a contract year and will require big money next offseason, and at the moment his value is extremely high. Aside from defending that element, the Kings get the #4 which is a probable franchise guy, Stromile Swift who is an athletic big who can play 4/5 off the bench, Rudy Gay who is a tremendous talent, and Hakim Warrick who showed he can play in the NBA last season. This may be more than Memphis is willing to give up and you might have to eat cardinal’s contract instead of Swift or Stoudemire.

Why Memphis does it: They suddenly are staring at a starting lineup that features Gasol, Miller, Bibby, and Martin. Frankly I think that’s a lineup that makes the playoffs next year in the tough tough West. For a team looking to change ownership and appease their franchise player this is a move that could help both. Making the playoffs could definitely help the value of the team in a possible sale. You might have to sweeten this deal for Memphis by taking on the Cardinal contract or somehow taking less I donno.

(this trade is what I’d like the most feedback on… would Memphis do this sort of trade? Would the Kings have to include more/eat worse contracts? Am I just being a homer thinking this is plausible?)

Trade #2
Sacramento Trades
Ron Artest
SAR
Miami Trades
Jason Williams
Michael Doelac
Dorrell Wright
Pick #20

Why Sacramento Does it: You get rid of Artest, and you get rid of SAR contract. You pick up a talented young guy, two enders and a pick

Why Miami does it: Fills a giant hole at the 3 and gives you a low post scorer to bring in when Shaq sits down.

Trade #3
Sacramento Trades
Brad Miller
Houston Trades
Juwan Howard
Bob Sura
Pick #26

Why Sacramento does it: While I do think Miller will have a bounce back year and this is probly selling low which im not a fan of… this plan is a full rebuild and Miller really isn’t the type of player you want on a team that’s rebuilding more on a win now team. The Kings get an ender, a shorter contract and a pick to accelerate the rebuild

Why Houston does it. They get a high post big to pair with their low post big (Yao) and their slasher/scorer (TMac). Miller starts at the 4 and instantly becomes the best passer on the team.

Draft
Pick #4: Al Horford – I think he’ll still be there. Atlanta doesn’t need a 4 and will either look to take Yi and make him a big 3 or reach for Conley. Horford recently measured at 6’10” and is a low post scorer and tough interior defender to build a franchise around.
Picks 10,20,26 – Package these picks along with cash and anything else it takes to move up a few slots to get Joakim Noah. Sure he’s a little undersized to be a center… but he’s still 6’11. While he may not be a prototypical center he’s a guy who is a winner and will battle hard every play of every game. He’s also the perfect compliment type player to Horford, who will be in the low post, and Gay, who is a slasher/scorer due to his superior passing for a big man. Additionally with the exceptions of Yao, and Oden there aren’t really many centers in the west you have to be concerned about scoring a ton of points on you.

Final product

PG: Williams/Stoudemire
SG: Garcia/Douby/Sura
SF: Gay/Salmons/Wright
PF: Horford/Doleac/Howard/Kenny Thomas
C: Noah/Swift

(too many players, I’d buy out Kenny Thomas to keep him away from developing kids and sit Doleac or Sura on the IR for the year)

This plan essentially rebuilds the frontcourt for the next 5-10 years in one offseason. The team you wind up with is built around the low post talents of Horford and the passing and athleticism of everyone else. Strangely Williams and Stoudemire would be the perfect type of point guards to run this team a few years ago but I fear the tread is too thin for them to run with these kids now. Long term, Williams, Doleac, and Sura come off the books after next year giving some cap relief. The year after that Howard and Stoudemire do. You’d probly have to go out and find a point guard to drive this car, but the talent is there.

 

[beb0p]

Those are very good trades... for us. Memphis is not going to trade that #4 pick for Bibby + Martin. No way in hell. Besdies, they feel like they already have a comparable player to K-Mart in Terence Kinsey. Plus, Rudy Gay is going to be a stud. This is a bad trade for the Grizz.

While Miami may want Artest, they won't give up both Wright and the #20 for him. And lastly, the Rockets needs an athletic big man. They already have their own version of Brad Miller in Juwan Howard.

 

[nbrans]

^Ah yes. Noted 20 ppg scorer Tarence Kinsey.

I'm not much inspired by a trade where we give up Bibby and Martin AND take on the some of Grizzlies crap salaries in return. If we're going to trade Martin I think it has to be more of a sure thing than this. It's uncertain whether Gay and the #4 will become the players Martin and Bibby are RIGHT NOW, let alone better, and let alone so good it's worth taking on some of their bad contracts.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well, we won't know about the #4 until he actually gets drafted, but I'd take Gay over Martin right now.

 

[nbrans]

Well, we won't know about the #4 until he actually gets drafted, but I'd take Gay over Martin right now.

Why in the world would you take Gay over Martin? In the hopes that he could someday be as good as..... Martin? It's not like he does anything Martin doesn't.

 

[BMiller52]

Why in the world would you take Gay over Martin? In the hopes that he could someday be as good as..... Martin? It's not like he does anything Martin doesn't.

Exactly... Gay hasn't done anything yet. He's a better jumper than Martin, Martin's quicker though so athletically they're about even IMO. Martin's a better shooter and overall scorer. He's a better player right now. Gay honestly hasn't impressed me much.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Nothing Martin does? You mean, besides block shots, right? I wonder if perhaps you put too much weight on that letdown he had at the end of the season; Gay is going to be a five-tool player. Martin, on the other hand, still hasn't demonstrated that he's going to be anything other than a shooter.

What Gay showed me last year was that he has the skills to be a Luol Deng-type player. Are you asking me whether I'd take that over Martin? You bet your ***.

 

[nbrans]

Nothing Martin does? You mean, besides block shots, right? I wonder if perhaps you put too much weight on that letdown he had at the end of the season; Gay is going to be a five-tool player. Martin, on the other hand, still hasn't demonstrated that he's going to be anything other than a shooter.

What Gay showed me last year was that he has the skills to be a Luol Deng-type player. Are you asking me whether I'd take that over Martin? You bet your ***.

What five tools are we talking about here? Because Gay is a bad defender, not much of a passer, not much of a shooter, struggles to create his own shot.. he's shown pretty much nothing. Great, a blocked shot a game from your small forward. Whoop tee doo, that's ONE possession per game. It's not like people are thinking twice about going ot the basket because Rudy freaking Gay is there.

And if you think Gay can improve so drastically that he'll be better than Martin, what makes you think Martin can't improve as well?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I think that Gay is further from his potential than Martin is. Martin is not going to become Ray Allen: he's not going to become a great passer, and he's not going to become a great rebounder. I think that Martin's potential maxes out at Rip Hamilton, which is a good player to have, but not somebody that you can build a team around.

Gay, as I said before, can be as good as Luol Deng, whom I might actually build a team around. Furthermore, you're comparing Martin in his second year of getting significant time against Gay in his first, which I don't think is fair. Gay is statistically as good or better than Martin in his first season of significant time, virtually across the board (as good or better in every category except FG% and FT%).

And, as far as asking me why I don't think that a twenty-four year-old has as much room to improve as a twenty year-old? Do I have to spell it out?

 

[nbrans]

I think that Gay is further from his potential than Martin is. Martin is not going to become Ray Allen: he's not going to become a great passer, and he's not going to become a great rebounder. I think that Martin's potential maxes out at Rip Hamilton, which is a good player to have, but not somebody that you can build a team around.

Gay, as I said before, can be as good as Luol Deng, whom I might actually build a team around. Furthermore, you're comparing Martin in his second year of getting significant time against Gay in his first, which I don't think is fair. Gay is statistically as good or better than Martin in his first season of significant time, virtually across the board (as good or better in every category except FG% and FT%).

And, as far as asking me why I don't think that a twenty-four year-old has as much room to improve as a twenty year-old? Do I have to spell it out?

Gay COULD be as good as Luol Deng, but to me there's no comparison. Deng runs all over the court, plays ridiculously hard, and never stops working. Deng looks Rudy Gay look like he's stuck in quicksand half the time.

Talent has never been the issue with Gay, just desire and motor. Sure, Gay's 20, he might get better. But I see nothing to suggest that he's ever going to be able to do anything much better than Martin, except for rebounding, and let's be honest, we're talking about a wing here, not a big.

It's just pointless to give up someone like Martin for someone like Gay. I can maybe see the wisdom in giving up Martin for a future star of a point guard or a big man, but not another wing.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It's just pointless to give up someone like Martin for someone like Gay. I can maybe see the wisdom in giving up Martin for a future star of a point guard or a big man, but not another wing.

Well, I guess that's the problem... because *I* think that Gay is going to be a star, and I'm not sold on Martin. I think that Martin is going to be a great Robin, but I think that Gay is going to be Batman.

 

[kingsfan101]

Well, I guess that's the problem... because *I* think that Gay is going to be a star, and I'm not sold on Martin. I think that Martin is going to be a great Robin, but I think that Gay is going to be Batman.

I think that's the operative part. We are not exchanging Martin for an established star, but for a potential one. In our position, when we want to rebuild, it is not a very good idea to trade away one established young player for potential. Getting potential (in terms of young players or draft picks) is a good idea if we can offload our veterans to some teams that already have plenty of young players, or are looking to make deep postseason runs.

Such a trade would make sense only if the potential difference is huge (even then it's a big risk) and obvious. The other team might not be interested in such a case.

 

[Venom]

Gay is the next Rashard Lewis; phenomenal skillset but mediocre production except in contract years. I'm not interested.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Wow, Rashard Lewis has been playing for a contract for the past three years in a row? He needs to fire his agent, like, today!

Let's suppose that Rashard Lewis really is the peak of his potential, and Richard Hamilton is the peak for Martin, as I believe it is... I don't know about anybody else, but I'd take Lewis over Hamilton.

 

[Entity]

to build around yes. But I don't want Martin or Gay or Rashard Lewis to build around. All 3 are Robins to me if that. Martin would be great along side Lebron. Gay would be good along side Kobe. Rashard would be nice in Houston. We need somebody top notch not these 2nd fiddles keep Martin and get his Batman don't rebuild to fit Martin make Martin fit your rebuild.

 

[Venom]

Wow, Rashard Lewis has been playing for a contract for the past three years in a row? He needs to fire his agent, like, today!

Let's suppose that Rashard Lewis really is the peak of his potential, and Richard Hamilton is the peak for Martin, as I believe it is... I don't know about anybody else, but I'd take Lewis over Hamilton.

I picked Rashard Lewis for a reason. Did you watch that UConn team? Rudy Gay is a chump who never delivered in big games, which reminds me of Lewis in the playoffs. Furthermore, Gay showed no appreciable development in his two years at UConn.

 

[ovrush]

Frankly, I didn't want to include Martin but I do think his value at the moment is a bit higher than Gay's although Gay's long term potential may be higher. That being said my main questions...do you think:

1. Bibby Gay
KMart > Stoudemire
Warrick
Swift
#4

2. Would Memphis do this deal?


3. Is there any way Memphis trades the #4 pick without the Kings including Martin if we don't include our #10 in the deal?

My answer to one is Id rather get the right hand side as the Kings.

As the Grizzlies I think it's questionable depending on the directin the franchise wants to take and what they do with Gasol.

The answer to #3... I don't think we can land the #4 (which is the spot I think you have to get to to nab Hordord) without either including our #10 pick or KMart. Frankly I think its mostly wishful thinking we'd even get Gay back in such a deal. It might take Bibby and KMart just to land the pick and enders/trash if we want to keep our #10. Frankly I really like the idea of having two of the top ten picks in this draft since it is so deep and you could wind up with two longterm cornerstones.

 

[ovrush]

Also - I'd definitely take Rashard Lewis on a team with a viable low post threat like Horford. Not really a bad statement at all. I don't think it's fair saying Gay is a terrible passer as every scounting report I've read on him lists him as an above average to strong passer.

 

[beb0p]

^Ah yes. Noted 20 ppg scorer Tarence Kinsey.

Com'on now nbrans, I thought you of all people know better than to judge a player too soon.

Btw, Kinsey averaged 18.9 pts over the last 13 games of the season. K-Mart's average during that same span is 18.5 pts (and throwing out the two games where he was injured).

Now, now. I'm not saying Kinsey is as good as K-Mart.

 

[ovrush]

Com'on now nbrans, I thought you of all people know better than to judge a player too soon.

Btw, Kinsey averaged 18.9 pts over the last 13 games of the season. K-Mart's average during that same span is 18.5 pts (and throwing out the two games where he was injured).

Now, now. I'm not saying Kinsey is as good as K-Mart.

Leon Wood looked great for the Kings for a few games as well... Didn't make him a 20 ppg legitimate NBA player, just a guy getting a lot of shots/time on a bad team.

 

[beb0p]

Leon Wood looked great for the Kings for a few games as well... Didn't make him a 20 ppg legitimate NBA player, just a guy getting a lot of shots/time on a bad team.

Fine. Don't argue with me over what the Memphis org thinks. Tell that to Mempish and their fans.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I would take Martins brains, shot selection and efficiency over Gay, Martin didn't play his rookie year much so really this is his second year with minutes, he's made drastic improvements in certain areas of his game, whose too say he cant improve other areas, IMO Martin has as much potential as Gay, Martin can be a GREAT player.