MUST READ: Jones spills beans about SAR departure
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
I think it's a fair question...and a fair answer.
We're all just screen names here. If someone claims to have a source or some kind of insider knowledge, there's no way to know if they're telling the truth or (as has happened in the past) they're just blowing smoke for whatever reason. That's why you often see people demanding to know who the source is so they can decide whether or not to believe the information.
But ... that's the tricky thing about sources - they say things privately because, for the most part, they cannot say them publicly without risking their jobs, or whatever it is that gives them access to certain information. Sometimes, as much as we would like to share something, it's better off to say nothing because there's no way you can prove your information is solid without revealing too much about whomever you heard it from.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
i hate Pete so much 
And this makes Vivek look bad too. Hiring this hack and then allowing him to do all of this shady crap without pulling the plug much sooner.
He would have been gone after the draft beef with Shareef in a competent organization...
And this makes Vivek look bad too. Hiring this hack and then allowing him to do all of this shady crap without pulling the plug much sooner.
He would have been gone after the draft beef with Shareef in a competent organization...
Iced Espresso
Starter
Yeah talking with some guys now.
Like how the FO was offended that Vlade could possibly see them in their true colors, they could not hide their intent nor bs him from the start because they did not know he had authority on day 1.
How dare Vivek.
Lots of things surfacing today to throw the organization/owner under the bus, but possibly protect someone who may have just left us recently.
Like how the FO was offended that Vlade could possibly see them in their true colors, they could not hide their intent nor bs him from the start because they did not know he had authority on day 1.
How dare Vivek.
Lots of things surfacing today to throw the organization/owner under the bus, but possibly protect someone who may have just left us recently.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Yes, there's no magic involved to talent evaluation - Merlin need not apply. No, being a basketball lifer does not confer a good ability to evaluate talent. Talent evaluation is like any other talent: There are some people much more gifted at it than others. Yes, Vlade is going to have the knack or not to evaluate talent; that ability may not be magical, but it is real. Does he have the knack? We don't know, do we. But the fact that he is reportedly looking for an excellent talent evaluator with the track record to back it up implies that he's not confident in his ability to take on that role. Let's not make this mistake: Just because everybody thinks that he or she is an excellent talent evaluator, doesn't mean that everybody actually is.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
You don't find things out/inquire/get to the bottom of things by keeping your role in the organization a mystery. Being unclear isn't the prerequisite for getting to the bottom of things.
macadocious
Starter
Let's just put it this way, I have been posting here for well over a decade. I have never made any strong claims about anything like this before, I am just saying that J. Jones information is correct.
Iced Espresso
Starter
And how would you describe Pete's talent as a GM?
Kingster
Hall of Famer
TERRIBLE.
Also, I find it interesting that Vivek talks in this general fashion about the cronyism in the NBA, as if every organization has it, as if his organization is part of this general phenomena rather than the exception. This is a CYA self aggrandizing comment as far as I am concerned. He hired a suck-up who of course wants others to suck-up to him. Malone and Shareef didn't; they are gone because they didn't want to suck up. Vivek is ultimately responsible for his suck-up hire, as he is ultimately responsible for every hire in his org.
I think you're right.
Iced Espresso
Starter
ok if things were going sour with Pete, how should Vivek handle that from this moment on?
Hadlowe
Starter
Comment deleted as a non-sequitur. Sorry, meant to reply to the other thread.
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I don't see it that way. Vlade has experience OUTSIDE of the NBA. He's received accolades as a unifier on and off the court, and out of the league. He has very strong ties to the community, something our owner currently lacks.
Yes, he's a n00b in terms of being an NBA GM, but I think he has experience where we need it most - creating a single voice. This is actually the kind of risky move Vivek should have made after hiring Malone. This has much more of an upside.
Nobody ever saw PDA as much more than a self-serving toad, so the fact that Vivek is bringing in an alpha dog to straighten the ship is fine by me. The only concern I see is with Karl, who no longer has a safety net with PDA no longer around, but I think he's mellowed and will be on the same page moving forward.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Here is cronyism:
A golden state parasite (Mullin) attaches itself to your new owner like a tick.
Said golden state parasite influences your owner to hire somebody who used to work for the parasite (Gerbil).
Then the new GM proceeds to hire not 1, but 2 guys who used to work for him in Denver (Bratz and Oliver).
Along the way the GM purges the last of the Petrie cronys (Shareef) and Malone, who stood on his own with no cronys but the weak and baffled owner.
Comparatively Vlade is a clean hire. He would have been a crony hire by Petrie. But Vlade has not worked with or for anybody left in the organization.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
He should urge Divac to hire an excellent talent evaluator in the GM position. Vlade's role as President then becomes coordinator/friction reducer/Vivek buffer. If Vlade, with his charm and people person skills can keep Vivek out of the staff's hair, he will have then succeeded.
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LPKingsFan
All-Star
I read the Ziller piece as taking shots at Vivek, not Vlade, and it certainly isn't as pro PDA as Woj's. But who knows.
John Galt
Starter
He refers to Vlade as a guy who has t been around he NBA for 10 years.
To me that is bush league bull pace.
Larry David
Starter
I agree that he's either got it or he doesn't and being with an organization doesn't give you the eye or the type of mind that allows you to build a team looking at the short and near term. But, I would say that being in an organization or even the NBA allows you to assess those skills before offering the big job. When somebody works for you or you interact with them, you get to hear them say thing like why Klay is underrated in the draft, why Thomas Robinson will be an All-Star, or how Lin would fare outside New York. You find out what they think about things and later you see how those will bear out.
While Kerr didn't work in a front office before going to the Suns, a lot of owners got to interact with him, notice that he had both an eye and a mind for the job, and assess his opinions on players, trades, ect. Based upon their assessment of those skills, there were parties interested in his service and he wasn't an off the board bet.
It's not that reasonable and it hasn't even been argued that Vivek has been picking the brain of Vlade as an eye for NBA talent for many many months before they made this move. As others have correctly identified, he appears to be brought in as a leader to unify for a front office that was miserable, fractured, and lost. That makes sense. Vivek is looking around at the mess he helped create and somebody says, Vlade would be a great guy to pull this all together. And that's why they hired him.
But, I highly doubt Vivek was thinking "Man, Vlade sure had a great read 12 months ago that Draymond Green was going to break out this year and teams that can switch 1-4 like the Bucks could be the defense of the future." He was hired based upon his track record as a leader, his track record with the franchise, and the hope that his eye for talent and mind will make him a great GM. It's way outside the box based upon what normally happen.
Also it should be noted that, Vivek may have a bad eye for talent as he thought PDA and Mullin were home run hires less than 2 years ago and he was very very wrong.
I hope Vlade is a good GM. He's an outside the box hire, from a franchise that's tried a lot with very mixed results. I'd rather bet on somebody more qualified with more of a track record on talent evaluation and Vivek improve moral and the functionality by not being a chief irritant and just writing checks until there is a trade to approve or decline. But it is what it is.
IfAt1st
Starter
Ham's bombshell Cowbell Kingdom podcast said this was going to happen.
"Reporters" who had been living off of PDA leaks would start spouting crap because they can't stop holding PDA's water.
For me, while it would be nice to know the source, I would much rather hear the unsourced information, and then decide for myself whether it sounds plausible, then to not hear it solely to protect the source.
This demand to always know the source seems to actually starve the fanbase of vital information we could use to become more informed and get a deeper picture of the actual goings-on.
Chubbs
Starter
The rumor is that they offered the head coach job to Gentry during the interview for an assistant spot, and he declined.
Malone was not involved in the interview despite his contract saying he has the right to choose his staff. Apparently he had to remind them of that. That was mentioned in the long Bruski et al podcast.
Gee, I wonder who Woj's source is.
During that long podcast I got the distinct impression everyone one of those guys had been lied to, to their faces, by PDA. They all but urged other media to stop listening.
Woj looks like a sucker right now.
Not necessarily. Even if Vlade is confident in his ability to recognize NBA talent, he would still want to find other capable people to swap opinions with. Competent people aren't intimidated by other competent people. Blacklisting someone who disagrees with you (ie PDA and Shareef) is what would imply a lack of confidence to me. Not to mention, recognizing your own strengths and weaknesses and appreciating the need for other opinions is one of the qualifications for any management job. When PDA was initially hired we were still riding high after a long struggle to keep the team ended successfully, but most people were willing to give him a chance until proven otherwise. We should afford Vlade the same opportunity.
This is true but there apparently ways to manipulate the cap, like PDA apparently did by signing guys to contracts that are partially guaranteed into a portion of next season that enables them to be moved as cap pieces and then promptly waived by the receiving team with next to zero penalty. That's assuming that actually happens. While not "genius" there will always be subtle ways to bend the intended rules until they are caught and fixed and so finding a creative person in that regard is a positive. However when that person is terrible at personnel decisions and has the keys to the kingdom, the results are going to be a nightmare.
And also for whatever credit PDA can get for being "inventive" he also tried to max out Ig. It would have been interesting to see if he could have created anything prior to the cap exemption expiring around the draft - often times those get moved for picks, but it's safe to say if that happens anyone could have done the same thing.
What would be great is to see SAR back....I know it won't happen but it would be another shot across the bow at PDA. Look, I was on board the Elfrid Payton wago before the draft as was SAR and I'm going to suspect that SAR wanted to surround Malone with the type of player that would fit what Malone was about.......defensive oriented potential out of the PG spot which Malone kept saying they needed to stop the ball at the point of attack. I can only imagine SAR saying Malome, the coach, needs this type of player. PDA and Mullin probably came back at SAR and told him to pound sand.
I'd love to hear from SAR in an interview but probably has too much class to get involved in this crap show.
I'd love to hear from SAR in an interview but probably has too much class to get involved in this crap show.
macadocious
Starter
Looking back at this saga, I just really wonder what their end game was. Did they think that a certain style could outweigh talent and coaching?
Iced Espresso
Starter
Manipulate to get over the previous manipulations. Then of course you have to get manipulative about the previous manipulations to cover if need be, so manipulate the narrative.
Peter Piper.
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Larry David
Starter
They were convinced that any team not playing pace and space in 2 or 3 years and shooting a lot more 3s wouldn't be playing a style of play that could win. The Warriors and Hawks were the future of the NBA.
In the mean time, the Cavs might knock off the Hawks and Cavs playing hard and relying on ISO ball. Sure, this isn't how the Cavs would rather play and DMC isn't Lebron ... but playing hard and All-NBA talent matter at least as much as the system, often it's what mattes the most. It's unclear if we'll play hard again, we pissed off our franchise player, and our cantankerous coach that's going to get into dust up with DMC would rather stake out the high ground in their relationship for months by making DMC reach out to him to clear the air between them. I'm sure DMC appreciates that loyalty.
In the mean time, the Cavs might knock off the Hawks and Cavs playing hard and relying on ISO ball. Sure, this isn't how the Cavs would rather play and DMC isn't Lebron ... but playing hard and All-NBA talent matter at least as much as the system, often it's what mattes the most. It's unclear if we'll play hard again, we pissed off our franchise player, and our cantankerous coach that's going to get into dust up with DMC would rather stake out the high ground in their relationship for months by making DMC reach out to him to clear the air between them. I'm sure DMC appreciates that loyalty.
allrightythen
Starter
True true. As I read and hear more about how it all went down I'm amazed at just how profoundly he screwed up. I mean even Corbin, who Pete supposedly really liked and respected, ended up getting the screw because of Pete's incompetence. He kinda became the anti-Midas and everything he touched turned to crap. I think maybe he made some decisions that were more a reflection of his relationship with the people involved and less about how good they were at their jobs. I could be wrong though.
There is still a mess to sort out here though. Vlade, while awesome in almost every way, is still pretty new to running a basketball organization and the coach and franchise player may not be on the same page. No way we could have kept Pete based on all this stuff, but the changes thus far elicit confidence. I'm an optimistic guy though so I'll hope for the best.
There's NO WAY on earth you can know if this is true or not. DMC is in China. For all we know, they could already have some kind of meeting scheduled for some time after he returns.
This is reckless commentary, IMHO. Things are strained enough already without people jumping right off assumption cliff and into the murky waters of conclusion pond.
Everything Midas touched turned to gold, but any living thing he touched was dead from that point on. Not sure why the "Midas touch" should ever be thought of as a good thing. It certainly wasn't in the original myth. In fact, it was more of a "be careful what you wish for" morality tale, which is why I objected so strenuously to the Kings use of it during the era of the gold lamè uniform debacle.
NOTE: Sorry for the "lecture." I just realized how upset I still am about the gold uniforms.
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