More Donaghy -- Alleging NBA Fixed Game 6 Series in 2002?

TheFifthMookie · Jun 11, 2008

I have more or less stopped watching alot of games lately because it really feels like the referees decide who wins the close games. 1 charge this way, 2 fouls instead of charges that way, and the 4th quarter is completely changed. It hurts, since I want to care, but I'm slowly losing faith that it's an even court. This latest outing just makes it worse, and here I was thinking about it last night even before I read any of this.

The NBA has a real serious issue on their hands. I suspect they will be losing fans because of this issue, they may have lost me already.

KP · Jun 11, 2008

The poll on Espn is even worse at about 90% (although it's been mysteriously hidden you have to find and click the link now) ...hmmm I wonder if Stern made a call to ESPN...

LA King Fan II · Jun 11, 2008

2002 ruined my sports fan life. It really hurt. Worse than OJ beating UCLA in 1967 or several offer heartbreaking losses to USC. Worse than UCLA losing to Houston and Elvin Hayes on a rare nationally televised college game. Worse than being a laker fan in 1969 and waching Don Nelson's ridiculous shot carom in off the top of the backboard.

anyhow...this is not news. It seemed obvious the "league" wanted the Lakers to win Game Six. Regardless if it was ordered from above, the refs called the game that way. The same way they tend to make lopsided calls when a team is getting it's butt kicked and force a game to tighten up. Whether it was pre-meditated or not the game was called to allow the Lakers to win. Ouch, still.

As long as we're spending all this time going back down horror road, I'd like to weigh in on some stuff. Did I see 15-36 at the free throw line in Game Seven? Geez, that's a team gag. They should have won if they were champions. Damn! They gagged, pure and simple.

I have never bought into the Peja "airball" attack in Game Seven. I have no problem criticizing his "soft" play in later years, but at the time he hadn't played at all in the series. He had a bad ankle and missed a key shot. Shooting is dependent on lift, and he saw little or no action (as I recall) in the series. He wasn't a key player in the series and he wasn't healthy. Fact.

Christie choked a shot in Game 2 at Minnesota (the year Webb got hurt and came back?) We were about to go up 2-0 on the road and he missed an easy shot that may well have saved the franchise. It didn't. As I heard on the radio today, the Kings haven't been good since 2002. Well, not that good anyway. Wished they'd never brought this up.

Merdiesel · Jun 11, 2008

KP said:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3512&action=1&question26794=106236&question26795=106237&question26796=106240&question26797=106241&question26798=106243&question26799=106247&question26800=106248&question26801=106264&question26802=106261&question26803=106259

tradepeja · Jun 11, 2008

ESPN one is less impressive IMO, with only 22,000 votes. The Fox one is only 10% less in the pro-conspiracy column with more than 100,000 more votes.

PejaFanatic · Jun 11, 2008

Peter_Gibbons said:

Yes, its still hurts. Its so hard to get such a good team together to actually make it to the WC-finals. For the games to be fixed is just a shame.

What else is new with professional sports? It happens with soccer in Europe, cheating with baseball and the NBA is just known for the refs doing the work.

David Stern is just going to do the usual deny and pin everything on Donaghy thing. Saying he can't be trusted. But what about the Brian McNamee dude? He did things wrong too but a lot of people seem to believe him over Clemens. Thats because where things make sense it makes sense.

I'm sure most of you know about this, but just to refresh things. The Game 6 was something even Ralphe Nader (consumer rights leader) had a problem with.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2002/s/2002/0605/1390908.html

BONUS

Kobe being the good teammate that he is during Gm2 vs Boston when they were getting pounded by Celtics by 22pts.

WTH? Vlad should ***** slap him.

Jerryaki · Jun 11, 2008

Bricklayer said:

yah, but neither is this. it's just not working as good as it should be. =T

reyes13 · Jun 11, 2008

This is crazy...I got gosebumps watching that old team/footage back in 2002. Anyways, I doubt that the league will admit to this, but at least give us something. Can we file a petition with the players assoc. or league office for a 1st round draft pick via NBA or Fakers?

RKid · Jun 11, 2008

reyes13 said:

{Vince Mcmahon voice} The Lakers didnt screw the kings, the Kings screwed the Kings {End Vince voice}

No but seriously the nba screwed the kings it was not the lakers. I dont see why LA should be punished in any way. (unless Buss made a call to stern then thats a different story)

Aenadin · Jun 11, 2008

No amount of apology could ever take the pain away from the people of sacramento if this thing is true...

my love for the sacramento kings started that year when they beat the mavs... and faced the lakers.. i loved that team and still loving the current one too

if you look at it.. talent wise we were better... if proven the game was rigged this would be enough reason for Stern to resign...

they should make it up to the people of sacramento in a form of...

1. giving them 2 possible top 3 draft picks including the Lakers first rounds
2. build us that arena

3. give us the authority to swap any player regardless of salary with the lakers and them not objecting

(getting bynum for KT LOL)
4. or have the kings get an expanded draft pick for us to pick any one from any team

5. HAVE THE LAKERS PAY OUR Over the Salary Cap any time we want it

nonetheless an apology is not enough... wonder what the maloofs are thinking about it?

sauce-26 · Jun 11, 2008

Aenadin said:

As much as that would be cool, the reality is that the Lakers were not at fault. They played the game just like us. Allegedly the league and the refs were at fault. but like you said, the pain will never be taken away for what they did to us. All that work in vain b/c stern didnt want to see us b/c we are too small of a market. Shame. Allegedly

kingsfaninhumboldt · Jun 11, 2008

I remember watching Game 6 at Arco when the game was at Staples. I remember the hope the fans had that night to finish off the Lakers. I remember the reaction of the fourth quarter. That was the worst game I've ever seen. I also remembered saying that the Kings were going to win Game 7 (and I was proven wrong).

It has taken six years to get to this point, but is it going to change the outcome from 2002? The answer is no. The NBA will not vacate the title from that year. Basically, the story is starting to show that the Kings were robbed of the title that year. I had believe that from the beginning.

I don't think any amount of compensation will be enough to ease my pain from that series. Basically, I find it hard to watch a NBA game that does not involve the Kings. This NBA Finals between the Celtics and the Lakers makes me want to puke. I hardly watched any of the playoffs this year and I knew that it would come down to those two teams. It felt like, wow, I did not miss much in regards to the playoffs.

In the end, I'll still support the Kings. But, the NBA, forget it. I knew the league has an agenda when the superstars don't foul out like a normal player. ALL I WANT IN A BASKETBALL GAME IS CONSISTENCY. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? They don't call traveling, either. I guess that is why I'm more of a college basketball fan than a pro basketball fan today. The NBA is a joke today and it needs to change in order to restore the intergity of the game.

gunks · Jun 12, 2008

Can Stern

Aenadin · Jun 12, 2008

Stern can say that donaghy is lying all day and as much as he wants but that wont bring the fact that THAT GAME was really poorly handled...

perhaps Donaghy is collaborating with the feds.... the feds should and MUST investigate the NBA for the past few years... since there has been so much deceit and it should be stopped before the NBA is completely ruined.. or turns like WWE

These scandals is enough for Stern to resign.... the NBA has been on a decline since he came in.. he let the likes of Noah, carmelo, J-ho and Chris andersen (who did drugs or what ever) send negative vibes around the world. its only a matter of time till this game is full of thugs...

i think as a compensation Stern IS OBLIGATED to build Sactown its arena... and also giving this team a legit and possible high lottery entry reggardless of standings...

he rigged sactown of a trophy... i suggest he rig the 2009 loterry for the kings...

well the only joy here is there is a possibility of tearing down one banner from the lakers.... hope Phil jackson and Kobe got fat so they cant take out the rings

we have to cut them off then

Aenadin · Jun 12, 2008

Sactown may be a small market....but its fans got the biggest hearts

and the biggest spirits....

and those hearts and spirits have been hurt by the league...

thats why i always cheer for the kings and love to watch a game in arco some day

KingKong · Jun 12, 2008

Capt. Factorial said:

Never gonna happen. Don't even dream about it.

First, the league would have to admit that there was biased officiating in Game 6. That, by itself, will almost certainly never happen. Stern will never admit short of proof beyond a reasonable doubt that there was anything intentional. Basically it's going to be "he-said, he-said" at best and Stern will simply take the side of the official who hasn't been criminally convicted for his role in refereeing scandals.

Even if there were proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the officiating was biased, unless that proof extends to the NBA front office itself, the league would simply fire the officials responsible and wash their hands of it.

And even if the league DOES have to take the fall, is there any precedent of rewarding draft picks, especially high ones, for an injustice perpetuated against a team? None that I can think of. And a high draft pick? Think of the screaming that would come from the lottery teams moved down a slot for a compensatory pick coming out of one misofficiated game. Think of the clamor from other teams - "Hey, we were wronged, too."

Basically, I figure 98% chance nothing happens at all. 1.5% chance of lip service from the NBA. 0.5% chance of lip service plus firings. 1 in about 10 million chance of the Kings receiving a compensatory pick at #31.

In the end there's going to be a lot of bluster from Sacramento, but nothing will come of it.

Well said. I suspect this is exactly what happens.

KA_2 · Jun 12, 2008

Bricklayer said:

He doesn't have to do any of that, at least 8-10 FTs in the 4th quarter of Game 6 were intentional fouls on Shaq by the Kings. The discrepancy isn't nearly as severe considering the Game 5 BS in favor of the Kings. It evened out when they couldn't close the deal in Game 7 after the Game 6 BS in favor of the Lakers.

disneydave · Jun 12, 2008

Ralph Naders new comments on NBA ref Scandal

All Donaghy did was reveal what we already knew so how can it be a lie. Nader Commented today about it.

If a liar points out a truth does that fact become a lie or remain a truth?

BMiller52 · Jun 12, 2008

KA_2 said:

Give me a damn break dude. TWENTY SEVEN FREE THROWS. IN A QUARTER. That's on pace to break 100 free throws if it were played like that for the whole game. And you can't tell me that BS, because fouls on Pollard and Vlade where they weren't within 3 feet of Shaq tell you that WASN'T an intentional foul. If it was they sure as hell don't know that it was their intentions.

kingsfan101 · Jun 12, 2008

KA_2 said:

Seems like you didn't see that game. Anyone who watched the game and is not a Laker fan would agree that it was either a conspiracy, or extreme incompetence on the refs part.

FakeInjury · Jun 12, 2008

Aenadin said:

Yes. If so, then i agree, but that would require a fully detailed exploit list involving a lot of people. Its not a question of who is guilty, it is a question of who is not guilty...The Players Assc. should seek some sort of insurance and assurance that the NBA would never try this kind of stuff again. I do not really like the idea of David Stern resigning, because it would set the league back a decade or so. It's up to the people, the "silent majority". Should we let Tim Donaghy free to tell his story? It all comes down to who Refereed game 6. I want their public statements, then i want them fired good or bad. To send a message through the ranks that you will loose your job if you tamper with games. Once those referees in question are let out of their NBA contracts, we may see more candid statements from them. Or we could let it go.

disneydave · Jun 12, 2008

you have some valid points.

FakeInjury said:

Yes. If so, then i agree, but that would require a fully detailed exploit list involving a lot of people. Its not a question of who is guilty, it is a question of who is not guilty...The Players Assc. should seek some sort of insurance and assurance that the NBA would never try this kind of stuff again. I do not really like the idea of David Stern resigning, because it would set the league back a decade or so. It's up to the people, the "silent majority". Should we let Tim Donaghy free to tell his story? It all comes down to who Refereed game 6. I want their public statements, then i want them fired good or bad. To send a message through the ranks that you will loose your job if you tamper with games. Once those referees in question are let out of their NBA contracts, we may see more candid statements from them. Or we could let it go.

well said.

tyrant · Jun 12, 2008

Is david stern the problem

im sick of him protecting these refs. whenever someone questions the integrity of the officials his face turns red as a rose. his blood boiling. should the officials start being held accountable for their calls? i.e, postgame interviews; explaining why they made certain calls. do you think this will help cut down on questionable calls and "fixing".

king07 · Jun 12, 2008

i have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg..it's going to get really ugly really fast.

Heuge · Jun 12, 2008

KA_2 said:

Game 5 BS is certainly more borderline then the crap that happened in 6. And everyone who watched that quarter without purple glasses on thought something odd was happening regardless of the ending fouls to Shaq. Which were less then 8 btw. Don't forget the myriad of other trash that happened in that series which favored the lakers. Samaki Walker anyone?

Heuge · Jun 12, 2008

tyrant said:

He should protect the integrity of the officials. If he loses that, he loses the validity of the league. This is the major reason why I don't think Donaghy is right. At least when it comes to Sterns knowledge of a fixing. I do think something was up in game 6 though.

Jkbiker · Jun 12, 2008

Yes I feel robbed of what should have been the franchise's greatest Season in Sacramento.

After reading through the posts, news articles, the legal filing, Stern's Response I have to agree with Brick that the acusations at this point
have little in the way of real credability, however combined with the
perception of the fans who saw the lopsided officiating. (see polls), and the motive which really exists at the League and TV exec level to extend series and favor big markets when its possible I cant help but feel MAY have been robbed.

Right now all we have allegations that co-incide with the fans observations.

What I want is for Law Enforcement to step in and conduct formal investigations.

I want trained interragators to interview the 3 refs and Donaghy again all seperately, under penalty of purgery, Letting them know they will be procecuted for purgery, tricking them tell them they have other statements from other refs.

I dont trust Donaghy or Stern to tell me the truth

Only the refs involved know the truth, force them to watch the 4th qtr again, explain each call, give one of the refs immunity if they will come clean with the truth. Have them take lie detector tests.

Yeah Yeah I know I must have watched too many cop shows, but I doesnt count what Donaghy heard indirectly, or what Stern will deny,
what counts is knowing what the Refs know that counts. Pressure has to be put on them to tell the truth!!!

Smills91 · Jun 12, 2008

KA_2 said:

The problem with your argument is you're assuming the whole series was fixed. It wasn't. Bad calls even out over a series. The DIFFERENCE here is FIXING the outcome of the game in order to preserve a game 7. That's not right. This isn't a bad call here or there that cost the game, this was BLATANTLY attempting to force a game 7 in order to increase revenue. I don't think the league cared who won or lost overall, but I DO believe they wanted the ratings, dollars and drama of a game 7 in that series, and that's why Game 6 is a travesty, because 5 on 5 the Kings would have won that game and been the NBA champs that year regardless of what happened in game 7.

VF21 · Jun 12, 2008

Of the three refs, it was Ted Bernhardt if memory serves who made the most egregious calls. Where is he? While most of the controversy seems to be circling around Bavetta and Delaney, I'd sure like to know why he seemed to disappear out of the officiating ranks.

Zack · Jun 12, 2008

VF21 said:

Check out this USA Today article about the '03 ASG, there's an interesting quote involving Bernhardt about a call that sent Kobe to the line.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores103/103040/20030209NBA--EAST------0.htm

"I thought it was the game-winner, but anything can happen in
an NBA game," Jordan said.

Anything did. A questionable foul call by referee Ted Bernhardt
put Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant at the line for three
free throws with one second to go. Experiencing mixed
emotions, Bryant made just two free throws to tie the game.

"The first thing when Kobe got up, he said, 'I can't believe
he called that,'" said Indiana forward Jermaine O'Neal, who
committed the foul. "If I were a reporter, I'd go
ask Ted Bernhardt why he called that because that would have
been the perfect article to write."

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