Mike Conley to Declare

[nbrans]

The college three is a chip shot though. I'm referring to NBA range. Paul is developing that nicely.

That's exactly my point. The college three is a chip shot and Conley is shooting 30%. Of course Paul is developing an NBA three, he already had great range in college. Conley is going to have to get a whole lot better before he can even hit an 18 footer consistently.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Chris Paul WAS a lights out shooter in college, he shot over 46% from 3 both years. There's a wide gap there. The difference between Paul and Conley in college was really, really stark, and I don't agree that Conley is as quick as Paul, not to mention that Paul is 6'3". It was obvious Paul was a man among men and was going to make a great pro. You have to kind of squint and hope and pray that he gets a jump shot to see Conley being a star in the NBA. Being a floor general is not enough.

Every source I've found has Paul as 6'0.

 

[BMiller52]

I'd prefer Conley to Jianlian personally...the one thing that Conley DOES do well is dictate the tempo of the game and doesn't make a lot of mistakes...He's also lightning quick and plays the passing lanes well on defense. He's not a light's out shooter, but neither was Chris Paul in college. I think Conley is by far the best PG prospect and also was the best player on the Ohio St. team. He's a leader and all these qualities are the qualities that so many Kings fans have screamed for from our PG position over the past couple years. Conley IMO will be as good as Chris Paul is currently, and that's pretty darn good.

Exactly... Conley can control a game. He can create shots for people. He's only 19 and he's already a good leader. He has a lot of time to improve and he is really quick. AI quick? No but maybe Chris Paul quick. I think Conley will be a really good PG and I think he does have star potential. He was only a freshman and he put up 6 APG. Jianlian got outplayed by freaking Wang Zhizhi.

 

[nbrans]

Every source I've found has Paul as 6'0.

You're right. Not sure where I got 6'3".

 

[Vlade4GM]

1st off there is a huge chance Jianlian is NEVER going to become anything close to Gasol. He's way too skinny, he's playing against horrible competition, and the defenders in the NBA will be way more athletic and they'll have way more strength. He won't get any of those moves going to the basket because he'll have a much harder time getting past NBA defenders. He won't get many rebounds against NBA players. He won't score on NBA guys in the post because he'll get pushed out of the paint way too easily. He can't block shots in China so why are we going to believe he's a good shotblocker against NBA competition? Basically he has a mid range J going for him and height. He's extremely overhyped and he's going to be a bust. Also many sources say he's already 23, possibly 24. So I don't really see how he has all this potential.

Conley is a good past first PG who can defend. He's only 19 and he has a lot of superstar potential. He'll be the best PG in the draft and we can hopefully pick up one of Andray Blatche/Amir Johnson as big men. Conley has proven he can create for guys. He's got quickness and court vision on his side. He's got a decent mid range shot also, so I don't see why he can't improve his jumper. He's 4 years younger than Jianlian and everyone is saying that Jianlian can improve, add strength, learn to box out, block shots, etc. but for some reason Conley can't fix the only hole in his game which is shooting(and that's a skill that IS fixable)? More importedly he was a leader of that OSU team IMO. After he got 2 fouls in the first like 4 minutes against Florida his team basically fell apart even though Oden absolutely dominated Noah/Horford.

First off, you don't know how old Jianlian really is so stating point blank that Conley is 4 years younger than him is disengenuous.

As far as whether he can be pau, you are aware that pau came into the league at 7-0 220 at 21 years of age, right? He was also not a big shot blocker for Barcelona either albeit he probably has a better standing reach than Jianlian. Jianlian obviously has to improve on his strength, but it's not unreasonable that he could add 10-20 lbs, he's very tone right now despite being slight of build. So I'm sure he's a hard worker, once he gets on an NBA weight lifting program who knows. Also, his arms aren't freak long so he could lift. I don't think you're being fair, you're listing all of Jianlian's faults only. You're not mentioning his hops, his very good quickness for a 6'11-7 footer, and his fluidity playing in transition. His big obstacles are finishing with contact (Has to learn from Pau and add strength) and asserting himself offensively (he'll need to play with a good PG imo). I don't think he'll be a dominant rebounder, but he could be a an 8-9 rpg guy. As far as shot blocking I'd compare him to Amare, around 1-1.5. His lateral quickness is very good and he's got quick hands.

Jianlian could bust obviously, but it's just simply not true the guy is just a jump shooting big. He's got very good athleticism and advanced ball skills. If we were to get him I think we definitely need to go to an up tempo offense where he'll excel at. There's a lot Jianlian could improve at once he got into an NBA program. Biggest concerns for me are his strength and possible age.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I'm sure that we're all going to have to accept the fact that we're not getting a superstar with the 10th pick. So Oden/Durant/Wright/Horford/Jianlian/Hibbert will all be gone at that slot.

That said, Mike Conley would be an absolute steal at that position. He's got one hole in his game and it is completely fixable; in fact, his shooting got better over the course of the tournament.

This kid just is a fantastic floor general, and has all the skills you want in your PG. He's pass first, a true facilitator, and he can even create for others with his drive and kick ability. He's a wizard when it comes to handling the ball. He has such great body and ball control, he changes directions so fast that he can practically weave through the lane at will. Not to mention he's got great court vision and creativity to find the open man. The best part is that he's a leader, as he gave Ohio State a real leadership presence on the floor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaD2-8mT2EQ)

That's not even going into his defense, as Conley is a superb ball-hawk with quick hands and great instincts. He just has a feel for the game that you can't teach.

He's also the son of an olympic triple jumper, and he inherited some of his father's hops. Though he doesn't use it often, Conley can definitely leap with the best of them.

 

[Gary]

If Yi, and Conley are available and we are picking 10th than I will go with Yi. You can't pass on a big man with his type of "potential". Plus he will fill a need at PF for us if he ever ends up playing there. I will probally be kicking myself in a couple years, but we do need a big man more than anything.

Lets say we were the Kings of 2001.. Conley for sure I would take over Yi. But the status of the team right now it has to be Yi.

 

[BMiller52]

I'm sure that we're all going to have to accept the fact that we're not getting a superstar with the 10th pick. So Oden/Durant/Wright/Horford/Jianlian/Hibbert will all be gone at that slot.

That said, Mike Conley would be an absolute steal at that position. He's got one hole in his game and it is completely fixable; in fact, his shooting got better over the course of the tournament.

This kid just is a fantastic floor general, and has all the skills you want in your PG. He's pass first, a true facilitator, and he can even create for others with his drive and kick ability. He's a wizard when it comes to handling the ball. He has such great body and ball control, he changes directions so fast that he can practically weave through the lane at will. Not to mention he's got great court vision and creativity to find the open man. The best part is that he's a leader, as he gave Ohio State a real leadership presence on the floor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaD2-8mT2EQ)

That's not even going into his defense, as Conley is a superb ball-hawk with quick hands and great instincts. He just has a feel for the game that you can't teach.

He's also the son of an olympic triple jumper, and he inherited some of his father's hops. Though he doesn't use it often, Conley can definitely leap with the best of them.

Thank you. Conley is way more proven than Yi and we have a need at PG anyway. Yi got owned by freaking Wang Zhizhi...

 

[nbrans]

The thing is, how many NBA teams really need a floor general? Right now if you look at the playoff temas, you have two teams who are built around the once-in-a-generation level of floor leadership in Kidd and Nash. Maybe the Jazz in Williams as 1b. Other than that, point guards are mostly combo scorers/passers, and teams rely on the one on one abilities of their 2s and 3s more than their point guards.

So how valuable is Conley, really? Is he such a great point guard that he's going to be a Nash/Kidd orchestrator? Because if he's not (I'm thinking not), there's a whole lot more value in a scoring/shooting point guard like Baron Davis, Jason Terry, Chauncey Billups and all the other scoring point guards than in a guy who is solely a distributor.

I just don't see the precedent for a guy like Conley being such a great success in the NBA -- who is the comparison? It's not like he's a genre-busting type of player whose successs is transcendent of his abilities. What guy is like Conley in the NBA who is such a great success?

 

[ParniValjak]

Thank you. Conley is way more proven than Yi and we have a need at PG anyway. Yi got owned by freaking Wang Zhizhi...

FFS will you just give it a rest. You are taking one series and building a whole freaking case on it.

There is a reason Yi is widely considered to be a top 10 prospect in this draft. Tell me why do you think that is?

Oh and are you also aware that Gasol regularly got owned by freaking Tarlac?! Didn't to his prospects any harm

 

[Vlade4GM]

The thing is, how many NBA teams really need a floor general? Right now if you look at the playoff temas, you have two teams who are built around the once-in-a-generation level of floor leadership in Kidd and Nash. Maybe the Jazz in Williams as 1b. Other than that, point guards are mostly combo scorers/passers, and teams rely on the one on one abilities of their 2s and 3s more than their point guards.

So how valuable is Conley, really? Is he such a great point guard that he's going to be a Nash/Kidd orchestrator? Because if he's not (I'm thinking not), there's a whole lot more value in a scoring/shooting point guard like Baron Davis, Jason Terry, Chauncey Billups and all the other scoring point guards than in a guy who is solely a distributor.

I just don't see the precedent for a guy like Conley being such a great success in the NBA -- who is the comparison? It's not like he's a genre-busting type of player whose successs is transcendent of his abilities. What guy is like Conley in the NBA who is such a great success?

Lets remember this is the 10th pick we're talking about here. Would he have to be a nash or kidd type orchestrator to be a good pick at that spot?

I still say we trade for the pacers pick from the hawks, if Jianlian and Conley are both available we can get both of them

 

[VF21]

LI still say we trade for the pacers pick from the hawks,

And that just ain't gonna happen.

 

[nbrans]

Lets remember this is the 10th pick we're talking about here. Would he have to be a nash or kidd type orchestrator to be a good pick at that spot?

I still say we trade for the pacers pick from the hawks, if Jianlian and Conley are both available we can get both of them

It's not about the 10th pick -- it's about whether he's going to be a good player in the NBA, or at least better than one of the bigs who are probably going to be available at that pick. He needs to be a Nash/Kidd type of orchestrator if he's going to be worth that pick, unless he develops a jump shot, which is a really big if.

I'm seriously hoping Jinalian is available.

 

[Vlade4GM]

It's not about the 10th pick -- it's about whether he's going to be a good player in the NBA, or at least better than one of the bigs who are probably going to be available at that pick. He needs to be a Nash/Kidd type of orchestrator if he's going to be worth that pick, unless he develops a jump shot, which is a really big if.

I'm seriously hoping Jinalian is available.

A pass first PG can't be a good player unless they're Nash/Kidd good? I don't buy that. Obviously I agree with picking Jianlian over Conley, but Conley has to be Nash/Kidd type facilitator to be a better pick than Hawes, Noah, or Splitter?

 

[nbrans]

A pass first PG can't be a good player unless they're Nash/Kidd good? I don't buy that. Obviously I agree with picking Jianlian over Conley, but Conley has to be Nash/Kidd type facilitator to be a better pick than Hawes, Noah, or Splitter?

All I'm saying is, other than Nash/Kidd, can you think of any pass-first point guards who are a great success, or who can make up for their lack of shooting/scoring with passing? Even those guys can score! What player like Conley has been a big success in the NBA?

 

[BMiller52]

There are plenty of guys who are good point guards on teams in the playoffs. Sure Baron Davis can score but he's a great play maker and a fantastic defender. Nash makes that team go, he is the undisputed leader on that team and he makes plays for everyone there. Kidd is amazing and yeah Conley isn't JKidd, but he was one of the best PGs in the NCAA and is only a freshman. Only a freshman and already getting 6 APG. The Raptors sucked, they had a shoot first PG, and then they get a play maker in TJ Ford and they're in the playoffs the very next season. Deron Williams improvement obviously helped the Jazz a lot and they're doing pretty well the last time I checked. Denver has AI playing PG, and yeah he's not a pass first guy he still averages like what 7 APG?

Teams that have play making PGs: PHX, NJ, TO, GS, Utah, Detroit(call Chauncey shoot first if you want but he still gets 7 APG)

Then SA and Denver have good PGs who aren't play makers. Terry is shoot first also but he's still a good player.

Basically half the teams in the playoffs have good PGs. 6 of those teams have play making PGs.

Conley can definitely make an impact. He can definitely be a star IMO.

 

[Vlade4GM]

All I'm saying is, other than Nash/Kidd, can you think of any pass-first point guards who are a great success, or who can make up for their lack of shooting/scoring with passing? Even those guys can score! What player like Conley has been a big success in the NBA?

Again I ask why does he have to be great to be a good pick at 10?

Also who says Conley doesn't have scoring ability? Despite how much you try to downplay his quickness, he has a very quick first step and to me he looked to be a very good finisher and good finisher with contact as well. I'm not saying I don't have my doubts about him, but the potential is there and it's pretty good for a late lottery pick.

 

[nbrans]

Again I ask why does he have to be great to be a good pick at 10?

Also who says Conley doesn't have scoring ability? Despite how much you try to downplay his quickness, he has a very quick first step and to me he looked to be a very good finisher and good finisher with contact as well. I'm not saying I don't have my doubts about him, but the potential is there and it's pretty good for a late lottery pick.

He doesn't have to be great -- he needs to be good. I just don't even see a good point guard like him in the NBA. Maybe I'm completely off base on this one, but I'd like to see a player like him who has had success in the league before getting excited enough about him to take him with the tenth pick in the draft.

 

[ParniValjak]

There are plenty of guys who are good point guards on teams in the playoffs. Sure Baron Davis can score but he's a great play maker and a fantastic defender. Nash makes that team go, he is the undisputed leader on that team and he makes plays for everyone there. Kidd is amazing and yeah Conley isn't JKidd, but he was one of the best PGs in the NCAA and is only a freshman. Only a freshman and already getting 6 APG. The Raptors sucked, they had a shoot first PG, and then they get a play maker in TJ Ford and they're in the playoffs the very next season. Deron Williams improvement obviously helped the Jazz a lot and they're doing pretty well the last time I checked. Denver has AI playing PG, and yeah he's not a pass first guy he still averages like what 7 APG?

Teams that have play making PGs: PHX, NJ, TO, GS, Utah, Detroit(call Chauncey shoot first if you want but he still gets 7 APG)

Then SA and Denver have good PGs who aren't play makers. Terry is shoot first also but he's still a good player.

Basically half the teams in the playoffs have good PGs. 6 of those teams have play making PGs.

Conley can definitely make an impact. He can definitely be a star IMO.

Err... not quite!

While TJ is one of the reasons why Raptors are better, he is not the key reason. Raptors have a better roster overall than they did this time last year. Parker and the Italian kid have been great additions to their make up and Nesterovic allows Bosh to play his more natural position and not get physically abused by Cs night in night out.

Jazz are better parlty because of Deron's improvement but having a fit and firing Boozer has a fair bit more to do with it.

And last time I checked, a bloke by the name of Blake was playing PG at Denver allowing AI to play as a SG.

I am not against drafting Conley. In fact if one of the better bigs is not there, he would be my pick but all you have done in this thread is selectivly come up with things that are not neccessarily the case to back up your point and discredit others.

First it was that Yi is a bust because he was abused by Whang Zhizi and as such cannot be a Gasol type while ignoring that Gasol used to be schooled reguraly by Tarlac before coming to the NBA. You also pointed out to Yi's skinny frame while ignoring what Gasol was loke when he came into the league.

Then you go out and credit players with something that is not entirely their doing in citing Williams, Ford and AI examples.

 

[BMiller52]

Umm yeah dude that is one of the things you need to be a good team, you need talent. But nbrans is acting like a playmaking PG can't succeed unless they are Kidd/Nash good. I listed PGs with good assist numbers that are very important to their team's succes. That is all I was doing there.

And then nbrans is saying how he doesn't see Conley's potential and says he sees Conley as a bust but I can't say that about Yi? Atleast Conley has performed well against proven talent, has shown leadership skills, and has a lot of skills that can help him make an impact right away. Conley also has a lot of athleticism. Also everybody is saying how Yi is the next Gasol but I don't really agree with that and honestly I am not a huge fan of Pau anyway.

 

[nbrans]

Umm yeah dude that is one of the things you need to be a good team, you need talent. But nbrans is acting like a playmaking PG can't succeed unless they are Kidd/Nash good. I listed PGs with good assist numbers that are very important to their team's succes. That is all I was doing there.

And then nbrans is saying how he doesn't see Conley's potential and says he sees Conley as a bust but I can't say that about Yi? Atleast Conley has performed well against proven talent, has shown leadership skills, and has a lot of skills that can help him make an impact right away. Conley also has a lot of athleticism. Also everybody is saying how Yi is the next Gasol but I don't really agree with that and honestly I am not a huge fan of Pau anyway.

All I'm saying is, show me a guy like Conley who is successful in the league. It's not that high of a threshold -- show me a guy who can distribute but who can't shoot who is successful in the NBA. I just don't think it's a great formula -- maybe he can learn to shoot, but I'm not so sure if you want to try and count on that.

At least with Yi, there isn't really a guy like him -- he's even more athletic than Nowiztki, and he has actually competed against the best in the NBA and has done well.

I'm not saying Yi is the next Gasol or the next anything. I'd just rather have a guy who is a ridiculously athletic seven footer than a point guard who can't shoot.

 

[Venom]

All I'm saying is, show me a guy like Conley who is successful in the league. It's not that high of a threshold -- show me a guy who can distribute but who can't shoot who is successful in the NBA. I just don't think it's a great formula -- maybe he can learn to shoot, but I'm not so sure if you want to try and count on that.

At least with Yi, there isn't really a guy like him -- he's even more athletic than Nowiztki, and he has actually competed against the best in the NBA and has done well.

I'm not saying Yi is the next Gasol or the next anything. I'd just rather have a guy who is a ridiculously athletic seven footer than a point guard who can't shoot.

I'll throw out a comparison, a young Gary Payton. Payton was VERY streaky for a while. Sacramento's own Kevin Johnson was not a great shooter until later in his career. But currently, no, there is not anybody specifically like Conley. I think Conley will be a good value pick in the late lottery, but not for the Kings. Why? Because Artest and Bibby are on the block. Those two guys will be going to current playoff teams. If they were good in a rebuild, we would not be moving them. We will get one, if not two, late firsts in return for these guys. With the #10 and a late first, the better value would be one of the swings who will be hanging around at #10 (Jianlin, Brewer, Wright, Green) and Taurean Green with the later pick.

It's not sexy. It does not net us the big everybody craves, but it preserves value at our picks. A reach pick for need, especially in basketball, really sets you back. You can always trade talent later for a better fitting piece.

Here's something else: WE WILL BE IN THE LOTTERY NEXT YEAR. If we miss out on the bigs this year, then that is unfortunate, but no reason to reach on Hawes or Noah to assuage our misery.

 

[fnordius]

Brevin Knight is a pretty good example of a PG who makes himself very valuable without being much of a shooter. In his younger days I always found myself wishing we could manage to get him somehow. But, besides his abilities as a distributor, Brevin is the most defense you can get in a small package in the NBA, period.

If we were in our usual draft position, in a usual draft year, I'd LOVE to get a guy like that. This year, I'm not so sure, it all depends on who'd we'd miss out on. I'll be sure when everyone who gets to pick before us is done.

 

[6th]

I'd just rather have a guy who is a ridiculously athletic seven footer than a point guard who can't shoot.

And THAT is what it comes down to for me.

 

[BMiller52]

BTW I'm not sure why everybody even assumes Jianlian will be there if he is as good as you guys make him out to be. He's already pretty high in most mock drafts and he is an athletic big man so that helps his value also. If he performs well in workouts and stuff like that he'll impress GMs that are drafting ahead of us. I could see Chicago taking him if they feel like Ty Thomas is a 3, and they did at the beginning of the season. I could see Charlotte taking him because IIRC they seem to want to play Okafor at Center, and Okafor could make up for his lack of D/rebounding.

 

[rhythmless]

if yi falls to chicago, i disagree that they would take him. chicago's most glaring need is a post presence. yi is not the back to the basket work em in player that the bulls need to balance their drive and kick system. im betting hawes fits what they need a lot better. he fits well as a center, and perhaps ben could shift to the 4.

 

[Vlade4GM]

All I'm saying is, show me a guy like Conley who is successful in the league. It's not that high of a threshold -- show me a guy who can distribute but who can't shoot who is successful in the NBA. I just don't think it's a great formula -- maybe he can learn to shoot, but I'm not so sure if you want to try and count on that.

At least with Yi, there isn't really a guy like him -- he's even more athletic than Nowiztki, and he has actually competed against the best in the NBA and has done well.

I'm not saying Yi is the next Gasol or the next anything. I'd just rather have a guy who is a ridiculously athletic seven footer than a point guard who can't shoot.

Andre Miller?

 

[Vlade4GM]

BTW I'm not sure why everybody even assumes Jianlian will be there if he is as good as you guys make him out to be. He's already pretty high in most mock drafts and he is an athletic big man so that helps his value also. If he performs well in workouts and stuff like that he'll impress GMs that are drafting ahead of us. I could see Chicago taking him if they feel like Ty Thomas is a 3, and they did at the beginning of the season. I could see Charlotte taking him because IIRC they seem to want to play Okafor at Center, and Okafor could make up for his lack of D/rebounding.

Actually I don't think anyone is assuming that, just merely hoping.

 

[Vlade4GM]

if yi falls to chicago, i disagree that they would take him. chicago's most glaring need is a post presence. yi is not the back to the basket work em in player that the bulls need to balance their drive and kick system. im betting hawes fits what they need a lot better. he fits well as a center, and perhaps ben could shift to the 4.

Well they were wanting Gasol pretty bad at the deadline, he's not a back to the basket low post player either. I think they just want a scorer at the 4 or 5. So I can see them taking Jianlian.

 

[rhythmless]

i can see it too, but anytime theres someone of gasols caliber on the trade block, you go for it and see what you have to give up for it. theres a difference between that, and having your pick of the kiddies. between yi or hawes, hawes fits their need better. course, this is biased/wishful thinking on my part. like some of the rest here, id rather reach a little bit for a big on potential and wait next year for the supposed guard oriented draft.