Miami still eyeing Artest

[AriesMar27]

I think trading for any veteran from the Miami Heat would be a mistake. If they have mediocre production alongside Shaq and the team gets knocked out of the playoffs in the first round in the East, what does that suggest about the impact they'd make here?

Then again if we get rid of KT, I won't complain (unless Antoine Walker's involved).

the mavs los t in the 1st round too... doesnt mean that they suck, they just lost...

 

[Entity]

OK, I went through the whole season log of his games played. He did have a few nice games. He played alot early and then he didn't play much later on. Can't knock down the 3 at this point. Has a good shooting %. As far as a great rebounding SF....I'll say he showed some potential to average lots of rebounds.....he also didn't rebound on occasion. Great rebounders are consistent, he wasn't. Then again he's only 21. The comparisons to Smith and Wallace....sure, I would agree with how you said it.

Now as I said, wait a month into the season for a trade like this. But the package being talked about in this deal of Wright, an ender, and the stiffs of Cook or Simien. Not for me at this point. Do we really need an ender for Artest's contract? No. Would we like to get something for him? Yes. Should we get more back than the stated package? Hell yes. I'm stating that at this point, perhaps we should let Artest and Theus see if they can get on the same page as Artest and Adelman. It's not like he has a crappy contract.

If you wait a month into the season an Wright does what I and many other expect him to as a starter then you won't get Him for Ron. As far as the reboudning goes. inconsstent as a SF doesn't mean 7 or 8 for 5 games and then 14. i am not using the 14 as his guideline. The 7 or 8 is what i am talking about. He can easily average 7 reb a game. No he doesn't have a 3pt game but, is that something we really need? K-mart, Bibby, Garcia, Douby will shoot plenty of 3's for us.

 

[dude12]

He can easily average 7 reb a game. No he doesn't have a 3pt game but, is that something we really need? K-mart, Bibby, Garcia, Douby will shoot plenty of 3's for us.

You have more faith in him than I do at this point. Thats OK...you may be right....but the fact of the matter is that Artest is way above that kid for the foreseeable future. I'll take as many 3-point shooters as possible. Spacing these guys on the 3-point line would give our post guy some room to manuever....in this case, I'm hoping its Hawes.

 

[cfechter]

You have more faith in him than I do at this point. Thats OK...you may be right....but the fact of the matter is that Artest is way above that kid for the foreseeable future. I'll take as many 3-point shooters as possible. Spacing these guys on the 3-point line would give our post guy some room to manuever....in this case, I'm hoping its Hawes.

I think the point about Wright has been missed, somewhat. I'm not necessarily enamored with him either, but he is part of what rebuilding is all about - youth with potential. Maybe he becomes as good as Gerald Wallace or Josh Smith, maybe he doesn't. We don't know at this point.

Worst case scenario at this point is Ron leaves at the end of this year for nothing (which probably wouldn't be a bad thing). Getting Wright and a future first would definitely be a step in the right direction. Sure, we may lose a few more games this year than we would have if we had Artest, but do we really want a few more years of disgustingly mediocre basketball before we start really being bad?

 

[dude12]

No, the point is that getting only Wright for Artest is not enough. The ender contract doesn't matter only for trade purposes since Artest doesn't have a bad contract. The other guys in the proposed deal are a joke. A 1st and Wright is more palatable but I think at this point, I'd rather have Artest and let him play for Theus.

 

[Jerryaki]

A 1st and Wright is more palatable but I think at this point, I'd rather have Artest and let him play for Theus.

i don't think "let it ride" is a good strategy with artest at this point. what's the point of letting him play for theus for one year when he's going to be walking out that door next summer? having his money come off the books now isn't going to do a whole lot of good.

and if he stays...that's a whole other can of worms.

 

[hiero]

honestly im tired of Miami trying to trade with us. They have nothing interesting at all besides Wright who is somewhat intriguing but definitely not worth it. Id much rather keep Artest than get another overpaid mediocre PF in Haslem.

 

[cfechter]

No, the point is that getting only Wright for Artest is not enough. The ender contract doesn't matter only for trade purposes since Artest doesn't have a bad contract. The other guys in the proposed deal are a joke. A 1st and Wright is more palatable but I think at this point, I'd rather have Artest and let him play for Theus.

I agree the ender doesn't "matter" that much since Artest doesn't have a bad contract, but we HAVE to get an ender as part of the deal. Would you prefer Haslem and his craptastic contract instead of an ender in the Wright/1st rounder deal?

I think Artest was disruptive enough last year to make his absence a positive for this team. To get two younger players to boot, well, that would make his absence even better. On talent alone, getting WRight and a first is not nearly enough as you stated above, but talent isn't the only issue with Ron.

 

[bajaden]

The question at hand is do we trade Artest now, or at least before the trade deadline and get something for him, or wait a year and get nothing. There are pluses and minuses to both. In one year, his contract is off the books. Or at least we assume he will opt out, and he probably will. If we trade him. What do we want in return? Are we really rebuilding from scratch? Or are we trying to fix things on the run? Of course we don't know and Petri isn't going to tell us, because it could weaken his bargining position. I for one still think that Artest will end up in New York. Its a place he would want to play and they have more of what we want. We'll see.

As an aside... I could post on this board that Bob Petit and my then St Louis Hawks with Duggi Martin, Cliff Hagen, Jack McMahan, Easy Ed McCauley, and later Lenny Wilkins, was the team that I grew up with and learned to love basketball with. That was over 40 years ago. Does that make me more knowledgeable than most of the other people on the board? Maybe. Maybe not. The game has changed a lot since then. Besides, sometimes I think the hard drive between my ears doesn't have enough memory left on it, and certainlly not enough meg's of ram to recall some of the worthless crap thats in there. My point is, that everyone is intitaled to their oppinon whether they have been watching for 2yrs or 40 yrs, and the fact that I've been watching for 40yrs or that Bricky has been watching for 25 yrs is only important to him and to me. Bricky is an extremely knowledgeable person. I make that statement based on what he write's, even when I sometimes disagree with him, and not on how many years he's paid attention to basketball.

If our intent is to influence others on this board with our opinion, then let us do so in a convincing matter that relates to the subject, and not try and hammer someone who might disagree with us.. Attack the content and not the person.

 

[dude12]

I agree the ender doesn't "matter" that much since Artest doesn't have a bad contract, but we HAVE to get an ender as part of the deal. Would you prefer Haslem and his craptastic contract instead of an ender in the Wright/1st rounder deal?

I think Artest was disruptive enough last year to make his absence a positive for this team. To get two younger players to boot, well, that would make his absence even better. On talent alone, getting WRight and a first is not nearly enough as you stated above, but talent isn't the only issue with Ron.

I understand the potential disruptions that Artest could cause, but I also put part of the on-court blame on Musselman. I think we can get a better deal elsewhere.

 

[15stronggonestronger]

Ron Artest and SAR
for
Haslem, Wright, and Posey (S&T)


Say what you want about Haslem. Fact is, he's better than SAR and Kenny Thomas combined.

 

[BawLa]

Ron Artest and SAR
for
Haslem, Wright, and Posey (S&T)


Say what you want about Haslem. Fact is, he's better than SAR and Kenny Thomas combined...and he gets paid less $$$.

That doesn't excite us. Your point would be stronger if you left KT and SAR out of it.

If you want Artest, we are not going to take out your trash too (Haslem). And we have to get that 1st rd. draft pick or there is no deal.

 

[BMiller52]

Ron Artest and SAR
for
Haslem, Wright, and Posey (S&T)


Say what you want about Haslem. Fact is, he's better than SAR and Kenny Thomas combined.

Not really. THe only thing he's better at is defense. SAR is a better post player and Kenny(when he's actually trying) is a better rebounder. Haslem isn't anything special and considering our GM supposedly said he wants cap space in 2 years Haslem's 3 year deal doesn't help us considering he's pretty much just as undersized and mediocre as the 2 pfs we have right now.

 

[15stronggonestronger]

That doesn't excite us. Your point would be stronger if you left KT and SAR out of it.

If you want Artest, we are not going to take out your trash too (Haslem). And we have to get that 1st rd. draft pick or there is no deal.

if you think you're better with those guys and there contracts, then fine. suit yourself. i thought i was helping you guys out. so far, it's been about trading artest for haslem and wright. shame on me for including such superstars as KT and SAR.

 

[VF21]

if you think you're better with those guys and there contracts, then fine. suit yourself. i thought i was helping you guys out. so far, it's been about trading artest for haslem and wright. shame on me for including such superstars as KT and SAR.

So you're Pat Riley?

As a Miami Heat fan, you're more than welcome to post here. Let's keep the sarcasm and snide comments out of it, okay?

Thanks.

 

[Jerryaki]

So you're Pat Riley?

of course, check out the screen name.

 

[15stronggonestronger]

of course, check out the screen name.

alright. busted. i guess the cat's outta the bag now.

did i say something wrong? other people in this very thread mentioned adding SAR or KT to a trade involving artest. but if I do it, I'm just flat-out evil. all of a sudden they're great players? How hypocritical can you guys be? is this how you welcome visitors? this saddens me. i think i deserve an apology.

 

[VF21]

Nah, you didn't do anything wrong. But don't assume two posters are speaking for the rest of us.

You may indeed find a number of Kings fans who MIGHT go along with your trade idea.

We just get a bit testy at some suggestions. We're trying hard to get past what was a horrific season for us - on and off the court - and as you can imagine, nerves are a bit frayed.

That's about as close to an apology as you're gonna get.

 

[beb0p]

If Miami offers Dorrell Wright, we should jump on it before they change their minds. I've seen Wright play, the kid has a huge ceiling. I think in three yrs he'll a Richard Jefferson clone.


but I don't think Miami is offering Wright. That's no way they let him go for a short rental of Artest. If the Heat is offering a package, my guess is a vet (Haslem?) plus next yr's 1st.

 

[cfechter]

I understand the potential disruptions that Artest could cause, but I also put part of the on-court blame on Musselman. I think we can get a better deal elsewhere.

Could cause? You mean, did cause? It's a well documented fact at this point that he was a major disruption last year (I do trust Grant Napear's opinion on this matter since he travels with the team and knows the inner workings better than most). Just not having him with us would probably make us better.

 

[VF21]

Grant Napear may travel with the team BUT that doesn't make him privvy to everything that happens. Lots of stuff goes on when the team isn't traveling, you know, that Napear may or may not hear about.

Saying "well documented" based solely on what Howdy Doody says may be over-stating the facts.

 

[Jerryaki]

alright. busted. i guess the cat's outta the bag now.

did i say something wrong? other people in this very thread mentioned adding SAR or KT to a trade involving artest. but if I do it, I'm just flat-out evil. all of a sudden they're great players? How hypocritical can you guys be? is this how you welcome visitors? this saddens me. i think i deserve an apology.

um, welcome? for me, i don't have a problem if you want to include KT or SAR, but it does us no good to get back haslem; we're not better with SAR or KT or Haslem, we're just the same.

as i'm sure someone will eventually point out, there is a difference around here of criticizing the post, and criticizing the poster. so don't take things too personally, and welcome!

 

[BawLa]

if you think you're better with those guys and there contracts, then fine. suit yourself. i thought i was helping you guys out. so far, it's been about trading artest for haslem and wright. shame on me for including such superstars as KT and SAR.

That is where you are just wrong. FOR US, it is about trading Artest for young talent, ending contracts and draft picks. It has, and never will be, about trading for a guy like Haslem, who has 3 years on his contract, who has been declining for a couple years, and who does not provide the defense we desperately need from the PF position.

Bringing KT and SAR into this is a pointless exercise because they play the same position as Haslem and they have similar contracts (3 years and 5-$7M/yr).

No one called you evil. No one said KT and SAR are great players (even though it is suspect that you are so willing to swap Haslem for them). We are not being hypocritical, we are being realistic. If you make a suggestion we will give you due respect, but that doesn't mean we have to like the suggestion. We welcome visitors all the same: with open arms. When said visitor makes a trade suggestion that is distasteful to our collective pallettes, then we will be sure to say how we feel about it.

The fact is that we are logjammed at PF. So trading a SF and getting a PF in return only complicates the problem further.

 

[cfechter]

Grant Napear may travel with the team BUT that doesn't make him privvy to everything that happens. Lots of stuff goes on when the team isn't traveling, you know, that Napear may or may not hear about.

Saying "well documented" based solely on what Howdy Doody says may be over-stating the facts.

I do agree with you somewhat, but I woud have to agree with Grant's observations. I realize you dont' particularly care for him, but that's no reason to doubt him when he says RA was a disruption last year.

Even w/o Grant's comments, the fact he was arrested for domestic violence does enough to disrupt the team on its own merits.

 

[VF21]

I do agree with you somewhat, but I woud have to agree with Grant's observations. I realize you dont' particularly care for him, but that's no reason to doubt him when he says RA was a disruption last year.

While my dislike for Grant's waffling is not reason in and of itself to doubt him, I don't think the fact he travels with the team is reason in and of itself to believe everything he says.

R.E. Graswich used to travel with the team too.

Even w/o Grant's comments, the fact he was arrested for domestic violence does enough to disrupt the team on its own merits.

On this part we are in total agreement, which has been my main point for quite a while. I don't dislike Artest; what I dislike is the constant media circus surrounding him. Every slight misdeed simply becomes more grist for the rumor mills and I'm really tired of that kind of publicity. Unfortunately, I don't think Artest's life will ever become less public and that's one of the main reasons, along with his core instability, that leads me to hope we can get a good deal for him and move him on his way.

 

[cfechter]

While my dislike for Grant's waffling is not reason in and of itself to doubt him, I don't think the fact he travels with the team is reason in and of itself to believe everything he says.

R.E. Graswich used to travel with the team too.



On this part we are in total agreement, which has been my main point for quite a while. I don't dislike Artest; what I dislike is the constant media circus surrounding him. Every slight misdeed simply becomes more grist for the rumor mills and I'm really tired of that kind of publicity. Unfortunately, I don't think Artest's life will ever become less public and that's one of the main reasons, along with his core instability, that leads me to hope we can get a good deal for him and move him on his way.

Well, Grant is a waffler. I remember one situation last yaer, he made a comment along the lines of "Kenny thomas just looks like he's out of it", then KT called a few minutes later and called him on it and he flat denied saying it.

That being said, since he does travel with the team I do trust his opinion more than any other writer/journalist, even though he isn't privy to everything. hence, if he says Ron was a disruption, I tend to believe him.

I also hope we can get a good deal for him, and if not, that we let him go for nothing without taking on any crappy contracts.

 

[15stronggonestronger]

That is where you are just wrong. FOR US, it is about trading Artest for young talent, ending contracts and draft picks. It has, and never will be, about trading for a guy like Haslem, who has 3 years on his contract, who has been declining for a couple years, and who does not provide the defense we desperately need from the PF position.

Bringing KT and SAR into this is a pointless exercise because they play the same position as Haslem and they have similar contracts (3 years and 5-$7M/yr).

No one called you evil. No one said KT and SAR are great players (even though it is suspect that you are so willing to swap Haslem for them). We are not being hypocritical, we are being realistic. If you make a suggestion we will give you due respect, but that doesn't mean we have to like the suggestion. We welcome visitors all the same: with open arms. When said visitor makes a trade suggestion that is distasteful to our collective pallettes, then we will be sure to say how we feel about it.

The fact is that we are logjammed at PF. So trading a SF and getting a PF in return only complicates the problem further.

I didnt suggest trading a sf for a pf. in the trade I suggested, you're trading 1 GF AND a 1 PF for 2 GFs and 1 PF. That's exactly why included SAR or KT in the trade. Because it'd be a logjam otherwise. Frankly, I think they both suck. As I said before, I thought it'd be doing you guys a favor. Double-doubles: Haslem 21. SAR & KT combined 8. Are you kidding me? I know you want expiring contracts but that doesnt mean you'll get it. Having said that, with all contracts being equal, wouldn't you want the best player? Haslem may have 3 years left, but he's still well underpaid. If you dont think so, then by all means, choose a pf that is both better AND is paid less. If you think you can get one who's better AND cheaper, then you're kidding yourself. By the same token, i didnt think there was any other person on that team that you'd wanna trade more than SAR or KT.

Apparently, you guys dont see that I was actually agreeing with you.

 

[dude12]

Could cause? You mean, did cause? It's a well documented fact at this point that he was a major disruption last year (I do trust Grant Napear's opinion on this matter since he travels with the team and knows the inner workings better than most). Just not having him with us would probably make us better.

Sure is a catch-22 with Artest. He probably(maybe) was disruptive but, I also know that he came to play most nights and play hard. There are a few other starters that I can't say the same thing about.

 

[Gary]

if you think you're better with those guys and there contracts, then fine. suit yourself. i thought i was helping you guys out. so far, it's been about trading artest for haslem and wright. shame on me for including such superstars as KT and SAR.

I would do it, but only if a draft pick was included.. Haslem just doesn't excite me as someone to play for the Kings down the road. We already have a non scoring/rebounder that is a short PF in Williams.

 

[Smills91]

This is like the kid sitting in the bicycle shop window who's eying that $1000 shiny new dirt bike in the window. Every time he opens up his wallet though, all he finds are a couple 20's in his wallet. He goes back every week to check out the bike to see if the price is lowered, which it hasn't, and keeps checking his wallet and to no avail, it's still just 40 bucks in his wallet.

The Heat sure like to window shop.