McNeal: Vick case illustrates big divide

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/347706.html

Marty Mac's World: Vick case illustrates big divide
By Martin McNeal - Bee Columnist
Last Updated 12:05 am PDT Tuesday, August 28, 2007
Story appeared in SPORTS section, Page C1


Just Sunday, the thought of what is and has been going on in the mind of Michael Vick for the past three months came to my mind. Additionally, though, the thought of how racially divided the United States of America actually remains in 2007 also pops up when listening to sports' talking heads.

The Vick case and the Barry Bonds home run chase have provided great insight on just how differently some black Americans and white Americans view life.

We all, in many ways, are products of our environments and experiences. Those often vastly different experiences sometimes leave us blind to how they shape us in one way or another. If the Bonds and Vick situations have revealed nothing else, it is that there is much work and communication to be done to exchange and share our experiences so we can better understand each other.

I don't need a poll to recognize that people often see the exact same situations completely differently. And we all seem amazed that we do. But that's just one rub. News flash: Not all black people share the same viewpoints, nor do all white.

Particularly during controversial, high-profile situations such as those involving Bonds and Vick, media folk are propped up to speak as if they represent different sectors of society en masse.

It's not like that. Sure, there are a great many black Americans who believe media coverage of the Bonds and Vick cases has been unfair at times. I would guess some white Americans share that view.

We have to keep in mind these two cases might be the most bizarre and unusual in sports history. Vick will be sentenced Dec. 10 after pleading guilty Monday to a federal conspiracy dogfighting charge and providing money to assist gambling on the dogfights.

I can't speak on what it was like growing up in a white household or even having spent a lot of time in one, other than hanging out with Donna Reed, Opie, Andy and Aunt Bee and the "My Three Sons" crib. (For all you youngsters, those were prime-time television characters and shows during the 1960s.) However, I've spent much time in black households in New York City and all along the Eastern corridor of the United States. Racial injustice, dealing with "The Man" and how "The Man" dealt with us and other minorities often was a prime topic of conversation.

I read and hear people talking about using "the race card." In what kind of deck of cards do you find that one? My decks had only 52 and a big and little joker.

There is no race card, people. But when people speak on things such as the Vick and Bonds matters, they convey their perspective of how race plays a role. You may either agree or disagree, but forget that race-card garbage.

And when I hear it said by prominent talk show hosts and callers that Vick should not be allowed to play again in the NFL, it occurs to me that these people forget playing in the NFL is just a job. That's all. So, now Vick can't get a job if someone wants to hire him? How these folks get off thinking they are justified in making this assessment is beyond me.

The man reportedly used dogs to make money for approximately six years. If he gets off with two years in prison, he's getting off easily to me. What I hope for Vick is that he one day says something akin to, "Man, torturing and killing those dogs was terrible, and it's hard for me to sleep at night." Then I'll have a feeling he understands the pain he has caused.

As for all these moralists going after Michael Vick: When will they turn some attention to all the Americans, men and women, dying at war representing -- not defending -- our country, and make the people responsible for sending and keeping them in that situation explain exactly how that is all good?

About the writer: E-mail mmcneal@sacbee.com
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#2
Once again, I have to wonder if Marty McNeal was dropped on his head a few too many times as a child - or hit with runaways basketballs too often while covering the Kings.

And when I hear it said by prominent talk show hosts and callers that Vick should not be allowed to play again in the NFL, it occurs to me that these people forget playing in the NFL is just a job. That's all. So, now Vick can't get a job if someone wants to hire him? How these folks get off thinking they are justified in making this assessment is beyond me.
No, Marty, it's not about Vick not getting any job. It's about him being able to earn millions and millions of dollars in the NFL, as opposed to having to actually work in a job where his pay is somewhat commensurate with what he actually does. No one is saying Vick should never be employed again. What people are saying - and it makes NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever what color Vick is - is that he (as a professional athlete to whom kids invariably look up) is going to be held to a higher standard.

And people who object to Michael Vick's actions come from all sides of the political spectrum. For McNeal to try and make this about race and politics is pretty pathetic - and telling in and of itself.

I guess maybe I don't get it but it sure seems to me that McNeal was using a race card to protest using THE race card, whatever the heck that means.

...
 
#3
My exact reaction VF. No one's saying he shouldn't be able to get a job. Good grief.

As I said elsewhere about the NAACP spokeperson in Atlanta, nobody seems to much care if his co-defendents are able to get jobs later. Or at least they don't mention their futures at all, that I've seen. I can almost 100% guarantee it will be much, much harder for them. (Which is wrong in my opinion. Paroled felons need jobs and places to live, too.)
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#5
There is a brilliant piece written by Howard Bryant at ESPN.com discussing Vick and the race issue in more detail. I highly recommend everyone read it. I couldn't agree with it more.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=bryant_howard&id=3035358

I do not know if I couldn't agree more with it -- in fact it is its very sophistication and unwillingness to go for the easy answer that make it outstanding. But it as a really unusual piece in its sophistication, and unfortunately probably far too nuanced and thoughtful for the very knee jerk reactionary types who most need to read it.
 
#6
I do not know if I couldn't agree more with it -- in fact it is its very sophistication and unwillingness to go for the easy answer that make it outstanding. But it as a really unusual piece in its sophistication, and unfortunately probably far too nuanced and thoughtful for the very knee jerk reactionary types who most need to read it.
haha, nice Brick... so if for some reason we don't agree with it, we're not nuanced or thoughtful eh? Excellent setup there... :)

Now I'll go and read it... I sure hope I'm nuanced and thoughtful!
 
#7
Sigh. Nothing particularly new in that ESPN article.

Question: Is there a way I can be disgusted at Vick for what he did? And particularly, as a fan for making it so I wont' be able to enjoy his talents on the field without being labeled a racist? If anything I guess you could say this article highlights how impossible it is to have any sort of rational dialogue over what happened, and how impossible it is to just leave it at the act being something right or wrong regardless of race.

As to the original article... I have no problem if Vick is able to get a job in the NFL again. If he pays his penalty (in whatever capacity that ends up being), the NFL is free to hire or not hire him again. My guess is they won't, but he shouldn't be prevented from it by some legal mechanism.

In the end, this topic presents a large risk of going south quickly, so I will just sum up my opinion... I'm more disgusted at Vick for being a moron and getting himself in this scenario in the first place than I am at the dogfighting, which although perhaps something very detestable isn't exactly a threat to society. If you're anybody, and especially if you're a high profile anybody how bout just NOT doing stupid things?

Interested to hear how you label me Brick. :)
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#8
Sigh. Nothing particularly new in that ESPN article.

Question: Is there a way I can be disgusted at Vick for what he did? And particularly, as a fan for making it so I wont' be able to enjoy his talents on the field without being labeled a racist? If anything I guess you could say this article highlights how impossible it is to have any sort of rational dialogue over what happened, and how impossible it is to just leave it at the act being something right or wrong regardless of race.

As to the original article... I have no problem if Vick is able to get a job in the NFL again. If he pays his penalty (in whatever capacity that ends up being), the NFL is free to hire or not hire him again. My guess is they won't, but he shouldn't be prevented from it by some legal mechanism.

In the end, this topic presents a large risk of going south quickly, so I will just sum up my opinion... I'm more disgusted at Vick for being a moron and getting himself in this scenario in the first place than I am at the dogfighting, which although perhaps something very detestable isn't exactly a threat to society. If you're anybody, and especially if you're a high profile anybody how bout just NOT doing stupid things?

Interested to hear how you label me Brick. :)

I label you simply as somebody who either did not read all the way through the article, or somebody who must have missed the point(s). Because if you read that and think it was taking a side...well, just reread it. Its a considerably sophisticated social study, not an op ed.

There are always all kinds of simpletons and kneejerkers on any issue, but this one, in its stark and obvious right and wrong, really exposes the depths to which interests and prejudices can obscure fairly simple right and wrong. By the time you get done traipsing through a "black community" looking for dubious excuses, white racists looking for a demon/symbol of all that is threatening, animal rights activists who might not cause such a fuss if it had been people rather than dogs, people who resent wealth/athletes/privilege, people who worship wealth/athletes/privilege, sports fans shallow enough not to care so long as their guy can take the field and entertain them...well, its a potently sophisticated background for what should be a very simple case of somebody doing something vile and being punished for it. Vick's an idiot and appropriately going to jail, but its all the messed up swirl of confused reasoaing around the issue which is fasicnating, and a little depressing. And so you get a guy willing to talk about it and actually get it published and that's a good thing, but unfortunately the people in all of the above groups don't care. They have no patience for nuance and very little ability to look in the mirror.
 
Last edited:

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
I'm more disgusted at Vick for being a moron and getting himself in this scenario in the first place than I am at the dogfighting, which although perhaps something very detestable isn't exactly a threat to society. If you're anybody, and especially if you're a high profile anybody how bout just NOT doing stupid things?
Excellent points, Variant. I'd like to see the bolded part become the 11th commandment...
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#11
The Byrant pice may be thoughtfull and nuanced, but from my perspective he misses the point. If one looks at the Vick case from the perspective of a sociologist or antropolgist the element of race is encompassed in a larger less volitol topic, that of culture. Vick comes from a subculture of American culture at large. In his refrence group dog fighting IS considered a form of entertainment. While I would stop short of saying he he did not think he was doing something wrong (he clearly knew it was illeagel) with in the context of HIS cultural group (note this is NOT all Black Americans) the crime is seen primarly as victimless. Much like other sub cultures understand that betting on golf at the local country club is illeagle or that making your own moonshine is illeagle.

The clash of cultures here is the view of the role and value of animal life. American culture at large has mixed and schiphrenic feelings on what constitutes animial cruelity, when it is justifiable and which animials deserve some if any protections. But in general we hold that if animials mucst be killed it should be quick and as painless as possible. The killing of animals for entertanment purposes is wrong and that there is a hiarchy of which animals are most deserving of the greatest protections. Dogs top the list followed by cats... our companion animals. While American culture at large has no ethical hang up with useing animals for entertainment or wagering on the outcomes, we expect that these animals will not be abused or harmed in the process.

So what Vick did in the eyes of the American public at large was morally repugnat for SEVERAL reasons. First he tortured and killed our favorite animal. Had this been a roster fighting ring I seriously doubt the americna public would have reacted so strongly. A distant second is the fact that he killed animals for entertainment. How often do we see personal stories about athleets hunting and fishing exploits? Finaly there is the slipery slope of what constiutes cruelity. I would suggest that if Vick had used his farm property to raise veal (read about the process for your selves) Then open up a high end resturant serving his farm fresh meats many of his critics would now be waiatng for a table.

We can argure for ever about the reletive cultural vaues pertaining to the lives of Animals but in the end the "subtule and nuanced" person armed with a basic understanding of Anthropology has to conclude that these social norms are part of the culture one belongs to. The real shame here is that Vick did not understnd the implications of his hobby to the public at large and his dependenace on the American culturae at large for his position of wealth and even his freedom. This could be a lesson to other athleets who enter the public eye of professional sports and entertaiment. Check your values against the values of society at large where they are in conflict are the areas where you should tred lightly.

Before anyone blasts me for having a cavelir attitude twords dog fighting let me warn you. I have been an ethical vegitarian for over 20 years. I am revolted and appaled by any and all cruelity and senseless death. I apalud the American public for the few standards we have adopted in terms of protecting hsoe who canont protect themselves. I just don't belive that MY values the only values or even that mine are right for everyone. There was a telling moment in temrs of Americans mied emtotions about killing animals this week on the Tv shwo Kid Nation. When the Kids realized that if they wanted to eat meat they would have to kill chickens themsleves. Not all the kids wanted meat at that price but in the end even the most ardently opposed children agreed that for the communiy at large the killing was justified and the droped their objections. I dont have to approve of Vick's actions to try and understand them. This is biger than Black and White. Lots of cultures aprove of and engage in dog fighting. Peopel of all races share in the collective Americna values that say dog fighitng is curel and wrong.