Marty Mac's World: Trade Webber? Kings must have been crazy

[tresmil]

Save some of you all some time... Note that this is in contrary to what Grant has said, on his show, numerous times, about Webber being a cancer in the locker room.

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http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/14040246p-14871883c.html

Marty Mac's World: Trade Webber? Kings must have been crazy
By Martin McNeal -- Bee Sports Columnist
Published 2:15 am PST Thursday, January 5, 2006

Change has become as large a part of professional sports as the mega-dollars many athletes and owners are paid.

However, one change that did not have to be made was last season's Kings trade of power forward Chris Webber. We keep hearing and reading why Webber had to be traded. As if the man were some kind of cancer who had to be eliminated from an ailing patient.

Webber clearly is not the player he was before the June 10, 2003, surgery on his left knee. He no longer has great mobility, agility or lift. Still, Webber remains highly skilled and capable of making his teammates better.

Webber attracts attention on the court, and his ability and willingness to pass makes life a lot easier for his teammates. In fact, the passing skills of Webber - and Vlade Divac - helped make the Kings one of the league's best and most diverse offenses.

Ironically, after the team's 2004 Western Conference semifinals loss to Minnesota, one King who benefited mightily from Webber's passing - Peja Stojakovic - took some of Webber's comments as a personal attack and requested a trade.

Stojakovic says he and Webber never had a problem, but that's not true. Stojakovic's basketball personality did not mesh well with Webber's.

Teammates asked Stojakovic to play tougher and with more heart. Instead of responding positively, Stojakovic reacted adversely. This is not to suggest that there was dissension in the locker room. Webber certainly has had his moments of screaming and ranting during and after games.

However, that's part of pro sports, ladies and gents. So are unique facets of stars' personalities. While rehabbing his knee, Webber flew to Los Angeles with the team and went to dinner with his lady at the time, Tyra Banks, instead of going to the game. Also during the rehab, Webber left a game at Arco Arena early.

The dude couldn't play, so in the grand scheme of things, he could have been partying in Nairobi or Prague, for all he was worth at that point.

We also heard that Divac left the Kings because he didn't want to deal with Webber.

Garbage. Divac, then a free agent, left because the Los Angeles Lakers offered much more money than the Kings. That's pro sports, people.

"It's not true," Divac said Wednesday afternoon from Southern California regarding any influence Webber had on his departure. "I had a great relationship with Chris, and obviously my best years were with Sacramento and Webb. It was great for me to have the opportunity to play with a player like Chris.

"The main reason I left was because somehow there was a big difference in the Lakers' offer and the Kings' offer. If they had been close, I'd have stayed with Sacramento."

Anyway, the surgery has been performed, the "cancer" removed, and the patient is ailing more than ever. The Kings wanted to rid themselves of Webber's contract and believed they would be better on the floor without him. They also said it would be easier to make moves with three smaller contracts instead of his huge deal.

However, until these moves are made, that premise is just a bunch of boo-yah. Fans and observers can say what they want about Webber, but they can't say accurately the Kings are better without him than they were with him.

Get rid of the taunt
A tape screams "Whatever!" over the public-address system at Arco Arena when an opposing player makes a big play. Get rid of it. It's classless and stupid, and because the Kings give up so many easy baskets, it's heard too much.

About the writer: The Bee's Martin McNeal can be reached at mmcneal@sacbee.com.

 

[VF21]

Fans and observers can say what they want about Webber, but they can't say accurately the Kings are better without him than they were with him.

And Marty MacNeil gets it.

 

[VF21]

As far as what Grant says on his show, I have to wonder just whose hand is moving his lips. If Webber was truly a "cancer" in the locker-room, don't you think at least ONE of all the guys who passed through there over the years would have sold their story to the media to say so? Sure, current NBA players might not want to do anything to irritate the Kings, Webber or even David Stern, but there's no reason whatsoever for someone who is no longer playing the game - like Keon Clark, just to name one - to come forward and tell all to Sports Illustrated or even a writer like Ric Bucher, Marc Stein, etc.

The fact we haven't heard ANYTHING about Webber being anything other than a player whose primary goal was to win a championship and who wanted those around him to want it as badly as he did indicates to me that if I have to believe anyone, I'm gonna believe an independent source like Marty and not a talking head like Grant Napear.

 

[kingsfannPDX]

"The main reason I left was because somehow there was a big difference in the Lakers' offer and the Kings' offer. If they had been close, I'd have stayed with Sacramento."


a little off subject but damn i hate the lakers!! i guess i could be mad at vlade for being greedy or the maloofs for not offering more but it's easier to hate the lakers. vlade retiring as a king could've been so beneficial to this franchise!!

 

[Bricklayer]

That's an aggressive column.

Funny how the party line has deteriorated so badly in the last 6 months.

 

[nbrans]

I thought the party line was that the Kings needed to move on, not that they were going to be marching through the playoffs.

 

[VF21]

^The juggling act only works as long as you can keep all the plates spinning. At this point, even the guys in the very cheapest seats at the circus can hear the crashes as some of those plates fall to the ground and are shattered. Marty Mac was the beat writer before - meaning it wasn't his job to opine. It was his job to travel with the team, write the game stories, etc. He didn't have the green light to give his personal takes on things.

Now, however, Marty has begun to spread his wings and fly. He's putting the stuff out there. People can accept it or not. And interestingly enough, his stuff has the ring of truth to it. With him and Mark Kreidler in the mix, there are at least a couple of columnists who write sports stories for the Sacramento Bee whose pieces I will bother to read and really think about.

 

[Bricklayer]

I thought the party line was that the Kings needed to move on, not that they were going to be marching through the playoffs.

Oh no, party line was always we are better NOW and into the future. Party line, as they normally are, was B.S.. Just amusing to watch sports mirror politics as everybody starts crawling out feeling its safe to revisit the issue now while the party line crumbles in the face of the absurdity.

 

[hoopsfan]

"The juggling act only works as long as you can keep all the plates spinning. At this point, even the guys in the very cheapest seats at the circus can hear the crashes as some of those plates fall to the ground and are shattered."

Nice piece of writing there VF.

 

[lena423]

do i detect a hint of anger in marty's writing??
maybe he's just as fed up as i am with all the crap that has been written about webber and how "bad" he was for the kings.
truth is.... the kings are just plain bad without him...(oops did i say that out loud)

 

[G_M]

Isn't possible that the this season is more about a collective failure of the core players to do anything at all?? It's too easy and intellectually lazy to say the trade produced the current mess known as the Kings.

Adelman is a lame duck, the team plays without passion on too many occasions, and Bibby and Peja have SUCKED for most of the season. There are numerous reasons for what is currently happening with the Kings.

 

[NewMonkey]

Oh no, party line was always we are better NOW and into the future. Party line, as they normally are, was B.S.. Just amusing to watch sports mirror politics as everybody starts crawling out feeling its safe to revisit the issue now while the party line crumbles in the face of the absurdity.

The trade was a hedge against a career-ending injury which would have resulted in the Kings being on the hook for $60 million in salary. I agree on what the party line was, but the party line was transparent from day one. I still say that Webber's career could end any day, but obviously he's been reasonably healthy since the trade.

 

[Ryle]

The trade was a hedge against a career-ending injury which would have resulted in the Kings being on the hook for $60 million in salary. I agree on what the party line was, but the party line was transparent from day one. I still say that Webber's career could end any day, but obviously he's been reasonably healthy since the trade.

Well, after this year Webb's contract has about 43 million bucks. The contracts of Williamson, Skinner and Thomas will pay out about 43 million bucks by the end of their deals. Webb's ends in 2 years and Thomas' has another 4 years . Anyone of these guys could suffer a career ending injury and quite frankly if a player doesn't play about 80% of the season Insurance will pay the rest of his salary.

 

[Stojakovic]

Heh, while this article makes some decent points, I'd say it belongs where most of Voisin's articles belong - in the trash.

I don't even buy 1% of that; Vlade left the Kings just for the money. While I am sure the money was important to him, I am also sure that there was a lot of unrest in the lockerroom at that time.

 

[Venom]

A. That's pretty much how I read the situation all along. But, why the shot across the bow now? I assume there are some imminent departures. Peja is gone. Marty just openly called him a punk. Adelman may be going, and even Petrie. This article really impugns Petrie the most, or the Maloofs if they forced the trade.

B. To be fair, Marty and Webb are boys, and just got hang out with each other for the first time in probably about a year. Marty always appreciated Webber's candor and accessibility, and the current Kings only reinforce what a true franchise player Webb was. Noone in the organization will speak on this trade and admit that it was a poor idea. Not Petrie, not the Maloofs, not any of the players (maybe Bibby has). I think that rankles Marty. In his eyes his friend never got his due while he was here, and now the front office is too gutless to admit a mistake.

One of the above paragraphs is correct, or perhaps both. I don't know. If things weren't so acrimonious between the Kings and the Bee right now, I would assume that Para. A was the correct answer. But it could be that Marty has just had enough of Petrie's non-comments.

 

[KP]

-Marty was on with Koz tonight and it was pretty clear this was in response to what Grant and some others in the media haave been trying to say about this current Kings team and how the trade has affected them. Marty actually said, he didn't want to write this piece but he HAD to. He said he's been holding back for weeks now but with whats being said in the media enough was enough. He basically said that the media(Grant) have been insulting our intelligence and he's right. First Grant tried to say that Webber wouldn't be able to play with Iverson and that Billy King would be fired by feb 23rd the next year. Obviously Webber and Iverson are the highest scoring 1-2 punch in the NBA. Then he tried to say Webber wouldn't be able to play night in and night out and that his body would break down and he wouldn't be able to put up 20 and 10 anymore, again obviously wrong. Now he's trying to say Webber was a cancer in the locker room and if we were "privy" to certain inside information we would all agree Webber should have been moved. Obviously Marty was just as inside as Grant if not more so during that time, and he called him on it. Grant is grasping at straws (just like a lot of people on this board) because he just can't face the fact that Webber can still play and that without him the Kings can not. He even called in Sick today(prob right after he read Marty Macs piece ). Look, even Voisin is backpedaling at this point, she actually wrote good things about Chris Webber! That should tell you something. You'd have to be a complete moron to not see what has happened to this team in the wake of that trade.

 

[Purple Reign]

My thoughts exactly. It is funny because Marty and Grant are boys. And as soon as Grant comes back, I am sure somebody is going to call in and ask the "red headed hypocrite" what he thought about an article written by one of his boys that disputed every single thing he said about Chris Webber. Especially the part about Divac leaving because of Chris.

 

[6th]

My thoughts exactly. It is funny because Marty and Grant are boys. And as soon as Grant comes back, I am sure somebody is going to call in and ask the "red headed hypocrite" what he thought about an article written by one of his boys that disputed every single thing he said about Chris Webber. Especially the part about Divac leaving because of Chris.

My favorite part of the show is listening to Grant backpeddle. Yes, I listen to Napier and Lamb, but only because they are on in the car on my way home from work.

 

[outsider62]

Ironically, after the team's 2004 Western Conference semifinals loss to Minnesota, one King who benefited mightily from Webber's passing - Peja Stojakovic - took some of Webber's comments as a personal attack and requested a trade.

That's simply wrong. Peja had his carrear year with Web out. Divac and Doug were responsible for Peja's success much more then Webber. In the meantime Kings lost all 3 + Bobby Jackson...
The article is just a trash.

Btw, the sixers right now have pretty much the same record with Web they had with his replacements last year. CWeb is still good player, but he is not difference maker anymore and his departure is not the root of the problem. I think Brick did much better analysis, so in short, the problem is that we have pieces (players and the coach) that don't fit well toghether.

 

[mcsluggo]

Grant Napear is a decent game announcer.

Grant Napear's daily radio show is one of the worst things I have ever listened to. When I lived in the area, I often REALLY wanted to listen when I was in the car, in order to get some Kings news. But when it was on I could never pay attention, because all I could think of was that I'd rather ram rusty, salty nails into my ears than listen to that drivel. He sucks.

 

[Kingsgurl]

CWeb is still good player, but he is not difference maker anymore and his departure is not the root of the problem.

Keep telling yourself it's 'purely coincidental' that our struggles began in earnest on Feb. 23rd. if it helps you sleep better at night.

 

[Warhawk]

Both the Rise Guys and Grant have said that Vlade left because of Webber. What would you expect Vlade to say if they asked him the question? He's a professional.

Never said Webber was a cancer. There can be honest disagreements or differences without somebody being a cancer, can't there? Again, these guys spend a lot of time talking to players, etc, that never gets reported.

Rise Guys said that before Chris returned Vlade (OK, they never said his name, but said something like "a long-time respected NBA veteran no longer with the team and recently retired", or similar, you get the point) made statements similar to "Before he returned, we were having the most fun we'd ever had as a team, and afterwards it wasn't like that any more". Again, I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of their comments.

 

[Bricklayer]

Both the Rise Guys and Grant have said that Vlade left because of Webber. What would you expect Vlade to say if they asked him the question? He's a professional.

Never said Webber was a cancer. There can be honest disagreements or differences without somebody being a cancer, can't there? Again, these guys spend a lot of time talking to players, etc, that never gets reported.

Rise Guys said that before Chris returned Vlade (OK, they never said his name, but said something like "a long-time respected NBA veteran no longer with the team and recently retired", or similar, you get the point) made statements similar to "Before he returned, we were having the most fun we'd ever had as a team, and afterwards it wasn't like that any more". Again, I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of their comments.

Well that woudl certianly be an oddly unprofessional and snively little comment to make for a "professional" don't you think? Makes good fodder for classless radio boobs though.

 

[Padrino]

That's simply wrong. Peja had his carrear year with Web out. Divac and Doug were responsible for Peja's success much more then Webber. In the meantime Kings lost all 3 + Bobby Jackson...
The article is just a trash.

Btw, the sixers right now have pretty much the same record with Web they had with his replacements last year. CWeb is still good player, but he is not difference maker anymore and his departure is not the root of the problem. I think Brick did much better analysis, so in short, the problem is that we have pieces (players and the coach) that don't fit well toghether.

regardless, you've openly stated that others were directly responsible for peja's career year. as in, unless somebody is assigned to feed him the ball (webb, vlade, doug, whomever), he is nearly worthless.

and its ludicrous to say that webb is no longer a difference maker. he's putting up just under 20 pts and just over 10 rebs a game. he's at right about his career averages, and he's doing it alongside the nba's scoring leader, allen iverson. i find it hard to believe that webber made peja and mike look so much better while he was here, but is not directly affecting the ease with which iverson is scoring. that's just plain ridiculous. iverson is averaging a career high in points/game, and webb deserves a lot of credit for that.

as far as webber's departure not being the root of kings' current problem, then yeah, you're right. but it certainly didn't help to trade away the team's biggest asset in terms of star power and leadership.

 

[nbrans]

and its ludicrous to say that webb is no longer a difference maker. he's putting up just under 20 pts and just over 10 rebs a game. he's at right about his career averages, and he's doing it alongside the nba's scoring leader, allen iverson. i find it hard to believe that webber made peja and mike look so much better while he was here, but is not directly affecting the ease with which iverson is scoring. that's just plain ridiculous. iverson is averaging a career high in points/game, and webb deserves a lot of credit for that.

Webber can be a "difference maker" since there aren't a lot of 20 and 10 guys out there and Iverson definitely benefits from having an actual second fiddle for the first time in his career, but when the Sixers don't have a better record than the year before with an improved roster it kind of makes you go hmm... 20 and 10 is great, but he's also a big part of the reason the Sixers are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

He may still be a difference maker on the offensive side and on the glass, but so far he hasn't made a difference in the Sixers' won/loss record.

 

[bigbadred00]

That's simply wrong. Peja had his carrear year with Web out. Divac and Doug were responsible for Peja's success much more then Webber. In the meantime Kings lost all 3 + Bobby Jackson...
The article is just a trash.

Btw, the sixers right now have pretty much the same record with Web they had with his replacements last year. CWeb is still good player, but he is not difference maker anymore and his departure is not the root of the problem. I think Brick did much better analysis, so in short, the problem is that we have pieces (players and the coach) that don't fit well toghether.

Looks like Philly has a better record than us this year. And it's easy to see Webber has played pretty well this year. Last year they were about the same after the trade as us (which was much better than they were before the trade). They were 26-29 before the trade last year and 17 and 10 after the trade (looks like a huge difference to me in %s). And they seem to be getting a lot more value from Webber and his 18 million than we are with 3 parts that play in "moderation" to say the least (until the injury to SAR).

Philly has also had injuries and they do have a new coach. I think they are better off than they were before the trade (easily seen by the record). They might not be worlds better off, they might not play D, but neither do the Kings right now. Nothing changed with our D since the trade and it might be even worse than it was with him in the lineup.

 

[Padrino]

Webber can be a "difference maker" since there aren't a lot of 20 and 10 guys out there and Iverson definitely benefits from having an actual second fiddle for the first time in his career, but when the Sixers don't have a better record than the year before with an improved roster it kind of makes you go hmm... 20 and 10 is great, but he's a big part of the reason the Sixers are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

He may still be a difference maker on the offensive side and on the glass, but so far he hasn't made a difference in the Sixers' won/loss record.

considering the sixers are a game above .500 in the better conference, and the kings are nearing basement-level status in the weaker conference, i'm willing to give webber the benefit of the doubt. and it's not about iverson having an actual "second-fiddle." you could stick a lotta stars next to iverson, and many would just clash with his style of play. webber is actually able to make iverson better than he already is. that's the kind of difference maker i'm talking about. a guy who has a positive and undeniable impact on the way a team plays and the attitude a team displays.

the sixers are constructed properly, they just haven't quite put it all together yet. webber and korver are both defensive weaknesses, but iverson, dalembert, and iguodala are all better-than-average defenders. the offense is there, and there is compensation to be had for defensive weakness (unlike the kings starting unit). like the kings, though, the sixers also have a sparse bench. they're not a perfect team, but i like the style and construction of their starting five, with webber, much more than i like the style and construction of the kings starting five, without webber.

 

[nbrans]

My original post met an unfortunate and grisly demise, but I basically said:

1. Don't think you can ignore Philly's win/loss record
2. There are plenty of reasons the Kings suck besides not having Webber
3. C-Webb's defense sucks
4. Can't win many games with a gaping hole on defense
5. People overstate Webber's current effectivenss
6. Some words of unmatched genius that will forever be lost in the sands of time. You'll just have to take my word for it.

 

[Bricklayer]

As the Kings can currently attest, I don't think you can have a gaping hole on your interior defense and hope to win a lot of games.

And yet oddly, we were doing just that with both Webb AND Brad paired together on the front line.

Please don't get me wrong, I like Chris Webber, but I think that the Webber fans on this board oversate his current effectiveness. Points are great, boards are great, wins are better.

Odd how all three of those categories seem to follow #4 around.

Given that we won 50 last year, and are on pace to win 30 or so this year, think I'll take my points, boards AND wins thank you.

 

[LA King Fan II]

I have to interject this. I am not a Webber hater, and rooted very hard for him during his stay in Sacto. His good far outweighed his bad - but there was some bad (i.e periodic loafing and obsession with referee calls). At his best he was a great players and very much the key part of the Kings when they were at their best.

However, when he was still with the Kings last year, IMO they had ZERO chance to win a title. Zero. They certainly were better off with him than now, though. The Kings needed to improve then in the same areas that we still talk to death. Webber was a liability on defense and in speed. His inside game was negligible which left us a jump shooting team reliant on 20 footers. Sound familiar? We needed help.

Petrie did not get help. It was an awful awful trade. Still, they had no chance of winning a title last year and it was time to do something smart. I said something smart. Not webber for corliss, kt and skinner. Geez.