Marty Mac: Kings' problem isn't what you might think

[VF21]

http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/246086.html

Marty Mac's World: Kings' problem isn't what you might think
By Martin McNeal - Bee Staff Writer
Published 12:00 am PDT Thursday, June 28, 2007
Story appeared in SPORTS section, Page C2

The NBA draft goes off tonight in New York and provides a major opportunity for the Kings to begin what they hope will be an effective makeover to redirect them toward realistic Western Conference playoff contention. Currently, the No. 10 overall draft choice is the Kings' lone draft chip to get it done.

However, the other prevailing thought around these parts is the Kings will trade Ron Artest and/or Mike Bibby before the 2007-08 season. That thought hasn't been conveyed by Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie, nor will it unless a trade materializes.

I've said Artest and Bibby aren't particularly enamored of each other's playing style. So a trade might seem to make sense.

But both players are proud, talented athletes with a lot of heart. Those commodities, especially heart, are hard to find. So, unless Petrie finds a reasonable facsimile of their skills, it might be best, under the new leadership of coach Reggie Theus, to tell these two guys, "Work it out."

Having Artest and Bibby on the squad is not the Kings' problem. It's having Brad Miller. It's having to pay Miller $34.1 million in the next few years. It's Miller playing at a ridiculously subpar level over the past few years. Unlike with Artest and Bibby, there probably are few, other than Miller, who truly know if he gives a blip about playing basketball.

It's unrealistic to ask Miller to do things he's incapable of doing. However, it's very fair to ask him to do, at least, the things he did to warrant that $34.1 million.

If the organization doesn't believe he can or is dedicated to doing so, he's the first guy who must go. Where to trade Miller is the obstacle. Yet players who have been deemed untradeable often are dealt, so again, the message might become, "Work it out."


No. 1? It's a no-brainer

If the Portland Trail Blazers don't take Ohio State center Greg Oden with the No. 1 overall pick, then their organization has lost its mind. No disrespect to Texas' Kevin Durant, but give me the prospect of Oden in the middle for the next 10 years. Immediately, every Trail Blazer becomes better defensively. And at age 19, Oden is a tremendous athlete, runs like a deer and uses both hands.


Trading Stoudemire and/or Marion -- whoa!

Clearly, those of us outside Phoenix are missing something. If not, why would the Suns even consider trading Amare Stoudemire, who will turn 25 on Nov. 16, for Kevin Garnett, 31? Man, that's giving up six years for a guy who I'm not sure is better than what you already have.

I know Garnett gets 20 points, 10 rebounds and four assists a night, but Phoenix's Shawn Marion, who also has been mentioned as trade bait for Garnett, has very similar stats.

A few weeks ago, the Suns came home tied 2-2 in a seven-game series with the Spurs, who went on to win their fourth title in nine seasons. Freak circumstances, such as the one-game suspensions given to Stoudemire and teammate Boris Diaw, might have been more influential in that series' outcome than anything else.

About the writer: The Bee's Martin McNeal can be reached at mmcneal@sacbee.com.

 

[jimbodan]

I definitely agree with him on Miller. In my opinion the Kings biggest three problems are in this order:

1. Kenny Thomas/SAR
2. Brad Miller
3. Mike Bibby

I don't think the Kings can get much better and truly start the re-build until at least 2 of those 3 issues are addressed.

 

[hanchiho]

I definitely agree with him on Miller. In my opinion the Kings biggest three problems are in this order:

1. Kenny Thomas/SAR
2. Brad Miller
3. Mike Bibby

I don't think the Kings can get much better and truly start the re-build until at least 2 of those 3 issues are addressed.

Kenny Thomas is a turn-over machine!

 

[Gary]

Wow.. SAR isn't a problem.. He is relitively cheap for what we get. A spot starter 6th-7th man that avg 9-10pts, and 5-6rbds. If he can do that in 20-25 mins off the bench I will be OK with it. He is a low post scorer which is somethign the Kings don't have atm. So SAR isn't that big of a problem.

#1 problem is KT.. He is not a starter, not a bench player. He's nothing. He needs to just go home.

#2 problem is Artest. Artest is just a punk. He causes distractions, problems in the locker room, hogs the ball because he thinks the other Kings cant score.

#3 problem is Brad Miller. He can be OK and is better at this point than 65% of the starting centers out there. I think if we are winning his game will step up. If we are losing he will look bad.

 

[PFFFT!!]

I definitely agree with him on Miller. In my opinion the Kings biggest three problems are in this order:

1. Kenny Thomas/SAR
2. Brad Miller
3. Mike Bibby

I don't think the Kings can get much better and truly start the re-build until at least 2 of those 3 issues are addressed.

I agree with your list. Unfortunately, Miller is considering dead weight loss at this point and will be hard to trade. Charlotte is actively looking for a Center to fill that void for the 8th pick. I don't see that happening though considering there are more mobile 7 footers available at that pick. Perhaps the #22 pick with a throw in would be ok.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Let's focus on problems we do have control over. Our problem is we don't need Bibby and Artest and we need to get good rebuilding pieces for them.

 

[Bibby_10]

Its too bad bball players cant get fired for not performing their job.

 

[Bibby_10]

Wow.. SAR isn't a problem.. He is relitively cheap for what we get. A spot starter 6th-7th man that avg 9-10pts, and 5-6rbds. If he can do that in 20-25 mins off the bench I will be OK with it. He is a low post scorer which is somethign the Kings don't have atm. So SAR isn't that big of a problem.

#1 problem is KT.. He is not a starter, not a bench player. He's nothing. He needs to just go home.

#2 problem is Artest. Artest is just a punk. He causes distractions, problems in the locker room, hogs the ball because he thinks the other Kings cant score.

#3 problem is Brad Miller. He can be OK and is better at this point than 65% of the starting centers out there. I think if we are winning his game will step up. If we are losing he will look bad.

Are you serious? Artest is a more serious problem than Brad? Lets see Artest makes way less and actually gives a sh*t about the game. He is a nut no doubt but at least he plays to win and not just to collect a paycheck.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

It's Miller playing at a ridiculously subpar level over the past few years.

I thought I would throw a Stat out there:

Player +/- Year
Miller +86 2006/2007
Thomas -180 2006/2007
Miller +228 2005/2006
Thomas -37 2005/2006
Miller +196 2004/2005
Thomas 0 2004/2005

Brad Miller has led the Kings in +/- all four years he has been here. He must have been doing something right that whole time. So to target Miller when Kenny Thomas is still on the team, is insulting. My .02 cents.

 

[fnordius]

Wow... how do you take "the Kings are weak at the #5 spot" and turn it into a full-page expose? I thought that was kind of old news by the time Bonzi became our "big."

 

[nbrans]

Brad had a bad year, he seems weaker and slower every year etc., but he's the only player on the entire team who makes his teammates better, and that counts for something.

 

[VF21]

Brad makes his teammates better or he makes them LOOK better?

Sorry, I really like Brad Miller but I sure haven't been very impressed with what I've seen over the past couple of years. That's an awful lot of money to be paying to hope someone might return to the best shape they were ever in, especially when that shape wouldn't meet our current needs.

 

[VF21]

I thought I would throw a Stat out there:

Player +/- Year
Miller +86 2006/2007
Thomas -180 2006/2007
Miller +228 2005/2006
Thomas -37 2005/2006
Miller +196 2004/2005
Thomas 0 2004/2005

Brad Miller has led the Kings in +/- all four years he has been here. He must have been doing something right that whole time. So to target Miller when Kenny Thomas is still on the team, is insulting. My .02 cents.

You can use stats to prove just about anything. I won't argue that Thomas is infinitely worse, but Brad Miller didn't do much this year at all, regardless of the stats.

I would like to know what those numbers mean, however, and where you got them...

 

[G_M]

I've lost all respect for Miller.

I recall he was on with Grant and Mike last year. it was during a stretch where he was having a particulary rough stretch of games. I'm paraphrasing but what he said was that he was looking forward to retirement so he could do the things that he really wanted to do. He said he was tired of dealing with the media and the B.S. and just wanted to get away from the game. It came across very poorly especially given the amount of money he makes.

It explains why he seems to lack any offseason conditioning program unless you count Turkey hunting.

 

[jimbodan]

Wow.. SAR isn't a problem.. He is relitively cheap for what we get. A spot starter 6th-7th man that avg 9-10pts, and 5-6rbds. If he can do that in 20-25 mins off the bench I will be OK with it. He is a low post scorer which is somethign the Kings don't have atm. So SAR isn't that big of a problem.

That's exactly the problem though, SAR is a good 6-7th man or an emergency starter like you said, but on this team he is better then KT and should start over him. That makes SAR our starting PF, that is not a good thing and imo a major issue.

 

[allrightythen]

Is it really a big surprise that someone gets tired of their job? I'm not defending Brad cause he shouldn't say those things in front of the media but just keep them to himself, but he is human and basketball is not his passion, its his profession. I wish he wanted it more, but he doesn't. I'm not going to wish ill on him for that cause there are a lot of days I don't like my job either. I don't think there is any evidence on the court that Brad doesn't give it his all.

 

[VF21]

I'm not gonna dump on Miller but I definitely can see where McNeal is coming from. If we're going young and hungry, we don't need Miller any more than we need Kenny Thomas. If we let Corliss go - and we don't know yet if he (and his great attitude, heart and locker room presence) will be back - the idea of keeping Miller around just doesn't feel right.

He's a nice guy, from what I've seen, but I don't see him as the center of the future. He has a negative vertical, takes longer to get to the other end of the court than Bozo the one-legged monkey and just doesn't seem that competitive any longer.

Thanks for all you've done, Brad, but I won't be shedding tears if you leave.

 

[quick dog]

Miller has been a nightmare to watch for years. He appears to be lazy, stupid, or both. He appears to have a classic GAF attitude.

 

[VF21]

Can we manage to get through this thread without resorting to personal insults about the players?

PLEASE???????

 

[allrightythen]

I'm not gonna dump on Miller but I definitely can see where McNeal is coming from. If we're going young and hungry, we don't need Miller any more than we need Kenny Thomas. If we let Corliss go - and we don't know yet if he (and his great attitude, heart and locker room presence) will be back - the idea of keeping Miller around just doesn't feel right.

He's a nice guy, from what I've seen, but I don't see him as the center of the future. He has a negative vertical, takes longer to get to the other end of the court than Bozo the one-legged monkey and just doesn't seem that competitive any longer.

Thanks for all you've done, Brad, but I won't be shedding tears if you leave.

Very well said. If we really are going young as has been hinted at, Corliss is definitely the type of veteran presence I'd want in the locker room. Come to think of it it doesn't matter what your team looks like, its always good to have guys like Corliss on the roster.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

You can use stats to prove just about anything. I won't argue that Thomas is infinitely worse, but Brad Miller didn't do much this year at all, regardless of the stats.

I would like to know what those numbers mean, however, and where you got them...

You can look them up on 82Games
http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAC14D.HTM
The definition of the +/- stat is what was the difference in score when said player was on the floor. So for this season when Brad was on the floor the Kings scored [SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]3825 points and gave up [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]3739. Hence the + 86.
To contrast when Kenny was on the floor we scored 2859 and gave up 3039.

Now granted he had a terrible year last year, I would just hate to see us make the same mistake we made with Webber again. (Not that Brad is in the same universe as Webb, just the situations are similar.) He is already through 4/7 of his contract, why not wait 2 years and then we have a trading piece like Boston does with Theo's contract. Lastly if we ask him to come off the bench, he won't pout like Kenny did in the 05/06 season.

To conclude, I take issue with the premise that the way to fix our team is to trade our only center and been the player with the highest +/- on the team. Unless your goal is Derrick Rose next summer, but Marty did not say that.
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[VF21]

Ah, okay. But the difference when Brad wasn't on the floor was because we had Corliss or SAR or even Ron playing at the 5, right? So I think that stat is really misleading. And does it say how many points the OTHER team scored when he was on/off the court?

It's probably all just talking about cloud shapes anyway. Nobody is gonna grab Miller, partially because of his contract and partially because of his recent lack of production. All things considered, however, if I had to choose between Bibby, Artest and Miller to trade, I'd think long and hard about trading Miller for the very reasons Marty has outlined.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

Ah, okay. But the difference when Brad wasn't on the floor was because we had Corliss or SAR or even Ron playing at the 5, right? So I think that stat is really misleading. And does it say how many points the OTHER team scored when he was on/off the court?

When Brad was not on the court last year we scored 4480 and we let the opponents score 4710 a -230. In fact the Kings have not had a positive point total without him on the floor in the four years he has been here.
03/04 -89
04/05 -27
05/06 -104
06/07 -230

I think a misleading statistic would be Mo' Taylor's +28 from last season. I would hate to see him trade for flexible pieces package ie. Malik Rose+ Jared Jeffries+Nate Robinson. Also rarely do teams trade players of the same position, unless its a special case like Artest for Peja. So I don't see how we could improve our center spot, by trading our only center.

 

[Bricklayer]

So I don't see how we could improve our center spot, by trading our only center.

We can imporve our center positon by simply liquidating our center position. Or more specifically the contract attached to our center position. And felxible pieces will likely be fine for a Brad Miller level character on teh downside. Just have to actually be flexible, preferably wiht an ender or two thrown in. Maybe a middling drat pick somewhere.