Marcos Breton article

#1
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/85284.html

Marcos Bretón: McGwire in Hall? Forget it



By Marcos Bretón - Bee Sports Columnist
Published 12:00 am PST Thursday, November 30, 2006

Mark McGwire does not belong in the National Baseball Hall of Fame.
Not now. Not five years from now. Not ever.

The guy did steroids. Everybody knows it. Like all 'roid users, McGwire lied about it until he walked into a congressional committee hearing and took an oath on the Bible.

Then suddenly, he "didn't want to talk about the past."
Why not repeat his denials under oath?

Because it would have been potentially punishable by a contempt charge, and McGwire obviously didn't want to take that chance.

His filibustering was a passive-aggressive admission of guilt, the ultimate nondenial denial.

And now McGwire's candidacy for the Hall of Fame this winter opens up a sordid can of worms that could rewrite the rules at Cooperstown.
That's why the big lug is getting so much attention now.

Because McGwire's candidacy is the first test for baseball writers to do what baseball couldn't or wouldn't: To hold steroid cheaters accountable for their sins.

This is how you do it, by denying them the ultimate validation for using performance-enhancing drugs that distorted their numbers.
This is key because numbers are what have always gotten players into Cooperstown -- 500 home runs, 3,000 hits, 300 victories for a pitcher.

Numbers are critical because McGwire isn't going to get in with his paltry .263 career batting average or for never hitting .300 in any full season.

He's not going to get in for being a good but not great first baseman or for his 1,626 career hits, which are only a couple of hundred more than Rich Aurilia has. And he's not getting in for hitting .217 in 10 postseason series.

It's McGwire's 583 career home runs, the seventh-most in baseball history, that gets him in the Hall of Fame conversation and why he doesn't belong.

McGwire was a one-trick Clydesdale whose sole claim to fame -- his power numbers -- are tainted to the point of being fraudulent.

Take away the juice, and Mc-Gwire's accomplishments are as steady as a house of cards.

Barry Bonds is a much tougher argument. The documented evidence points to Bonds using steroids after the 1998 season -- when McGwire hit 70 home runs.

By 1998, Bonds had 411 home runs and 445 stolen bases -- the only player in baseball to accomplish such a remarkable double.

Consequently, Bonds already was a Hall of Famer, the most dominant player of his generation.

Some will say that the Hall is full of drunks, racists and low-brow cheaters like Gaylord Perry.

They'll use that excuse to let in McGwire or to confuse the issue by putting Bonds in the creep category.

He is -- but he had the numbers. So did Ty Cobb the sociopath. And Mickey Mantle the drunk. And Joe DiMaggio, who redefined weird.
And what of Perry? I'm sorry, but you can't compare trickery to altering your body chemistry to bolster your numbers.

'Roids make your body recover faster from exertion. Perry had to haul his lard butt onto the field to get guys out.

The only other argument for McGwire is based in cynicism: That baseball turned a blind eye to steroids when McGwire played.
True. But our eyes are open now.

The lid was blown by journalists, primarily by Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams. They wrote "Game of Shadows," the book that exposed Bonds' use of steroids made by the infamous Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative.

Now it's in the hands of journalists to render an appropriate final judgment on McGwire.

It's a tough call, and people are struggling with the McGwire dilemma. Some writers think people like me are falsely moralizing this issue when McGwire's numbers should tell the tale. Some -- like the Oakland Tribune's Art Spander, one of the senior baseball writers in Northern California -- probably won't vote for McGwire this year but might in the future.

Maybe I'll feel remorse for Mc-Gwire in the future, maybe not.
I don't have a vote now, but I imagine McGwire will still be there in a couple of years when I do.

He'll be followed by Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa and Bonds.
It's the steroid era, baby. Time to face up to it and vote accordingly.
 
#2
As I have discussed before in this forum, the type of opinion above frightens and disturbs me. I have discussed this in relation to Bonds before. Now the issue is Mac.

Breton does not know what he is talking about IMHO. He does not know for sure who took steroids or when, any more than he knows who took 'greenies' in the 60's or what NFL hall famers were chemically aided in one for or another.

More importantly though, nobody has ever come close to demonstrating that taking steroids improves HR production.

I do not want to get into a big, ugly, internet argument over this issue again. However, I think that when people like Breton write articles like this, it does a huge disservice to the issue.

If you are interested in this topic and other related issues I point you to the following paper:

http://www.arthurdevany.com/webstuff/images/DeVanyHomeRunMS.pdf

This is a much more informed and critical analysis of home run hitting in the past 40 years. It may also changed the way you conceptualize extreme human performance.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#3
Since MLB didn't test for steroids nobody can say for sure. I am not sure if McGwire belongs in the hall, I always liked him but he was a pretty one dimensional player even if that one dimension was the one fans seem to love the most. Barry on the other hand HAS to be in when he becomes eligible.
 
#5
I agree with you kupman. I can't how 'holier than thou' sportswriters have gotten to where they can judge people without proof. Everyone assumes most players were taking steriods but if you can't prove it, you can't punish for it. And fortunately thats not how the rest of the country works. But the media gets all the attention and basically can dictate how people think, and so if a writer says he thinks something, the people who read or listen to that person believe what he says because they think there most be some knowledge behind it that we are missing. Unfortunately most media people hate Bonds because he doesn't play by their rules. It's sad really.

Do I think that Mark took supplements... yes. Was it morally wrong? Yes. But this is baseball, a game, and if the rules say I can take andro, and it'll help my team win some games, I don't see how that is so bad to exclude a man from hall of fame consideration.

Now on the other hand, I don't think Mark has the numbers to be a hall of famer... but that's besides the point.

Without proof, who are we to judge?
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#6
I agree with you kupman. I can't how 'holier than thou' sportswriters have gotten to where they can judge people without proof. Everyone assumes most players were taking steriods but if you can't prove it, you can't punish for it. And fortunately thats not how the rest of the country works. But the media gets all the attention and basically can dictate how people think, and so if a writer says he thinks something, the people who read or listen to that person believe what he says because they think there most be some knowledge behind it that we are missing. Unfortunately most media people hate Bonds because he doesn't play by their rules. It's sad really.

Do I think that Mark took supplements... yes. Was it morally wrong? Yes. But this is baseball, a game, and if the rules say I can take andro, and it'll help my team win some games, I don't see how that is so bad to exclude a man from hall of fame consideration.

Now on the other hand, I don't think Mark has the numbers to be a hall of famer... but that's besides the point.

Without proof, who are we to judge?

Highlighted above:

JSin therin for me is the whole point. Steroids don't need to enter into it at all. Mark did NOTHING else. His average, his defensive play, his post season play...nothing else is even worthy for consideration. No way I would put Mark in the Hall. He does not deserve it anyway.
 
#7
For those that do not believe that Mac belongs in the HOF becuase of his numbers: I am understand your point; I may not agree, but your opinion is fair.

Andro being a streriod: That is just a false statement. It is clearly a supplement - not a steriod. This is not my opinion, rather a statement of fact. There is a big and a clear difference between steriods and supplements. Furthermore, if you take a look at the research data, there is no evidence that Andro has significant effect upon strength or performance.

If anyone is interested please read the article I linked at the top. It is really an eye opener. Not light reading mind you, but very interesting.