Maloofs in the Bee-We don't have the right group(paraphrasing)

B

BMiller52

All-Star
ALL-STAR WEEKEND: JOE MALOOF ON THE KINGS

Oh yeah, “real” basketball
With six days left before the trading deadline, there were rumors flying recently that the Kings and Clippers had revisited talks involving Ron Artest and Corey Maggette, but Kings co-owner Joe Maloof said that wasn’t the case. The Kings simply wanted more the first time around, so any possible deal would have to be significantly sweetened.
Joe elaborated on his outlook not only on the trade deadline but the team as a whole. Not much setup needed, so interpret as you will.
On the overall approach to shaking up the roster:
“Where we don’t want to get caught is being a team that brings in the seven, six million dollar players who might help you get to the playoffs, but they’re not going to help you win a title. … Then what happens? You start overloading the payroll, you’re competing in the middle of the pack but you really don’t have a chance to win a title. We’ve always said that we wanted to win a title.
“We’re going to have to make some decisions. We’ve got to feel comfortable in our minds that, going forward, we have the right group of players. Right now, it doesn’t look like it. Things have to improve. We have to really take a hard look at what our future is. I mean it didn’t work with (Mike) Bibby, Peja (Stojakovic), and Brad (Miller), right? OK, so is it working now? Not really, so we’ll have to analyze it. That’s how I look at it.”
On the close losses:
“If you’re a salesman and you go into an account, the first thing you want to do is to close the sale. We haven’t been able to do it, and I don’t understand why. That’s what we have to get better at it.”
Any explanations?
“Maybe more experience,” he said, not clarifying any further. “We’ve been up 20 or so points and then we lose them. Something’s not right. Something’s not right.”
In general, there was a sense that nothing was imminent at the moment, with Maloof saying he hadn’t spoken to Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie in nearly a week. Then again, as he noted, things can heat up pretty quick as the deadline nears. Petrie arrives in town Friday night.
--Sam Amick
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http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/
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Interesting, I REALLY HOPE this means we're about to make some major moves. I mean we aren't winning the title with this group, or a group close to it. The players don't compliment eachother, the coach is mediocre-bad, we have no real big men. Shake this thing up already!
 
BMiller52 said:
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/
---------------------------------------------------------------


Interesting, I REALLY HOPE this means we're about to make some major moves. I mean we aren't winning the title with this group, or a group close to it. The players don't compliment eachother, the coach is mediocre-bad, we have no real big men. Shake this thing up already!
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I take this as a cautious good omen, but I'm not going to get excited until I see action.

At least we know they are trying - both Bibby and Artest are being discussed at least based on what we've been hearing recently....
 
They were all over NBA-TV today. They got asked about the Bibby situation a couple of times on a couple of different shows. They didn't say much of anything but the look on their faces said a lot. Like they are trying to move on.

They were also on NBA radio on Sirius and told Rick Barry that they loved having his son John on the team and Gavin said they tried to get Brent two years ago.
 
SacTownKid said:
They were all over NBA-TV today. They got asked about the Bibby situation a couple of times on a couple of different shows. They didn't say much of anything but the look on their faces said a lot. Like they are trying to move on.
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So what did they say? Just curious.
 
chelle said:
So what did they say? Just curious.
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Just that they hadn't talked to Petrie, and how they leave all that stuff up to Petrie, pretty much what this article said. But when the topic of the Bibby rumors came up Joe got this look on his face like his puppy had been run over.
 
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So if the Maloofs want to rebuild, and the fans want to rebuild, and the Arco Janitor wants to rebuild, all that's left is Petrie wanting to rebuild.
 
“Where we don’t want to get caught is being a team that brings in the seven, six million dollar players who might help you get to the playoffs, but they’re not going to help you win a title. … Then what happens? You start overloading the payroll, you’re competing in the middle of the pack but you really don’t have a chance to win a title. We’ve always said that we wanted to win a title.
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Sounds like a non-patchjob to me...
 
Yeah! Maybe they're finally getting it!

Now we can go back to just blaming Petrie for the King's roster ills! :p
 
Either way, its a more encouraging note than has been sounded in some time. But who knows at this point. Its not even clear where in the pipeline the holdup is, what is the source of the holdup, what is the proposed solution, whether this is a new or old attitude, and whether even in a best case scenario there are the deals we need available out there. Nothing to do but wait.
 
HighFlyingMonkey said:
So if the Maloofs want to rebuild, and the fans want to rebuild, and the Arco Janitor wants to rebuild, all that's left is Petrie wanting to rebuild.
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I think the hold up is with the Hot Dog Vendors. Hopefully, they'll come around soon. Petrie, please...

BLOW UP THE CLOWN........AND THE COACH!! :p
 
trading bibby won't be enough. they're going to have to trade artest as well if they want a real rebuilding mode, i'd prefer that trade at the deadline but i guess i'd be ok with it in the offseason even though it would so much more sense to do it now because we need to put a lot of the focus onto this draft.
 
Vlade4GM said:
trading bibby won't be enough. they're going to have to trade artest as well if they want a real rebuilding mode, i'd prefer that trade at the deadline but i guess i'd be ok with it in the offseason even though it would so much more sense to do it now because we need to put a lot of the focus onto this draft.
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Actually no. Till a few weeks back, I was in favour of trading Artest. However, he seems to have got his head in control (at least for now), and is playing quite well.

If Artest keeps his head, you don't want to trade him. He is the closest to a star that we have, and plays much less money than he would based on talent alone. We have him for another year at a bargain. Why should we trade him? We need some vets around, rather than handing over the keys to the kids, which usually doesn't do much good.

There are other big contracts that we should trade (read KT). Of course, pulling that off shall be a minor miracle. More likely, we are stuck with them for a while.
 
kingsfan101 said:
Actually no. Till a few weeks back, I was in favour of trading Artest. However, he seems to have got his head in control (at least for now), and is playing quite well.

If Artest keeps his head, you don't want to trade him. He is the closest to a star that we have, and plays much less money than he would based on talent alone. We have him for another year at a bargain. Why should we trade him? We need some vets around, rather than handing over the keys to the kids, which usually doesn't do much good.

There are other big contracts that we should trade (read KT). Of course, pulling that off shall be a minor miracle. More likely, we are stuck with them for a while.
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the way he's playing has absolutely NOTHING to do with it and shouldn't have anything to do with it. are you trying to tell me that we shouldn't sell him now that his stock is high? should we trade him when his stock is low? it's simple stock market fundamentals. the truth is ron artest will opt out after next year unless he gets an extension from us and ron is not a guy you rebuild a team around. he's not that young and he doesn't have the character for it imo. he's not in the point of his career where he'd want to babysit a bunch of kids on the court. by the time we get any talent around him (and mind you if we keep him we'll lose draft position) how effective do you think he will still be? how mentally stable do you think he'll be? the longer he stays the more you risk him randomly blowing up (not saying i necessarily believe he will) and killing his trade value. better to make a move too early than too late. bibby alone is not enough, bibby alone is just a salary dump to get someone else in the offseason. you keep martin and everyone else is available for the right deal.

more patchwork (like you're suggesting) means more mediocrity like the last three seasons.
 
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Vlade4GM said:
the way he's playing has absolutely NOTHING to do with it and shouldn't have anything to do with it. are you trying to tell me that we shouldn't sell him now that his stock is high? should we trade him when his stock is low? it's simple stock market fundamentals. the truth is ron artest will opt out after next year unless he gets an extension from us and ron is not a guy you rebuild a team around. he's not that young and he doesn't have the character for it imo. he's not in the point of his career where he'd want to babysit a bunch of kids on the court. by the time we get any talent around him (and mind you if we keep him we'll lose draft position) how effective do you think he will still be? how mentally stable do you think he'll be? the longer he stays the more you risk him randomly blowing up (not saying i necessarily believe he will) and killing his trade value. better to make a move too early than too late. bibby alone is not enough, bibby alone is just a salary dump to get someone else in the offseason. you keep martin and everyone else is available for the right deal.

more patchwork (like you're suggesting) means more mediocrity like the last three seasons.
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I too don't think that you should build a team around him. In fact, once he opts out (fairly certain that he shall), not sure if we should re-sign him. Question is, whom should we build around though?

Given his temperament and history, we are never going to get equal value for Artest (based on talent alone. If Petrie is able to pull it off though, more power to him). We are not going to get a young stud for any of our guys. Don't have money to spend in free agency for several years.

Thus, the only way to get a franchise level player is via draft. Right now, we don't suck bad enough to get one (unless we get very lucky). I also believe that some other teams are much more determined and "competent" than us to land a higher pick, even if we trade Artest.

We have him only for one more year. Hence, he is relatively low risk. If he doesn't blow up, we can trade him next year, or do a S&T once he opts out, and wants to play for a contender and/or higher money. We do carry the risk of his value going down due to attitude or injury, or losing him for nothing via free-agency. Given his play for a relatively low price, I think he is worth the risk.

Again, I am not saying that we should not trade him, or build around him. I do believe though, that given the length and size of his contract, coupled with his strong play, it is pointless to trade him for pennies on the dollar, which is often what trades for him at this point shall get.
 
kingsfan101 said:
I too don't think that you should build a team around him. In fact, once he opts out (fairly certain that he shall), not sure if we should re-sign him. Question is, whom should we build around though?

Given his temperament and history, we are never going to get equal value for Artest (based on talent alone. If Petrie is able to pull it off though, more power to him). We are not going to get a young stud for any of our guys. Don't have money to spend in free agency for several years.

Thus, the only way to get a franchise level player is via draft. Right now, we don't suck bad enough to get one (unless we get very lucky). I also believe that some other teams are much more determined and "competent" than us to land a higher pick, even if we trade Artest.

We have him only for one more year. Hence, he is relatively low risk. If he doesn't blow up, we can trade him next year, or do a S&T once he opts out, and wants to play for a contender and/or higher money. We do carry the risk of his value going down due to attitude or injury, or losing him for nothing via free-agency. Given his play for a relatively low price, I think he is worth the risk.

Again, I am not saying that we should not trade him, or build around him. I do believe though, that given the length and size of his contract, coupled with his strong play, it is pointless to trade him for pennies on the dollar, which is often what trades for him at this point shall get.
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i see no reason to believe that his stock would get any higher than it is right now. as time goes so does the time left on his deal, his good play right now, if he's labeled as available i'm sure a lot of teams will offer more than "pennies on the dollar". i don't get the stinginess on how it has to be equal value, we're never going to get equal value for him, but we can get value we need more than him and that's youth, cap space, and draft picks. i think the timing of the deal is more important than getting the peak value of return for him. why argue over pennies? it's a completely unnecessary risk to wait.

who will we build around? well it shouldn't be artest, not likely to be anyone available in free agency that we can afford, not likely to be any player we receive in a trade. so that leaves the draft in my eyes, while it's never a surefire way to get a franchise player, from where i'm sitting it's looking like the only realistic way. if we trade artest and bibby we should then probably get a better draft position and maybe we'll be high enough to be at least in a position where we can get a lucky or grab a good complementary piece at then try our luck again in the '08 (which is another blockbuster). rebuilding isn't easy and it's never a guaruntee of greatness, but it's our best shot at it imo. if we're in the position of getting high draft picks over the next couple of years we'd be in a better position to build for contention than we would being mediocre with more patchwork. this is our only shot back at the top, and while it's understood we still have to pull it off and play it smart, that's the case with whatever path we take. so why not this one?
 
kingsfan101 said:
Actually no. Till a few weeks back, I was in favour of trading Artest. However, he seems to have got his head in control (at least for now), and is playing quite well.

If Artest keeps his head, you don't want to trade him. He is the closest to a star that we have, and plays much less money than he would based on talent alone. We have him for another year at a bargain. Why should we trade him? We need some vets around, rather than handing over the keys to the kids, which usually doesn't do much good.
Click to expand...

The problem with that line of reasoning is that if and when Artest blows up, then you can't trade him. The time to trade Artest is when he's playing well and not acting up on the court. Buy low, sell high. Now is the time to sell.
 
Vlade4GM said:
the way he's playing has absolutely NOTHING to do with it and shouldn't have anything to do with it. are you trying to tell me that we shouldn't sell him now that his stock is high? should we trade him when his stock is low? it's simple stock market fundamentals. the truth is ron artest will opt out after next year unless he gets an extension from us and ron is not a guy you rebuild a team around. he's not that young and he doesn't have the character for it imo. he's not in the point of his career where he'd want to babysit a bunch of kids on the court. by the time we get any talent around him (and mind you if we keep him we'll lose draft position) how effective do you think he will still be? how mentally stable do you think he'll be? the longer he stays the more you risk him randomly blowing up (not saying i necessarily believe he will) and killing his trade value. better to make a move too early than too late. bibby alone is not enough, bibby alone is just a salary dump to get someone else in the offseason. you keep martin and everyone else is available for the right deal.

more patchwork (like you're suggesting) means more mediocrity like the last three seasons.
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Everything you write above is right on the button. Now if only Petrie can find the guts to cut the cord....
 
Code: 
Everything you write above is right on the button. Now if only Petrie can find the guts to cut the cord....
In terms of Artest, Petrie may not have the power to do so. When the Maggette rumors were out earlier in the season, some of the scuttlebutt was that the owners were unwilling to move him. What the true story is/was don't have a clue.
 
Ron's playing very very well, in th midst of an ugly losing season -- the exact situation it was assumed he could not tolerate. You have to be careful in trading him -- if indeed he can keep his head through losing, it will be hard to match his talent in a trade givne his depressed trade value.
 
Bricklayer said:
Ron's playing very very well, in th midst of an ugly losing season -- the exact situation it was assumed he could not tolerate. You have to be careful in trading him -- if indeed he can keep his head through losing, it will be hard to match his talent in a trade givne his depressed trade value.
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better than losing him for NOTHING.
 
Here are my concerns:

1. Ron leaves after next year anyway...we get nothing
2. Ron wakes up and realizes that this team is going nowhere...right now he seems to be delusional.
3. Ron starts hating it here and begins acting up...we get less in a trade, if we could even find someone willing to trade for him.

I am most concerned about #3. I think the only reason Ron is staying happy is because he is calling the shots. Our coach isn't. When we get a new coach (and we well...matter of time) Ron could very well be told that he doesn't call the shots; doesn't sub himself in and out of games...you get the idea.
 
Ron...

subbed himself in and out of the games last year also when Adelman was here. The coach is not the problem it is we have crappy players and when he gets the right players for his system u will see us do better.
 
6th said:
Here are my concerns:

1. Ron leaves after next year anyway...we get nothing
2. Ron wakes up and realizes that this team is going nowhere...right now he seems to be delusional.
3. Ron starts hating it here and begins acting up...we get less in a trade, if we could even find someone willing to trade for him.

I am most concerned about #3. I think the only reason Ron is staying happy is because he is calling the shots. Our coach isn't. When we get a new coach (and we well...matter of time) Ron could very well be told that he doesn't call the shots; doesn't sub himself in and out of games...you get the idea.
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precisely, that's why the saying "better to trade too early than too late" applies here. why take a risk his value takes a nose dive? sell while his value is relatively high. we're never going to get equal value for him, but we can get very much needed value for him.
 
This team reminds me so much of the 97'-98' team, its not even funny. This offseason will hopefully see another Petrie brainstorm...hopefully for the better, of course.
 
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