Look at the Minutes

[Kingsin07]

Nice to see coach stick to some core guys tonight for big minutes. It wasn't a revolving door of who's who and who do I come in for. Alot of plusses in the +/- category for the starters tonight.

Keep playing Spence. Landry and Reke are a given. JT has to come off the bench when he returns and I would start Donte and let him know it's 110% effort from the tip off or your a** is sittin, that's it. Omri as an energy guy with Noc off the bench. Casspi is wearing down and Noc proves his value every game.....it's either high if he is making shots or zilch if he isn't.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Nice to see coach stick to some core guys tonight for big minutes. It wasn't a revolving door of who's who and who do I come in for. Alot of plusses in the +/- category for the starters tonight.

Keep playing Spence. Landry and Reke are a given. JT has to come off the bench when he returns and I would start Donte and let him know it's 110% effort from the tip off or your a** is sittin, that's it. Omri as an energy guy with Noc off the bench. Casspi is wearing down and Noc proves his value every game.....it's either high if he is making shots or zilch if he isn't.

I tend to agree with everything you said. With Donte it has to be, "listen son" - you rebound, rebound, rebound, play hard nosed D (like Landry) and you start plus you'll be on the floor at the end of games. You can't coast, taking a quarter off here and there - you MUST board as we must have our SF on the glass or you will be behind not only Casspi - but Brockman, JT, Noc and even Dorsey.

 

[pshn80]

I tend to agree with everything you said. With Donte it has to be, "listen son" - you rebound, rebound, rebound, play hard nosed D (like Landry) and you start plus you'll be on the floor at the end of games. You can't coast, taking a quarter off here and there - you MUST board as we must have our SF on the glass or you will be behind not only Casspi - but Brockman, JT, Noc and even Dorsey.

I do too except for Donte. Coach has already said all that to him. Work Donte in as you can in winning efforts but start and play the others as tonight. Donte is still a big project and costs us, in the win loss column, when he gets big minutes. Don't give up on him, just play him when he won't hurt you.

 

[kingsnation]

I do too except for Donte. Coach has already said all that to him. Work Donte in as you can in winning efforts but start and play the others as tonight. Donte is still a big project and costs us, in the win loss column, when he gets big minutes. Don't give up on him, just play him when he won't hurt you.

But do wins/losses really matter in the rebuilding year? I mean, we aren't the Lakers or Cavs here.. or even the Grizzlies with Thabeet. We CAN afford to have our "projects," on the floor in key moments, heck even a few moments a game. I just think there's no excuse for a DNP-CD at this point in our season. Maybe early on when we were 13-14, but now? Really?

 

[VF21]

But do wins/losses really matter in the rebuilding year? I mean, we aren't the Lakers or Cavs here.. or even the Grizzlies with Thabeet. We CAN afford to have our "projects," on the floor in key moments, heck even a few moments a game. I just think there's no excuse for a DNP-CD at this point in our season. Maybe early on when we were 13-14, but now? Really?

Wins or at least well-fought losses ARE important. Why? To get the fans back into the seats. You cannot continue to expect people to pay good money to watch a "project on the floor in key moments." They've paid for and want to see maximum effort from our young team... and if it means someone like Donte occasionally doesn't play, so be it.

 

[kingsnation]

Wins or at least well-fought losses ARE important. Why? To get the fans back into the seats. You cannot continue to expect people to pay good money to watch a "project on the floor in key moments." They've paid for and want to see maximum effort from our young team... and if it means someone like Donte occasionally doesn't play, so be it.

And Donte hasn't given us at least "well fought losses?" Most of our losses this year were just that and Donte played a key role in most of them. Donte has given us "maximum effort," all season for our young team. So there are no excuses in not playing him.

 

[Gabriel]

Wins or at least well-fought losses ARE important. Why? To get the fans back into the seats. You cannot continue to expect people to pay good money to watch a "project on the floor in key moments." They've paid for and want to see maximum effort from our young team... and if it means someone like Donte occasionally doesn't play, so be it.

Nice to see you on the opposite side of the "wins don't matter" idea. Nice post.

 

[Bricklayer]

Donte has to be out there isn this year. Same as last year, its rebuilding. There is no excuse for it. Kid's got one of the best attitudes on the whole team too, so not buying that he somehow doesn't get it. Hell after the blowup last week he was one of the guys actually saying its ok, I didn't play hard enough tonight, so coach took me out. He get sit. There is no value whatsoever in sitting him. For one game, whatever, more of Westphal jerking his players around. Starter one night, non-playing 11th man the next? If it goes on for any length, its a coaching failure. If he is still jerking guys in and out, its a coaching failure.

Tonight it looked like maybe Spencer wasn't the only one who learned something from the blowup -- Westphal seemed to coach the team differently, shorten the main rotation, let guys play. But Donte has to be one of the guys doing the playing. And if that means the rotation is shorter still, that Ime and Noc are effectively eliminated etc., then so be it. We're 25 games from the end of another 20-something win lost season. All your best and brightest prospects need to be playing as much as you can get them on the floor. We're playing for next year already.

Too bad too, because everything else in this one went swimmingly.

 

[kupman]

Wins or at least well-fought losses ARE important. Why? To get the fans back into the seats. You cannot continue to expect people to pay good money to watch a "project on the floor in key moments." They've paid for and want to see maximum effort from our young team... and if it means someone like Donte occasionally doesn't play, so be it.

There is another reason that wins matter, even at this late point in the season. Losing teams tend to fight and point fingers at one another. Teams that win together like each other more (and even touch each other more as it turns out).

If I had to choose I would take a Kings win with Donte sitting on the bench over a Kings lose with Donte getting minutes. It is better for everyone IMHO - including Donte.

 

[Grawlix]

I think the rotations were perfect and I agree with the OP. Steady playing time allowed the starters to warm up completely during the beginning of the Third and the end of the Fourth, where all previous offensive problems with this team have kicked them in the butt.

The team also seems more comfortable with Beno sharing the ball handling responsibilities with Tyreke and with Spencer and Landry spreading the floor. The skill sets of both the back court and front court do not become duplicative, and the inside/outside ability of both Landry/Hawes and Evans/Udrih improves spacing. Also, I liked how the team looked while running the ball without a half-court set.

I also attribute the win to finally having some quality practice time with the new Kings. The way the Kings played last night, it's hard to believe that Landry and the rest of the ex-rocket crew just got here.

I can only imagine it getting better.

 

[Bricklayer]

If I had to choose I would take a Kings win with Donte sitting on the bench over a Kings lose with Donte getting minutes. It is better for everyone IMHO - including Donte.

That's a false dichotomy given that Donte plays as well or better than all of the guys who got his minutes on any given night.

Trying him and keeping minutes short if he sucks is one thing. Completely benching him behind a parade of highly mediocre players is entirely another.

 

[pshn80]

But do wins/losses really matter in the rebuilding year? I mean, we aren't the Lakers or Cavs here.. or even the Grizzlies with Thabeet. We CAN afford to have our "projects," on the floor in key moments, heck even a few moments a game. I just think there's no excuse for a DNP-CD at this point in our season. Maybe early on when we were 13-14, but now? Really?

Yes, the wins and losses really matter, always have, always will. And haven't you seen our "projects" on the floor. We have lots of projects and they have to and do play lots of minutes. I think I'll hire Westphal to decide the minutes.

 

[pshn80]

Donte has to be out there isn this year. Same as last year, its rebuilding. There is no excuse for it. Kid's got one of the best attitudes on the whole team too, so not buying that he somehow doesn't get it. Hell after the blowup last week he was one of the guys actually saying its ok, I didn't play hard enough tonight, so coach took me out. He get sit. There is no value whatsoever in sitting him. For one game, whatever, more of Westphal jerking his players around. Starter one night, non-playing 11th man the next? If it goes on for any length, its a coaching failure. If he is still jerking guys in and out, its a coaching failure.

Tonight it looked like maybe Spencer wasn't the only one who learned something from the blowup -- Westphal seemed to coach the team differently, shorten the main rotation, let guys play. But Donte has to be one of the guys doing the playing. And if that means the rotation is shorter still, that Ime and Noc are effectively eliminated etc., then so be it. We're 25 games from the end of another 20-something win lost season. All your best and brightest prospects need to be playing as much as you can get them on the floor. We're playing for next year already.

Too bad too, because everything else in this one went swimmingly.

Makes you think, doesn't it.

 

[kupman]

That's a false dichotomy given that Donte plays as well or better than all of the guys who got his minutes on any given night.

Trying him and keeping minutes short if he sucks is one thing. Completely benching him behind a parade of highly mediocre players is entirely another.

It was a contrived and hypothetical choice to be sure. My point being, I think that a Kings win is much more valuable than playing time for any one player.

I understand the other opinion. I too am very excited about Donte's future here and would love to see him grow with the team. I am just not going to get very concerned if he does not play once in awhile at this point.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yes, the wins and losses really matter, always have, always will.

heh -- you are either really new around here, or you weren't paying any attention last year.

Wins and losses in some years are an active detriment. They far froim always matter. The one and only reason that we can even talk about them matterring in the future is because that we lost, and lost grandly, last year. We win three more games slip one more draft spot, there is no Tyreke.

Now the worm has partially turned. There was significant value to this win for morale purposes, and with so much talented youth keeping their morale reasonable has a value. But only if the wins are because of them. If we ever return to the years of trying to eke out menaingless late season wins with veterans somebody deserves to be pelted with rotten tomatoes.

 

[Bricklayer]

Makes you think, doesn't it.

I haven't really figured out the source of your antipathy towards Donte, but it is going to make you look very foolish in a couple of years.

 

[kingsnation]

Yes, the wins and losses really matter, always have, always will. And haven't you seen our "projects" on the floor. We have lots of projects and they have to and do play lots of minutes. I think I'll hire Westphal to decide the minutes.

Wins and losses matter when you are competing for a playoff spot. Do they help chemistry? Yes. But, Donte still could've helped us win just as much as the other guys.

You also just said yourself that our projects "have to" play lots of minutes and yet you are so convinced that this was a good thing that Donte got the DNP. So , which is it? Which one do you want?

The point is that how many times should you sacrifice one of our future players' minutes, psyche and confidence for 1 Win in a rebuilding year? I just don't understand how for the past 2 years, 90% of this board has been stressing "play the kids," "We're rebuilding," "Trade the vets, get the kids," and now all of a sudden, if handled correctly, one of the brightest spots of our future is benched completely for apparently no reason. Honestly, I think we've become so desperate to get the wins, we're willing to concede the fact that it was a poor coaching move and that in the long run, it will hurt us more than help us.

And FTR, I'd hire a coach to decide the minutes too.

 

[pshn80]

I haven't really figured out the source of your antipathy towards Donte, but it is going to make you look very foolish in a couple of years.

Neither you nor I are new around here. I don't share your view on winning. I'm glad you saw the value of winning last night even though we didn't play Donte. The proper use, playing time minutes, for Donte I will leave to the coaches. As I see it Donte has had oodles of minutes and playing opportunities, he is a good guy and has improved under this coaching and is worthy of more opportunities. Besides all that he shows, he is a pain in the coaches rear. Let's hope he pans out. In the meantime I'm not going to complain if the coaches sometimes play Ime and Noc instead of him. And I wouldn't bet the franchise on him. Go KIngs, go Donte.

 

[bajaden]

That's a false dichotomy given that Donte plays as well or better than all of the guys who got his minutes on any given night.

Trying him and keeping minutes short if he sucks is one thing. Completely benching him behind a parade of highly mediocre players is entirely another.

I tend to agree with this. I think you have to at least give him a shot. If he doesn't play well, then sit him back down. But at least give him a chance to get on the floor. My hope is that we rid ourselves of Nocioni this offseason. He's not in the future of this team and he's also one of the most inconsistant players on the team. You just never know which Nocioni is going to show up. Much like last night. Which was the real one. The one in the first half that stunk, or the one in the second half that played well.

 

[roasthawg]

Donte's a bad fit for this team right now imo... I don't post here often but my last couple of posts have been about the type of player Reke needs to play next too. It's an Udrih rather than Martin or Donte. Jordan won titles next to Paxson and Kerr and Wade won with Jones. I think Udrih is the closest we have to one of those guys... a sharpshooter who can handle the ball but doesn't need it.

 

[kingsnation]

Donte's a bad fit for this team right now imo... I don't post here often but my last couple of posts have been about the type of player Reke needs to play next too. It's an Udrih rather than Martin or Donte. Jordan won titles next to Paxson and Kerr and Wade won with Jones. I think Udrih is the closest we have to one of those guys... a sharpshooter who can handle the ball but doesn't need it.

Um, Pippen?

 

[roasthawg]

Um, Pippen?

I'm talking about the backcourt only here... I like Udrih starting next to Reke is my point here I guess.

 

[bajaden]

Wins and losses matter when you are competing for a playoff spot. Do they help chemistry? Yes. But, Donte still could've helped us win just as much as the other guys.

You also just said yourself that our projects "have to" play lots of minutes and yet you are so convinced that this was a good thing that Donte got the DNP. So , which is it? Which one do you want?

The point is that how many times should you sacrifice one of our future players' minutes, psyche and confidence for 1 Win in a rebuilding year? I just don't understand how for the past 2 years, 90% of this board has been stressing "play the kids," "We're rebuilding," "Trade the vets, get the kids," and now all of a sudden, if handled correctly, one of the brightest spots of our future is benched completely for apparently no reason. Honestly, I think we've become so desperate to get the wins, we're willing to concede the fact that it was a poor coaching move and that in the long run, it will hurt us more than help us.

And FTR, I'd hire a coach to decide the minutes too.

I understand the spirit of your post, but don't entirely agree. As I've stated, I think Greene has to be given a chance to get on the floor. As for his not playing last night. Its hard to call that a bad coaching decision since we won. Now if he continues to not play Donte, which would surprise me, then thats another story. I suspect he's simply trying to send Donte a message that, don't think you've got made just yet and expect to get a lot of minutes. You still have to earn them.

As far as saying we could have won just as easily with Donte out there is just speculation on your part. Don't forget. It was a close game that came down to the wire. A game where a small mistake near the end could have reversed the outcome. So its not a given that we would have won with Donte out there. I'd certainly like to think so, but of late, one of Donte's problems has been turning the ball over. Something we didn't do much of last night. And probably one of the reasons we won the game. We also didn't get caught up in a lot of one on one play. Another thing Donte has been guilty of of late. This is not a condemnation of him. I just think Westphal was sending him a wake up call. At least I hope so..

Oh, and by the way. I'm not desperate for wins. I doubt they really matter in the grand scheme of things, except in regards to draft position. But I do enjoy the wins when they happen. Especially when the team plays the way it did last night.