kingsboi
Hall of Famer
its the offseason. someone needs to fill the time with something. if it isn't coming from Woj, it's not news.
Kyrie Irving
- Thread starter Kingsfan91
- Start date
its the offseason. someone needs to fill the time with something. if it isn't coming from Woj, it's not news.
To obtain Kyrie, we would have to trade off young assets and contracts to help match. We are in a rebuild and though Kyrie is close in age, his contract status is the problem. That is what doesn't fit....not the talent level. Stay the course and continue with your rebuild and enjoy the high draft pick next year.
Fox for 7+ years or 3 years of Kyrie is the question and I think that's an easy one to answer.
The Effort Police
Starter
If we were going to try and acquire Kyrie, we might as well have just kept Cousins.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-kings-to-offer-deaaron-fox-for-kyrie-irving/
CBS amplifying the rumor-mill. As much as I think Irving is top shelf, I'd like to see Fox develop in Sacramento please.....Irving will want a max type contract for resign. Its evident the Kings ownership are trying to stay away from those gigantic contracts as long as possible.
This year is actually a good year....with expectations lower, it'll be more fun to watch all the different players hopefully that Joerger lets loose. Odds/rumors have the Kings winning 31 games. Sounds reasonable.
CBS amplifying the rumor-mill. As much as I think Irving is top shelf, I'd like to see Fox develop in Sacramento please.....Irving will want a max type contract for resign. Its evident the Kings ownership are trying to stay away from those gigantic contracts as long as possible.
This year is actually a good year....with expectations lower, it'll be more fun to watch all the different players hopefully that Joerger lets loose. Odds/rumors have the Kings winning 31 games. Sounds reasonable.
Maybe because Kyrie is a lot more talented than anyone else on our roster? Or maybe it's because Kyrie Irving is a young franchise player? I don't know what it could be man..I knew the moment I heard about Kyrie wanting out there would be someone posting on here talking about how we should go for him.
Well, amplifying as in "Sam Amico reported that..." Just remember that 15 stories all copied off of the same source is still one story. And it started with Sam Amico.
whozit
Starter
How often do we see this happen with the "real news" media? I know that I don't know what I think I know.
Chupacabra
Starter
Warriors are going to get him and start 6 players.
If Kyrie Irving isn't happy playing for championships every year in Cleveland he's not going to be happy in Sacramento. Maybe he saw Russell Westbrook break records and win an MVP award without Kevin Durant and thought "that could be me" which is certainly his prerogative. A lot of money is on the line and Cleveland is all-in on pleasing Lebron instead. I understand where he's coming from but that probably isn't the type of attitude I want to stake my team's fortunes on. He's basically admitting that he's all about getting his and winning comes second. I can imagine an alternate universe where Kyrie and Andrew Wiggins are leading an up and coming team in Cleveland. Let's say they didn't completely whiff on the 2013 draft and give them Nerlens Noel too. Would Kyrie be a bigger star in that scenario or would he be toiling in relative obscurity and eager to leave for a bigger market? I guess we'll never know. Cavs management sold out to get a championship with Lebron and it worked so you have to figure some kind of rebuilding when this current group has run it's course (maybe it already has?) was always going to be the inevitable fallout from that decision.
I seriously doubt we would swap Fox for Irving though with very little chance of signing Irving to a long-term deal. That's just franchise suicide. So in lieu of discussing more fake news, I vote we use this space to appreciate drive-by dunking hijinx instead:
I seriously doubt we would swap Fox for Irving though with very little chance of signing Irving to a long-term deal. That's just franchise suicide. So in lieu of discussing more fake news, I vote we use this space to appreciate drive-by dunking hijinx instead:
This trade would have to happen In December when Hill could be traded
Kings Out Hill-20m,Koufus-8.5m,Buddy-4m Cavs Out Kyrie-19m,Shump-10.5
Kings Reasoning Get a legit star to pair with Fox as the backcourt of the future. Bogis path to minutes is cleared as the Kings move on from the golden child in Buddy. Kings would be able to pair two max FA's with Kyrie and the boys before the 2019/2020 season
Cavs Reasoning If Lebron stays this year the Cavs roll out a solid squad with Hill and Koufus adding veteran experience and quality defense. Buddy is a significant downgrade from Kyrie, however the potential to be a marketable replacement is there.
Kings Out Hill-20m,Koufus-8.5m,Buddy-4m Cavs Out Kyrie-19m,Shump-10.5
Kings Reasoning Get a legit star to pair with Fox as the backcourt of the future. Bogis path to minutes is cleared as the Kings move on from the golden child in Buddy. Kings would be able to pair two max FA's with Kyrie and the boys before the 2019/2020 season
Cavs Reasoning If Lebron stays this year the Cavs roll out a solid squad with Hill and Koufus adding veteran experience and quality defense. Buddy is a significant downgrade from Kyrie, however the potential to be a marketable replacement is there.
macadocious
Starter
E-Double, you playing Kyrie at the 2 in this scenario?
I feel like hes a natural 2. Hopefully a year of PT for Fox will have him comfortably playing off ball as well
macadocious
Starter
Small backcourt there, 40 water.
Kyries one inch shorter than Buddy. Backcourt size issues wouldnt be due to this trade.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
But is he? He's a phenomenal offensive player, at times, but can be quite streaky. And his defense is only slightly better than James Harden level. He proved to be a very good player playing with LeBron James, but what capable player isn't?
Also I think this bit of info from a Zach Lowe article says a lot too.
At this point in time, Kyrie hasn't proven to be any better than say Isaiah Thomas -- who never played with a transcendent player such a LeBron James. We'll soon find out what he's capable of on his own. But I surely wouldn't want to give up the farm for a 1 dimensional chucker.
macadocious
Starter
6-4 wing span vs. 6 8.5 wingspan. I'm not saying you can't run a small backcourt and be successful with Fox/Irving. But Fox is going to have to guard every bigger guard and he needs to get a lot stronger for that.
Can we do it where we don't take Shump back? I don't want that garbage contract.
Also, if LeBron is really going to fight Kyrie Cans can't wait until December 15th to make the deal.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyrie-Irving-5735/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Buddy-Hield-58749/
Lastly, when are you down next? I let me tickets go this year, but I still have hookups, we have to get to a game.
Suicide King
Starter
I want no part of Irving and I hope our front office feels the same.
I'll take the under. It will be fun, but wins hard to come by.
Yes its the same story, but 15 copies of the same story is an amplification - the effect of being on 15 additional sites. Who knows if its true. CBS seemed to use a bit more "sturdy" adjectives as if it is. I'd be a bit more inquisitive if the Bee reported it as they're probably more cautious about what they print.
If you don't have high expectations its harder to be disappointed.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Some sort of Fox + other young players + a pick for Kyrie won't happen. Some other team will beat the offer, the Suns can do it easily with Bledsoe and their trove of young assets.
He's better (more efficient) than Allen Iverson IMHO..
Kyrie could be one of the leagues leading scorers if the fit is right. He's extremely difficult to stop, there's a strong argument to be made that he's got the best handles/shiftyness in the league, his body control, touch around the basket and hand-eye coordination are all top shelf too.
He's better (more efficient) than Allen Iverson IMHO..
Mike
Bench
Should we trade for Irving?
Maybe. We should at least consider it because he's an all star and in his early-mid-20s. There's no doubting his talent. The big issue with making a move for him is we would have to be confident that he would sign a new contract when he can opt out two years from now - at that point he'd be 27 years old - and that could result in us trading for a guy that doesn't stay and leaves us back at square one.
So once again we would be in that Cousins like situation. If we don't show enough progress and start to show we can be least a play off team heading towards a higher seed, then there is a good chance a player like Irving could leave for a better situation - and at 27 years old he'll have no shortage of suitors. However, if we show enough progress, make the play offs, and show we could be a higher seed, then there's a chance he could re-sign with us - but even in his situation he could get his head turned.
I'll be honest, I'd love to see him join us but it's risky. We aren't in OKC's position where they are going all in on trying to win a championship with Westbrook. I could understand taking the risk if we still had Cousins and wanted to pair another all star with him, but we don't have him anymore. We have mostly young talent with some veterans. At best I could see us being an outside play off contender this season, and without any further moves or breakouts that is probably our ceiling.
I suppose to some a return to the play offs would be good news, but unless he signs a long term deal when he can opt out or before that year comes, we could end up sacrificing young talent for a player that leaves at the first opportunity to do so. Now if Fox's ceiling is Elfrid Payton, and WCS becomes nothing more than an average center, then I suppose sacrificing them for a proven all star and betting on him re-signing and making us better might be worth it. However, if Fox does have star potential and achieves it, and WCS can be more than an average center, then we might kick ourselves for doing a deal (especially if Irving leaves).
For me, I'd stay the course and bet on our young talent developing into stars. Though I wouldn't complain if we did trade for Irving just as long as we don't give up too much.
Maybe. We should at least consider it because he's an all star and in his early-mid-20s. There's no doubting his talent. The big issue with making a move for him is we would have to be confident that he would sign a new contract when he can opt out two years from now - at that point he'd be 27 years old - and that could result in us trading for a guy that doesn't stay and leaves us back at square one.
So once again we would be in that Cousins like situation. If we don't show enough progress and start to show we can be least a play off team heading towards a higher seed, then there is a good chance a player like Irving could leave for a better situation - and at 27 years old he'll have no shortage of suitors. However, if we show enough progress, make the play offs, and show we could be a higher seed, then there's a chance he could re-sign with us - but even in his situation he could get his head turned.
I'll be honest, I'd love to see him join us but it's risky. We aren't in OKC's position where they are going all in on trying to win a championship with Westbrook. I could understand taking the risk if we still had Cousins and wanted to pair another all star with him, but we don't have him anymore. We have mostly young talent with some veterans. At best I could see us being an outside play off contender this season, and without any further moves or breakouts that is probably our ceiling.
I suppose to some a return to the play offs would be good news, but unless he signs a long term deal when he can opt out or before that year comes, we could end up sacrificing young talent for a player that leaves at the first opportunity to do so. Now if Fox's ceiling is Elfrid Payton, and WCS becomes nothing more than an average center, then I suppose sacrificing them for a proven all star and betting on him re-signing and making us better might be worth it. However, if Fox does have star potential and achieves it, and WCS can be more than an average center, then we might kick ourselves for doing a deal (especially if Irving leaves).
For me, I'd stay the course and bet on our young talent developing into stars. Though I wouldn't complain if we did trade for Irving just as long as we don't give up too much.
And that's part of the problem, in my opinion. CBS didn't actually report anything new here. They just parroted the Amico report. No "confirmation", no "additional sources", just a repeat of the Amico report, with potentially more concrete verbiage. Journalistic amplifiers end up being this huge game of telephone where one person's speculation that team A might consider move B quickly becomes a breathless report that team A is desperately trying to make move B happen - without any additional events or information whatsoever. If you want to keep your head in any rumor-filled business, you have to be able to identify these cases of journalistic amplification and dismiss them.
Here we have seen no independent confirmation of Amico's original report (only Xeroxes of it) and we've got at least one local report from those connected with the team to refute it. Until further evidence emerges, the most sensible side of the story is probably right. The most sensible side of the story says that the Kings are not built to contend right now, that adding Kyrie Irving wouldn't help them, that Kyrie probably wouldn't even be happy here, and that to get Kyrie the Kings would have to disassemble a deliberate rebuild that they have finally entered into after years of screwing around trying out half-hearted rebuilds. Considering all of that, the Kings pursuing Irving doesn't really make sense. Sure, if they still had Cousins it would be a different story, but they don't.
I guess I'm getting long-winded here, but the point is that if a story doesn't make sense, and if it's getting pushed by repetition rather than by confirmation, it's probably rogue journalism. There's plenty of that to go around.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Aye aye, Cap'n. While unscrupulous media practices certainly don't help things, we could also use more careful reading and media consumption habits as well.
Repeating a bad story multiple times doesn't increase its credibility. Who knows if it's true? Well, just about everybody in the sports universe not named Sam Amico.
This is becoming a real problem in reporting throughout social media. Stories spread like wildfire with little regard to the source or origin OR the reputation of said source.
Its not becoming a problem, it is a problem and has been since before the internet/social media which amplifies how many hear the rumor/story. Sports mis-information is small potatoes though. There is other much bigger problems like hate speech, libel, slander, and outright deception to name several.
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