Knicks to keep an eye on Chris Webber?
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vladetomiller said:
I dont think they ranked him 46th based on last year, he didnt play that much last year. But then again who knows what those rankers think 
If the knicks want him then maybe its better to trade him now for expiring contracts, yao ming is coming up in FA next year
If the knicks want him then maybe its better to trade him now for expiring contracts, yao ming is coming up in FA next year
As a free agent you mean, i think miller/webber/bibby all signed here for an extension or something. Guess Peja also came up in the same way, there is a difference between when the kings were not able to sign free agents then and now, they sucked then. Now they can be good and players have seen that the kings players are happy in sacto and its not that bad. Definitely lots of players did consider signing with sacto in the last few seasons because they were successfull and that include scrubs or heroes in the likes of keon/jj etc. I suppose they didnt want to come to sacto, according to your theory.
There is a huge asian population in the bay area and around that would love to get season tickets to come and watch their basketball hero play every night. Yao ming might have a few friends whom he can visit in probably an hours drive or maybe they can drop in, which are things that people consider while choosing a job. Offcourse that is assuming the pay is right and if the pay is the same in houston and sacto , i dont see why someone like yao wouldnt want to come to sacto especially if tmac drives him nuts this year and the lakers dont entice him too much.
I suppose the kings were far more over the cap when they managed to miller than they are now and when someone can pull that off i dont understand why they couldnt work out something similar when a 17 mill salary is gone.
Well why hold back at all, what seems idiotic for one may not be idiotic for the other and that is neithers fault. There are certain things that you cannot claim either way and its all relative to so many other factors, people used to call someone idiotic in the 15th century if they said that the earth was not flat, but we do know why the actual idiot is now. What seemed like a big idiotic thing last year to let vlade walk away for anything less than or equal to the mid level exception seems to be a brilliant move and time will tell about that but thats again relative and i am talking about the developement from last year to this year. What seems idiotic for some people to question/comment on one player/players game could in fact may not be idiotic in the long run and maybe sometimes it could be the thing that turns everything around. What seemed idiotic for the lakers fans a few years ago to trade for the high school kid giving away their best prospect in center doesnt seem that bad afterall. What seemed like an idiotic thing for the detroit pistons to do last year getting the malcontent sheed seems to be the missing peice to the ring now. So when someone says that what someone else said is idiotic or even if the person themselves are stupid i dont take that very seriously as it just doesnt reflect more on my intellectual ability or my ability to comprehend things but it does reflect a lot on the maturity of the other person who just cant take a view point as it is and who just cant mature enough to understand that people will have their views what ever you do or however you try to convince them.
There is a huge asian population in the bay area and around that would love to get season tickets to come and watch their basketball hero play every night. Yao ming might have a few friends whom he can visit in probably an hours drive or maybe they can drop in, which are things that people consider while choosing a job. Offcourse that is assuming the pay is right and if the pay is the same in houston and sacto , i dont see why someone like yao wouldnt want to come to sacto especially if tmac drives him nuts this year and the lakers dont entice him too much.
I suppose the kings were far more over the cap when they managed to miller than they are now and when someone can pull that off i dont understand why they couldnt work out something similar when a 17 mill salary is gone.
Well why hold back at all, what seems idiotic for one may not be idiotic for the other and that is neithers fault. There are certain things that you cannot claim either way and its all relative to so many other factors, people used to call someone idiotic in the 15th century if they said that the earth was not flat, but we do know why the actual idiot is now. What seemed like a big idiotic thing last year to let vlade walk away for anything less than or equal to the mid level exception seems to be a brilliant move and time will tell about that but thats again relative and i am talking about the developement from last year to this year. What seems idiotic for some people to question/comment on one player/players game could in fact may not be idiotic in the long run and maybe sometimes it could be the thing that turns everything around. What seemed idiotic for the lakers fans a few years ago to trade for the high school kid giving away their best prospect in center doesnt seem that bad afterall. What seemed like an idiotic thing for the detroit pistons to do last year getting the malcontent sheed seems to be the missing peice to the ring now. So when someone says that what someone else said is idiotic or even if the person themselves are stupid i dont take that very seriously as it just doesnt reflect more on my intellectual ability or my ability to comprehend things but it does reflect a lot on the maturity of the other person who just cant take a view point as it is and who just cant mature enough to understand that people will have their views what ever you do or however you try to convince them.
I think that was in reference to top 50 players article/thread from few days ago. That article had CWebb at number 46.
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=743
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=743
Thanks. I saw it, but wanted someone to make a case for Chris Webber really being the 46th best player in the League, which I'd consider to be a "middling" player. He put up almost 19 points, grabbed almost 9 rebounds and dished out almost 5 assists a game on one leg. I could name 20 players Chris Webber is better than (without considering salaries/age) that are higher than he is on that list. People only remember the recent past, which is why anyone is even considering trading Webber to the Knicks in the first place.
Like I said before, he's no world beater, but I'd hasten to move him up on the list, at least 15-20 spots.
Like I said before, he's no world beater, but I'd hasten to move him up on the list, at least 15-20 spots.
Supe - I would say so for the webber of the previous year. I just cant think of that many better players than webb and to be honest i think webb is better than bron and melo on one leg than what they are on two. ESPN just hypes them way too much and i cant understand why they keep hyping the dunks and they show no love for real basketball which i think webber is good at. He has good post skills and a good jumper which goes along with his passing ability and court vision. He does turnover a lot when he tries too much but even that is far lesser than these new guys. But all that aside i do think the kings could trade him to the knicks if they can get some good pieces (sorry i dont know the knicks roster that much but i am guessing that there will be some good piece left after all those years of mismanagement ). I think the trade should happen for the sole reason of getting something out of webb rather than see him injured the whole season, which seems like the case as he is not playing that many games and is not able to go on back to back
). I think the trade should happen for the sole reason of getting something out of webb rather than see him injured the whole season, which seems like the case as he is not playing that many games and is not able to go on back to back
vladetomiller said:
As a free agent you mean, i think miller/webber/bibby all signed here for an extension or something. Guess Peja also came up in the same way, there is a difference between when the kings were not able to sign free agents then and now, they sucked then. Now they can be good and players have seen that the kings players are happy in sacto and its not that bad. Definitely lots of players did consider signing with sacto in the last few seasons because they were successfull and that include scrubs or heroes in the likes of keon/jj etc. I suppose they didnt want to come to sacto, according to your theory.
There is a huge asian population in the bay area and around that would love to get season tickets to come and watch their basketball hero play every night. Yao ming might have a few friends whom he can visit in probably an hours drive or maybe they can drop in, which are things that people consider while choosing a job. Offcourse that is assuming the pay is right and if the pay is the same in houston and sacto , i dont see why someone like yao wouldnt want to come to sacto especially if tmac drives him nuts this year and the lakers dont entice him too much.
I suppose the kings were far more over the cap when they managed to miller than they are now and when someone can pull that off i dont understand why they couldnt work out something similar when a 17 mill salary is gone.
Well why hold back at all, what seems idiotic for one may not be idiotic for the other and that is neithers fault. There are certain things that you cannot claim either way and its all relative to so many other factors, people used to call someone idiotic in the 15th century if they said that the earth was not flat, but we do know why the actual idiot is now. What seemed like a big idiotic thing last year to let vlade walk away for anything less than or equal to the mid level exception seems to be a brilliant move and time will tell about that but thats again relative and i am talking about the developement from last year to this year. What seems idiotic for some people to question/comment on one player/players game could in fact may not be idiotic in the long run and maybe sometimes it could be the thing that turns everything around. What seemed idiotic for the lakers fans a few years ago to trade for the high school kid giving away their best prospect in center doesnt seem that bad afterall. What seemed like an idiotic thing for the detroit pistons to do last year getting the malcontent sheed seems to be the missing peice to the ring now. So when someone says that what someone else said is idiotic or even if the person themselves are stupid i dont take that very seriously as it just doesnt reflect more on my intellectual ability or my ability to comprehend things but it does reflect a lot on the maturity of the other person who just cant take a view point as it is and who just cant mature enough to understand that people will have their views what ever you do or however you try to convince them.
There is a huge asian population in the bay area and around that would love to get season tickets to come and watch their basketball hero play every night. Yao ming might have a few friends whom he can visit in probably an hours drive or maybe they can drop in, which are things that people consider while choosing a job. Offcourse that is assuming the pay is right and if the pay is the same in houston and sacto , i dont see why someone like yao wouldnt want to come to sacto especially if tmac drives him nuts this year and the lakers dont entice him too much.
I suppose the kings were far more over the cap when they managed to miller than they are now and when someone can pull that off i dont understand why they couldnt work out something similar when a 17 mill salary is gone.
Well why hold back at all, what seems idiotic for one may not be idiotic for the other and that is neithers fault. There are certain things that you cannot claim either way and its all relative to so many other factors, people used to call someone idiotic in the 15th century if they said that the earth was not flat, but we do know why the actual idiot is now. What seemed like a big idiotic thing last year to let vlade walk away for anything less than or equal to the mid level exception seems to be a brilliant move and time will tell about that but thats again relative and i am talking about the developement from last year to this year. What seems idiotic for some people to question/comment on one player/players game could in fact may not be idiotic in the long run and maybe sometimes it could be the thing that turns everything around. What seemed idiotic for the lakers fans a few years ago to trade for the high school kid giving away their best prospect in center doesnt seem that bad afterall. What seemed like an idiotic thing for the detroit pistons to do last year getting the malcontent sheed seems to be the missing peice to the ring now. So when someone says that what someone else said is idiotic or even if the person themselves are stupid i dont take that very seriously as it just doesnt reflect more on my intellectual ability or my ability to comprehend things but it does reflect a lot on the maturity of the other person who just cant take a view point as it is and who just cant mature enough to understand that people will have their views what ever you do or however you try to convince them.
Here's just a few of the more blatant errors:
1) you seem to be confusing resigning your own players to contracts wiht signing a player off the open market (i.e. FREE AGENCY). The single BEST player to ever sign with the Kings as a FREE AGENT was Vlade Divac.
2) you also seem to be making the silly argument that our ability to sign journeymen players hoping to get a cheap ring while we are championship contenders is even remotely the same thing as signing a franchise type player after we've slipped away. Its still Sacramento.
3) you utterly fail to address the point that we would still be over the cap even without Webber's contract. Other than to make some vague suggestion that hopefully Petrie can pull a magic rabbit out of his hat to save us from the stupidity by signing Yao. Now who exactly is being unrealistic?
4) You also fail to note that Brad Miller a) is not a franchise player; b) if he were a fracnhise player he would never have been available the way he was (you do not trade away franchise players due to finanacial trouble, you trade away everyone else). What perchance do you think the reaction would have been by the Pacers if we offered to alleviate their financial suffering by taking Jermaine off their hands for Hedo and Pollard? Right.
Your way is smoke and mirrors -- the chuck and duck. Throw away a player, then hope you can get lucky and make up for it. I've always taken you for a Lakers fan. But maybe I have you affiliated with the wrong L.A. team. I smell Sterling logic.
P.S. You would of course be in far better position than me to judge, but so far as I know not one single person thought swapping Vlade for Kobe was a stupid move given that you'd jsut stolen Shaq away from Orlando.
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vladetomiller said:
Supe - I would say so for the webber of the previous year. I just cant think of that many better players than webb and to be honest i think webb is better than bron and melo on one leg than what they are on two. ESPN just hypes them way too much and i cant understand why they keep hyping the dunks and they show no love for real basketball which i think webber is good at. He has good post skills and a good jumper which goes along with his passing ability and court vision. He does turnover a lot when he tries too much but even that is far lesser than these new guys. But all that aside i do think the kings could trade him to the knicks if they can get some good pieces (sorry i dont know the knicks roster that much but i am guessing that there will be some good piece left after all those years of mismanagement ). I think the trade should happen for the sole reason of getting something out of webb rather than see him injured the whole season, which seems like the case as he is not playing that many games and is not able to go on back to back
). I think the trade should happen for the sole reason of getting something out of webb rather than see him injured the whole season, which seems like the case as he is not playing that many games and is not able to go on back to back
You seem to be workign off a rather curious and at this point unwarranted suposition that Webber is going to be hurt all year. Wishful thinking perhaps? Regardless, if it happens, the Kings will not win a championship. Then next season this discussion can be had rationally. Webb, Doug, Bobby and likely Peja will all be potential trade bait. But giving up on the season before it even begins based on nothing at all is ridiculous.
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I will not take your bait and stoop down to name calling , by the way a bait is something where you quote someones post, i guess you can look back to see who is doing what. I didnt respond to your post per say whereas you quoted me about something.
1. Was webber a free agent - I thought so, though he did play for the kings the previous year he could have gone anywhere else. Bibby chose to sign with the kings for the extension, if he didnt like it he could have waited for the next year. Miller could have asked his agent to work out a deal with some other team if he didnt like the kings
2. I assume that you dont live in sacto anyhow there are players who will go anywhere for money and sacto is not that bad a place to live in.
3. Last year the kings were over the cap but they landed miller who also got paid the maximum (i think or thereabout ) similar things can be done and who knows what the value for doug will be next year with an expiring contract
4. Pacers chose not to sign miller for that much money and that was it. Miller is not a franchise player but i guess peja could become one and bibby is almost there. Lots of teams have won with two franchise players and quality scrubs
Lots of lakers fans thought that the trade was not good, not because of center position but because they thought they could someone better than just kobe, he was afterall a highschooler
I never wish for any player to get injured and thats really an insult towards me to think that way. Yes i have a feeling that he will be hurt and the reason is simple, preseason games. I dont think you can have knee swelling after practices and pre season games and miss practices and games thereafter and expect that once the season starts (which is a matter of days ) he will be perfectly healthy. He could play 50 games this season, but the playoffs might be difficult with a low seeding or even could miss playoffs in the open west.
Again as i said, i will talk about the topic and i would try not to talk about the poster or how stupid it looks
, by the way a bait is something where you quote someones post, i guess you can look back to see who is doing what. I didnt respond to your post per say whereas you quoted me about something.1. Was webber a free agent - I thought so, though he did play for the kings the previous year he could have gone anywhere else. Bibby chose to sign with the kings for the extension, if he didnt like it he could have waited for the next year. Miller could have asked his agent to work out a deal with some other team if he didnt like the kings
2. I assume that you dont live in sacto
anyhow there are players who will go anywhere for money and sacto is not that bad a place to live in. 3. Last year the kings were over the cap but they landed miller who also got paid the maximum (i think or thereabout ) similar things can be done and who knows what the value for doug will be next year with an expiring contract
4. Pacers chose not to sign miller for that much money and that was it. Miller is not a franchise player but i guess peja could become one and bibby is almost there. Lots of teams have won with two franchise players
and quality scrubsLots of lakers fans thought that the trade was not good, not because of center position but because they thought they could someone better than just kobe, he was afterall a highschooler
I never wish for any player to get injured and thats really an insult towards me to think that way. Yes i have a feeling that he will be hurt and the reason is simple, preseason games. I dont think you can have knee swelling after practices and pre season games and miss practices and games thereafter and expect that once the season starts (which is a matter of days ) he will be perfectly healthy. He could play 50 games this season, but the playoffs might be difficult with a low seeding or even could miss playoffs in the open west.
Again as i said, i will talk about the topic and i would try not to talk about the poster or how stupid it looks
i will admit that i do not live in sacto and i started loving the kings because of their players.
so when the players are being traded and leave, the team is pretty much gone for me.
which is why this is troublesome. it's taken a long time for me to find someone to love and i've grown attached to the kings.
i know we look into the best interest for the team and all, but to me, the players are the team.
if the are gone, then how much of a team would we have left?
i guess if they trade both webber and peja and supposedly get someone better, it may be in the "best interest" cause they'll be badder and stronger. say they even win a title. hip-hip-horray
but it won't be the sac kings i know with my boys, peja, webber, christie, bibby, jackson, miller, all of them.
i know for you die-hard fans, your loyality don't change no matter what.
just saying that may not be the case for me and i'd be really troubled to see this team deteriorate.
so when the players are being traded and leave, the team is pretty much gone for me.
which is why this is troublesome. it's taken a long time for me to find someone to love and i've grown attached to the kings.
i know we look into the best interest for the team and all, but to me, the players are the team.
if the are gone, then how much of a team would we have left?
i guess if they trade both webber and peja and supposedly get someone better, it may be in the "best interest" cause they'll be badder and stronger. say they even win a title. hip-hip-horray
but it won't be the sac kings i know with my boys, peja, webber, christie, bibby, jackson, miller, all of them.
i know for you die-hard fans, your loyality don't change no matter what.
just saying that may not be the case for me and i'd be really troubled to see this team deteriorate.
vladetomiller said:
I will not take your bait and stoop down to name calling , by the way a bait is something where you quote someones post, i guess you can look back to see who is doing what. I didnt respond to your post per say whereas you quoted me about something.
1. Was webber a free agent - I thought so, though he did play for the kings the previous year he could have gone anywhere else. Bibby chose to sign with the kings for the extension, if he didnt like it he could have waited for the next year. Miller could have asked his agent to work out a deal with some other team if he didnt like the kings
2. I assume that you dont live in sacto anyhow there are players who will go anywhere for money and sacto is not that bad a place to live in.
3. Last year the kings were over the cap but they landed miller who also got paid the maximum (i think or thereabout ) similar things can be done and who knows what the value for doug will be next year with an expiring contract
4. Pacers chose not to sign miller for that much money and that was it. Miller is not a franchise player but i guess peja could become one and bibby is almost there. Lots of teams have won with two franchise players and quality scrubs
Lots of lakers fans thought that the trade was not good, not because of center position but because they thought they could someone better than just kobe, he was afterall a highschooler
I never wish for any player to get injured and thats really an insult towards me to think that way. Yes i have a feeling that he will be hurt and the reason is simple, preseason games. I dont think you can have knee swelling after practices and pre season games and miss practices and games thereafter and expect that once the season starts (which is a matter of days ) he will be perfectly healthy. He could play 50 games this season, but the playoffs might be difficult with a low seeding or even could miss playoffs in the open west.
Again as i said, i will talk about the topic and i would try not to talk about the poster or how stupid it looks
, by the way a bait is something where you quote someones post, i guess you can look back to see who is doing what. I didnt respond to your post per say whereas you quoted me about something.1. Was webber a free agent - I thought so, though he did play for the kings the previous year he could have gone anywhere else. Bibby chose to sign with the kings for the extension, if he didnt like it he could have waited for the next year. Miller could have asked his agent to work out a deal with some other team if he didnt like the kings
2. I assume that you dont live in sacto
anyhow there are players who will go anywhere for money and sacto is not that bad a place to live in. 3. Last year the kings were over the cap but they landed miller who also got paid the maximum (i think or thereabout ) similar things can be done and who knows what the value for doug will be next year with an expiring contract
4. Pacers chose not to sign miller for that much money and that was it. Miller is not a franchise player but i guess peja could become one and bibby is almost there. Lots of teams have won with two franchise players
and quality scrubsLots of lakers fans thought that the trade was not good, not because of center position but because they thought they could someone better than just kobe, he was afterall a highschooler
I never wish for any player to get injured and thats really an insult towards me to think that way. Yes i have a feeling that he will be hurt and the reason is simple, preseason games. I dont think you can have knee swelling after practices and pre season games and miss practices and games thereafter and expect that once the season starts (which is a matter of days ) he will be perfectly healthy. He could play 50 games this season, but the playoffs might be difficult with a low seeding or even could miss playoffs in the open west.
Again as i said, i will talk about the topic and i would try not to talk about the poster or how stupid it looks
Second, it only happened at the very beginning of training camp. Webb has had NO knee problems since that point. Any games he has not participated in where because it wasn't needed. Adelman had a lot of young guys to look at; he knows how Webber plays - he didn't need to watch him, especially in MEANINGLESS pre-season games.
He has NOT missed practices and sat out of the Phoenix game as a precaution only. (Ask the Pacers about not playing key players in the final, totally meaningless pre-season game. I'm willing to bet they would love to go back in time and NOT play Reggie Miller or Jermaine O'Neal.)
Webber performed exceptionally well in last year's playoffs while he was still recuperating. This year, everyone around Arco Arena, including media people, is talking about how much better he looks. (And, for the record, these are comments I've heard IN PERSON while at Arco.)
The Maloofs have a lot of faith in Chris Webber and they're hoping he and the rest of the team can get the job done this year. Trading him just isn't on their minds right now. They are committed to him...
Next year, who knows? It depends on what happens this year.
Right now, Webber is the lead dog in the harness.
I remember when we traded Jason Williams for Bibby, who knew what a tremendous feat that would turn out to be? Jason Williams, for all his inconsistency and just plain "wildness" (isn't it funny how now we view his great play-making ability, even if it was only about 40% accurate, in the negative now???), well...he was like family and it was hard to concede him gone. But, oh, Bibby...need I say more? And who didn't moan and groan LOUDLY when we let Hedo and Pollard go, just last year mind you, for Brad? Some of us were saying "Brad WHO???" It was like a bad joke! Granted, this is only 3 years worth of family moving out and outsiders moving in, but it's all been good, right?
I trust Petrie to do right, Petrie has been the shining light in an otherwise topsy-turvey franchise. Vlade's departure hurt, hell I took the day off work when it happened, I was crushed beyond belief! Just when I thought it couldn't get worse, along comes Ostertag and if we're all honest which one of us didn't instinctively want to hurl after that acquisition? But after thinking things thru and realizing the benefits of that presence Ostertag will bring, I trust Petrie all over again. You gotta give props to Petrie for not bowing to Peja's request for a trade.
Now with that said, we are fortunate to have most of our core players in tact for another year of whoop 'em up, fun, COMPETITIVE B-ball. I, for one, am glad we have everything set the way it was last year (minus Vlade), so when we succeed this year the win will be just that much sweeter for King's family.
I trust Petrie to do right, Petrie has been the shining light in an otherwise topsy-turvey franchise. Vlade's departure hurt, hell I took the day off work when it happened, I was crushed beyond belief! Just when I thought it couldn't get worse, along comes Ostertag and if we're all honest which one of us didn't instinctively want to hurl after that acquisition? But after thinking things thru and realizing the benefits of that presence Ostertag will bring, I trust Petrie all over again. You gotta give props to Petrie for not bowing to Peja's request for a trade.
Now with that said, we are fortunate to have most of our core players in tact for another year of whoop 'em up, fun, COMPETITIVE B-ball. I, for one, am glad we have everything set the way it was last year (minus Vlade), so when we succeed this year the win will be just that much sweeter for King's family.
Those of you who are newer fans of the Kings don't know what you've missed. Those of us who have been around since the beginning in 1985 look back fondly at people like Alaa Abdelnaby and Jeff Grayer, and all the other virtually forgotten players who wandered into and out of Arco with barely a whimper, let alone a yell...