He rode the bus right to the middle of downtown Trollville. Since the bus had to stop to let 3me off, it seemed like the logical thing to do.
[Game] Kings @ Warriors 11/02/13 Game Thread
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He rode the bus right to the middle of downtown Trollville. Since the bus had to stop to let 3me off, it seemed like the logical thing to do.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
This is always about delivery. You are correct, if Malone's delivery is Scott Skiles or Doug Collins or PJ Carlesimo then the players will tire of it, and they will fire him. But even in those cases it takes a couple of years for the accumulated abrasiveness to cause the counter reaction. And its not the vibe Malone has thrown off thus far. Coaches like Pop (and I hate to use that name since its an obvious end of the curve exception) have mastered the art of holding people accountable while still holding loyalty. And Malone will be helped in that by the general positive vibe around the organization and the complete backing he has from upper management.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
no you can do worse. Let em rot on the bench and refuse to trade them to a team that will play them.
I agree with this. My point was more that not being happy with the play of the team wasn't necessarily going to solve the problems the Kings have. I don't think Westphal was happy with the team and he tried to hold the players accountable. It didn't work.
Players may or may not listen but it won't be because the coach wasn't happy with their play. It will be a combination of maturity on the part of the players and way he delivers the message.
That is a bad way to run a team.
I agree with Npliam. That is NOT the way to run a team. You start punishing players and no one will want to come here.
It's about being fair. Expecting certain performances from players and holding them accountable if they fail to meet those standards because of a lack of effort. Letting them rot on the bench or refusing to trade them is vindictive, juvenile and about the best way I can thing of to totally lose any respect you might have had.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Most of not all basketball PLAYERS really like to PLAY. You put a guy on the bench until his attitude or behavior changes and MOST of them will respond rather quickly mostly because they really want to PLAY. If a prima dona wants to get huffy he amy need a little more time on the pine.
Westphal wasn't happy with much of anything. I think he found out fairly quickly that he had been scammed by the Maloofs into believing he was going to have their support. Once it became clear that he was going to be tossed to the wolves at the first opportunity, he became turtlelike, pulling in his head to dodge the blows.
I vehemently disagree. You treat someone like a petulant child and that's exactly what you'll get in return. Players with bad attitudes need to find somewhere else to go. We do not need them here.
Coaches need a carrot/stick approach. Players need to be held accountable BUT also given responsibility.
To be fair, Popovich has been extremely lucky in the sense that Tim Duncan, a once-in-a-generation player, completely buys into what Pop's selling. When you've got the superstar on board, it's a lot easier to get everyone else in line.
Malone's not going to be able to completely change the culture in Sacramento until Cousins goes "all in" on Malone's philosophy. He's shown signs of wanting to, and he's certainly paid lip service to it, so far. But, then we get back-to-back games of him feeling jobbed by the refs and/or ignored by his teammates, and you can already see glimpses of the "old" Cousins peering through cracks in the armor. He's not "all in" just yet.
Most NBA players that have the talent to win you ball games make tens of millions of dollars guaranteed and have more influence over an owner than the coach or the GM. There are some player that you can pull that crap with but not the ones that will win you games. They know how valuable they are and how irreplaceable they are.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Hey I never said bench all the starters. Someone thought we were stuck because we could not fire players and I pointed out that there was a way remove problems. There is ont one guy out there tonight I would punish. I might reconsider PPat and Slamons as starters but that is because they are consistantly not geting the job done and Jason and Outlaw are putting in effort and putting up numbers.
BUT IF there is/were a CONSISTENT issue with attitude or effort among ANY player then I would have no problem parking them until something changed.
BUT IF there is/were a CONSISTENT issue with attitude or effort among ANY player then I would have no problem parking them until something changed.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yep yep.
Can't control the refs, but we do need to absolutely slam it into guys like Salmons' and Thorntons' heads that if they ever take another shot not directly passed to them by Boogie himself they're going to get their thumbs broken.
He is still so young that I would expect that to take several years.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
The bus was right on schedule. What are the odds. Is Trollville anywhere near Oakland?
The old "broken thumbs" approach might work
It might take a while, but there's a whole totally different vibe about Demarcus than what has gone on in the past. I don't think it's gonna take him too long to totally buy into Malone's concept.
What we need is a Charles Oakley or a Terry Cummings in the locker room. Hell, in this kindler, gentler NBA, I'd even take a David West.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
No one is irreplaceable. When I was coaching Debate teams every few years some really smart talented kid thought he or she was. We always did just ffine while they watched... As for the NBA all you have to ask your self is what hurt the Jazz more loosing Deron Williams or loosing Sloan?
Trollville is a lot like Brigadoon. You know it's around somewhere but you don't know exactly where until it pops up right in front of you.
Yes.....yes they are. Derron didn't force Sloan out. Sloan had the loyalty of the ownership.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Sloan quit because owner ship did NOT have his back,and the team has been screwed ever since.
This is not true. It simply isn't. Sloan quit because he is an old man and the demands of the NBA (including dealing with young players) made him not like his job anymore. Management(Kevin O' Connor) begged him to come back and the owner cried at his retirement press conference. You don't know what you are talking about. Derron got traded like 2 weeks after Sloan quit. Why would they trade him if they had just fired their hall of fame coach to make him happy?
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
That is NOT what the talk was saying all season about Sloan wanting DW gone, and old men retire, they don't quit mid season. But you will not change your mind nor will persuade me so lets agree to disagree and call it a night.
That makes sense and also explains why Sloan hasn't returned to the game. I didn't especially like his style - and I absolutely HATED how he encouraged thuggery - but he did a good job for Utah for a lot of years.
HC - Nplaim is a Utah fan. I honestly think he might be in a better position to know what really went on.
One mans (or in this case one womans) thuggery is another mans toughness.
Hey, Webber was just sending Stockton a message. Just letting him know he would be the focus of attention. Malone, on the other hand, just liked to hit guys.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
You may very well be correct. I do not know anyone in the organization, all I really know iswaht I read. but at the time the story was:
"After repeated clashes with star point guard Deron Williams and a belief he had become undermined with ownership, Jerry Sloan resigned as the Utah Jazz coach after 23 seasons, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
The increasingly contentious relationship between Sloan and Williams boiled over when they clashed at halftime of a loss to the Chicago Bulls on Wednesday night. The showdown between Sloan and Williams became so heated on Wednesday, at least two Jazz players feared that the coach and star could come to blows – even though the confrontation ended before reaching that point."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AvMBIQ_OPb.Ygo3vJI3eyCS8vLYF?slug=aw-sloanretiring021011
And of course the media frequently gets tings wrong.
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