[Game] Kings vs Rockets Game Thread (Summer League) 7/10/16 6:30 PM ET/3:30 PM PT
- Thread starter nebs
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Chalmers & Cole are available and no we wouldn't have signed them by now because we don't have any more cap space. Make a trade that frees up cap space and start up the negotiations...
Why the fascination with needing to make an impact at PG? Collison was a very good starter with Cousins two years ago. All we need to do is acquire a cheap backup PG & wait until next year when many good FA PGs will be available (hopefully by this time we will be more attractive to free agents). Why are we desperate to find a PG better than Collison right now?
The smart thing to do is to focus on getting the most value for Gay. Narrowing in on only 1 position makes that job much more difficult.
Why the fascination with needing to make an impact at PG? Collison was a very good starter with Cousins two years ago. All we need to do is acquire a cheap backup PG & wait until next year when many good FA PGs will be available (hopefully by this time we will be more attractive to free agents). Why are we desperate to find a PG better than Collison right now?
The smart thing to do is to focus on getting the most value for Gay. Narrowing in on only 1 position makes that job much more difficult.
It still takes two to tango.
If the kings wanted Cole and Cole wanted to come to Sacramento, I think vlade would had made it a priority.
It takes both parties to come to a free agent signing and there are no guarentees that either Cole or an injured chalmers would want to sign here.
Since we have exactly one nba caliber point guard on the roster right now, it is of upmost importance to get another pg.
Secondly, our one and only point guard may be suspended at some point during the season.
If the kings wanted Cole and Cole wanted to come to Sacramento, I think vlade would had made it a priority.
It takes both parties to come to a free agent signing and there are no guarentees that either Cole or an injured chalmers would want to sign here.
Since we have exactly one nba caliber point guard on the roster right now, it is of upmost importance to get another pg.
Secondly, our one and only point guard may be suspended at some point during the season.
I'm personally fascinated with making an impact PG because we only have *one* point guard who is likely going to miss some time due to suspension. Even if this domestic violence case didnt exist, we still have a glaring hole at backup PG. That's an extremely important position to have filled on your roster.
I don't know about you, but I'm tired of losing, and I'm tired of "waiting until next year". I'd love to sign a fantastic PG in free agency next year, but I want to fill this roster with as much talent as possible so we can compete in the 82 games until then.
I don't know about you, but I'm tired of losing, and I'm tired of "waiting until next year". I'd love to sign a fantastic PG in free agency next year, but I want to fill this roster with as much talent as possible so we can compete in the 82 games until then.
Depends on what you mean by solve. If the idea is to get someone to supplant Collison, then no. There were arguably only two PGs that could be considered better than DC on the FA market in Conley and Rondo, and there's a good argument that Rondo isn't better.
But if the idea is to start DC and have a capable backup then there's still Mario Chalmers (if he clears medical), Norris Cole, Kendall Marshall etc. The pickings are slim but there are backup PGs still on the market.
Not a ton of free agent PGs left. Some guys that could be decent backups but that's really it. I like Gibson and I like the idea of the Kings getting their pick back (don't know that Chicago would agree to that though) and I'm meh on McBuckets but I would rather see if Rudy could be moved for a PG either by himself or with Ben and/or Kosta.
But if the idea is to start DC and have a capable backup then there's still Mario Chalmers (if he clears medical), Norris Cole, Kendall Marshall etc. The pickings are slim but there are backup PGs still on the market.
Not a ton of free agent PGs left. Some guys that could be decent backups but that's really it. I like Gibson and I like the idea of the Kings getting their pick back (don't know that Chicago would agree to that though) and I'm meh on McBuckets but I would rather see if Rudy could be moved for a PG either by himself or with Ben and/or Kosta.
You don't know that. You have no idea what's going on behind the scenes and who vlade has/hasn't talked to.
At this point in free agency, players don't necessarily have a lot of choices. It's much easier to lure players like that here when their demand is low (especially if we have 4-8 mil to throw around).
I never said getting a PG is not important. Not once. However, I think we're debating the caliber of PG we want. If the best value we can get in a trade is a PG then yeah let's do it, but let's not play dumb and pretend like that's our only chance at acquiring another PG.
You could even make a McLemore for Devin Harris deal if it comes down to it. McLemore should be able to net a decent backup PG alone, but I'd rather us sign one and use McLemore in a deal to get a pick back.
At this point in free agency, players don't necessarily have a lot of choices. It's much easier to lure players like that here when their demand is low (especially if we have 4-8 mil to throw around).
I never said getting a PG is not important. Not once. However, I think we're debating the caliber of PG we want. If the best value we can get in a trade is a PG then yeah let's do it, but let's not play dumb and pretend like that's our only chance at acquiring another PG.
You could even make a McLemore for Devin Harris deal if it comes down to it. McLemore should be able to net a decent backup PG alone, but I'd rather us sign one and use McLemore in a deal to get a pick back.
Eh, nobody made Norris Cole a priority, that's why he's still out there. And barring a trade that opens up more caproom the Kings only have the room exception to offer. I'm guessing Vlade is either working on a trade for a PG that he thinks will go through and/or he's contacted a few free agent PGs and offered them the room exception.
I think guys are waiting to see if there's a bigger deal out there before settling.
I think guys are waiting to see if there's a bigger deal out there before settling.
Again, when did I say getting another PG was not important? It's very important. It's just a hole that can be filled in a couple different ways.
Sure, I'm tired of losing, but I'd also be mindful about trying to build the best franchise I could which (believe it or not) is not just about this season. I'm not opposed to keeping Gay, but if Gay wants out/isn't happy/isn't going to resign, we'll be losing him for nothing.
Look, would I like trading Gay, Koufos, & McLemore for someone like Bledsoe? Hell yes! But contrary to many posters here, I don't think that's remotely enough value for Bledsoe. Actually, let's just take a look at some of the PGs who have been rumored to be available or could be available...
Bledsoe - Again, Gay/Koufos/McLemore most likely doesn't get it done.
Rubio - I still don't think we have enough value and the fit doesn't make much sense considering we could of just retained Rondo.
Beverley - Perfect fit with Harden (even if he isn't a D'Antoni PG) and the players we're offering don't really jive with their roster.
Dragic - perhaps a possibility if the Heat decide they want a salary dump next year and to build around Whiteside and Winslow. I still have a hard time seeing us have the value but if Heat value the cap space next year then it's possible.
Carter-Williams - don't like the fit with our roster
Payne - I like him a lot but if you're looking for a win now move, that's a difficult one to swallow considering he's still unproven
Knight - Talented kid, but advanced stats do not show him as a player that helps his teams win. I would like him in a sixth man role, but he hinted in April that he doesn't want to come off the bench. If he came in with a team first attitude, turned up the defensive intensity again, and accepted a bench role, I wouldn't mind it (considering his contract isn't that bad: equivalent to around $9 mil a year under the old CBA)
Sure, I'm tired of losing, but I'd also be mindful about trying to build the best franchise I could which (believe it or not) is not just about this season. I'm not opposed to keeping Gay, but if Gay wants out/isn't happy/isn't going to resign, we'll be losing him for nothing.
Look, would I like trading Gay, Koufos, & McLemore for someone like Bledsoe? Hell yes! But contrary to many posters here, I don't think that's remotely enough value for Bledsoe. Actually, let's just take a look at some of the PGs who have been rumored to be available or could be available...
Bledsoe - Again, Gay/Koufos/McLemore most likely doesn't get it done.
Rubio - I still don't think we have enough value and the fit doesn't make much sense considering we could of just retained Rondo.
Beverley - Perfect fit with Harden (even if he isn't a D'Antoni PG) and the players we're offering don't really jive with their roster.
Dragic - perhaps a possibility if the Heat decide they want a salary dump next year and to build around Whiteside and Winslow. I still have a hard time seeing us have the value but if Heat value the cap space next year then it's possible.
Carter-Williams - don't like the fit with our roster
Payne - I like him a lot but if you're looking for a win now move, that's a difficult one to swallow considering he's still unproven
Knight - Talented kid, but advanced stats do not show him as a player that helps his teams win. I would like him in a sixth man role, but he hinted in April that he doesn't want to come off the bench. If he came in with a team first attitude, turned up the defensive intensity again, and accepted a bench role, I wouldn't mind it (considering his contract isn't that bad: equivalent to around $9 mil a year under the old CBA)
That's the whole problem. You don't look at stats - you look at skills and fundamentals and such. And Papa/WCS are not displaying much of these in SL. It's funny, because a few months ago people were all ready to say that WCS could create his own offense, and that Karl had been holding him back the whole time.
Good point.
Now I wouldn't call 2005 recent, but that's just my own personal viewpoint.
I think the 2011 Mavs are a lot different, than the projected 2016/17 Kings. Dirk was operating a lot out of the mid post, but he was more of a finesse player, that prefered to take turn around and fade away jumpshots over getting into the paint or bullying his opponent. Cousins on the other hand will always attack the front of the rim. I personally think good spacing is much more crucial for Cousins, than it was for 2011 Nowitzki.
Now I wouldn't call 2005 recent, but that's just my own personal viewpoint.
I think the 2011 Mavs are a lot different, than the projected 2016/17 Kings. Dirk was operating a lot out of the mid post, but he was more of a finesse player, that prefered to take turn around and fade away jumpshots over getting into the paint or bullying his opponent. Cousins on the other hand will always attack the front of the rim. I personally think good spacing is much more crucial for Cousins, than it was for 2011 Nowitzki.
There are still some free money scattered around NBA landscape. Even if guys don't want to go to the Nets or Sixers, who seemingly are the only teams with space left (there might be more free space somewhere else...), it doesn't mean the end of free agency. Both teams have every intention to at least try to be respectable, so they might take a barely useful player from someone else, and then space opens in another place.
Last season Lin tried to find new home until August after Dallas fiasco, and we are less than 2 weeks removed from the start of off-season.
Last season Lin tried to find new home until August after Dallas fiasco, and we are less than 2 weeks removed from the start of off-season.
Willie came into camp as a rookie out of shape....said so and said "it would never happen again". And now he's not in shape to play in SL. If he wanted to impress the new staff and show he is capable of a more expanded role in the offense, he's not doing a very good job. When he missed that bunny in the second half, that was fatigue. Not finishing plays and getting pushed out of spots is fatigue. Willie also said "no one will outwork me" Oh really, based on your performance in SL it looks like plenty of guys are outworking you. It would make sense after season ended to take about 1 week off to let your body and heal, then back to the grind. That was plenty of time (4-6 weeks) to be ready to play in SL and make a statement you are more than a defensive presence. That hasn't happen and that has to be a disappointment to everyone.
On other hand I am not worried about Papa. Give that guy a summer and we are going to see a different player when training camp rolls around. He needs to transform his body through whole body workout combining cardio and weight. He has the personality where that won't be an issue. The tools are there, wait and see. There are those who look at his low post moves and cringe, but he does a good job of being patient, working to establish position to get his shot. So even though he has NO touch, he's not just playing hot potato with the ball. When big guys suck they will basically get rattled and rush their move under defensive pressure. A player has to have a poise and presence with the ball to be effective and make the right play. Vlade had that and he sees similarity in this raw rookie.
On other hand I am not worried about Papa. Give that guy a summer and we are going to see a different player when training camp rolls around. He needs to transform his body through whole body workout combining cardio and weight. He has the personality where that won't be an issue. The tools are there, wait and see. There are those who look at his low post moves and cringe, but he does a good job of being patient, working to establish position to get his shot. So even though he has NO touch, he's not just playing hot potato with the ball. When big guys suck they will basically get rattled and rush their move under defensive pressure. A player has to have a poise and presence with the ball to be effective and make the right play. Vlade had that and he sees similarity in this raw rookie.
Willie is what he is. My hope is that he gradually adds muscle/weight (he doesn't have the build/frame for a ton, but there's room to get a bit bigger), picks up on the nuances of being a top level defender and improves his ability to box out and grab rebounds. And it'd be really nice if he added a consistent 15-18 foot jumper. There were times when I saw flashes and thought he could end up being much more than a high level defensive role player but honestly, just being an athletic, unbelievably agile 7 foot disruptive force that pairs well with Boogie is enough.
I'm not quite sure what to think of Papagiannis. I agree that we can't get too concerned with the summer league performance of a kid who just turned 19, is adjusting to the much faster pace of the NBA (well pseudo-NBA) game, missed SL practices while FIBA paperwork was finalized and then missed time with knee soreness. His last game was awful and hard to watch but I think he was probably pressing a bit. He looked good in the second half of the first game he played in (and for that matter wasn't far off from what Bender & Poeltl were doing in their first two games) but really struggled yesterday.
I've seen enough from him that I don't think he'll be a bust. With better conditioning and time to adjust to the speed and size of NBA players I think he'll at the very least be a serviceable backup center just based on his size and how well he moves. He hasn't shown it in Summer League thus far but in all the tape I saw of him he also showed great hands. Summer League is routinely a time for fans to get overly excited or upset but as a project center we have to have some patience and give GP the benefit of the doubt for now. I'm not sure the Kings are in a position right now to gamble on having him be the primary backup center behind Boogie but we'll see.
I'm not quite sure what to think of Papagiannis. I agree that we can't get too concerned with the summer league performance of a kid who just turned 19, is adjusting to the much faster pace of the NBA (well pseudo-NBA) game, missed SL practices while FIBA paperwork was finalized and then missed time with knee soreness. His last game was awful and hard to watch but I think he was probably pressing a bit. He looked good in the second half of the first game he played in (and for that matter wasn't far off from what Bender & Poeltl were doing in their first two games) but really struggled yesterday.
I've seen enough from him that I don't think he'll be a bust. With better conditioning and time to adjust to the speed and size of NBA players I think he'll at the very least be a serviceable backup center just based on his size and how well he moves. He hasn't shown it in Summer League thus far but in all the tape I saw of him he also showed great hands. Summer League is routinely a time for fans to get overly excited or upset but as a project center we have to have some patience and give GP the benefit of the doubt for now. I'm not sure the Kings are in a position right now to gamble on having him be the primary backup center behind Boogie but we'll see.
I mostly agree but I see a guy who once he gets an elite shape will have the mobility to defend on the perimeter, get off his feet faster and cover more ground. Fans are seeing the results now are forming conclusions but if you can also see the tools of size and soft hands and a positive attitude with said players high standards, it is not difficult to envision what he can become. The guy is not out of shape but he's pudgy. Imagine when he doubles the amount of weight he can squat and deadlift and transform his physique? Then the game becomes easier and the speed of the game is not overwhelming.
I think if it comes down to holding onto Koufos as a back-up center or needing to include him in a deal to secure PG help, Vlade needs to deal him, as long as the deal makes sense long term. Keeping Koufos around, as competent as he is, does not need to be a priority.
I think if it comes down to holding onto Koufos as a back-up center or needing to include him in a deal to secure PG help, Vlade needs to deal him, as long as the deal makes sense long term. Keeping Koufos around, as competent as he is, does not need to be a priority.
I like Kosta a lot but considering how poorly he teamed with DeMarcus he's not a guy that has to be retained. And of course if the Kings really don't want to have to count on Papagiannis right out of the gate they can always sign a veteran big man as a stopgap option. Given that any trade is likely to be the Kings sending out more than they get back (3 for 1, 2 for 1, 3 for 2 etc) then they'll have the roster slot for a guy like Zeller, McGee, Hollins, Sims maybe even Moreland.
I read the story on WCS about when he was in China after the season. Said he wasn't really bold enough to try most of the food, and ended up eating KFC almost every day (or something like that). I hope that was just in China, but maybe he needs a little work with his diet. Too much KFC isn't a good thing for anyone, let alone an NBA player!
I have some question too about the offense we are running.
Specifically:
1) Joerger ran a big man post offense in Memphis, haven't analyzed yet if the sets look similar to what we are using in SL
2) we have the preeminent big man in the league as our centerpiece, so this offense may be designed around him/that reality
3) WCS last year, and of course through college was always just a finisher, not a throw it to him in the post guy. A roleplayer offensively. And as I mentioend when I saw the Papa tapes from overseas, that was all those tapes showed too -- big guy who rolled well to the hoop, and had good hands and a soft touch as a finisher. But there was no evidence of a post game/ 1 on 1 ability.
Now in summer league, these two big centers who as far as can be told have always been simple finishers, have been asked to go 1 on 1 and create their own shots inside, and they have really struggled. So how much of this is just us misusing them? And also, how important is that ability for them in the regular season? I can see arguments either way -- either Cuz will be taking care of all the 1 on 1 stuff regular season, so guys like WCD and Papa can jsut go back to roleplaying/finsihing. Or alternatively, this is a key part of what Joerger wants from his bigs, and WCS and Papa both lacking post up ability could be a major wart for them from Joerger's perspective. Even Koufos has considerably more reliable 1 on 1 ability just with that little half hook/flip stuff.
Remember tht in Joerger's two strong years in Memphis before injuries got them last year, the 3 bigs man rotation was Gasol/Zbo/Koufos. So post/post/Koufos. Well Cuz is almost as prolific as Gasol and Zbo combined, and we still have Koufos, but how key is it from Joerger's perspective that the other big guy be able to be a goto guy inside?
Also another point of interest for Skal, who is a real talent who has shown both a good post game and range out to three. Not clear if he can get the post shots over fullsized NBA guys, but might his offensive skills fit more with what Joerger wants here?
Specifically:
1) Joerger ran a big man post offense in Memphis, haven't analyzed yet if the sets look similar to what we are using in SL
2) we have the preeminent big man in the league as our centerpiece, so this offense may be designed around him/that reality
3) WCS last year, and of course through college was always just a finisher, not a throw it to him in the post guy. A roleplayer offensively. And as I mentioend when I saw the Papa tapes from overseas, that was all those tapes showed too -- big guy who rolled well to the hoop, and had good hands and a soft touch as a finisher. But there was no evidence of a post game/ 1 on 1 ability.
Now in summer league, these two big centers who as far as can be told have always been simple finishers, have been asked to go 1 on 1 and create their own shots inside, and they have really struggled. So how much of this is just us misusing them? And also, how important is that ability for them in the regular season? I can see arguments either way -- either Cuz will be taking care of all the 1 on 1 stuff regular season, so guys like WCD and Papa can jsut go back to roleplaying/finsihing. Or alternatively, this is a key part of what Joerger wants from his bigs, and WCS and Papa both lacking post up ability could be a major wart for them from Joerger's perspective. Even Koufos has considerably more reliable 1 on 1 ability just with that little half hook/flip stuff.
Remember tht in Joerger's two strong years in Memphis before injuries got them last year, the 3 bigs man rotation was Gasol/Zbo/Koufos. So post/post/Koufos. Well Cuz is almost as prolific as Gasol and Zbo combined, and we still have Koufos, but how key is it from Joerger's perspective that the other big guy be able to be a goto guy inside?
Also another point of interest for Skal, who is a real talent who has shown both a good post game and range out to three. Not clear if he can get the post shots over fullsized NBA guys, but might his offensive skills fit more with what Joerger wants here?
Brickie, if I had to venture a guess on the usage of GP and WCS in SL, maybe Joegs wants to get them both comfortable with trying to create for themselves and initiate the offense from the high post. Cant imagine a better scenario than that.
Edit: not saying thats what he plans on having them do full time in the RS, but maybe a couple/few times a game. Especially Willie.
Edit: not saying thats what he plans on having them do full time in the RS, but maybe a couple/few times a game. Especially Willie.
I don't think Joerger cares one bit about our record this summer league. This summer league is for one thing and that's to see who can do what. For example, the major gripe WCS had with Karl was that he wasn't being used on offense enough/appropriately, so Joerger says here's the ball, do something now that you have it. Richardson, Papa, and Skal are all unknowns, so again he is exploring who can do what and what the limits are.
Perhaps he has realized by now he can't count on the young guys (the bigs in particular), so maybe Vlade is formulating a different kind of plan so coach can play the style he likes. As constructed right now, our entire offense (and I mean entire offense) is going to be throw it down to Cuz and play off of that. Cousins might very well be shooting the ball 25+ times a game this season, especially if we trade Rudy too. In all honesty, I think we were considerably more talented this last season than we are this upcoming season (for now?). We have changed our culture significantly this offseason, basically picking up scrappy role-players left and right, but after Cousins (I am assuming Rudy will be gone), we have no one to turn to on offense. Our entire gameplay will be to scrap like hell and squeak out victories. I am not sure how that will work out for us, but I guess we will see.
Perhaps he has realized by now he can't count on the young guys (the bigs in particular), so maybe Vlade is formulating a different kind of plan so coach can play the style he likes. As constructed right now, our entire offense (and I mean entire offense) is going to be throw it down to Cuz and play off of that. Cousins might very well be shooting the ball 25+ times a game this season, especially if we trade Rudy too. In all honesty, I think we were considerably more talented this last season than we are this upcoming season (for now?). We have changed our culture significantly this offseason, basically picking up scrappy role-players left and right, but after Cousins (I am assuming Rudy will be gone), we have no one to turn to on offense. Our entire gameplay will be to scrap like hell and squeak out victories. I am not sure how that will work out for us, but I guess we will see.
We have a bunch of defensive role players, I don't think any of them will score 20pts per game
We really need to keep Rudy so we at least have two scoring options. If one of the two fouls out or is injured we at least
have one on the floor. We have enough defensive players to cover Rudy's ave defense
We go last year with an unbalanced offensive team, no we are going to an unbalanced defensive team , Really?
We don't have ANY big time back court scorers WHO?
Please Keep Rudy, and Koufos - Trade Ben for a pic , Sign Norris Cole Boom offense and defensive balance
If Rudy don't like it trade him at the Feb deadline to a contender that needs offense for picks and injured expirings
We really need to keep Rudy so we at least have two scoring options. If one of the two fouls out or is injured we at least
have one on the floor. We have enough defensive players to cover Rudy's ave defense
We go last year with an unbalanced offensive team, no we are going to an unbalanced defensive team , Really?
We don't have ANY big time back court scorers WHO?
Please Keep Rudy, and Koufos - Trade Ben for a pic , Sign Norris Cole Boom offense and defensive balance
If Rudy don't like it trade him at the Feb deadline to a contender that needs offense for picks and injured expirings
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That works for a little while but it only gets you so far. You can't be putting all that burden on one players shoulder. Cousins isn't capable of carrying a team on his own IMO, he isn't LeBron. He needs more scorers on the team and right now...the inevitable Rudy trade is going down, whether it's in the off season or re-visited in February remains to be seen.
People miss the fact, that in current NBA post game is needed for bigs to punish the other team when defended by a wing. For WCS that especially can be a problem. No one wants young guys to wrestle with MGasol or Bogut. Just deal with Marvin Williams, Harrison Barnes or chandler Parsons at 4, although my first example might have been too ambitious as Marvin has become a good post defender over the years.
It seems you ask a simple question in convoluted way, which is what is Boogie's optimal usage given new players, system and coaches? If his efficiency persists then the his usage needs to come down. His turnover rate and TS% is not good enough to win consistently.
If he can get his TS% to 55% or 56% and assist to turnover to 1.0 or better, with help of new elite conditioning, new system and new starting PG as more of offensive threat, then FEED THE BEAST. The counter to this is to say "Well, why not give it to him anyway, it beats giving the ball to Willie or Papa on low block." Yet if said player cannot handle the load without cracking every third game with 6 for 24 FGs with 5 TOs then diversification is in collective best interest, using your best player as a decoy and running plays for other players.
The idea is not to get any one person their shots, but get the BEST shot on every possession. I think we will see is Papa and Willie catching the ball in the high post, not necessarily but because "their number is called", but because it gives the team options, looking to feed into Boogie, or screening and rolling from the middle of the floor.
Even though Willie and Papa are limited in their low posts move, though both have potential, they can see over the D from the top of the key. This is not a bad way to initiate offense for shooters coming off baseline screens, for Boogie to carve out room in the paint to receive the pass. If you expect the team to be successful with this predictable offense when Boogie is using up over 30% of possessions with other players standing and watching, it is NOT going to work.
Boogie has already shown he lacks the temperament, discipline and low post arsenal to make this work. Defenses can too easily send help. Unless he has dominant position in the paint a player is less of a threat with his back to his basket than facing, since he is unable to survey the floor as readily. Fortunately we have a coach now who has an endless playbook to maximize the skills of ALL players, not just cater to ONE, as Karl and Rondo did last year, to the exclusion of Rudy, and unmitigated failure to all.
If he can get his TS% to 55% or 56% and assist to turnover to 1.0 or better, with help of new elite conditioning, new system and new starting PG as more of offensive threat, then FEED THE BEAST. The counter to this is to say "Well, why not give it to him anyway, it beats giving the ball to Willie or Papa on low block." Yet if said player cannot handle the load without cracking every third game with 6 for 24 FGs with 5 TOs then diversification is in collective best interest, using your best player as a decoy and running plays for other players.
The idea is not to get any one person their shots, but get the BEST shot on every possession. I think we will see is Papa and Willie catching the ball in the high post, not necessarily but because "their number is called", but because it gives the team options, looking to feed into Boogie, or screening and rolling from the middle of the floor.
Even though Willie and Papa are limited in their low posts move, though both have potential, they can see over the D from the top of the key. This is not a bad way to initiate offense for shooters coming off baseline screens, for Boogie to carve out room in the paint to receive the pass. If you expect the team to be successful with this predictable offense when Boogie is using up over 30% of possessions with other players standing and watching, it is NOT going to work.
Boogie has already shown he lacks the temperament, discipline and low post arsenal to make this work. Defenses can too easily send help. Unless he has dominant position in the paint a player is less of a threat with his back to his basket than facing, since he is unable to survey the floor as readily. Fortunately we have a coach now who has an endless playbook to maximize the skills of ALL players, not just cater to ONE, as Karl and Rondo did last year, to the exclusion of Rudy, and unmitigated failure to all.
That's not the question I asked at all. That's your obsession, not the rest of ours.
My convoluted question itself came down to:
Why is Joerger running this summer league offense? Check all that apply:
a) because it was his Memphis offense
b) because this will be our Boogie offense come fall and he just plugged in our other centers into Boogie sets
c) he wanted to teach our other centers how to play in the post/ 1 on 1, likely because either a) or b) will be true in the fall
d) he wanted to teach our other centers how to play in the post/ 1 on 1, but in the fall it won't matter
d) he actually thought WCS and Papa were or could be goto post guys, and is likely disappointed by results
Meanwhile the Boogie question has never been a question: you use him correctly and his efficiency is right in line with great bigs of the past from Duncan to Hakeem to Ewing to Moses. However as the resident worst franchise in basketball, the Kings have collectively been run by a succession of blithering basketball idiots barely fit for Mr. Slim to wipe with. So in 6 years with the franchise the grand total of coaches who have used Boogie correctly, which is to say as a dominant big man, has been 1: Malone. And in Malone's 1+ years at the helm Boogie's TS% was .561. Tim Duncan just retired with a career .551. Ewing also had a career .551. Hakeem had a career .553. And having seen those guys play, not a one of them could have improved upon those percentages asked to do the stupid crap Boogie has been asked to do for big-man ignorant coaches such as Keith Smart and George Karl. That problem has been solved now by Vlade seizing control of the front office and essentially undoing the Malone firing.
My convoluted question itself came down to:
Why is Joerger running this summer league offense? Check all that apply:
a) because it was his Memphis offense
b) because this will be our Boogie offense come fall and he just plugged in our other centers into Boogie sets
c) he wanted to teach our other centers how to play in the post/ 1 on 1, likely because either a) or b) will be true in the fall
d) he wanted to teach our other centers how to play in the post/ 1 on 1, but in the fall it won't matter
d) he actually thought WCS and Papa were or could be goto post guys, and is likely disappointed by results
Meanwhile the Boogie question has never been a question: you use him correctly and his efficiency is right in line with great bigs of the past from Duncan to Hakeem to Ewing to Moses. However as the resident worst franchise in basketball, the Kings have collectively been run by a succession of blithering basketball idiots barely fit for Mr. Slim to wipe with. So in 6 years with the franchise the grand total of coaches who have used Boogie correctly, which is to say as a dominant big man, has been 1: Malone. And in Malone's 1+ years at the helm Boogie's TS% was .561. Tim Duncan just retired with a career .551. Ewing also had a career .551. Hakeem had a career .553. And having seen those guys play, not a one of them could have improved upon those percentages asked to do the stupid crap Boogie has been asked to do for big-man ignorant coaches such as Keith Smart and George Karl. That problem has been solved now by Vlade seizing control of the front office and essentially undoing the Malone firing.
Your opinion is not consistent with Boogie posting career high in points with efficiency consistent with his career average under Karl. This blithering idiot helped him to light up the scoreboard including 108 points in two games. Wow, what a ball and chain he was 
Your opinion that he was used correctly under Malone is just that. I would contend the slight but NOT drastic difference in his TS% was a function of having more scoring weapons around him at the time, namely Isaiah Thomas and Darren as starting PGs instead of Rondo, and making better use of Rudy at the time. His assist to turnover rate back then was still atrocious, so not sure about the system being ideal for him or whatever.
Our man still has A LOT to prove and I look forward to him doing so. The fact that he has chosen to slim down against your better judgement is a step in the right direction.
Your opinion that he was used correctly under Malone is just that. I would contend the slight but NOT drastic difference in his TS% was a function of having more scoring weapons around him at the time, namely Isaiah Thomas and Darren as starting PGs instead of Rondo, and making better use of Rudy at the time. His assist to turnover rate back then was still atrocious, so not sure about the system being ideal for him or whatever. Our man still has A LOT to prove and I look forward to him doing so. The fact that he has chosen to slim down against your better judgement is a step in the right direction.
Your opinion is not consistent with Boogie posting career high in points with efficiency consistent with his career average under Karl. This blithering idiot helped him to light up the scoreboard including 108 points in two games. Wow, what a ball and chain he was Your opinion that he was used correctly under Malone is just that. I would contend the slight but NOT drastic difference in his TS% was a function of having more scoring weapons around him at the time, namely Isaiah Thomas and Darren as starting PGs instead of Rondo, and making better use of Rudy at the time. His assist to turnover rate back then was still atrocious, so not sure about the system being ideal for him or whatever.
Our man still has A LOT to prove and I look forward to him doing so. The fact that he has chosen to slim down against your better judgement is a step in the right direction.
Your opinion that he was used correctly under Malone is just that. I would contend the slight but NOT drastic difference in his TS% was a function of having more scoring weapons around him at the time, namely Isaiah Thomas and Darren as starting PGs instead of Rondo, and making better use of Rudy at the time. His assist to turnover rate back then was still atrocious, so not sure about the system being ideal for him or whatever.Our man still has A LOT to prove and I look forward to him doing so. The fact that he has chosen to slim down against your better judgement is a step in the right direction.