[Game] Kings vs Rockets Game Thread (Summer League) 7/10/16 6:30 PM ET/3:30 PM PT
- Thread starter nebs
- Start date
What the hell do SL wins have to do with anything?
I'm talking about the players we are hoping might step up this year and play a role on the team.
Other than Malachi Richardson, is there anyone (including WCS) that looks like they may be able to contribute this year in the NBA?
We all know David Stockton can't compete at the NBA level against serious competition. It doesn;t matter what BBall IQ he possesses if he doesn;t have the physical skills to be on an NBA court.
Willie has looked like crap, and I'm a big fan of his promise.
He should be playing remarkably in SL, against this weak of talent, if he's realistically expecting to play >20 minutes a game.
Isn't he penciled in to be the starting PF for the Kings this season?!
There are huge holes currently in the lineup, and there is a huge chance that a few of these SL players are going to be playing significant minutes for the Kings this year.
If the lineup is (neglecting Gay and McLemore):
Darren Collison / Garrett Temple / Isaiah Cousins
Arron Afflalo / Garrett Temple / Malachi Richardson
Omri Casspi / Matt Barnes
Willie Cauley-Stein / Anthony Tolliver / Skal Labissiere
DeMarcus Cousins / Kosta Koufos / Georgios Papagianni
... then we look pretty darn thin at PF, PG, and SG.
That lineup would require Afflalo, Temple, and WCS/Tolliver to be playing big minutes.
And god forbid any of them get injured, suspended, etc....
I'm talking about the players we are hoping might step up this year and play a role on the team.
Other than Malachi Richardson, is there anyone (including WCS) that looks like they may be able to contribute this year in the NBA?
We all know David Stockton can't compete at the NBA level against serious competition. It doesn;t matter what BBall IQ he possesses if he doesn;t have the physical skills to be on an NBA court.
Willie has looked like crap, and I'm a big fan of his promise.
He should be playing remarkably in SL, against this weak of talent, if he's realistically expecting to play >20 minutes a game.
Isn't he penciled in to be the starting PF for the Kings this season?!
There are huge holes currently in the lineup, and there is a huge chance that a few of these SL players are going to be playing significant minutes for the Kings this year.
If the lineup is (neglecting Gay and McLemore):
Darren Collison / Garrett Temple / Isaiah Cousins
Arron Afflalo / Garrett Temple / Malachi Richardson
Omri Casspi / Matt Barnes
Willie Cauley-Stein / Anthony Tolliver / Skal Labissiere
DeMarcus Cousins / Kosta Koufos / Georgios Papagianni
... then we look pretty darn thin at PF, PG, and SG.
That lineup would require Afflalo, Temple, and WCS/Tolliver to be playing big minutes.
And god forbid any of them get injured, suspended, etc....
Game 2
Positives
Positives
- Malachi looks like he can contribute this season in a bench role, somebody stepped up.
- Stockton was good. Not gonna help the team but he's at least making the Kings somewhat respectable in the SL
- Skal played alright I thought in limited minutes. He'll probably play 5 minutes a game
- WCS, I know he's a role player but his effort sucks. He isn't boxing out and looks like he'd rather be elsewhere. Starting to think maybe we need to keep Koufos.
- Papa has a lot of work to do. Understatement. Good touch but one-on-one post moves he's pretty bad right now.
- Woodbury sucks, but I could have told you guys that from watching him in college.
Sorry weak analysis IMHO. First of all Stockton is terrible no matter how much the commentators wanted to talk him up. Don't be fooled by his last name. He's a D-Leaguer for life and will never be anything more. He's turnover prone and shot happy and he can't shoot. Not a good combination.
Willie is struggling with a role in which he's being asked to do more than he was ever asked to do, that is, initiate offense and make plays out of the high and low post. Give him a chance to adjust to an expanded role. It doesn't mean he wants to be somewhere else. And Papa is a guy who immediately can set DEVASTATING picks to get guys open and clear space in the key to prevent drives and have guys think twice about entering. He's so big too, opponents are going to be reluctant to even go to the offensive boards. He does a good job of sealing his man immediately after the shot goes up. He needs to work on his conditioning and obviously his touch on his low post moves but he's WAY WAY WAY ahead of Marc Gasol at same age and Gasol didn't turn out half bad.
Willie is struggling with a role in which he's being asked to do more than he was ever asked to do, that is, initiate offense and make plays out of the high and low post. Give him a chance to adjust to an expanded role. It doesn't mean he wants to be somewhere else. And Papa is a guy who immediately can set DEVASTATING picks to get guys open and clear space in the key to prevent drives and have guys think twice about entering. He's so big too, opponents are going to be reluctant to even go to the offensive boards. He does a good job of sealing his man immediately after the shot goes up. He needs to work on his conditioning and obviously his touch on his low post moves but he's WAY WAY WAY ahead of Marc Gasol at same age and Gasol didn't turn out half bad.
He's a good energetic role player with length and quickness but weak rebounding fundamentals. The great thing is that's really all we need him to be (sans the poor rebounding part) for us, as long as he is great in providing defense and hustle. That's what we drafted him for. In that regard, yes he will look much better playing with Cousins. What I take issue with is the idea that he can be some 15ppg scorer or effectively create his own offense. Karl was crucified here for saying Willie couldn't create his own offense, made worse only because beloved DeMarcus Cousins took the opposite position (as if any good team mate would ever speak badly about someone else on the team). As Baja always says, the truth is usually somewhere in between the two extremes. Could WCS develop into such a player some day? Perhaps, but he surely doesn't have the skill set right now.
Summer league is what it is - but it also shows what skills a player may or may not have. The issue is usually that it doesn't translate into the NBA (see: Jimmer, Donte Greene), but rarely do you have a guy not show any flashes at all in summer league and suddenly burst out a completely different skill set in the regular season. Fundamentals are also made evident - you see whether a guy has good hands, whether he has a good feel for the game, whether he scraps, how his ball handling is etc.
Summer league is what it is - but it also shows what skills a player may or may not have. The issue is usually that it doesn't translate into the NBA (see: Jimmer, Donte Greene), but rarely do you have a guy not show any flashes at all in summer league and suddenly burst out a completely different skill set in the regular season. Fundamentals are also made evident - you see whether a guy has good hands, whether he has a good feel for the game, whether he scraps, how his ball handling is etc.
WCS can rebound when he puts his mind to it.
Like others have mentioned, he's being asked to focus on other things this SL.
Not that I'm trying to make excuses for him, his rebounding is pretty crap considering he's 7' tall and can jump outta the gym, I'm just not ready to write off a guy who had a pretty solid rookie season after a couple bad SL outings. He'll get coached up by the new staff.
WCS aside, we got ourselves an intriguing crop of rookies, so that's cool!
Like others have mentioned, he's being asked to focus on other things this SL.
Not that I'm trying to make excuses for him, his rebounding is pretty crap considering he's 7' tall and can jump outta the gym, I'm just not ready to write off a guy who had a pretty solid rookie season after a couple bad SL outings. He'll get coached up by the new staff.
WCS aside, we got ourselves an intriguing crop of rookies, so that's cool!
K
Literally came in here to post the exact same thing the big difference between the 2 is Papa seems taller and Nurkic has better feet in terms of movement.
Really liked what I saw from Richardson seems like he has all the tools including confidents looks like a rotation player for us in the future and Skal with a bit of muscle looks like another rotation player, the talent/potential is there for all our core young guys other than Ben imo.
While I expected better from WCS the reality is he's a 100% instinct player which means you can't put him in the positions he's got the ball in SL, imo he will look better with better players and plus he could be unmotivated to play in the SL I mean Solomon Hill in last years SL was one of the worst player on the Pacer roster and was a key in there playoff push/run.
Really liked what I saw from Richardson seems like he has all the tools including confidents looks like a rotation player for us in the future and Skal with a bit of muscle looks like another rotation player, the talent/potential is there for all our core young guys other than Ben imo.
While I expected better from WCS the reality is he's a 100% instinct player which means you can't put him in the positions he's got the ball in SL, imo he will look better with better players and plus he could be unmotivated to play in the SL I mean Solomon Hill in last years SL was one of the worst player on the Pacer roster and was a key in there playoff push/run.
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I won't give WCS a pass. He is a former lottery pick and one of our key players, if we want to get into the Playoffs. He should dominate in certain aspects of the game versus SL competition. People always talk about Willie like he is a defensive game changer. If that's true, we should see it in SL. I can live with his offensive shortcomings, even though I think, that he maybe shouldn't boast about Karl holding him back, only to showcase exactly what Karl accused him of. And I think with the way Joerger wants to play, we can't field a lineup with a guy, who isn't able to do anything besides lobs and putbacks on offense. We could do that with Rondo in place, but with DC running the point things will be different.
Harrel was the #32 pick last year and made Willie, our starting PF for next season, look like a rookie. Skal, a guy most claimed to be years away from contributing anything, outplayed Willie during these two games. Our 18 year old center prospect has way better rebounding fundamentals than Willie and at least crashes the board hard every time.
It's time for Willie to show some pride.
And Solomon Hill indeed looked equally disinsterested and bad in SL last year. But afterwards it took him half a season to get off the bench for the Pacers, because Vogel lost all trust in him. That shouldn't be the blueprint for WCS's behaviour or we are in big trouble.
Harrel was the #32 pick last year and made Willie, our starting PF for next season, look like a rookie. Skal, a guy most claimed to be years away from contributing anything, outplayed Willie during these two games. Our 18 year old center prospect has way better rebounding fundamentals than Willie and at least crashes the board hard every time.
It's time for Willie to show some pride.
And Solomon Hill indeed looked equally disinsterested and bad in SL last year. But afterwards it took him half a season to get off the bench for the Pacers, because Vogel lost all trust in him. That shouldn't be the blueprint for WCS's behaviour or we are in big trouble.
Really no need for all that.
I again throw this out: Willie's contributions were NEVER supposed to be, nor needed to be, on the offensive side. Unlike some, I almost see a harm in fostering the thought they are. Its hard to be an elite defender. Requires dedication, focus and a great deal of pride in it. If we, or anybody, starts puffing Willie up with "be da supasta!" pride, it could damage his progress and even have him thinking of leaving one day so he could go show his true skillz, like the pitch Cuban threw on DeAndre last year (and Willie is more skilled than DeAndre).
Willie's defensive fit next to Cousins is still excellent. It covers up his weaknesses, and he covers up some of Cuz's. He doesn't need to have goto moves in the post. He doesn't even need to be a great rebounder, because Cuz takes care of that. If he's working on any offense, the most useful thing would be a 15-18 foot facing catch and shot jumper.
He's not a bust, and not a problem fit, unless we screw with a simple thing and make him into one. Just slot him next to Cuz, let him focus on chasing guys on the perimeter, chasing them in transition, getting back to stop opoonent breaks , weakside shotblocking etc. Cousins can take care of the rest of it. Every kid always wants to do everything. the best teachers are the ones that draw out the things they do best and get them to focus on them, not somebody enabling the 'I'm LeBron James!!!" fantasy.
I again throw this out: Willie's contributions were NEVER supposed to be, nor needed to be, on the offensive side. Unlike some, I almost see a harm in fostering the thought they are. Its hard to be an elite defender. Requires dedication, focus and a great deal of pride in it. If we, or anybody, starts puffing Willie up with "be da supasta!" pride, it could damage his progress and even have him thinking of leaving one day so he could go show his true skillz, like the pitch Cuban threw on DeAndre last year (and Willie is more skilled than DeAndre).
Willie's defensive fit next to Cousins is still excellent. It covers up his weaknesses, and he covers up some of Cuz's. He doesn't need to have goto moves in the post. He doesn't even need to be a great rebounder, because Cuz takes care of that. If he's working on any offense, the most useful thing would be a 15-18 foot facing catch and shot jumper.
He's not a bust, and not a problem fit, unless we screw with a simple thing and make him into one. Just slot him next to Cuz, let him focus on chasing guys on the perimeter, chasing them in transition, getting back to stop opoonent breaks , weakside shotblocking etc. Cousins can take care of the rest of it. Every kid always wants to do everything. the best teachers are the ones that draw out the things they do best and get them to focus on them, not somebody enabling the 'I'm LeBron James!!!" fantasy.
Noone expects Willie to be a superstar. Again - if he is a good defender, he should show just that in SL. So far he didn't show anything this SL other than that he is 7ft tall and has otherwordly coordination for someone that tall.
And again - if you want to run an offense through Cousins with the PG position being below league average with DC and X, you take a certain risk to play a defense only guy as the second big. I know in the 90's this was no problem, but can you think of one team that did that during the recent years? I can't.
All I want is Willie to step up to the expectations - be disruptive, rebound, block shots, run the floor and show some promise on offense.
I don't want to read all the "what if"-comments once again in a year or so.
And again - if you want to run an offense through Cousins with the PG position being below league average with DC and X, you take a certain risk to play a defense only guy as the second big. I know in the 90's this was no problem, but can you think of one team that did that during the recent years? I can't.
All I want is Willie to step up to the expectations - be disruptive, rebound, block shots, run the floor and show some promise on offense.
I don't want to read all the "what if"-comments once again in a year or so.
Summer league is not always a good indication of things to come. I remember one summer Andrei Kirilenko was getting his butt kicked, he went 0 for 12 or something in one game, missed all the dunks/layups and was fouling everyone and his mother. And then the regular season rolled around and he had a breakout year.
On the flip side, Maciej Lampe, Lonny Baxter, Pavel Podkolzin, and Patrick O'Bryant had very good summer league stats wise. But many people who watched the game could tell they sucked.
I'm not worry about WCS at all. He needs to work on his rebounding and making FTs; but that's pretty much it as for as his role requires.
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On the flip side, Maciej Lampe, Lonny Baxter, Pavel Podkolzin, and Patrick O'Bryant had very good summer league stats wise. But many people who watched the game could tell they sucked.
I'm not worry about WCS at all. He needs to work on his rebounding and making FTs; but that's pretty much it as for as his role requires.
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Be patient. WCS was a good pick who showed signs of real talent last year, and just needs to be brought along slowly. He has a learning curve that is doing just fine and needs a least another year or two to bring him to a productive starting status. Karl did a nice job f bringing him along last year. Our board built too high an expectation for him last year.
Would not mind at all making a trade for a starting PF to push Cauley-Stein to the bench this year. A guy like Gibson would be perfect (savvy, defensive minded vet who expires next year).
Gay & Koufos for Gibson, McDermott, & the Kings 2017 1st makes sense for both sides in my opinion.
We get a starting PF for a year, free up the logjam at C, get a young SF on a rookie deal, and get our 1st rounder back next year. For an expiring Gay & an unnecessary Koufos, grabbing two long term assets (McDermott & 2017 1st) while grabbing a PF that can help us bring Cauley-Stein along is a pretty good deal.
Chicago does it to acquire a sixth man and make room for Mirotic to start at PF (considering they are going to need all the spacing they can get with Rondo, Wade, Butler out there). They also get a backup C who can spell Lopez for 20 minutes a night.
Gay & Koufos for Gibson, McDermott, & the Kings 2017 1st makes sense for both sides in my opinion.
We get a starting PF for a year, free up the logjam at C, get a young SF on a rookie deal, and get our 1st rounder back next year. For an expiring Gay & an unnecessary Koufos, grabbing two long term assets (McDermott & 2017 1st) while grabbing a PF that can help us bring Cauley-Stein along is a pretty good deal.
Chicago does it to acquire a sixth man and make room for Mirotic to start at PF (considering they are going to need all the spacing they can get with Rondo, Wade, Butler out there). They also get a backup C who can spell Lopez for 20 minutes a night.
We need to concentrate on getting a Point Guard for Gay, KK and/or Ben.
We have too many bigs to begin with, no need for more, especially one year rentals that will impede the growth of WCS.
WCS will be fine. He needs to play within himself, which he will next to DMC. Come the regular season, all we need from WCS is to play solid defense, block some shots, rebound at a decent clip and score on put backs and alley oops.
We have too many bigs to begin with, no need for more, especially one year rentals that will impede the growth of WCS.
WCS will be fine. He needs to play within himself, which he will next to DMC. Come the regular season, all we need from WCS is to play solid defense, block some shots, rebound at a decent clip and score on put backs and alley oops.
At this point I'd probably do that deal, but that still leaves the Kings without any PG depth. Unless the extra caproom created by the trade is used to sign a PG or McLemore is dealt for one the Kings will be relatively dead in the water if anything happens to Collison. Like say - I don't know - a suspension to start the season.
No we don't.
We need to focus on getting an asset that doesn't expire next season. If the asset we're acquiring is not a PG, then our trade better give us a little extra cap space to go out and sign a backup PG. I don't understand the fascination with NEEDING to trade for a PG. You are limiting your options which is not what smart GMs do. Get the best value back. If it's a PG, great. If it's not, sign one.
We need to focus on getting an asset that doesn't expire next season. If the asset we're acquiring is not a PG, then our trade better give us a little extra cap space to go out and sign a backup PG. I don't understand the fascination with NEEDING to trade for a PG. You are limiting your options which is not what smart GMs do. Get the best value back. If it's a PG, great. If it's not, sign one.
Ummm... there are no more free agents that would solve our point guard situation.... otherwise we would have signed them by now...
The ONLY way to make an impact at Point Guard right now is through a trade and if you use all our tradable assets for another Power Forward and another Small Forward, that means no legitimate point guard help this year.
The ONLY way to make an impact at Point Guard right now is through a trade and if you use all our tradable assets for another Power Forward and another Small Forward, that means no legitimate point guard help this year.