[Game] Kings v. Lakers - 12/12/16 - 7:30PT/10:30ET

[funkykingston]

Koufos plays 19.5 minutes per game. Only Tolliver, Ben and Willie play less minutes. A good part of his minutes are without DMC on the floor.
Temple plays 22.3 minutes per game. Afflalo plays 24.2 mpg. I guess with Afflalos recent play things will change in the future.

Should Temple play more? I definately think so. Should Temple start? I honestly don't care at all. Should Temple finish games? Yes under all circumstances, because he is our best defender and can knock down open shots! But as far as I remember Temple is on the court in most close games in the 4th.

Now, who should start over Koufos?

Willie? You can't be serious. Willie has done nothing to earn minutes. He is coasting through games, his effort level is insulting and he isn't playing like the once in the decade athlete he is. All the athleticism in the world and he isn't using it. In this Lakers game alone, there were 4 situations, where Willie could have prevented the easy basket by quickly rotating or hustling down the floor and he simply stood there watching or trotted back, like he didn't care. He is tailormade for a high energy, weak side help defender, but he doesn't want to play like one.

Matt Barnes? His performances were shaky this season. Sadly he is declining and his body is more suited to play SF, than to play small ball 4.

Omri Casspi? From my point of view, this is the only true alternative to Koufos starting. Casspi spaces the floor, he hustles like crazy and he is bulky enough to play small ball 4. Coach Joerger seems to be realizing, how valuable Casspi can be, because he is giving more and more minutes to him. But Casspi is also needed with our bench unit, because he is one of the guys able to get something on his own on offense and is the best, when it comes to off the ball movement on this team, which makes him a good fit with a pass first PG like Lawson.

Tolliver? His shot isn't falling and when his shot isn't falling Tolliver is basically useless.

I understand the criticism. I'm a supporter of smaller lineups around Cousins and I'm not a fan or Cuz+KK. But it's not like Joerger is an idiot or like he doesn't have a clue, what he is doing with the lineups.
Joerger came into SAC and gave the initial minutes to the guys, he knew like KK and Barnes. He gave minutes to Afflalo, because he was the biggest FA addition in the offseason and of course we should find a way to make it work with Affalo to justify the money, we are paying him. Now he is starting to shake things up. Afflalo is in the dog house, because of his poor performances.

I think Joerger is getting there. We are all frustrated beyond believe. And we feel, like we are running out of time. But Joerger has to manage all the personalities on the team. He has to be cautious not to lose the team.
You don't bench a guy, who you pay 12 millions per year and who you most likely brought in to be your starting SG, right away for a guy like Garret Temple.
If you want to change the culture, you stick to the guys with the right attitude you already know at the start.
And starting big, while playing small for the majority of the minutes isn't uncommon.

I like Koufos. Very solid interior defender, plays the pick & roll well, has decent hands and is able to score off dump offs and put backs and rebounds fairly well. Always ready to play and gives good effort.

But what he doesn't give you is low post scoring where you can make up for a mismatch on the one end by having two bigs where you can throw the ball into either one and punish teams on the other end.

Some nights it doesn't hurt the Kings but more often than not it contributes to slow starts and having to play out of a hole. Even the Lakers last night jumped out to an early lead.

And tomorrow it means Cousins or Koufos having to defend Ryan Anderson all the way out at the free throw line.

If that's the lineup we trot out I'll be frustrated. The Rockets just shot 43 threes and hit on nearly 40% of them against the Nets. Ryno put up 19 points. It's a bad matchup we can see coming. It was like the Raptor game at home (won on that official review) where Joerger started Lawson and Collison against Lowry and DeRozan. DeRozan ended up having an off game overall but early on he was just too big for our PGs to handle forcing an early move.

This is one thing I don't understand. I get sticking with one lineup to see if it will gel by why experiment against with a new lineup when playing a team that is so well set up to exploit it?

Why not make a lineup change that gives the Kings a better chance against that night's opponent?

If we see Lawson and Collison starting at the guard spots and Cousins and Koufos as the bigs against the Rockets it could be an awful 1st quarter. Temple should start the game guarding Harden. The team should put Cousins at center and someone more mobile (Tolliver? Cauley-Stein? Casspi with Barnes or Gay at SF?) at the four spot.

I do feel like an already struggling team is too often shooting itself in the foot with poor matchups to start the game. Instead of having to change to a lineup that claws its way back into a game after halftime, why not start with that scrappy group to begin games?

 

[funkykingston]

I agree with most of what you wrote except saying Tolliver is useless. Tolliver plays good defense, rebounds OK and moves the ball. Last night i saw at least 4 passes he made to set up team mates that were great. If it was me I would start Tolliver and Temple as they defend and are great glue guys. Casspi should play heavy minutes as the 6th/7th man with Lawson. As for Koufos he does win most of the jump balls and bangs with the best of them.

Kosta is very valuable for matching up against Bigs who like to get physical. With Kosta on the floor Boogie soaks up less physical abuse. This physical abuse is accumulative and will lead to Boogie missing games.

Joerger's job is not that easy since there is not really clear cut starters on the Kings except for Boogie and Rudy. While I have my opinion on who should start along with the rest of you Fans I'm not 100% sure my preferred starters play better than Joergers

What I am sure about is that the style of offensive play needs more passing and misdirection. Watching Boogie and Rudy battle the teeth of the defense is fine at times but throw a couple of passes and a fake or two gets the defenders off balance and makes their job easier. The Kings need to keep the defenses guessing on what will happen each time down the floor.

On the defensive side of the ball I am seeing more and more screens where the other teams player setting the screen will move and grab a defender to free up a jump shooter. This has been happening over and over and the Refs don't seem to call it as illegal. The Warriors do it constantly so maybe grabbing defenders while you move during a screen is part of the "new wave" of basketball. You know shoot a lot of threes and set a bunch of illegal screens

I would like to see Tolliver get the start against Houston, especially if Rudy is out.

Collison
Temple
Casspi
Tolliver
Cousins

seems like the best starting five against the Rockets. But I have a feeling we'll see:

Lawson
Collison
Casspi (or Gay if healthy)
Cousins
Koufos

 

[sactownfan]

But it's not like Joerger is an idiot or like he doesn't have a clue, what he is doing with the lineups.

Here's the thing... Dave came out after many terrible starts and losses in a row...and said what had become painfully obvious to everyone for awhile... "HE WAS DONE WITH THE GOING BIG LINEUP" .... awesome everyone was happy that FINALLY... this guy got it and moved on.... HOWEVER.... next game wanna guess who started??? That's right Dave didn't get it...

This team has no choice but to go small... did u know that our most effective line up last year was Casspi, Gay, Cousins as our front court. This Coach responded to that with benchin Casspi for most of the first 20 games... great call coach!!!!

Which while we are on the topic now of lineups and the coach "not getting it"
AFFALO..... did it really need to take over 20 games to pull the plug on him as the starting SG? 20 games of terrible play, chemistry and losing?

He did finally make a change but it's alarming how long it takes for this coach to see the obvious.

-He took too long to un bench Casspi
-he took too long to bench Lawson for D.C.
-he took too long to get Affalo off the floor
-he took too long to play Matt less mins

-HE CONTINUES to take too long to play our best #1 defensive SG (because Dave is supposed to be big on defense) and our #2 best 3pt shooter... Temple... he should be starting it's obvious and now unacceptable

-HE CONTINUES to take too long to play small ball... this teams best line ups. Don't involve Cousins and Koufos together. It's proven statistically and eye test wise. It's BEEN obvious and is now unacceptable.
I'm not the biggest fan of small ball but with WCS being what he is. We need to play to our strengths. Koufos played great off the bench that one game we won and had a great start without him. Then we went right back to the same crap.



This coach seems to be more about being stubborn and sending messages that HES in control then doing what's right and winning games.

Honestly I'm strarting to think he only knows 1 system and is incapable of doing more than 1 trick so we will continue to lose because our coach can't himself understand the players or game enough to do something different.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Here's the thing... Dave came out after many terrible starts and losses in a row...and said what had become painfully obvious to everyone for awhile... "HE WAS DONE WITH THE GOING BIG LINEUP" .... awesome everyone was happy that FINALLY... this guy got it and moved on.... HOWEVER.... next game wanna guess who started??? That's right Dave didn't get it...

This team has no choice but to go small... did u know that our most effective line up last year was Casspi, Gay, Cousins as our front court. This Coach responded to that with benchin Casspi for most of the first 20 games... great call coach!!!!

Which while we are on the topic now of lineups and the coach "not getting it"
AFFALO..... did it really need to take over 20 games to pull the plug on him as the starting SG? 20 games of terrible play, chemistry and losing?

He did finally make a change but it's alarming how long it takes for this coach to see the obvious.

-He took too long to un bench Casspi
-he took too long to bench Lawson for D.C.
-he took too long to get Affalo off the floor
-he took too long to play Matt less mins

-HE CONTINUES to take too long to play our best #1 defensive SG (because Dave is supposed to be big on defense) and our #2 best 3pt shooter... Temple... he should be starting it's obvious and now unacceptable

-HE CONTINUES to take too long to play small ball... this teams best line ups. Don't involve Cousins and Koufos together. It's proven statistically and eye test wise. It's BEEN obvious and is now unacceptable.
I'm not the biggest fan of small ball but with WCS being what he is. We need to play to our strengths. Koufos played great off the bench that one game we won and had a great start without him. Then we went right back to the same crap.



This coach seems to be more about being stubborn and sending messages that HES in control then doing what's right and winning games.

Honestly I'm strarting to think he only knows 1 system and is incapable of doing more than 1 trick so we will continue to lose because our coach can't himself understand the players or game enough to do something different.

I think everyone paying attention to what Joerger did in Memphis knows, that he is able to adapt to his player personell and able to implement multiple systems.
Temple is playing major minutes. It's not like Joerger is burying him at the end of the bench. He trusts Temple more than any SG on the roster, hence why Temple is usually closing games, which is much more important than who actually starts. I expect Temples minutes to go up in the future, but we invested big money in Afflalo. We need to make it work with him or cut costs early.

There are also valid explanations for Casspis situation under Joerger. Matt Barnes is the one guy, who Joerger wanted to help him to establish a culture. Of course he will lean towards his favourite in the beginning.

And from the many teams playing small in this league, there are only a few, who actually start small. AD usually starts at Pf. KAT usually starts at PF. Boston plays two bigs.....
Is this the right thing to do? Questionable, because a smaller, more skilled player is actually the better fit next to Cousins.
But our roster isn't loaded with versatile wings like Detroit's for example.

From my point of view you are making too much out of minor issues and I don't think you are on the right track, when you assume, that Joerger is simply "not getting it". Like in most cases there are many ways to skin a cat and Joerger will most likely have solid reasons for his rotations. But like I said, I understand where you are coming from.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I agree with most of what you wrote except saying Tolliver is useless. Tolliver plays good defense, rebounds OK and moves the ball. Last night i saw at least 4 passes he made to set up team mates that were great. If it was me I would start Tolliver and Temple as they defend and are great glue guys. Casspi should play heavy minutes as the 6th/7th man with Lawson. As for Koufos he does win most of the jump balls and bangs with the best of them.

Kosta is very valuable for matching up against Bigs who like to get physical. With Kosta on the floor Boogie soaks up less physical abuse. This physical abuse is accumulative and will lead to Boogie missing games.

Joerger's job is not that easy since there is not really clear cut starters on the Kings except for Boogie and Rudy. While I have my opinion on who should start along with the rest of you Fans I'm not 100% sure my preferred starters play better than Joergers

What I am sure about is that the style of offensive play needs more passing and misdirection. Watching Boogie and Rudy battle the teeth of the defense is fine at times but throw a couple of passes and a fake or two gets the defenders off balance and makes their job easier. The Kings need to keep the defenses guessing on what will happen each time down the floor.

On the defensive side of the ball I am seeing more and more screens where the other teams player setting the screen will move and grab a defender to free up a jump shooter. This has been happening over and over and the Refs don't seem to call it as illegal. The Warriors do it constantly so maybe grabbing defenders while you move during a screen is part of the "new wave" of basketball. You know shoot a lot of threes and set a bunch of illegal screens

Maybe I'm wrong when it comes to Tolliver. He was a deep bencher and the only thing I know about him, is that he can get hot from 3, which is basically the only facet of his game I ever noticed. Yes he had a few nice passes in the last game, but his shot was still off. We'll see. Maybe we get something out of him over the season. I hope so.